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-   -   Suing IP addresses being challenged. (https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=998882)

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17727792)
What are house prices like there?

And try not to start your reply with something about trolling as it's turning into a constant flow of telling Damian he lives in a hovel but I have no idea how Czech compares to see whether you are correct or not.

I would say houses cost 75% of what they cost in the UK. Excluding the ridiculous costs of London. Modern 4 bedroom detached house with garden outside Brno, $200k (130k GBP)

Also the cost of living is lower here, so that's a benefit. Especially if your income is based on UK and US earnings. :thumbsup

The reason we come here isn't the cost of housing or living. The reason is clear from our site. There's a far higher % of good looking girls here. My UK shot sets stop in the 400s, my CZ shot sets go into the 2400s. Plus the stuff not numbered, like exclusive for magazines or a few for websites. Plus the "Readers Wives" sets we shot here. Doesn't take a marketing genius to work out why we came here.

seeandsee 11-25-2010 12:53 PM

what if hipoteticly some one break onto my computer (even remote access spyware) and do all the shit, will i go to jail jesus...

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeandsee (Post 17728105)
what if hipoteticly some one break onto my computer (even remote access spyware) and do all the shit, will i go to jail jesus...

Ask Steve how that works. What Damian is bitching about is that they are harassing people with no intent to actually sue. It costs a shitload of money, more than Steve has, to sue everyone and prove their case. They want the easy money of people agreeing to settle, not court battles.

bjlover 11-25-2010 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17728039)
The reason we come here isn't the cost of housing or living.

The reason you live in eastern europe is because you can't afford to live any where else

The reason Damian J lives in a one bedroom rented flat is because he can't afford to live anywhere else.

The reason you two don't get on is because you are so similar

Both broke, both think everyone else can't see it, both have no lives and spend all your lives on gfy posting retarded crap and believing your own bullshit

:2 cents:

bjlover 11-25-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeandsee (Post 17728105)
what if hipoteticly some one break onto my computer (even remote access spyware) and do all the shit, will i go to jail jesus...

Lets hope so :2 cents:

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 01:15 PM

This deserves it's own thread but here.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...32478790.shtml

One lawyer was banned for 6 months for this kind of approach.

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjlover (Post 17728131)
The reason you live in eastern europe is because you can't afford to live any where else

The reason Damian J lives in a one bedroom rented flat is because he can't afford to live anywhere else.

The reason you two don't get on is because you are so similar

Both broke, both think everyone else can't see it, both have no lives and spend all your lives on gfy posting retarded crap and believing your own bullshit

:2 cents:

And with no money we funded shooting 2.000 sets, a house here, had a staff of 8, had a 3,500 sq ft studio and I retired. You're also a genius I can see. :1orglaugh

I post on GFY for something to do. Why do you post here?

bjlover 11-25-2010 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17728254)
And with no money we funded shooting 2.000 sets, a house here, had a staff of 8, had a 3,500 sq ft studio and I retired. You're also a genius I can see. :1orglaugh

I post on GFY for something to do. Why do you post here?

wasnt you begging here a few years ago because you didn't even have a bank account? when your wife had an accident, you was asking people to pay you by epassporte because you didnt even have a bank account?

so your a great business man, with 8 staff, 3,500 studio, retired, loads of money.


but you dont even have a bank account

you should stop believing your own bullshit. Thats why you are 60, been in porn for 30 years, living in eastern europe and have no life off gfy

:error

seriously, you are a joke and your best mate Damian J is the same. Thats why you dont like each other so much. You are so alike

:2 cents:

bjlover 11-25-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17728254)

I post on GFY for something to do.

I feel sorry for you. :(

Wow what a sad waste of a life :2 cents:

Roald 11-25-2010 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17727966)
How do people book you for magic via a page that doesn't work? I wish I had found that link earlier and done a screen grab.

Maybe he looked up your magic join link source code and got bookings that way?

ottopottomouse 11-25-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham (Post 17728039)
The reason we come here isn't the cost of housing or living. The reason is clear from our site. There's a far higher % of good looking girls here.

