nice. great post.

First, I'd like to qualify my comments... I am the lead developer for the most highly trafficked dating site in the US (HitWise). I'm omitting the name as I use this board outside of work and my opinions are my own and should not reflect on my employer. Thank you for respecting the anonymity :)

That being said, this post has some misinformation that I'd like to set straight...

This has nothing to do with using an API effectively. This is based on your own opinion about a specific application of API integration... As you'll read in my comments I believe you have a skewed perspective as to what an API is and isn't. I can't speak for smaller companies but when you're speaking of 10+ figure companies believe me when I tell you they know what they're doing. They've spent hundreds of thousands optimizing their API for what works best for their registration path and their traffic. Keep in mind that some methods have to be put in place to avoid spamming and fraud. Our company staffs an entire fraud department that works 24 / 7 to help eliminate spam accounts. We remove anywhere from thousands to tens of thousands of accounts per day.


This is a laughable statement. Dating sites pay on lead acquisition, not a sale. A half completed account does absolutely nothing for the dating site and is virtually worthless. You are being paid out $5+ per free signup, they don't even have to convert! Here, you're complaining that you can't mass spam out one person's information to as many dating sites as you'd like. This is called junk traffic. The likelihood of one person signing up to any of the sites is almost nil. The method you're trying to use is considered spam and frowned upon in the mainstream dating industry.

Generally when I signup at a site I type in my chosen username and password to sign in... That's just a part of registering on any site. Not to mention the fact that you can actually post a user's info (you know it since you created it in your API) to any dating site in the world and auto login... you just need to know how. You can post anyone to any login page with a post body... if you know the login page and the account info, that's all you need.

Not even close... It's not even necessary, you don't need it. Just go to the site, look at the login form, learn the var names and post url, and create your own method. It's easy.

This yahoo check won't actually tell you if this is the case. Just try signing up for an account and don't signup anywhere, you'll still get spam. A more accurate method is to setup a catch all account on a domain you control. Register with a name of [email protected] and you'll be able to see who sends email to that account specifically.

I'm not sure what you read/heard but it's completely wrong. The highest period of conversions is within the first 96 hours. After that period the likelihood of a conversion drops off significantly, drastically...

This is absolutely one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Why would a dating site want to pay you out for a member they already have? A user that could possibly already be paying for an account... If you are using an API to send a user's info to multiple dating sites then they most likely don't know what sites you're even signing them up for until after you've already tried posting their account info to all the sites.

You aren't sending a signup you are sending a current user... no, you shouldn't be paid out on this. You're just being greedy.

When used CORRECTLY an API post is vastly superior to a click on a banner. A click on a banner is nothing more than a click. An API post assures they've signed up for an account before they ever leave your site.

I think the main problem here is your view of what an API is and what it should or should not do. An API is a tool (in the dating site example) used to customize the signup process so that a user never has to leave your site and so you can design that signup process in whatever way works best for your users. Everyone has different traffic with different target niches. This allows you to tailer that experience to maximize your lead potential. Rather than just sending them off to some dating site and hoping for a conversion...

An API is NOT a tool to be used for spamming of account information to as many dating sites as possible. That's not what it's therefor and this is generally seen as a bad practice. Not only is it unfair to your end user (if you're not telling them before hand that they'll be signed up to multiple sites) but it's also not fair to your sponsors who are paying you for valuable leads. In the end you're just hurting your site's credibility and not at all leveraging the power of an API.

I'll post a follow up to this post as well with proper usage of an API and how to maximize your revenue by providing a better experience for your users and providing the highest quality leads to your sponsors.

Thank you for your education. I hope what you wrote is not filled with subliminal messages to make us become sheeple of nickname "Choker."

Some great information - Thanks

finaly someone said it in proper english language. chokers api business is wrong business

You should keep in mind that Choker posts members under a PPS code, and not does not get paid per lead, but rather a converted sale, so that is the perspective that his article is written from.

This is completely dependent on how the site functions and how aggressive it is. You cannot generalize on this point.

