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Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:19 AM
"That's How They Getcha!" Cams/Dating TOS fails
 
A decade ago, when I was making good money selling monthly porn subscriptions on a revshare basis, I utterly swore off promoting cams and dating. In some cases this was because I didn't like the ROI on the traffic I was sending, and in other cases I found too many shady terms in the relevant terms and conditions. Ultimately I concluded (again, this was ten years ago) that I was wasting my traffic sending it to those industries.

Well, times change, and we all know that monthly porn subscriptions aren't what they used to be. But cams and dating continue to thrive. So I've begun a sort of systematic exploration of the offerings, to see if I can find a place why my small volumes of high-quality traffic can make me some money.

So far, my impressions aren't good. This thread will document my research process, or at least the parts of it that lead to dead ends.

Given the fact that I will be sending small test volumes of traffic, I'm looking for a program that will pay out in reasonable minimum amounts ($100 is fine, $50 is better) using convenient and non-shady payment methods (PayPal is awesome, a check on a US bank is fine, bank transfers are dubious because of cost) with no penalty for low-volume affiliates. Given my revshare roots and philosophy, I'm always looking for some way to share in recurring business, and thus I despise any sort of takeback provisions that steal my revshare on past business for any reason. Eating my revshares from historic traffic because I'm not currently sending traffic or generating new sales is NOT acceptable.

For you youngsters, my thread title "That's how they getcha!" is a tagline from an old show called Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist. Here's the relevant bit on YouTube.

Please note: This is a business thread, not a "spam me with your refcode" thread. I will be criticizing and making fun of the cams and dating sites I discuss here. If you rep a program, feel free to contact me about it elsewhere. But you would be ill-advised to mention or promote it here unless you are 100% certain your terms meet my weary, jaded, and cynical high standards. (Hint: They probably don't.)

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:20 AM
Let's meet the first contestant, shall we?

PlayWithMe, from Medly. (Cams offering)

Medly and I go way back ... all the way back to 2001. From the very beginning they got marked as "shady" in my book because they advertised a variety of pay-per-click and pay-per-signup programs with a "retroactive convert to revshare" policy that they applied very swiftly to anybody whose pay-per-click or free/cheap signups weren't making them more money than revshare would. That didn't bother me in the specifics -- I was always a revshare guy -- but they were very deceptive about it in the early days. And my thinking about non-revshare programs is that by offering to pay for traffic before the monetization is complete, the program is making a confident wager about its long term ability to monetize your traffic. "Your traffic is going to make us so much money, we'll bribe you now with up-front money so that you'll sell us your rights to the revenue stream for less than those rights are worth." Thus, in my mind, it's cheating to make that bet, try and fail to monetize the traffic, and then come back and retroactively switch the affiliate to revshare, which is what these guys used to do. GFY used to be filled with complaints from dismayed new affiliates who wracked up hundreds of dollars in PPS revenue, only to log into their affiliate stats and see it all gone because their free signups didn't immediately convert to paid ones. So that's how they got on my shady list in the early days of the 21st century.

How about today? You have to click through three succeeding pages to find out that the "up to 35% on sales forever" that they advertise prominently actually translates to 20% unless you send more than five sales a day. Not awesome, but an industry-standard way to present the affiliate offer.

However, it's when you get to that third page that things start falling short of my admittedly high standards.

First, I noticed that the incorporated-by-reference main Medly TOS has a clawback for retaining funds from low-activity accounts. The amounts and timelines seem reasonable, though:

Quote:
The Commission Payment Floor is currently $50.00... If you have not earned or accrued referral fees in at least the amount of the Commission Payment Floor in the six (6) months prior to any given monthly payment period, or if your Account is suspended as provided herein, we reserve the right, in our sole discretion without notice to you, and without waiver by us, to charge you an Account maintenance fee in an amount up to $50 per six (6) month period. The account maintenance fee charged may be deducted and offset against any unpaid Commissions.
More troubling is the general Medly policy of allowing themselves unlimited traffic leaks. "Not all paid products or services appearing on a given FFN Site entitle you to a Commission." Back on the rules page for PlayWithMe, they make this even more explicit: "3. Orders for services or products other than a Gold or Silver level membership, or any orders following a downgrade from a Silver or Gold level membership to a standard level membership, are not compensated under this program."