Agree with that. Stick me one or two in the post... :thumbsup


Yes prices in London are a bit mental but you might be a bit behind on the rest of current UK prices though. £130K seems to be the market value of something like Damian's hovel in Brighton.

Rochard 11-25-2010 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17728015)
Dude, you are pulling this shit out of your ass. No, you are not responsible for it in the same way. For starters, these people are being sued for SHARING files, nobody is getting sued for downloading them.

You can not sue someone and win for doing something without proving that they actually did it. This is why NOBODY has been found guilty yet.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20060727/1131227.shtml

Your wrong. People are being sued by the music industry because they downloaded music illegally from a copy filing site, which was traced back to them using their IP. Most of them just settled out of court.

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...sharing-music/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96797,00.html

This article claims they've sued twenty-six thousand people for uploading, downloading, and otherwise sharing music online:
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...goes_to_court/
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/274415

I understand what your saying. If you trace something back to my IP address it doesn't mean that I physically did something - it means someone at my house did. But to sue someone, you don't have fucking prove anything. Your suing someone, not proving innocence or guilt. Just like a photo traffic ticket - They trace the car to owner via the license plate, and thus send the ticket to the owner of the car.

Sorry, the music industry is going after people. The movie industry is going to start to. Fuck, the gaming industry is pissed off that people can download their game before it hits store shelves. And the porn industry will start suing people too.

gideongallery 11-25-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 17727366)
Plaintiff won ? the verdict has been retried and a similar verdict reached with some modification in the jury's award. Maybe, an appeal of the latest verdict ...


This is in the US Courts and is a well known and argued case from moral viewpoint. It is important to note a few things;
1.) Her defense was that she was not the person using the IP ? she lost on that one.

2.)"[T]hat's a consequence of Congress providing statutory damages that range from $200 (for an "innocent infringer") to $150,000 per infringement. ..." She was accused of file sharing so she (her IP) was greater than an "innocent infringer."

3.) Her activities were not for some commercial gain (for some profit).

The traffic camera ticket issue cited above is still in motion;

Note the name in the URL, civil_district_court_judge_rem i.e., in rem = against property (a vehicle in this case) but the Courts can identify the vehicle's owner so the owner is fined and the vehicle is not "arrested (read seized)." I am not arguing this as right or wrong and in some cases, I think this is excessive or even possibly unconstitutional.

The most important statement in all of this is;

"[T]hat's a consequence of Congress providing statutory damages that range from $200 (for an "innocent infringer") to $150,000 per infringement. ..."

Users that are downloading for their own personal use and not "file sharing" might end up with a judgment of $200 (for an "innocent infringer",) per title proven as downloaded.

Since for about $29.95 they could have had legal access and the right to download, if I were the "Emperor," I would treble the damages to 89.85 per claimant. Remember, this is for an "innocent infringer."

read the case moron

no wireless router, modem connected directly to the pc, mac address of the machine identified.

They did way more than just say ip address = proof.

btw this case is all about knocking down bogus precedent, if it was about getting jamie off they would have made all their arguements at one time, they are doing it one at a time, getting a new trial, going thru the motions (including making arguements that would have only worked in the first trial) so that they can clearly prove precedent x is responsible for overturning the conviction.

Each and every time this get retried, the RIAA has to jump thru even more hoops to get the conviction, spending more and more money each time.

make available gone because of this case

liablity for the automatic indexing of the my music folder

all the extra hoops that you now have to jump thru to prove liablity.

Rochard 11-25-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 17728321)
read the case moron

no wireless router, modem connected directly to the pc, mac address of the machine identified.

They did way more than just say ip address = proof.

btw this case is all about knocking down bogus precedent, if it was about getting jamie off they would have made all their arguements at one time, they are doing it one at a time, getting a new trial, going thru the motions (including making arguements that would have only worked in the first trial) so that they can clearly prove precedent x is responsible for overturning the conviction.

Each and every time this get retried, the RIAA has to jump thru even more hoops to get the conviction, spending more and more money each time.

make available gone because of this case

liablity for the automatic indexing of the my music folder

all the extra hoops that you now have to jump thru to prove liablity.

