whats with the wave of shitty designers?
 

not that you do bad work (although lots of you do, no offense) but why the drop in prices??

stop fucking up the industry

i mean for real, $20 TGP templates?!??! whats the going rate for a gallery template, $2 ??

how fucking broke are you??

a few points id like to make;

1. if the customer hasnt got enough cash to pay a real designer, fuck him, he wont make it as an adult webmaster to begin with.

2. you are allowing all the know-nothing newbs to come out of the woodwork and grab a design to brand themselves as "webamsters"

3. why not just find out what the others are charging, then just beat their price?

4. what exactly are you accomplishing lol. i mean you would need to do 2,000 designs just to make $40k :1orglaugh

5. the only customers you will ever get are the ones who will never amount to anything, so how is this helping your rep as a designer?


90% of us know that you get what you pay for so we would never contract a broke 16yr old like yourself, im just wondering why the sudden craving to ruin the market for the better designers like fletch, tiarra, mcr, etc.



:321GFY


ok my rant is over, sorry i vented ...

yah i know people are cutting themselves short and making the 90 percent of other designers look overpriced

i guess you havent been watching CNN

i cant design for shit.

glad to outsource when i can.

btw, u can buy templates on ebay! saves a buck or 4

trust me, any customers worth getting already know the designers rep and know where to find him, no spam is needed.

when i go looking for a designer i talk to the few people that i trust and price is not an issue.

ill pay whatever it takes to have his work and not some 15yr old fuckup who couldnt hack a job at mcd's so he desided to steal a copy of PS

why cant this same exact process affect the traffic business?

imagine seeign threads like "100k hits for only $5 - traffic blowout!"

:1orglaugh

It's summer dood, people are hungry. Stop hating man

i might be hating, but this really doesnt affect me other than just getting under my skin.

im not a designer, and id never hire anyone that undercuts the price of a hamburger lol

it just really gets under my skin to see the very talented people possibly losing orders because some kid wants to make $100 to go out this weekend, or grab his next bag of pot ...

we have designers here that have been doing it for years, and they have families to feed! This is a carreer for them not just a fucking joke or hobby

The problem is the same thing that is happening everywhere. Companies/individuals from countries where wages are extremely low will give drastically reduced prices in order to get the job. After all if the average wage in their country is 2 bucks american an hour they can do that and still make a good living.

Webmasters/companies looking to save a buck will go with the cheaper price. North American designers feel the pinch because all the work is going out to cheap outsourcing so they feel they have to lower their prices...because they have to make at least some money.

Solution? Hell if I know but I am glad that there are still some webmasters/companies who are willing to pay the going rates and give the North American designers some work where they can make a decent living.

I'll post something aaronM said in another thread thats relative to this thread.


" I do not allow the other broke ass content providers to dictate my pricing structure."

no shit, I would be buying all day long.:1orglaugh

If a designer is that good he or she will have plenty of work so why the big deal if paintshop paul cranks out $10.00 galleries? I'm sure alot of the better designers had to start out giving their stuff away to get a rep and some experience. Everyone has to start somewhere.

"Paintshop Paul" :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

It takes money to be a content provider. It takes a cracked version of Photoshop to be a designer.

Big difference.

there are 2 types of people in business.

those who work for someone
and those who work for themselves

those who work for someone are given work to do.

those who work for themselves are out pounding the pavemet getting work and dont give a shit about the other guy undercutting them.

we just keep pounding baby.


theyre are 4 types of clients

the informed who dont fuck with you on price
the uninformed who dont fuck with you on price

the informed who fuck with you on price
the uninformed who fuck with you on price

when the client who fucks with you about the price comes back after they got fucked by some kid who didnt know shit about what he was doing, I give him a little education.

i charge em extra.

No you're missing my point.

If you decide you want to be a content provider there is a lot more going into the cost of starting that up vs being a designer.

And when I use the word "designer" I'm using it loosely.

So once again...to be a "designer" all it takes is a cracked version of photoshop.

What he said :thumbsup

I have to agree with Lil2rich4u, the prices have been so low and many designers selling themselves short that most people feel like $30 a gallery template is TOO MUCH money to pay because some fucking dipshit on GFY is selling $10 per gallery temp.:mad:

i figured thats what you maent after thinking about it and your age too, not being a kid.

no harm meant!:thumbsup

I've done both...dude if you can't figure this out there's nothing I can do to explain it to you.

I'm talking about the influx of kids coming on GFY and calling themselves designers and selling galleries..tgps etc for half or a 1/3 of what others are.

Want to shoot content...you need a camera. $600+ , models depending upon what you want them to do and their going rate.... $75-$800.
Ads to find models...and believe me I'm in Vegas it's not that easy...or you pay a guy to referr models to you...$50 a pop...been there and it was the easiest thing to do.