No disclosure is offered to affiliates as to what other levels of membership may be offered to PlayWithMe traffic, or what "products and services" may be offered to that traffic other than gold or silver memberships. 20 percent of all sales would be a reasonable offer on small traffic. 20 percent of a fraction of all sales, with no limits on uncompensated cross sales or upsales? No. That's not a commercially-reasonable offer. That's a pay-per-sale sort of provision, and this is not a pay-per-sale program.

That's how they getcha. Next!

ITraffic 03-07-2015 08:26 AM
your time would be better spent building traffic them niggling over a few percentage points here and there. just my opinion.

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:35 AM
Next I looked at the dating offers in the currently-pinned thread from Together Networks. I haven't given them the full fine-toothed-comb suspicious read yet, because of the glaring inconsistency I found between the FAQ on their front page and their TOS. Compare these quotes:

Quote:
4. WHAT AMOUNT DO I NEED TO EARN BEFORE I CAN WITHDRAW MY MONEY?
The minimum amount for withdrawal is $50 for all payment methods except bank transfer, which is $100. If you do not reach this value within a month, then the entire sum is carried to the next month.
Quote:
We will pay you any Commissions earned monthly, provided that your account is currently greater than $350. Accounts with a balance of less than $350 will roll over to the next month, and will continue to roll over monthly until $350 is reached.
Although this could be flat and deliberate lies in the front-page FAQ, it's much more likely to be an error; either the front page FAQ or the TOS is probably out of date. Still, until changed the TOS is what they would fall back on, and $350 is way too much.

That's how they getcha. Next!

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITraffic (Post 20412550)
your time would be better spent building traffic them niggling over a few percentage points here and there. just my opinion.
My whole career has been built on quality before quantity. Obviously I haven't been in this business since 2001 without building traffic at every opportunity. But nobody gets a ton of my traffic until we have several years of good reliable business history between us. If a program won't offer fair and honest payment on the sales from small traffic sent in irregular bursts, why on God's green earth would I contemplate sending them higher volumes?

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:43 AM
That's all for today. I'll be updating this thread in the next weeks as my research continues.

ITraffic 03-07-2015 08:51 AM
because there is like 10 cam sites to promote and the same with dating. it's not like back in the paysite days where you had hundreds of worthy ones to choose from. test them all and go with the ones that make the most money and actually pay. i know people that stay away from programs because of some purported board "scandal" or some weird tos thing but those are one of the few programs left that actually convert and pay every time. then again, you are free to spend your time as you wish.

TheSquealer 03-07-2015 08:57 AM
Either you have traffic and you matter... or you don't and you don't. End of story. Payouts and terms can always be negotiated if you have quality traffic and aren't just another clown talking out his ass - like 99% of people here.

Only a broke and deranged lunatic would spend time focused on picking apart a programs TOS and searching for grammatical inconsistencies or contradictions rather than being productive and making sure he's earning the very highest earnings per unique visitor.

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 08:58 AM
In my experience if their TOS tells you up front that they're not going to pay you, they are definitely not going to pay you. That's not a "weird TOS thing", it's a warning.

TheSquealer 03-07-2015 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20412598)
In my experience if their TOS tells you up front that they're not going to pay you, they are definitely not going to pay you. That's not a "weird TOS thing", it's a warning.
Every single TOS in the history of this business has been heavily weighted towards the program. It doesn't mean anything at all.... unless you are a silly twit that spends his time worrying about hitting a monthly 50.00 minimum, rather than working towards having the volume to negotiate your own terms.

StinkyPink 03-07-2015 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 20412595)
Either you have traffic and you matter... or you don't and you don't. End of story. Payouts and terms can always be negotiated if you have quality traffic and aren't just another clown talking out his ass - like 99% of people here.

