Explain To Me Why Tubes Require Cumshots
 

Obviously, with no cumshot, the CTR (click thru rate) to the paysite goes WAY up yet tube sites INSIST on cumshots otherwise no homepage placement (where all the good traffic is). Why?

For some paysites and content there IS no 'cumshot' per se (massage sites, lesbian sites, softcore, tease, self-shot EXGF sites, BDSM, some fetish, etc). So yes, for those types of sites tubes are thankfully more flexible. But for "hardcore" sex scenes they INSIST on a pop shot. Why?

The thinking seems to be that surfers will buy something from the tube if there's a pop shot instead of clicking away to the paysite. Even though the tube makes affiliate money from the paysite they make MORE from ads, dating and cam signups, etc. BUT here's the real question:

Someone goes to a tube, jerks off, then.....sticks aroud to BUY something like a cam show? No, makes zero sense. Once they pop it's POOF and they're gone. The tube makes no money from these people and this must account for the overwhelming majority of their traffic. I understand selling ad impressions, time on site and ad sales but, given the behaviours of most surfers/tube visitors, it seems to me like not allowing cumshots would benefit everyone. No?

Ever read an abridged book? They don't take out the endings right? ;)

Generally programs who submit their content to paidperview.com are sending older content anyway, you are selling the new with your tours. Partials are bounce rate city these days and don't convert as they did in the past.

Cumshots= more visitors
More visitors= higher ad rates

It's about giving the tube user a better, more fulfilling experiance with their visit. Cumshots aid with this.
It's why tube clips that are 10-12min long, and have been carefully edited from full scenes so they are in effect, mini versions, and have beginning, middle and ending (ie cumshot), have higher views and higher ratings.
Yes, ctr "May" be lower on videos with cumshot, but the the extra traffic by being front or second page on tubes should counteract the loss of clicks.

Dont you have a beach to worry about right now!?!

bump

:thumbsup:thumbsup

I can what you are all saying but I also think this plays into the expectations of surfers. Part of the reason this Industry is suffering, or at lower levels than years before, is now tubes have "trained" surfers to expect....cumshots. Higher views, more time on site, I do understand how this helps....the tubes. But you could certainly edit a 10-12 minute clip WITHOUT cumshots.

The major problem with the Internet is most people and companies are terrified of 'lag time'. So no one does what needs to be done, taking the longer view that, in the end, the change will be better.

The New York Times (and other newspapers) faced this same exact issue (pun intended) a few years back. At that time you could go online and read The NY Times for free. Guess what happened? Their newspaper sales plummeted and they were, by some estimates, 1-2 years away from going out of business. The New York TIMES!!

So what did they do? They knew what they had to do but were terrified of doing it for more than two years (sound familiar?). They needed to CHARGE to view their product. "But we'll lose all that traffic and views!" (Sound familiar?) But the Times was facing a no-win situation so they, along with most major mewspapers, bit the bullet and started charging for their product. For the first 6-9 months their traffic/views did indeed go down the toilet. But after that people started coming back because they NEED their news (substitute 'news' for 'porn'). Sound familiar? They are still in business today, and actually growing from their low a few years back.

Moral: it might be a good idea to "re-train" surfers to NOT expect cumshots. Give them 10+ videos, fuck give them the entire thing EXCEPT the cumshots. A thought?

the new york times didn't have 1 000 000 other newspapers waiting to replace them at the time. the competition is not the same.

everyone is letting the tubes tell them what to do because they have the traffic. fuck them.

THIS is very true, and I may be trying to un-ring a bell here. :)

There's nothing stopping some "rogue" tube from breaking rank and posting pop shots. But if it's pirated stuff, not authorized by producers, then it could be somewhat handled. Maybe not. Tricky.

Because this industry has always been in a race to see who can give away more free content in an effort to get visitors. The next natural step is that sites will allow visitors to actually fuck their favorite porn if the visitors agree to leave a $10 tip on the night stand when they are done.

cause they want traffic and book markers

8 years in and people just figuring this out. wtf? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

There you go. Finally the truth^^^^^^^^^^^
Tubes could give a rats ass about CPP. xvideos guy even said it.