What everyone seems to mis-understand is that the IP adress is only a portion of the proof.

I just read that some forty thousand lawsuits were filed, and all but two settled out of court. First off, what does this tell you? Exactly - 99.9% of those forty-thousand were guilty as sin and knew it. But in the case someone does take it to court, they can reference your IP address against a dozen other things, starting with a database of people who had accounts with one of the illegal filing sharing services, or something else.

Half man, Half Amazing 11-25-2010 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan (Post 17723946)
Rochard,

If you lend your car to a friend and he speeds and you get a ticket, do you have to pay the fine?

If your car is stolen and they speed then return it to you and you get a ticket, do you have to pay the fine? Will you if it is hard to prove it was stolen from you for a few hours?

Honest questions here. Do not know how it works in us law.

If you caught a person speeding time and time again would they eventually lose their drivers license?

Me thinks so.

Repeat offenders should be punished. Manwich rewards them.

kristin 11-25-2010 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 17727798)
Your the biggest fucking idiot on this board. Of course you can sue based on IP address. An IP is clearly proof - it says "someone from this location at this date at this time hit this server and illegally downloaded this content".

What about colleges that all have the same IP addy?

Tjeezers 11-25-2010 03:15 PM

lot of people post in threads like this to boost their own ego`s, acting like the Godfathers of porn. Yet, non of them I read have actually impressed me with something I dont know, or they never did anything that really amazed me. Of course, when people post here to boost their ego, they dont give a shit what others think, they like to think about what they said when reading it back. Sad sad sad... Wake up people, no one gives a shit what you think or achieved.

NO one cares about what you fight against, if you where almost RIP or not,, no one needs to know you can get Jumbo Loans cause your so fucking good, no one cares about your fucking coin collection that was lost for so many years.

I am here cause i need to wait for uploading, and hope to read one day something that would change my fucking day. Until now i am inspired to learn how to smoke crack and how to avoid law suites... Shame on u all ya bitches and happy thanks giving btw

Agent 488 11-25-2010 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjeezers (Post 17728384)
lot of people post in threads like this to boost their own ego`s, acting like the Godfathers of porn. Yet, non of them I read have actually impressed me with something I dont know, or they never did anything that really amazed me. Of course, when people post here to boost their ego, they dont give a shit what others think, they like to think about what they said when reading it back. Sad sad sad... Wake up people, no one gives a shit what you think or achieved.

NO one cares about what you fight against, if you where almost RIP or not,, no one needs to know you can get Jumbo Loans cause your so fucking good, no one cares about your fucking coin collection that was lost for so many years.

I am here cause i need to wait for uploading, and hope to read one day something that would change my fucking day. Until now i am inspired to learn how to smoke crack and how to avoid law suites... Shame on u all ya bitches and happy thanks giving btw

wrong thread.

borked 11-25-2010 03:20 PM

this frikken car analogy is bullshit - to drive a car you need a license. To use an internet connection you need, well simply a computer, whether it's your own paid access or your moms/dads, your grandmas, your neighbours, your work, doesn't matter.

I'm asking myself, why has no university ever been sued to settle out of court? After all, most universities, like homes distribute private IPs and sit behind a single (or a hundred) external IPs. They are responsible for that internet IP, so same right? But no Universites (or works) are targeted.

Stop this frikken car analogy cos it's bullshit. An IP is not a pirate. The person downloading and sharing the content is a pirate.

While the law still allows laywers to do what they please, it will still be a revenue source for some. The courts in the UK will decide this fate pretty much once and for all for lawyers in March. It will be interesting to say the least.

Carry on with your revenue streams behind the guise of IP identification == pirate and for each stupid comment to that end there will be others to state otherwise.

Why the fuck does it mean that all that disagree with this method of bullying (esp. the adult twist) is tantamount to a pirate - fuck off. I am actively creating stuff to detect piracy and I am solid with Damian on this as the others are. He is just more verbose on the boards about it. So I'm a pirate too? (wrong thread to be making this point I know, but the other thread disappeared).