Only a broke and deranged lunatic would spend time focused on picking apart a programs TOS and searching for grammatical inconsistencies or contradictions rather than being productive and making sure he's earning the very highest earnings per unique visitor.
Why? So that the company in question can just take his hard earned cash due to their fudged TOS? Makes no sense.

bns666 03-07-2015 09:14 AM
Forkbeard, those TOS details are more or less usual with all programs, so get used to them, just wait how shady some practices appear in the long run when you send them consistent traffic on monthly basis, don't bang your head over TOS, stick with the programs which make you monies and ditch the ones which don't.

Also you have to be aware that you're re-selling their product for a commission in the first place, it's all targeted how you will make more money for them, not the other way around.

TheSquealer 03-07-2015 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyPink (Post 20412606)
Why? So that the company in question can just take his hard earned cash due to their fudged TOS? Makes no sense.
Ok... using cams and dating again as an example. THERE ARE TONS OF RELIABLE, WELL ESTABLISHED & WELL KNOWN PROGRAMS TO USE.

End of story. Use them. Why invest time in thoroughly unproductive behavior.

At the end of the day, this is not about any TOS. This is about immature, paranoid and distrustful or mentally ill people wasting their time fretting over stupid shit rather than making money.

You will NEVER see a person with real traffic or volume spending time on dumb shit like this or even giving it a second thought.

directfiesta 03-07-2015 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 20412615)
Ok... using cams and dating again as an example. THERE ARE TONS OF RELIABLE, WELL ESTABLISHED & WELL KNOWN PROGRAMS TO USE.

End of story. Use them. Why invest time in thoroughly unproductive behavior.
Is that a FACT ? ..... your backup data doesn't allow me to evaluate that... OP has supplied data analysis :2 cents:

StinkyPink 03-07-2015 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 20412615)
Ok... using cams and dating again as an example. THERE ARE TONS OF RELIABLE, WELL ESTABLISHED & WELL KNOWN PROGRAMS TO USE.

End of story. Use them. Why invest time in thoroughly unproductive behavior.

At the end of the day, this is not about any TOS. This is about immature, paranoid and distrustful or mentally ill people wasting their time fretting over stupid shit rather than making money.

You will NEVER see a person with real traffic or volume spending time on dumb shit like this or even giving it a second thought.
Exactly what the OP is going to prove. One way or the other. Also, likely he is doing this with these companies you call well established. A waste of time would be going through the ones that are not.

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bns666 (Post 20412613)
Forkbeard, those TOS details are more or less usual with all programs, so get used to them.
You must not have read my OP.

I know that most of the cams and dating programs are shady and have shady TOS. The purpose of this survey (after years spent ignoring them all) is to see if there are exceptions. This thread is me looking at them one by one and going "nope, this one is no exception." And sharing that analysis here.

If you're telling me there's no good program with fair TOS out there, I'm inclined to believe you. But I'm still gonna look.

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 10:28 AM
Despite his efforts to be as offensive as possible in his criticism of my little research project, TheSquealer does make one good point. TOS really don't matter with good programs. By definition, a good program is going to pay you honestly and they aren't going to pick nits (or even enforce their own terms) against a webmaster that's sending them lots of sales. I have programs that have been paying me reliably for a decade, and I couldn't give a shit less what their TOS says, because they're going to keep paying me.

What TheSquealer clearly doesn't understand is that in cams and dating I've got no way to know which programs are like that, if any. And in my experience in other parts of the adult industry, examining the TOS really is a useful way of weeding out the programs that aren't going to pay reliably. Most people who are going to screw you actually say so in the fine print, which they rely on you not reading.

And if there's a company out there that really does make it a priority to pay affiliates every dime that the affiliates have coming, they usually make it a point to say so in their affiliate materials. It might be a lie, but at least it's a place to start.

StinkyPink 03-07-2015 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20412682)
Despite his efforts to be as offensive as possible in his criticism of my little research project, TheSquealer does make one good point. TOS really don't matter with good programs. By definition, a good program is going to pay you honestly and they aren't going to pick nits (or even enforce their own terms) against a webmaster that's sending them lots of sales. I have programs that have been paying me reliably for a decade, and I couldn't give a shit less what their TOS says, because they're going to keep paying me.