No, 8 years in and thinking how to turn this ship around, if at all. Maybe time for some counter-programming (marketing).

i got 99 problems but a beach ain't one!


...unfortunately

:1orglaugh

A porn clip without a cumshot is like a day without sunshine.

Tubes require a complete product. Whether its cut to 5 mins or 50 mins, a beginning, middle and end must be present. Dumb, I know.. but tubes aren't in it for affiliate promotion, they are in it for wankers and banner spot selling.

ironic though since real genuine homemade user uploaded porn hardly ever follow this format.

Very very very good points man.

Most newspapers followed suite now too. It just takes one BIG player to do it. But for adult, who's going to be that big player when many big players are also the source of the issue? it would need to be an industry-wide stand to choke them put and then enforce the copyrights to the extreme...

That being said, we wouldn't even hurt the tubes doing it. User uploads will happen. Desperation will happen. Lets be frank, too... some of the best porn out there is produced in people's bedrooms. The tubes will still survive even if we cut them off and find way to stop their panic-mode user-upload scheme from being amplified during an industry-wide stand. Which is fine, they should be allowed to survive, but survive honestly. Look at motherless. Aside from it being a treasure-trove of stolen/despicable/illegal content, take away the industry-created content and the illegal stuff, there's still enough user-CREATED porn to keep them rich.

I hate to suggest it but it's almost time to form an industry trade union with powers of sanction against non-conforming entities. Would be some fun trying to enforce that, though... haha

Putting stars over tits and pussy increases my softcore sales, I get surfers writing "why the dopey stars?" but as long as sales go up then I'm happy

:warning Don't fall for it :warning

Surfers already think us content producers condone the illegal tubes, giving "abridged" versions of your video, with cumshot ( LMFAO ) to a legal tube is greedy on their part, AND will make the surfer think there is no reason to see the video, that they've seen the whole thing.

Let's not forget the majority of tubes now CHARGE for HD versions of promo content. So they are getting paid for ads, and HD versions of your video with cumshot. And what do you get? Is their an affiliate program for content producers when someone clicks on one of your promo videos and decides to become a member of the tube because of your content? No :warning

Exactly. Also add to that longer time on site = higher SE rankings.

This is where the partnership between tubes and content producers is tested, for tubes demanding cumshots.

Instead of a taste of what you'll get, we'll give you the full course meal "abridged" :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

.

NYT = porn site, I agree ))

Every article/comics/movie must have the beginning, middle and happy end )) The tubes just want a complete scene, 12min of teasing,fucking,cuming is enough! Think about this! Dont upload your cum on tubes, keep it for yourself.. Err.. For your members, of course :D

This is exactly what I am working on, a new kind of tube site. It doesn't have to be HUGE for it to be successful (for me). We shall see....:)

You may have something with the newspaper model. But idea needs to be modified.
I would refuse to give cumshots to the tubes. If its cumshot or no front page than I would pass on working with that tube. As people above said they will just charge for memberships, use your clips and say fuck you to content producer.

I think its time for site owners and content producers to take our traffic back.

Some ideas:
Offer shorter membership packages.
Offer more content for loyal members staying longer.
Offer niche specific only packages.
Offer streaming only vs downloading and streaming.

If you make a tube do it differently. Do it from a content owners perspective. Zero pop ups, better quality videos. Maybe give the beginning of a cumshot.
My most successful program, one that converts like crazy will sometimes give partial cumshots then fade to black. Rarely they do this. But it works.

I work in the country with the most sales and biggest production in the world. More porn is produced here in one month than in several months in the US. Some of the practices here can be adapted to the west. I am willing to discuss ideas off the board.

One thing content owners can be is surfer friendly. Tubes are not.
Offer experiences to the surfer that make them like your site. People go to tubes for free but the experience is not fun dealing with all the ads and malware...

A trade union is a great idea but there is too much riff-raff in this business for it to work.

Perhaps people should take seriously the Jewish business model. Jews refuse to work with anti-semites. Jews organize and stick together and work tirelessly. Whether we are Jews or not we need to adapt that philosophy and shun individuals and companies who play the tube game. Shun the webmasters who play dirt games, who steal our work, who re-watermark our content and call it their own, who swap out our affiliate codes for theirs, who use our content to sell cams and dick pills.