Sending these letters to holders of internet access clients is bullshit and the only ones agreeing with this are the ones seeing $ signs as a revenue stream (as was mentioned int he OP article). Hopefully, the justice system will see the same and put an end to it (in the UK at least).

So stop the frikken car analogy because a car and a computer are not the same.

On another note, (no source) one of the big major telcoms in France, Free have refused to send out letters to "copyright infringers" based on the recently implemented HADOPI law - this is a major telcom going directly against a govt implemented law for this EXACT reason. They are refusing to issue warnings (3 warnings and internet cut off) to their clients based on IP surveillance.

And fucking good on them.

Fight theft at the source, not from the low hanging fruit (as was given as analogy in another thread).

borked 11-25-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin (Post 17728369)
What about colleges that all have the same IP addy?

hehe, my post took so long to write, you beat me to it :thumbsup

borked 11-25-2010 03:28 PM

In any case, if you want to seed torrents from the EU, just make sure the source of the content come from the US.

Because, low and behold copyright is international and so you should be targeted, but guess what, it's too hard to get addresses from IPs from a non-national company (well, as easy just more expensive), - the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Agent 488 11-25-2010 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin (Post 17728369)
What about colleges that all have the same IP addy?

i wonder the same thing, but ip location is used to secure cp prosecutions every day.

borked 11-25-2010 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 17728416)
ip location is used to secure cp prosecutions every day.

Yes, but that is just used to corroborate something when applied with more pertinent evidence. 1+2+3+4+5=15, not 5=15

5=15 is the entire case in all these letters...

Agent 488 11-25-2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked (Post 17728419)
Yes, but that is just used to corroborate something when applied with more pertinent evidence. 1+2+3+4+5=15, not 5=15

5=15 is the entire case in all these letters...

i am poor at math. : ( just throwing that out there.

marlboroack 11-25-2010 03:40 PM

lol
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexentertain_mike (Post 17723283)
Love Mama jokes too!

"Yo mama so fat she licks other peoples fingers at kentucky fried chicken"

Yo mamma so fat, she played pool with the planets:pimp

borked 11-25-2010 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 17728427)
i am poor at math. : ( just throwing that out there.

Well, at least it's a valid argument for staying in the other camp. You are forgiven (so long as I never meet you in a jury that presides on this*)


(*civil case I know never happen.)

brandonstills 11-25-2010 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked (Post 17725850)
Paul, adding live content, live chat, forums etc isn't what will survive above tubes - it's an idea granted, but I don't agree.

When there are sites delivering free HD content of 30+ minute clips, it's an impossible struggle to force a porn surfer to get out his credit card for something similar.

There are comments on mainstram boards that have been posted here that show that naive (ie non-gfy crowd) porn surfers believe these tubes are the studios releasing their content for free. That's a tough battle.

I didn't see how tgps unfolded as I wasn't in adult then, but I saw how blogs then tubes unfolded into the adult world and how tubes then seized that advantage to go present bittorrent content for free to all.

In your analogy of hamburgers - if you are offering a Big Mac with bacon and hot sauce and fries and a large cola for xx$ and just next door I can get a regular beefburger for free, same meat, same tase, no frills.... When I'm hungry, I know where I'll go.

This is the problem vast majority of the problem. It sucks but unfortunately those who chose the anti-piracy route are fighting an uphill battle. Things are stacked against you. The only solution available is to innovate and provide better value to potential customers. Tube sites are currently doing that.

If you want to compete, focus on higher quality content, more relevant content, and make the user experience easier for them. If you provide something tube sites don't then you will get some customers. If you don't then why would you expect otherwise?

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjlover (Post 17728277)
wasnt you begging here a few years ago because you didn't even have a bank account? when your wife had an accident, you was asking people to pay you by epassporte because you didnt even have a bank account?

so your a great business man, with 8 staff, 3,500 studio, retired, loads of money.

but you dont even have a bank account

you should stop believing your own bullshit. Thats why you are 60, been in porn for 30 years, living in eastern europe and have no life off gfy

We have and had a bank account. You obviously never read the threads properly. When Eva had her accident she was in a coma for 10 day. It was then that I found out she was the one with the power to take money out of the bank to pay ppeople like our staff, studio rent, servers, etc.

