My experience with Pussycash and Imlive...
 

Ok so I started sending some sales to Imlive and things were going GREAT - I was only a member of their program for a couple weeks and had earned more than $2,400! I was ECSTATIC! What a great company!

Then all of a sudden my account was locked and I received an email stating that I had been suspended by their fraud/abuse department. HUH?

I had done absolutely nothing wrong so I emailed them several times and tried to contact them via ICQ - crickets - no response - then finally weeks later I got an email from them saying they had "Looked at my account and decided to keep it closed." No explanation. Nothing.

I'm mystified, I honestly don't know what I have done wrong, did my joins do an excessive amount of chargebacks or something???

PussyCash I love you, I made MORE money FAST with your program than any other...EVER - I thought we had a great romance brewing - where did I go wrong? Please accept me back!

And what of my $2400? Those guys are still spending money on Imlive right? Some of them at least? I don't get a check at all?

I may have done something wrong and not read their terms and conditions fully... it's entirely possible that I'm to blame here and if that is the case then all I'm looking for is an explanation.

Oren and Crew please email me to discuss adencontent at gmail.

thanks for reading

Aden

Bump for answers from Cyprus or Tel Aviv

http://www.calcalist.co.il/internet/...238502,00.html

Thanks for the bump Adult Mobile
one thing I forgot to add - I didnt just throw up some links to get those joins - I made it my FULL TIME Job for like 2 weeks to get those sales to Imlive. I promoted tirelessly, probably spent like 80-100 hours on the project so it was hard earned money.

*Added on Skype



PS - I hope your issue is resolved, soon! :)

We have been chatted about this issue and clarified what was needed here

Thanks for the hello Tofu!

Update: Oren has contacted me on Skype and explained why he thinks the system booted me, and asked me to put my side of the story into an email so he can discuss it with the PC fraud dept.

I will keep this thread updated each step as this case progresses.

Great seeing you Oren :thumbsup:thumbsup

Hope it all gets resolved

$2400 is a good chunk of cash. GL

Update: I sent off a big email to Oren and the PussyCash fraud prevention staff explaining my side of the story and asking for payment in full.

After my conversation with Oren yesterday it is even more clear that I did absolutely nothing wrong and that the members that I sent to ImLive were 100 percent legitimate and there was not a single case of fraud among them. In fact it looks like they were possibly even denied the credits that they paid for and suspended due to no other reason that they didnt spend enough money on ImLive. Or that they didnt spend money SOON enough.

Anyway Im now waiting for the PC fraud department to return my email and let me know if Im getting paid and when. Hopefully the check will be in the mail soon and this issue will be resolved.

That sucks. I would be mighty pissed at Pussycash and be tempted to say screw you.

I'm not pissed and Oren seems to be a good guy. I do think they have a serious flaw that needs to be fixed with their over zealous fraud prevention software and/or staff - they closed the accounts of all of my perfectly legit joins and froze my account without even responding to my attempts to talk to them and without giving me any explanation.

It's only due to this thread that I am getting any communication from them - and the excuse I'm getting is weak at best.

All business is personal :thumbsup

.

What's the excuse?

I'm confused. Imlive close accounts of users if they don't spend enough money quickly?
Normally fraudster spends too much money quickly, in fact it is fake money... people spending very little and slow, more likely is legitimate.

Im glad Im not the only one who's confused :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Sucks you have to come to GFY to get a response.

you've got to wonder how many accounts get closed for no good reason and the affiliates don't always know about places like gfy to get a response.

Hope you get paid, man ...

Yes it is - I was actually planning my mortgage payments around it, so pretty devastated.

Also it was much more than 2400 - with the PC promo offer that was going that month I was owed closer to 4K I believe.

Thanks Capt! Cool avatar man, you always do have great avatars...I think I fucked one of your avatars once - not the current one. :1orglaugh

Oren helped me solve issue with an webcamwiz domain name infringing our trademarks, was very useful. And now I see handled this promptly. So your issue is just with some guy at fraud dept :)

Well on defense of imlive, I would point out that some 50% (half) of the new affiliates that signup to our cam program are fraudsters. By talking other sites seems consistent ratio, especially they signup in clusters at times, making it 80% frauds for new affiliates for few next days... when they talk about it in black hat or hacker or filipino carder forums.

So handling a cam fraud department it is really a pain, also when you get big chargebacks (thousands of dollars per shot), I bet the fraud guy even fear to lose job or loss is cut from own salary, so will be more strict next time. Some time I been too strict too, even lost good customer and be sent to hell by them due to them joining in same days I had fraudsters attack and them looking like yet a new signup of fraudster.