What TheSquealer clearly doesn't understand is that in cams and dating I've got no way to know which programs are like that, if any. And in my experience in other parts of the adult industry, examining the TOS really is a useful way of weeding out the programs that aren't going to pay reliably. Most people who are going to screw you actually say so in the fine print, which they rely on you not reading.

And if there's a company out there that really does make it a priority to pay affiliates every dime that the affiliates have coming, they usually make it a point to say so in their affiliate materials. It might be a lie, but at least it's a place to start.
I understand too how this goes. While I am no longer an "affiliate" per se, when I was starting out I was sending little bit here little bit there to many programs, some stats were crazy bad as were some practices. So when I did actually have some decent traffic, I would not even send it to the sites that jerked me around when I sent them "trickles".

Mediamix 03-07-2015 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20412546)
Please note: This is a business thread, not a "spam me with your refcode" thread.
I had some problems with DatingFactory, and they still didn't pay me after I complained here... But.. They are still in my book as the best affiliate dating platform in this business. I've got a decent explanation from the staff and sometimes that is all you need to keep the trust. Their minimum payout is 100 Euro/Dollar.. I don't promote these guys myself, but I've got some referrals.. I'm almost at the payout level now and I'm sure they will pay me. Because they are good people.

Most webmasters that complain about not getting paid are sending bad traffic or have a fraudulent way of doing business..

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediamix (Post 20412747)
Their minimum payout is 100 Euro/Dollar. I don't promote these guys myself, but I've got some referrals.. I'm almost at the payout level now and I'm sure they will pay me. Because they are good people.
Rochard is a name I trust (within reason) mostly because he joined this board two months before I did and has always been solid in his public persona here. Faking business respectability for thirteen-plus years would be a lot harder than just being respectable, so it counts for quite a bit even though we haven't (to my knowledge) done business, except for maybe some link trades back in the day.

I don't have a problem with a clearly-disclosed 100 minimum, though it's maybe a little steep. And it's significant to me that Christiana Scolaro gave you advice on how to get your money, rather than just doing what you asked and silently eating the money. Going the extra mile to pay out a sub-minimum account on closure would be the zealous commitment to paying affiliates every dime they earn that I'm really looking for, but that kind of fiduciary zeal is rare in this fallen world. Trying to get you paid within the rules is sufficient, and respectable.

The Porn Nerd 03-07-2015 01:34 PM
I run paysites and offer cams and dating inside my 84 Members Areas. So the traffic is relatively small but also 'targeted' (to some extent). Here's MY problem with cams and dating as a business model for the affiliate vs. paysites for the affiliate:

With cams/dating the affiliate really has ZERO idea how much the Customer actually spends. That's why we get paid on intial signups (and all the fun little tricks that go along with them, like trials and upgrading and converting blah blah). Once a cam or dating Customer is inside the cam or dating site they basically POOF disappear in terms of how much they spend and you, the affiliate, knowing about it.

With paysites when someone joins you get the sale (and rebill), end of story. Sure, there may be Upsells in the MA that you, the affiliate, do not get a piece of but this is, at best, ancillary income (not the main moneymaker).

So there's my problem with cams and dating Programs. How the fuck do I know how much a Customer actually spends? You say he spent $x but maybe he really spent $xxx. Again, how would I know?

Trust, in this business and with that business model, is not something I trust. LOL

StinkyPink 03-07-2015 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20412780)
I run paysites and offer cams and dating inside my 84 Members Areas. So the traffic is relatively small but also 'targeted' (to some extent). Here's MY problem with cams and dating as a business model for the affiliate vs. paysites for the affiliate:

With cams/dating the affiliate really has ZERO idea how much the Customer actually spends. That's why we get paid on intial signups (and all the fun little tricks that go along with them, like trials and upgrading and converting blah blah). Once a cam or dating Customer is inside the cam or dating site they basically POOF disappear in terms of how much they spend and you, the affiliate, knowing about it.

With paysites when someone joins you get the sale (and rebill), end of story. Sure, there may be Upsells in the MA that you, the affiliate, do not get a piece of but this is, at best, ancillary income (not the main moneymaker).