So I asked on the boards if anyone wanted to buy content I was open to any deal. Wasn't begging for charity.

Stop and read for a couple of minutes to why I live here.

In our market, the magazines, every once in a while a girl like Jana Cova turns up. These girls are a goldmine for a shooter like us. Each single set of a girl like this is easily worth $3,000. Without second rights, EU, AU and Japan sales. Shoot 10 and do the maths. $30,000 from the initial sales in the US and UK.

Driving back and forth to Czech we risk someone else getting that great girls and the $30,000 for 5 days work. Living here we don't need to rely on agents, we find our own girls before the agents get them.

In my last 10 years in England 4 girls turned up of that level. Of my last 10 years shooting here 2 a year turned up. Do the maths. Add all the other girls who turn up. Even on a good casting in Prague we could shoot 10 Readers Wives" sets that make $400 each. $4,000 from a casting. :thumbsup

Plus I have a Czech wife and her family. My Mother and Brother lived in the US. I have a daughter who I would prefer that she gets educated here and learns the values they have here in Czech. They're more polite and less aggressive than the UK. And they both want to live here. I have a family so have to consider their wishes.

Plus I actually like living here. Less crime, less aggravation, easier pace of life, people are friendlier and more polite. I like living here and to be honest don't want to come back to the UK except to visit.

But you can think what you like.

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald (Post 17728282)
Maybe he looked up your magic join link source code and got bookings that way?

He is a magician, so that would be logical. :1orglaugh

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse (Post 17728291)
Yes prices in London are a bit mental but you might be a bit behind on the rest of current UK prices though. £130K seems to be the market value of something like Damian's hovel in Brighton.

Shit no wonder I'm happier here.

I did originally think he was buying the flat. Then found out via another poster on B&B that he only rented. Shocked me as I thought he could afford more. Obviously I was wrong.

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 17728299)
Your wrong. People are being sued by the music industry because they downloaded music illegally from a copy filing site, which was traced back to them using their IP. Most of them just settled out of court.

http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/1...sharing-music/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96797,00.html

This article claims they've sued twenty-six thousand people for uploading, downloading, and otherwise sharing music online:
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d...goes_to_court/
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/274415

I understand what your saying. If you trace something back to my IP address it doesn't mean that I physically did something - it means someone at my house did. But to sue someone, you don't have fucking prove anything. Your suing someone, not proving innocence or guilt. Just like a photo traffic ticket - They trace the car to owner via the license plate, and thus send the ticket to the owner of the car.

Sorry, the music industry is going after people. The movie industry is going to start to. Fuck, the gaming industry is pissed off that people can download their game before it hits store shelves. And the porn industry will start suing people too.

I'm sure someone has corrected you already but downloading music will not make anyone get sued just like looking at an illegally shared image right here on GFY. If someone were so stupid to sue someone simply for downloading they would be laughed out of court.

The media doesn't report this shit right but as you can see from your article the 12 year old used Kazaa. By default, when you download a song it goes in a folder that lets others download it from you. They are not suing people for simply downloading just like they can't sue you for listening to the same song on a stolen YouTube video.

Paul Markham 11-25-2010 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488 (Post 17728416)
i wonder the same thing, but ip location is used to secure cp prosecutions every day.

I think the IP address is used to secure a search warrant. The evidence is secured in the search. CP is criminal. Copyright is civil. Different rules and the police get involved in crimes like CP.

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 04:00 PM

By the way Rochard, yes you can sue anyone you want in the USA. Want to know what you can't do though? Sue EVERYONE with just an IP address and shit for proof and get away with it for long. If you don't think they will clamp down on spamming lawsuit threats you are crazy. Also, the comments Steve has made here are enough to get him and his lawyer in a world of hurt. I'm still in schock that he had the balls to post details of his blame and shame campaign here, I assure you that a judge would not be pleased with it.

http://ask.metafilter.com/79838/Has-...nloading-music

borked 11-25-2010 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonstills (Post 17728436)
This is the problem vast majority of the problem. It sucks but unfortunately those who chose the anti-piracy route are fighting an uphill battle. Things are stacked against you. The only solution available is to innovate and provide better value to potential customers. Tube sites are currently doing that.