Had those turkish fraudsters doing new accounts every 10 minutes, then what, a REAL rare legit turkish make an account in middle of that, I made him questions and asked details, and he took it like I am racist against turkish people and he gone, he was sort of right to do so. Had an affiliate id so who sent him lost his commission, shame on me.

Also when they use 3rd party biller instead of merchant.. it is the 3rd party biller fraud dept who voids sales!! Even I think are good... all the billers do this, without even ask the cam site :(

So it could be fraud dept does error it is an hard job! There just I see the issue of no details given to affiliate... and I wonder to customer... each time a fraud is "detected", site should send email with details to everyone involved. I always send... include proxy ip's, bank of card in wrong country and such... and quite never they reply, never seen anyone post in forum. If I had not sent them the data which obviously show this is a fraud, some may have been played honest and even posted in forums, who knows.

So here is the case from our side;

1. Our Fraud department DID come back to you after checking your claims in the mail and re-checked your account and came to decision,as they wrote you,that your account will remain closed and the decision cant be changed.

2.After you described me yesterday your promotion method i explained you briefly that this is clear case of promotion against our terms of use and bad faith,even if your activity wasn't malicious.
It seemed to me that you perfectly understood it while chatting with me.

3.I dont understand how you write this in one of your earlier threads - "After my conversation with Oren yesterday it is even more clear that I did absolutely nothing wrong and that the members that I sent to ImLive were 100 percent legitimate and there was not a single case of fraud among them", where i explained you yesterday EXACTLY the OPPOSITE....
I also don't understand other "facts" that you determine on your threads here about your users,their legitimacy and their behavior. with these things-i really cant help even though I really wanted to help you understanding the case.

4.Moreover,after chatting with you yesterday for 30 min and explaining you in details all relevant issues , i recommended you to write another email, but the email arrived just 24 h after our chat, so meanwhile our Fraud department re-checked your case on the 3rd time and got to conclusion that nothing has changed.I left you msg with this on Skype earlier today (even before you sent your last mail with all the facts you already told me yesterday).

5.Again- Im sure you understand it now %100, and believe me or not- I would have preferred to see you satisfied rather than angry,but this was cut and clear case.

and last for @ DamianJ-
These issues dont need to be solved on GFY,as with all our other similar cases. It is sad that some think that more threads and bumps can change decisions which count on Terms of Use,facts and investigations

I think I get it... PC probably has an algo that will flag a specific number of sign-ups tied to an affiliate where the sign-ups are not spending a lot of $$. The reverse of what most WMs would think would be flagged... Meaning the system perceives a potential scam to get the sign-up commissions plus bonuses. Who knows what the ratio and the velocity is that flags their system. Let's say you had 24 new account sign-ups in 7 days where they only spent about $20 each, @ $480 and you're due a payment of $2,400 for the (24) $100 sign-ups (24%). Bingo, your account gets shut down. But what does PC think, you got a hold of 24 cc's and signed up from 24 different IP addresses around the country or across several countries? For them to have shut down your account and locked down the customer accounts, this scenario has to have happened to them before?

I hope this resolves in your favor and sorry you have to blast it on GFY to get them to review your issue.

Here the point!

Every so often someone has the groundbreaking idea of a payback scheme where they decide to offer an incentive to the person signing up and cash in on big pps + bonus.

Then when they don't get paid we see a thread like this.

Not saying that this is the case, but I have definitely seen this situation on gfy before. The last time I think it was someone paying his forum members to join so he could get bonus cash.

Then the forum friends who signed up, should be here writing too :)

The schema of friends sent to signup as a favor is popular in "philippines chat traffic". They have lots of western friends, they send to signup here and there, to convert the signup help of $10-$20 into bigger pps. instead of beg them for $20 gifts in western union - they send the guy put $20 in a site and get $80-$100+ back...

1. Your fraud department DID get back to me? - They ignored me for weeks after they terminated my account - with thousands of dollars owed to me don't you think I deserved an explanation? Finally I got an email from your fraud department, this is what it consists of in it's entirety:

Please note that your affiliate account with ImLive.com was terminated due to a fraud alert in our fraud department.

Upon receiving your email your account has been re-checked and a decision was made to keep it closed.

You are hereby required not to open any further accounts with any of our services.


Sincerely,
Dassy Condon,
I.M.L. SLU.
Abuse Team

THATS IT???