So there's my problem with cams and dating Programs. How the fuck do I know how much a Customer actually spends? You say he spent $x but maybe he really spent $xxx. Again, how would I know?

Trust, in this business and with that business model, is not something I trust. LOL
While I understand what you are trying to say, I see no difference in your two examples.

Except that yes, an upsell is not main income for porn sponsor, but it is income... I am sure the same goes with the cam/dating sponsors as well.

What I mean is that affiliates really never know how much their customer spent while clicking your ads either... One thing I do know... the affiliate doesn't know for fact he's not getting a cut of his customers upsells with cams/dating... but they do know for fact (mostly cause you just stated so, but also because while some sponsors may pass the buck on upsells, many do not) they will not be getting cut of (most) sponsors (or MA) up/cross sells.

Forkbeard 03-07-2015 02:51 PM
There are good revshare sponsors out there who do in fact track and reimburse affiliates for their share of every dime the referred surfer spends.

The Porn Nerd 03-07-2015 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyPink (Post 20412799)
While I understand what you are trying to say, I see no difference in your two examples.

Except that yes, an upsell is not main income for porn sponsor, but it is income... I am sure the same goes with the cam/dating sponsors as well.

What I mean is that affiliates really never know how much their customer spent while clicking your ads either... One thing I do know... the affiliate doesn't know for fact he's not getting a cut of his customers upsells with cams/dating... but they do know for fact (mostly cause you just stated so, but also because while some sponsors may pass the buck on upsells, many do not) they will not be getting cut of (most) sponsors (or MA) up/cross sells.
Well, for one thing the amount of revenue I get from all my upsells combined would barely amount to an iced cappucino at Starbucks. But aside from upsells - which I do not know if cam programs offer or not since I have never joined any as a Customer nor have I ever spent a single penny on a cam girl or show - my point was the Customer could be spending thousands of dollars with a cam company and the affiliate would never know. He's SUPPOSED to know, in theory, but.....LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20412809)
There are good revshare sponsors out there who do in fact track and reimburse affiliates for their share of every dime the referred surfer spends.
Maybe there are but I highly doubt if affiliate sends surfer to Site A and surfer joins Site A, then that now Member joins Site B inside Site A's Members Area, the affiliate is getting a cut of sale to Site B. As I said, maybe some are but none of the Programs I promote seem to do so.

Let's put it this way: I send Memberships, as an affiliate, to about 15 Sponsers and I never, ever, ever see any more revenue than the 1 or 2 random sales I send. Shrug.

pimpmaster9000 03-07-2015 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20412780)
So there's my problem with cams and dating Programs. How the fuck do I know how much a Customer actually spends? You say he spent $x but maybe he really spent $xxx. Again, how would I know?
if you are serious about promoting cams then you get a friend to join and give him money to spend and see if it shows up...you are the affiliate and you get part of the money back...you test from time to time with different people...if you never catch them shaving you then you have a reasonable chance of promoting them and not being ripped...

StinkyPink 03-07-2015 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20412820)
Well, for one thing the amount of revenue I get from all my upsells combined would barely amount to an iced cappucino at Starbucks. But aside from upsells - which I do not know if cam programs offer or not since I have never joined any as a Customer nor have I ever spent a single penny on a cam girl or show - my point was the Customer could be spending thousands of dollars with a cam company and the affiliate would never know. He's SUPPOSED to know, in theory, but.....LOL
This is why I stated "While I understand what you are trying to say".

The Porn Nerd 03-08-2015 09:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinkyPink (Post 20412842)
This is why I stated "While I understand what you are trying to say".
Ahh sorry, I obviously did not unerstand what you were trying to say. LOL :)

AmeliaG 03-09-2015 02:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20412548)
Let's meet the first contestant, shall we?