Joining a dating site, for many, is NOT an impulse buy like you make it out to be. Mainstream or adult. Our average conversion rate used to be approx. 8-10 days, after they got to explore the site and received multiple "latest match" emails and other email enticements to join. Sometimes, all it takes is for a free member to see a "match" sent to him that does it for him and he'll go upgrade; it doesn't mean this particular match that got him hot and bothered was sent in the first day.

However, you have other sites that I'd classify as "fake dating" who spam the member like mad with fake messages and notifications as soon as they join; these easily see the member convert right away or not at all.

You can run it several different ways... at that, this is only the surface of what API's can do. Companies with API's give them so YOU can promote them YOUR way... so we can make up amazing shit, so they don't have to.

The way Choker is running it, doesn't hurt anyone, doesn't fraud anyone and it isn't scamming anyone.

Effective Use of an API - Part I
 

In this post I'll focus on best practices for implementing multiple APIs to maximize your revenue potential by providing a better end user experience and supplying your sponsors with the highest quality leads. These methods are used by affiliates who do over $10k a day in new leads. Valuable leads that convert well for the sponsor and will help move you into second tier payouts. Why not work on your payout per lead while you're at it? Many payouts in the dating industry are based on your lead quality. That is, how well your leads convert into paid accounts...

First, some background. Most dating sites payout on lead acquisition rather than on a CPA basis. They may offer other payout methods as well but a non paid lead does have SOME value to a dating site as they are listed in the search results and could possibly cause another non paid member to become a member. This price is not set in stone and even if the site doesn't advertise it, there are probably multiple payout levels depending on how well you perform. Sending a ton of junk traffic is not the best method to make friends in mainstream. Mainstream dating is high profile business and many companies spend millions creating an effective brand in the marketplace. Associating that brand with a spammy site is NOT what they want you to do.

The benefits of using a Dating site API as an affiliate:

1. An API lets you completely tailor a signup process (or any other process) to fit your own traffic. Only you have complete control over your traffic and only you have the ability to experiment around with the process and optimize it to see what works best for your traffic.
   
   
2. Multiple API integration is fantastic but you should be directing any given user to one, MAYBE two sites. Never blanket sign up an account to a variety of sites... especially don't start signing up users over a period of time. This is spam and it's against the terms of service for many dating site APIs... it's a quick way to earn yourself a bad reputation and it's certainly not doing your user any good.
   
   
3. Detecting whether a user is already signed up with a sponsor. This is a fantastic tool and many dating sites have a separate API call just to check on a screen name or email address. During your signup process for your user you can check against all the dating sites you're implementing and see which ones that user hasn't signed up for yet. This is vastly superior to having them click a banner, for obvious reasons.
   
   
4. Learn which sites convert the best for each market segment for your traffic. API integration is all about optimizing your traffic. It's about quality over quantity. Using an API you act as a passthrough and so you have the capability to track your leads by any market segment you want. 18 - 22 year olds may convert best for you on site X followed by site Y... Send them to Site X first unless they already have an account in which case, send them to site Y. 18 - 25 year old gay traffic may convert better on site Z and 40+ traffic may do really well for you on Site A! Learn your traffic and optimize your registration paths to leverage the wealth of information you have available to you when using APIs.

In the next post I'll go into a working example of a very effective proven method for making APIs work for you and your sponsor.

Not true at all, read my posts... this is part of what I'm talking about in the misconception of what an API is actually for...

If you don't tell your user you are going to sign them up for 10 sites over the course of the next two weeks then yes, you are scamming a user. This is a gray area and could be argued but would YOU want that as an end user? Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally or ethically correct... There's a lot of gray area out there and you just need to be aware of the consequences of your actions all the way around.

Choker's business is traffic quantity... it shows in the post.

i am happy with my broken english there is something i can quote

3 -4 days, 8 - 10 days... none of these are "weeks" as originally stated by Choker. I've never heard of a dating site who's highest conversion rate by account creation time was in the "weeks" category. We don't send any fake emails or messages at all, and after 96 hours likelihood of signup definitely declines.

But I agree, it's impossible to generalize an entire industry... that was my original point, I just provided a contrasting real world example... I should have clarified :)

I kinda have a clue what an API is for, I have been using them for about 10+ years with Billing Companies, well before the first dating company had one.