At this point things are in a whirl thanks to JT and his exclusive deal. Tubes and people who depend on tubes are going to be or are in trouble. NOW is OUR time to hit. Follow the Israeli model. When you have two enemies fighting, make problems for both of them. JT has admitted it. Content is KING. Cut off the content flow to tubes and have a DMCA agent relentlessly hit them and everyone in their food chain with notices.

Critics of Adult King say he has no affect but he is having an affect. Site by site he is shutting down lockers and now is on to tubes.

We have to do the same thing. Site by site, choke the life out of these thieving cunts.

If you are not willing to engage in a meaningful fight then maybe you should quit and sell shoes or something.
:2 cents:

Without the cumshot, it's quickly obvious to the surfer that this is nothing more than an ad site and the chances of them returning is next to zero. Good enough for ya? Although I feel your pain..

So if I fill my font page with cum shots... what do you think will happen? My bounce will go from 40% to 20%?

As soon as one Tube has the cum shots, the others want them to compete, it's a slippery slope, sponsors need to come up with and enforce some rules

i like poo shots...

Except not everyone will or can be on the first or second page. There is only limited space.

I think we are approaching the end game here if it is truly to the point where the tube can require cumshots from the CPP. I mean you are getting the video for free!

Find a few big name people here to support you and this may work.

Content is king.

This is why the tubes that used to steal content, are now trying to become quality content creators, and they are having their content stolen by the new and improved file lockers.

Your commodity is your content, use it wisely or it wont work for you :2 cents:

heh, i love when people make this analogy.

so theres 1,000,000 content producers left to submit videos, who are shooting solid, new content?

If I had to guess, when you start getting to the #20, if you could even get that high, there's not much left after that. maybe you could get above that # if you take the affiliates submitting from the handful of quality producers left which falsely compounds the # of good content producers. You'd be really hard pressed to get above 50 everything included. I've been doing this since 1998 and I don't think right now I could come up with more than 20 if I spat out all the major companies on the web + DVD producers left that shoot consistently. Is Pimproll still shooting content?

The tubes have successfully cannibalized a TON of content producers to the point where there is only a handful left. The amount of new content being shot is at all time lows, does anyone really dispute this? But the one reason people want to come to the tubes is content. It's a catch 22. This is something that tubes should think about in their treatment of content partners, which is really the entire concept of the OP's post.

Much of what you posted is EXACTLY the project I am working on. My tube site will be a "tube with a twist" and it comes from a Program Owner's perspective, not a tube owner's perspective. Will it work and be successful? Perhaps but I will need the help of "the community" at large in order to gain any traction. We shall see. I will most definitely contact you to brainstorm. :)

(I am going to the EU shows so this project will have to come together later this year but the Goal is to launch by Dec.1)


I think he was referring to 1,000,000 other tube sites filling the cumshot-less void, not necassarily content producers. I agree 100% with you - there's less content now being filmed than ever before. You can see it on the tubes themselves, how many recycled and "old" content is now appearing. This will continue and become a watershed problem in just a year or tow.

Of course, since a tube site's "focus" is monetization in ways that do not help content producers (and said producers not getting a cut of that revenue) we, the Program Owners, are left with trying to find creative ways to monetize the actual content that is monetizing the tubes. LOL

As with most things, trying to "force" a tube site (or any company) to do what's best for you and not them is tricky (and near impossible). So you have to give the tubes an incentive for change because right now they don't really care about Content Partners in terms of overall revenue. It's been stated many times that affiliate sales from CPP's is 4th or 5th on the list of how tubes monetize their traffic. Withholding content in a protest or blockade kind of way will not work. Instead let's try and figure out a way that tubes can make EVEN MORE MONEY with their Content Partners. If that 4th or 5th revenue stream becomes the 2nd or 3rd revenue stream then tubes will want to work even closer with Content Partners. Or that's the theory anyway. LOL

For who will it be a watershed problem? For the tubes? Yes it's true that less and less new porn is produced everyday... Free porn will end one day... it is an end-conclusion, period. Producers need to monatize their content... if that's not anymore possible to a point it's worth investing they will simply stop producing. It allready happend the last 10 years... more and more producers closed their doors.