PlayWithMe, from Medly. (Cams offering)

Medly and I go way back ... all the way back to 2001. From the very beginning they got marked as "shady" in my book because they advertised a variety of pay-per-click and pay-per-signup programs with a "retroactive convert to revshare" policy that they applied very swiftly to anybody whose pay-per-click or free/cheap signups weren't making them more money than revshare would. That didn't bother me in the specifics -- I was always a revshare guy -- but they were very deceptive about it in the early days. And my thinking about non-revshare programs is that by offering to pay for traffic before the monetization is complete, the program is making a confident wager about its long term ability to monetize your traffic. "Your traffic is going to make us so much money, we'll bribe you now with up-front money so that you'll sell us your rights to the revenue stream for less than those rights are worth." Thus, in my mind, it's cheating to make that bet, try and fail to monetize the traffic, and then come back and retroactively switch the affiliate to revshare, which is what these guys used to do. GFY used to be filled with complaints from dismayed new affiliates who wracked up hundreds of dollars in PPS revenue, only to log into their affiliate stats and see it all gone because their free signups didn't immediately convert to paid ones. So that's how they got on my shady list in the early days of the 21st century.

How about today? You have to click through three succeeding pages to find out that the "up to 35% on sales forever" that they advertise prominently actually translates to 20% unless you send more than five sales a day. Not awesome, but an industry-standard way to present the affiliate offer.

However, it's when you get to that third page that things start falling short of my admittedly high standards.

First, I noticed that the incorporated-by-reference main Medly TOS has a clawback for retaining funds from low-activity accounts. The amounts and timelines seem reasonable, though:



More troubling is the general Medly policy of allowing themselves unlimited traffic leaks. "Not all paid products or services appearing on a given FFN Site entitle you to a Commission." Back on the rules page for PlayWithMe, they make this even more explicit: "3. Orders for services or products other than a Gold or Silver level membership, or any orders following a downgrade from a Silver or Gold level membership to a standard level membership, are not compensated under this program."

No disclosure is offered to affiliates as to what other levels of membership may be offered to PlayWithMe traffic, or what "products and services" may be offered to that traffic other than gold or silver memberships. 20 percent of all sales would be a reasonable offer on small traffic. 20 percent of a fraction of all sales, with no limits on uncompensated cross sales or upsales? No. That's not a commercially-reasonable offer. That's a pay-per-sale sort of provision, and this is not a pay-per-sale program.

That's how they getcha. Next!

This is one of the best explanations of the plusses of revshare :thumbsup

AmeliaG 03-09-2015 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquealer (Post 20412595)
Either you have traffic and you matter... or you don't and you don't. End of story. Payouts and terms can always be negotiated if you have quality traffic and aren't just another clown talking out his ass - like 99% of people here.

Only a broke and deranged lunatic would spend time focused on picking apart a programs TOS and searching for grammatical inconsistencies or contradictions rather than being productive and making sure he's earning the very highest earnings per unique visitor.

It takes a lot less time to do due diligence on the front end than chase your money later.

Forkbeard 03-09-2015 07:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20413619)
It takes a lot less time to do due diligence on the front end than chase your money later.
This! :thumbsup


I've been burned too many times by assuming that some program with a good bro-rep would have reasonable terms. Over time I've learned that the single most important criterion from an affiliate perspective is "Does this program have a bone-deep commitment to paying its affiliates? Or is it always on the lookout for excuses not to pay?"

The programs that are eager for ways to pocket your money will virtually always telegraph this in their TOS.

Phoenix 03-09-2015 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forkbeard (Post 20413755)
This! :thumbsup


I've been burned too many times by assuming that some program with a good bro-rep would have reasonable terms. Over time I've learned that the single most important criterion from an affiliate perspective is "Does this program have a bone-deep commitment to paying its affiliates? Or is it always on the lookout for excuses not to pay?"

The programs that are eager for ways to pocket your money will virtually always telegraph this in their TOS.
I can respect someone who reads the fine print. I do not know why you would be called out for that. I am shocked at how few people read the terms.

striver 03-09-2015 08:43 AM
Best mobile traffic network for adult dating
 
Hi all. I'm fairly new to this Affiliate game. I'm looking for trusted mobile traffic networks to run a few CPA adult dating offers. Can anyone put me on the right track.:2 cents:

mopek1 03-09-2015 09:59 AM
Thanks for this thread Forkbeard.