LIghts...video tapes...batteries...if you're not shooting in your house then you have to pay for some sort of location..could be a motel...etc.

So add that up..the cost of getting into that biz while no where near the cost of starting most would be out of reach for most of these newbies..kids...whatever.

If they have a computer and have banged out some sites or some galleries and have a copy of photoshop they are ready to call themselves a designer...and it's done a lot on here.

and what about those like us, who work for ourselves and also for other people? and those who don't work? :Graucho and what about the informed that don't pay? or the uninformed? :glugglug

No problem man.

im on the same page and agree with you :thumbsup

you caught the "any asshole can pick up a camera" post right before i deleted it



:1orglaugh

LOL Yeah I saw it after I made my long drawn out post.

it's happened in this and every industry...



consider all those 'part time' real estate ma & pop types taking sales away from full time agents?

what about all those people selling a few cars on the side for spare cash, taking away from full time car salesmen...


the list goes on ...

Why hasn't Fletch posted here yet??

He ALWAYS complain about this cheap ass designers....

It takes the same amount of time to make a tgp gallery as it does to make a tgp site. So why should it cost anymore?

If a high end tgp gallery template is $30-40, shouldn't a tgp site be the same price?

They are simple now, Nice Header, and then something surrounding the thumbs that is copied 3-4 times.

People buying tgp templates at $100+ have been getting ripped off.

I guess "You get what you pay for" doesn't apply here.

:feels-hot

Why should designers, any more than content producers, software authors, car makers or clothing manufacturers, be exempt from the effects of globalisation? Even a good answer to that question isn't going to stop it happening.

The other thing I don't follow, is that if these guys do churn out rubbish which only no-hopers will buy, how are they f*cking anyone except those no-hopers? Surely they are only a threat to higher-priced designers if they are actually talented enough to tempt away their regular customers.

Point is taken. I hate it when I see real cheap templates (some even look the part. cheap). When I do try and get a deal going I get low balled for a cheap price so I end up not doing it.

i buy nice design:BangBang:

pricing is pretty simple thing

designers generate pricing on their work taking into account such factors as:

1. prices for living in their countries (someone who lives in philippines or former ussr needs less cash for good living then us citizens for example)

2. The amount of clients and work he have now - thats why we see all these discounts, buy 3 get one for free and all these things, when summer slowdown killing industry people need cash for living anyways, so better to have 1/2 of month cash then nothing
and again if such companies as webinc envisionext and so on
have big number of current clients that giving projects one after another for example Platinium bucks or trafficcashgold for webinc, company always have projects to complete, and if someone don't have clients for now, he can make the price less then usual to get new ones

3. also one of the main factors is whether people work alone or with managers art directors and so on
if people work alone , they take all the cash from projects so their prices is lower then prices of companies, because in 2nd case designers need to earn cash for directors and managers too

Nothing wrong with people outside the US making $10 galleries. In some countries they only make $250 USD a month.

Lot's of talented guys for hire :thumbsup The guy in my sig is great :glugglug

That will never happen less the traffic is crap AKA hitbot traffic

People can only undersell cause of labour cost :) Russian programmers rock :thumbsup

you right, man
low price - same quality, same convertions

It's not an issue of cost, it's an issue of outcome. I dont see the logic. The largest traffic acquirers have been making their money for many years with the same templates/promo. Personally I have spent not hundreds, but thousands to tweak each of my promo page. Traffic is money, I'll never send a hit to something if I'm not confident it will make me the most.

It's not just shitty designers that are slashing prices ....

http://gfyboard.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=328477

I agree

Indeed, and besides that most of the "cheaper" designers come and go.

As long as my clients are happy with my work and referrer me to their friends/partners/whatevers I am more than happy. I am having more than enough orders to have a decent living so I am not realy worried.

Btw, I know I am not the most expensive designer but I think my prices are pretty reasonable at least :)

Exactly.

I remember when QuaShe started, he was posting at AWI with very low prices and I thought "this guy won't last long". A couple months later, I noticed he was serious, his work improved and still had the same low prices. Then I thought: "now this guys is something to worry about". Fuck, he ever got quite a bunch of projects from former customers which made me lower prices. Now he gets work, I get work and those who cannot get to the competition scenario, well, their loss.

Now I know there are a few big design companies who are still there after some years, a few "medium sized" like QuaShe's, FDSign and Dickmans Design, and hundreds of little guys. From those hundreds, one hand is enough to count those who will survive. Some because they're not good, some because they're too pricy, some because they'll tired of this and some because they simply don't have what it takes. The few who improve, gets competitive and hang on this will make it. Hail to them :)