Selling porn is an increasingly dying bizz-model. That means that the tube-model is also a dying bizz-model:thumbsup Porn is not used anymore to sell porn but to sell ads. That bizz-model only works when the product you want to sell those ads with is very cheap or free to get... tadaaa... It's called parasiting... and every parasite knows that it will die when it's host eventualy dies from all the blood sucking. I highly doubt it's doable to produce content (with all it's costs) for the purpose of using that content to sell ads. Even with a shitload of traffic... you still need a shitload of new content to keep all visitors happy. Without enough new content people will lose their interest in tubes. If you have a paysite and you stop updating people will simply lose interest and stop coming back, simple. It works the same for the tubes.

The day that tube visitors start complaining about the lack of fresh content will be the day i'll drink a beer, smile and tell em to go fuck themselfs. What do people expect? The public is made of fucking idiots! Nothing is for fucking free. In the end someone has to pay for it... No one is going to invest in something that will not pay back. This is not sustainable... it's all a matter of time.

So... this industry is eating itself till there is nothing left. And then it can start all over again...

I hear a lot of people saying they need the traffic from the tubes....
Well... i started uploading last week to some tubes to see. For example one tube with a global 56 alexa rank. I had 4 trailers on their front page for half a day and they are still on page 1 on their niche-page now. They have high likes... 2 of them 100% likes and 2 of them almost 100% likes. Just checking my stats: 3 hits to my site from them... wtf...

I can't look into other peoples stats but in my reality it's like... wtf do you mean with tube-TRAFFIC? There is NO tube traffic...:1orglaugh

The point is similar to the reply above this. Tube sites need content. If there's less content being produced, that's bad for a tube long term, it makes their own offering weak. They may not see the interests as totally aligned, it's because they haven't thought about it...

Imagine a world where half the content being shot today is now the total pool of "new content". Imagine this in 3 years, or 5 years, or 10 years. If you're a large tube, you probably plan on being in business in 5 years so apply the current trajectory. How good is any tube going to really be when youre looking at content from 10-15 years before? Now imagine a world where content production is double or triple what it currently is over that same time period. Imagine how much better those tube sites will be.

That's really the point I am trying to make. In other businesses, they give the content away to sell the live performance. In mainstream they also have merchandise. In our business we have live cam shows, but thats not really connected the same way it is for other industries. If the tubes keep feeding the live cam sites to the point that theres no new (Cams are tubes biggest revenue streams), and the good content to keep people entertained at the tube sites is reduced over time, then eventually the cam sites may become more powerful than the actual tube sites themselves. :2 cents:

A few weeks back I had a really high traffic spike, and correlating sales spike. I checked my stats and it was pornhub. I go on their front page and see two videos from my new site featured on the front page. Tens of thousands of views and tons of likes and favorites. I ride it out for a few days until the sales die down then DMCA them via my PornGuardian account.

A few days later I decide to try and work with Pornhub and signup to be a content partner. I hear back a day or so later that they love my content (surprise), it would be a great fit etc. They tell me to create an account under my site name. I did. Then they said signup with trafficjunky, I did. Then they said send us banners in xyz size etc. etc. I reply back no problem just sign up for my affiliate program and gave them a link. Never heard back. Sent a couple follow ups, never heard back.

So yeah the tube got a couple of my videos with cumshots for a week, I got some sales. They lost my videos and never hit me back to continue making money with me. Doesn't make any sense. Counter productive.

It's good for branding, not hits to site. Brand some big quality feeder sites, wait a year or two.. it'll pay off for you - and the dozens of ripper/reuploaders who put their own watermarks on..

That's awesome. I support you 1000%. If I can be of any help I am glad to.
One just has to check the B2C forums and realize the masses are grumbling about shitty tubes. That's where much of what I said came from. Consumers.

I really don't support tubes who are not content producers though. Content Producers need to make their own tubes and hire someone to develop if they have to. We have started some tubes over the past 4years. Real tube channels not the fake shit the big guys are doing. Our conversions for one program are around 1:17. We give the surfer multiple options of what to do and we do not annoy the fuck out of them with irrelevant products and pop ups.

People wonder why ADBlocker is so popular now...Thank the tubes.

I think I just had a TGP2 flashback.