Oren has referred to this email several times over Skype as if it were a commandment from the highest power. You guys seriously treat people like this as normal business practices?

2. You HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOT told me or demonstrated in ANY WAY that my promotion method violated ANY POLICY.

3. I never said I understood anything you guys have done and I didn't not agree with anything you said to me on Skype. I did NOT trick or scam or trade or coerce or do anything wrong when promoting ImLive. No kickbacks of any kind were asked for or offered to anyone. Nice try trying to trick me into saying that I agreed with your flawed and illogical reason for my termination -asking me to close the skype window after agreeing with you that I understood what I had done wrong - HUH? I did nothing wrong so why would you ask me to state that then close the skype window?

4. You chatted with me for 30 minutes and said nothing other than your hunch that I had violated a policy that was clear to me I did not violate - I was just trying to be nice by not just flat out saying "Bullshit" You have mistaken my desire to be cordial with agreeing with you that I understood the reason for my termination when in reality I have been giving NO REASON and shown NO terms and conditions that I have violated.

5. You say you told me facts and that this is a cut and clear case - nothing could be further from the truth - its 100 percent the fault of your company poor support staff and the long delay in the approval of cam girls that my joins weren't able to spend money FAST ENOUGH to satisfy some algorithm in your fraud dept software that says a join is a fraud. You claim my joins spent no money when that is demonstrably false since my members were only members for a couple weeks before you terminated their accounts - effectively burning them for the $25 join fee. Did you mean to say "Your members didn't spend money SOON ENOUGH"? Because thats the only possible conclusion.

wow

Good luck getting this mess sorted out, never like the cut of their jib so left them alone.

I don't understand what there on about not promoting them right.

PC always seemed sleazy and shady to me. Never promoted them and for sure never will start now.

You quote a shady business practice then say: "Then when they don't get paid we see a thread like this." SO you accuse me of something and then un-accuse me of it on the next sentence by saying "Not saying that this is the case" Ok man.

Just so its nice and sparkling clear what my biz practice is here is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED:



(in chronological order)

1. I planned a show (actually series of shows) for broadcast on ImLive.

2. My performers applied for cam model accounts with ImLive. (legal age US citizen, valid ID)

3. I started letting the word out about the upcoming shows and promoting ImLive with my affiliate referral tracking code.

4. Many legitimate members clicked on my referral links and joined ImLive in anticipation of my planned cam model shows.

5. Imlive took much much longer than I anticipated for the performer approval process to go through, the IM live support was non-responsive when asked why it was taking so long. Questions to the ImLive support about rules and regulations went unanswered. - Also at this point in time my ICQ messages to Oren went ignored.

6. Many of my referred members did not spend money on other performers on ImLive because they were waiting for my talents shows to begin (of COURSE they didnt spend their $25 in credits yet - they were waiting for MY SHOWS)- thus causing the ImLive fraud prevention unit to wrongly accuse me of fraud and terminate my account because they didn't use their credits soon enough. The members were then terminated and not issued refunds for their un-spent credits.

7. I get a few words in an email with no explanation or any reasoning and told the decision is final and irreversible.

PC can you dispute any one of those 7 points?





.

I really don't know what happened or which side of the story is true, so no taking sides at all. I'll just admit that PussyCash's so called "support" is... well... iffy. And that assuming they ever get back at you, so on that part I totally believe the OP. :2 cents:

Everything else, I don't know

Bro, I am of the opinion, after a good few times around the block that the big players in the cam biz are scammers leaving money on the table for honest players due to greed and laziness.

If you want to get set up with a botique cam site who will value what you have to offer and never leave you hanging for payouts hit me at marvel cash at gmail dot com. and we can talk.

I was waiting to comment until I found out your promotion methods. You've explained it well and the reason for your member referrals waiting to spend, makes sense according to your scenario. What specific policy did they say you violated?

The main reason I believe you were scrutinized and your sales cancelled is simply because of how ridiculously high their pps payout is. When a cam program offers $200-$300 per sale and they realize that they are losing money on every one of your referrals, suddenly finding a reason to terminate the affiliate and not pay out becomes a necessity. Had you been promoting a program with the standard pps cam payout of $50-75, I would venture to say they would have had zero issues with your referrals.

I've promoted just about every cam program over the last 15 years and learned a long time ago to stay away from any cam program that offers the huge pps promotions. ($200-300/sale) Mainly that's been Cams.com, AWE and Pussycash/Imlive. Every time I moved my traffic to their promotions I always ended up making much less then when the same traffic was going to other programs with a pps much lower.