The entire idea of an "Application Programming Interface" is to interface with it, how YOU need... with the limits set by the company offering it.

Choker isn't charging people, he is dishing out free with free or paid to free. MANY of us have been doing this for years with Video on Demand from pay and free sites... It works, it works without question, it doesn't cause complaints, and it makes your money grow.

You are a amusing guy. Misconception of what a API is actually for? So you became the internet police and can dictate what people should and should not use a API for?
If I can use a API to prepare my dinner I'll do it. The internet was not actually for porn but here we are.

You bring up some good points but your know it all atitude is anoying. Because something works one way for you doesn't mean it works the same for others. Mainstream dating is not like adult dating. I have posted what is working for me in the adult arena.

Bump for a good topic

Interesting thread. Thanks for taking the time to share something worth reading.

Excellent post.

interesting read

This was a very good read! I'm definitely gonna look more into API posting. I'm slightly disturbed by your avatar though Choker lol

Great Info, nice post!

Thanks everyone, I hope some people get something out of this. Of course this entire post is just from my expierience with API posting and I'm learning more everyday.

Getting a lot of icqs about the autologin/confirm url. When I first mention it most dating site owners think I'm using it to auto confirm the signups myself. This is not true at all, this would not benifit me in any way.
Here's a prime example of how the auto login/confirm url can be used effectively.

Ok lets say I have my own join form, surfer signs up hits the join button. At that time I API him to a dating site and get the auto confirm url back from thier API. I then simply redirect him to this autologin url. Net result is he signs up at my site and is created a account and logged into the target dating site. As a aggregater of signups this is great for me as I can change in real time what dating site I use without having to change out pages, banners, links etc.

Great post :)

:thumbsup:thumbsup

If there are any big players reading this thread I have EXCLUSIVE daily joins ranging from 15 cents to $2 each. Exclusive meaning they don't get api posted to anyone else. Contact me for details I've got about 5k joins a day right now.

I don't really see any dating sponsors "advertising" the fact that they have an API. Is this a "ask them and see" kind of thing?

Also, those that don't have an API... is it considered bad practice to submit manually using YOUR API to their form/field names?

Cool stuff

Nice Read Choker thanks.

Great post! It was very informative. Thanks for taking the time to share, it's appreciated!

Can you explain more about this?

Great article for newbies

This tale was most riveting, I learned a lot about API's that I couldn't find from a simple google search. REally.

excellent article. very well written and very informative. thank you very much and keep posting such nice articles.

Thanks for sharing, very informative.

many thanks for that

gfelife is da best
gfelife is da best[gfelife is da bestgfelife is da bestgfelife is da bestgfelife is da bestgfelife is da bestgfelife is da bestQUOTE=Choker;16851306]If you are not familiar with API or Application Programming Interface please read this Wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.orgfelife is da ...ming_interface

API postings are becoming very popular with dating sites both mainstream and adult.
In order to explain the benifits lets look at how I use API posting.

1. Surfer goes to one of my dating sites such as http://realfreedate.com/x2-dating.php (if you signup use a fake email addy)

2. Surfer inputs his information in the fields and hits the search button.

3. When the search button is hit I API post his information to a dating site that is paying me.

4. That dating site(buyer) creates a free dating account for that surfer and emails him a welcome email. In that welcome email is a url that when the member clicks logs him into his account at the buyers site and also acts to confirm his account there.

It's that simple. There are many advantages to this sort of posting.

1. The person generating this API posting has complete control of what dating site or sites he signs his members up to.

He can in real time switch from one dating sponsor to another without having to change out banners and links. We all have seen how a dating site can do great for many days then for some unknown reason thier ratios and conversions drop like a rock. That is normally due to inboxing problems on their end but we will talk about that later. API posting allows you to quicky switch from posting to one dating sponsor to another. It also allows you to make and test your own signup pages. Surfers see the same dating site pages all the time. Unique and different pages is the key to getting surfers to signup. Being able to make your own signup pages is a big advantage.