I appreciate you sharing your findings and analysis with us.

It's great to have a genuine business thread here again.

Barry-xlovecam 03-09-2015 10:10 AM
There is always some slippage with customers making new accounts and the customer rather than the referral's customer "member name (join name, nickname)" being the apportioning criterion.

If that worries you that much: Using your own domain with a white label makes sense as all sales from your domain, and for that matter, currently, from any website domain or white label domain in the entire xlovecam/xlovecash network made by your customers are credited to your account.

As far as affiliate contract (or agreement) they are contracts of adhesion. They are either fair or riddled with loopholes so I can understand your apprehension.


xlovecash

The cam business is no more shady than any other -- if you were an investor with Lehman Brothers or a stockholder in GM or Chrysler you would get my meaning.

The Porn Nerd 03-09-2015 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 20413968)

The cam business is no more shady than any other -- if you were an investor with Lehman Brothers or a stockholder in GM or Chrysler you would get my meaning.
OK I am going to assume you were high or drunk when you made that statement. LOL Wall Street has SOME "regulations" and there is SOME recourse if you get fucked in the asshole. But with porn/cams? Come on now. LOL

Here's a Pro tip when it comes to cams: to keep ANY cam company "honest" (regardless of their TOS) you MUST rotate your ads/cam Programs. Why? Because the moment you start sending consistent traffic the Program will....well, we know what they will do. So swap 'em out every 3-4 months. THEN when a Rep contacts YOU and goes "WTF man, you were sending sales...." you can negotiate better terms to put BACK their links. Otherwise? You will see initial sales then consistent dwindling over time til you reach whatever level the cam companies feel you will put up with without complaining.

:)

Good luck Forkbeard!! (And thanks for this thread!)

vending_machine 03-09-2015 11:23 AM
The Porn Nerd, the only way in any sort of business, paysite, cams or dating, you will truly know what the customer spends is if you process on your own merchant and use your merchant for the upsell. Otherwise you simply have to have trust.

The Porn Nerd 03-09-2015 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vending_machine (Post 20414089)
The Porn Nerd, the only way in any sort of business, paysite, cams or dating, you will truly know what the customer spends is if you process on your own merchant and use your merchant for the upsell. Otherwise you simply have to have trust.
I agree - but who can you "trust"? No one, that's who. Thus my stance on rotating links.

Barry-xlovecam 03-09-2015 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20414076)
OK I am going to assume you were high or drunk when you made that statement. LOL Wall Street has SOME "regulations" and there is SOME recourse if you get fucked in the asshole. But with porn/cams? Come on now. LOL

Here's a Pro tip when it comes to cams: to keep ANY cam company "honest" (regardless of their TOS) you MUST rotate your ads/cam Programs. Why? Because the moment you start sending consistent traffic the Program will....well, we know what they will do. So swap 'em out every 3-4 months. THEN when a Rep contacts YOU and goes "WTF man, you were sending sales...." you can negotiate better terms to put BACK their links. Otherwise? You will see initial sales then consistent dwindling over time til you reach whatever level the cam companies feel you will put up with without complaining.

:)

Good luck Forkbeard!! (And thanks for this thread!)
Sorry you feel that way -- bye

vending_machine 03-09-2015 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20414097)
I agree - but who can you "trust"? No one, that's who. Thus my stance on rotating links.
If you're not making any money on cams, you just answered your own question.

TheSquealer 03-09-2015 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20413619)
It takes a lot less time to do due diligence on the front end than chase your money later.
Newsflash - you don't own your domains and the registrar can do whatever the fuck they want, when they want with them. You obviously didn't read the TOS which is the same with every registrar.

Same with affiliate programs. A program's TOS is ALWAYS heavily weighted toward them. That's not new. It's not a new discovery.

As always in life, the only predictor of future behavior is past behavior. TOS is not a predictor of anything other than a webmasters naïveté and immaturity. No serious webmaster or business person would place any trust in a program that has not demonstrated they can be trusted through past behavior or where trust was not earned.


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