If you want to compete, focus on higher quality content, more relevant content, and make the user experience easier for them. If you provide something tube sites don't then you will get some customers. If you don't then why would you expect otherwise?

Why are those that chose the anti-piracy route fighting an uphill battle? All I can infer from that is you say "fuck it, my content is going to get pirated but so what - I'll ship out better content in the members area so they'll come back". That really is a losing battle if so. Stop your content from being pirated in the first place, then you take your content out of the equation. Images notwithstanding.

If, and this is a purely hypothetical if, the entire industry never allowed downloadable videos. Where would the illegal tubes be?

This won't happen because of the same insecurity that exists - my competitor(s) allows downloads, so I have to. Maybe true. But the other side of the coin says - if my content is good, then I will only sell to people that only allow secured streams. Then your content becomes virtually valuable, since it isn't on the tubes. And who knows what that can bring - time (if given a chance) will only tell.

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 04:23 PM

One more thing on download only lawsuits.

This is in regards to noncommercial copyright infringement.

"There are four essential elements required to prove felony copyright infringement: (1) that a registered copyright exists, (2) that the defendant infringed by reproduction or distribution of the copyrighted work, (3) that the defendant acted willfully and (4) that the works infringed were at least 10 copies of one or more copyrighted works with a total value of $2,500 within a 180-day period. Willfulness continues to be a very illusive concept, but the statute provides no definition. Case law illustrates that certain type of evidence generally is relevant to prove that defendant’s conduct was willful. For example, that the defendant had legal notice that conduct similar to his was infringement or that he had actual notice that his conduct was illegal."

http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/copy-corner66.htm

will76 11-25-2010 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 17727779)
Generally speaking in the US if you get a ticket it means you speak directly to the police officer, and they check your ID.

If it's a photo ticket, you get the ticket in the mail. Again, at that point, you either pay the fine or show up in court and prove it wasn't you. Same thing with a parking ticket. If your friend drives your car into the city and gets a parking ticket, you get the ticket in the mail afterwards. Again, either pay the fine or prove it wasn't you - and good luck proving it wasn't you.

It's no different than with someone downloading content. Someone using a computer as this IP address that traces back to your house downloaded content illegally without paying for it, and someone is responsable - most likely the owner of the computer or maybe even the person who pays the cable connection.

It's just like finding drugs in your house. If the cops raid my house and find a stash of drugs and I can't tell them who it belongs to, they arrest the owner of your house.

Exactly, also like pulling someone over and there is drugs found in the car, the driver gets nailed with it almost all the time even if it was one of the passengers who hide it under the seat. The examples can go on and on. The ip going back to the owner is really no different. If it isn't the person who pays the internet bill then chances are it is someone in the house or that they know. At that point the guilty part will step up or be outed by the person being accused. If someone really didn't do it I would hope they would fight it and either turn in the person who did or defend themselves if they really weren't behind it.

I can guarantee you if someone hacked my connection and downloaded some videos I would fight it and win. 9 out of 10 times the guilty party either settles or ignores it because they know they were guilty. The people who respond back vigerously that they really didn't do it and that they will fight them or make them prove their case in court will probably never get sued.

Remember, these attorneys get paid on contingency and they are dealing with large volumes here. The time, resources and money it takes to drag one person to court and try to prove it they could have made 1000x more money from getting 100s of people to settle. Its a numbers game, they don't want to go to court any more than you do. Its like they are shooting at a flock of birds with a shot gun, not a pistol. So what if they miss a few its just too easy to point the shot gun up and pull the trigger and hit 100 than it is to take the time to aim a pistol and try to shoot them out of the sky one at a time.

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76 (Post 17728672)
Exactly, also like pulling someone over and there is drugs found in the car, the driver gets nailed with it almost all the time even if it was one of the passengers who hide it under the seat. The examples can go on and on. The ip going back to the owner is really no different. If it isn't the person who pays the internet bill then chances are it is someone in the house or that they know. At that point the guilty part will step up or be outed by the person being accused. If someone really didn't do it I would hope they would fight it and either turn in the person who did or defend themselves if they really weren't behind it.