2. You can API post the same surfer to more than one dating site at a time therefore increasing your chances of him upgrading and you making a sale. This is the tricky part so be carefull. The average dating site member signs up for 3 to 4 dating sites. Use this figure as a guideline. Signing up a member to 20 different dating sites is going to fill his email box with so many welcome emails that he will know that YOU are the source of these unwanted emails. Using API you can post him to a dating site at time of signup at your site, then another one 24 hours later, another one 48 hours later etc. This is much better than signing him up at multiple dating sites at the time of join. And this is most important: DO NOT sign him up at dating sites that are known to sell this same information to spammers or other dating sites.

Now for the disadvantages.

The main disadvantage of API posting is problems with the dating sites you API post to themselves. I have yet to see a single dating site that has worked out all the bugs and learned how to fully monetize API postings.

Here's some common problems I have encountered

1. Some dating sites require too many fields.

Some dating sites require the "Description" and "Looking For" in order to post. This is simply not practicle for most sites that API post. My join form http://realfreedate.com/x2-dating.php has the required fields that is most common and practicle. In fact the sites that I do the best with only require the email address of the surfer, his IP address, and gender. The less the better. Some dating sites tend to think that the more information they gather at signup the higher the quality the lead is. This is true to a degree but requiring a lot of fields can mean 100 signups at 50% productivity versus 1000 signups at 25% productivity. The math is in favor of less fields.

2. Most dating sites do not return a auto login/confirm url upon posting.

When you API post a member to a dating site you REALLY need thier API to respond to yours with a url that acts as a autologin and a confirm url. And this url needs to always work, not just the first time. Members bookmark this url and can use it to login and you can advertise this url to them so they do login the dating site you are trying to promote.

Some dating sites send the login url and the user name and password in their email so the surfer has to copy and paste it to login. Surfers are lazy, hell I know I am. If its not one click them I'm not interested. Surfers EXPECT urls to log them in. Copy and pasting your user name was great back in 1999. How many times have you went to a site you had a account with and couldn't remember your user name and password and didn't feel like bothering with doing a password reset or reminder? Most people will just say to hell with it and go join another site.

HAVING A AUTO LOGIN URL/CONFIRM URL IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR IN MONETIZING API POSTINGS.

3. Many dating sites direct the surfer to the credit card page when they click the confirm url.

Aggressive is one thing but sending someone directly to a page where they have to pay right away in this situation is quite frankly the poster child of bad marketing. This tactic may work great if its a member that signed up for your site at your site, but for API postings its a sure fire way to lose a potential sale. A member API posted to you has never seen your site so why would they pay before they can see what your site has to offer? This is a no brainer yet many dating sites continue to do this. Use dating sites that send the new API posted member to thier complete profile or home page.

4. Some dating sites sell your members information.

Avoid these sites. While it may be in their TOS, you don't get paid for this and the end result is that the member you worked so hard to get will soon have his email address rendered unusable due to the large amounts of spam. It's real easy to find out what dating sites do this, simply make a yahoo email address and signup as a free member and check daily for spam.

5. Some dating sites are not proactive in getting your members to confirm.

Use dating sites that send reminder emails to members that have not confirmed at least once a week. Many send 1 or 2 reminder emails then stop sending. I recently attended a google conferance where it was stated that the average dating site member will take 2 to 3 weeks to decide what dating sites to join after finding them. Common sense tells us that if this is the case then it probably takes them another 2 to 3 weeks to upgrade once they have joined a dating site. API post to dating sites that are agressive.

6. Most dating sites do not allow the same email address twice.

Most dating sites will not allow someone to signup with the same email address more than one time. Many people may have created a account 3 years ago at a site and forgot all about it. Try to use dating sites that allow them to make a second account with that email addy so you can get paid if they upgrade. Helping a affiliate from 3 years ago is not my idea of good business. If you send the signup YOU should get paid for it.

Last but not least cover your ass. Put in your TOS that you can and will sell and share the members info with third parties.

I even have a checkbox at the bottom where members can opt out of this.

While API posts are not as high quality as a click on a banner, the sheer quantity has a big advantage. Look for other programs that accept API posting besides dating sites. The market is wide open. Thank you Choker[/QUOTE]

Thanks this post was very helpful to understand API concept

Highly valuable information....carry on please.....

My gratitude for the posting about API.....it will be quite helpful...

Most dating sites will not allow someone to signup with the same email address more than one time.Very right.