Anyhow, I don't see how you violated their tos if you did exactly as you say and I think at the very minimum you should at least be paid out money owed.

This is just my opinion, I have nothing against PC or Aden. I hope this gets resolved.

Your method of promotion on their end most likely looked like this :

1:3 unique to signup ratio

1:1 free to paid conversion ratio

They probably also spent the minimum amount as they were waiting for your model's show to start. I understand there were complications, but from a sponsor's point of view, that's a typical card banging profile.

I'm not saying that's what you did - just giving my opinion here.

(For this part : I assume you were on PPS) After your members didn't spend any more money, fraud dept saw that you had made $2400, and they were waaay in the red. So your account got terminated for (from their point of view) very suspicious activity.

My advice : if you're going to do this type of promo, stick with Revshare. Nobody can lose money on Revshare and you won't ever have to face this type of problem again.

Oh this is just beautiful! Keep in mind that this thread is THE ONLY REASON I EVER GOT ANY COMMUNICATION FROM OREN AND PC (other than the teeny tiny 20 word email saying nothing other than the decision was FINAL) So basically what Oren is saying here is:

It is SAD that we can't just terminate a hard working and honest affiliate that we owe thousands of dollars to with no explanation.

It is SAD that people don't just go away without complaining about be fucked over in a public forum.

It is SAD we can't offer big PPS to everyone, then ban the accounts of anyone whose traffic isn't making us money without anyone knowing we are doing that.

It is SAD I can't ignore ICQ requests for help and not get called out on it.

It is SAD that terminated affiliates don't go quietly after being told that the GODS in our fraud dept decision is irreversible.

It is SAD that we can't accuse someone of fraud then NEVER TELL THEM what fraud was committed or what policy was actually broken.

hahahaha SAD I tell you just SAD!

Cant trust pussycash any more. They will be totally off my site this month. Promoted white label and the regular site on hoodtube.

Found out they switch me from pp to rev share with out telling me and the funny thing is I used rev share at first and the rep told me to use pp so I can make more money. I ask him why they did that with out telling me and he said he will check, its been 5 months Later and no answer.

streamate converts better for me, for one they have better looking girls and been getting checks from there for over 3 years no problems, no weird shit

Agree;

Agree;

This to a fraud dept looks like a (filipino) "chat traffic" or "direct sales", which is: close friends of affiliate (no any random web surfers) are sent to deposit $20 (or min signup) once, via emails or chat talk, in exchange of something (money, yahoo/skype shows) or just "help" as they're friends.

If this was instead guys who waited a model to show, who was not yet registered or showing, after 2 weeks this is impossible to determine for a fraud dept - except if they email the customers asking why they made the sale, one by one (but who knows if they reply), plus question the affiliate itself.

Our cam program give "just" $80 PPS, but be sure even $80 it is not sustainable with this type of chat / direct / friends traffic! So imagine $200 PPS, it's a plain 95% net loss, growing quick, to be stopped ASAP.

I tried to let those type of affiliates run a few weeks, up to paying $3k (40 signups $80pps) to one, but concluded 99% of these signups is once, even after a year from signup, and so just a waste. So wrote in TOS and even in register page: we do not accept chat traffic, contact us in advance if do direct sales methods. So I can understand imlive (or anyone else's) wish to stop this sales patterns as soon as found, this is legit, as long as announced properly.

What to do when this schema is found? It would be best, in my opinion, and we do ourselves this:

1) try to email, chat with affiliate, to see what he has to say; Eventually email users too.

2) if the cards seems not banged and not likely to chargeback (as this case seems to be), pay in full what was signed up before you talked affiliate on 1), and invite him to stop sending traffic, warning no any "next" signup will be paid. So there's really nothing "unpaid" on surprise.

A variant we do with someone, in case we see "some" extra sales are happening, it is: 2b) we offer $40 instead of $80 for next signups. It will be the affiliate to decide if stop send traffic or continue but at lower payout. But we pay the signups made until we contacted the affiliate about the issue... of course except if the issue is banging cards, chargeback likely.. in that case we refund all sales and pay no one (if not refund sales, each chargeback got later, eats $25 in addition to the amount refunded....).

I agree this is probably close to what transpired. Oren alluded to a specific part of their terms that Aden violated with his promotion methods and I wonder what it is since it appears under his scenario that he did nothing wrong.