I can guarantee you if someone hacked my connection and downloaded some videos I would fight it and win. 9 out of 10 times the guilty party either settles or ignores it because they know they were guilty. The people who respond back vigerously that they really didn't do it and that they will fight them or make them prove their case in court will probably never get sued.

Remember, these attorneys get paid on contingency and they are dealing with large volumes here. The time, resources and money it takes to drag one person to court and try to prove it they could have made 1000x more money from getting 100s of people to settle. Its a numbers game, they don't want to go to court any more than you do. Its like they are shooting at a flock of birds with a shot gun, not a pistol. So what if they miss a few its just too easy to point the shot gun up and pull the trigger and hit 100 than it is to take the time to aim a pistol and try to shoot them out of the sky one at a time.

Sigh.

1) There are specific laws in SOME states that make the owner of a car responsible, even if they weren't the ones driving.

2) Drugs in your house or car gets you charged with possession, not ownership. There is no similar law for owning an IP used to download copyrighted material as far as I know.

3) You are correct in that the people shooting the shotgun don't want to go to court. The reason for this is that it is a losing proposition since they would then be forced to prove something that is nearly impossible to prove. The entire point that DamianJ made is that when you take this shotgun approach innocent people are guaranteed to be involved. The courts do not like this kind of blanket bullshit and they are already challenging it in courts outside of the USA. I linked to an article that shows someone was barred from practicing law for 6 months for similar bullshit. Steve has publicly stated that this is all about blame and shame, he wants them to pay or face exposure. How do you think THAT would go over in a court of law if someone brought it up? If you think it will gain him any sympathy from the legal system you are crazy.

gideongallery 11-25-2010 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17728455)
I'm sure someone has corrected you already but downloading music will not make anyone get sued just like looking at an illegally shared image right here on GFY. If someone were so stupid to sue someone simply for downloading they would be laughed out of court.

The media doesn't report this shit right but as you can see from your article the 12 year old used Kazaa. By default, when you download a song it goes in a folder that lets others download it from you. They are not suing people for simply downloading just like they can't sue you for listening to the same song on a stolen YouTube video.

actually there are, because the evidence collect doesn't provide proof of any other download but the one that was committed under the authority of the record company, they infer the other downloads (basically get them convicted of the download, and pump the damages based on the infered losses)

btw that one of the main reasons i know this is a precedent destroying case, and not a get the girl off case, they would have addressed this abuse a long time ago if they wanted this issue settled.

gideongallery 11-25-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktrader23 (Post 17728499)
One more thing on download only lawsuits.

This is in regards to noncommercial copyright infringement.

"There are four essential elements required to prove felony copyright infringement: (1) that a registered copyright exists, (2) that the defendant infringed by reproduction or distribution of the copyrighted work, (3) that the defendant acted willfully and (4) that the works infringed were at least 10 copies of one or more copyrighted works with a total value of $2,500 within a 180-day period. Willfulness continues to be a very illusive concept, but the statute provides no definition. Case law illustrates that certain type of evidence generally is relevant to prove that defendant?s conduct was willful. For example, that the defendant had legal notice that conduct similar to his was infringement or that he had actual notice that his conduct was illegal."

http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/copy-corner66.htm

your mixing felony copyright infringement which is the criminal statutes and the civil liablities.

you might want to get a better lawyer, none of these lawsuits are criminal procecution, that section was designed for the guys making and selling counterfeit copies of dvd on the street corner.

stocktrader23 11-25-2010 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gideongallery (Post 17728701)
actually there are, because the evidence collect doesn't provide proof of any other download but the one that was committed under the authority of the record company, they infer the other downloads (basically get them convicted of the download, and pump the damages based on the infered losses)

btw that one of the main reasons i know this is a precedent destroying case, and not a get the girl off case, they would have addressed this abuse a long time ago if they wanted this issue settled.

Please clarify the first sentence. There are what?


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