US Soldiers Should Watch This

[moeloubani]

Watch the whole thing and still tell me that what you guys are doing Iraq is anything other than murdering people - for no reason at all. All you are if you are a soldier that is still there fighting is a coward - you are too much of a coward to stand up to the other soldiers and tell them that you want out. That's why a bunch of guys on dirt bikes are winning a fight against stealth jets and million dollar missiles.

There is nothing dishonorable about being dishonorably discharged from the murderer club. Save your souls and the lives of innocent kids and leave the military and let the people of the world deal with their own problems.

Without YOU the soldiers, there would be no kids dying in Iraq like the kids in the video. Shame on all the soldiers, I hope that this holiday season their families shun them for being murderers just like they should.

Edit: Don't know how this turned into a message to the troops lol but pass it on if you know someone that's there lol

[BJ]

shut up you canadian biotch!

[Coup]

I LIT THAT FUCKER UP DUDE! HE GOT 30 ROUNDS IN THAT BITCH.

[Coup]

[BJ]

[Seth Manson]

Originally Posted by BJ

shut up you canadian biotch!

I concur ^^^

[theking]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Watch the whole thing and still tell me that what you guys are doing Iraq is anything other than murdering people - for no reason at all. All you are if you are a soldier that is still there fighting is a coward - you are too much of a coward to stand up to the other soldiers and tell them that you want out. That's why a bunch of guys on dirt bikes are winning a fight against stealth jets and million dollar missiles.

There is nothing dishonorable about being dishonorably discharged from the murderer club. Save your souls and the lives of innocent kids and leave the military and let the people of the world deal with their own problems.

Without YOU the soldiers, there would be no kids dying in Iraq like the kids in the video. Shame on all the soldiers, I hope that this holiday season their families shun them for being murderers just like they should.

Edit: Don't know how this turned into a message to the troops lol but pass it on if you know someone that's there lol

Collateral damage is nothing new in battle...it has and always will exist. Combat is messy. The crews on the gunships acted within the rules of engagement...end of story.

BTW...we do not any longer have combat troops in Iraq...the "guys on dirt bikes" lost...you apparently did not receive the memo.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

blah blah

Go fuck yourself

[bronco67]

I think you're mostly right, although we only see the bad stuff -- of course us being there in the first place is a giant mistake, so that's pretty bad. So I see where you're coming from, but you're still a giant asshole.

Did you ever stop to think that there's probably many soldiers like this guy in the video -- compassionate and trying to be as conscientious as possible, given the horrible conditions?

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by bronco67

I think you're mostly right, although we only see the bad stuff -- of course us being there in the first place is a giant mistake, so that's pretty bad. So I see where you're coming from, but you're still a giant asshole.

Did you ever stop to think that there's probably many soldiers like this guy in the video -- compassionate and trying to be as conscientious as possible, given the horrible conditions?

Yeah there is...they are the cowards that are afraid to leave the army because they want to look good to the guys around them.

theking you really think you guys won in Iraq? Tell that to the soldiers that are still there fighting every single day. Just because the news told you that non-combat troops are all that's left, I think the soldier who is in combat today in Iraq would say different.

LOL at American soldiers around the world - the biggest bully coward punk bitches that need to be brought home. You want your soldiers to fight like real men? Give them a real cause, none of this go over there and kill bullshit you guys are doing now. United States military + a cause = oh shit. United States military + no cause = shit.

You're still being beat by guys on dirt bikes in Afghanistan though, and even you can't deny that. Doesn't it make you ashamed that your country's best are having their asses kicked by another country's worst? That those brave soldiers with all of their weapons are still the ones who are terrified of the guys with primitive weapons? LOL at your soldiers theking, LOL!!

baddog it could just as easily be your grandchildren that are the ones dying, blood coming out of them and staining some military jacket. Are you ok with your grandchildren being murdered for no reason and then their murderer saying 'Oh well' to justify it? Great to see you care so much about babies being murdered.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

baddog it could just as easily be your grandchildren that are the ones dying, blood coming out of them and staining some military jacket. Are you ok with your grandchildren being murdered for no reason and then their murderer saying 'Oh well' to justify it? Great to see you care so much about babies being murdered.

We don't have a draft. Anyone there is there by choice.

[dyna mo]

your posting your diatribe here makes it pretty clear who the coward really is.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by baddog

We don't have a draft. Anyone there is there by choice.

Except the Iraqis who are people too, aren't they? What about the little kid?

You didn't answer me - what if your son/daughter was driving their kid somewhere and all of a sudden just got shot up and killed by some guy because he thought they were a danger to him. You'd be ok with that?

[sicone]

Hardcore keyboard warriors unite

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

your posting your diatribe here makes it pretty clear who the coward really is.

Not sure what you mean about that, where should I post it? Or what should I be doing? Way to use a good word but make 0 sense.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by sicone

Hardcore keyboard warriors unite

Keyboard warriors is all that is left, and right now the US is getting shit on hard by keyboard warrior Julian Assange.

Informing people is my way of fighting back - I can't take on the US in a physical fight.

Edit: Check out this link, looks like gay people have been in the military all along:

http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n50512143/

[baddog]

You are not informing anyone. However, I believe that my previously arrived at conclusion that you are some kind of pussy seems to be agreed on by some.

[sicone]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Keyboard warriors is all that is left, and right now the US is getting shit on hard by keyboard warrior Julian Assange.

Informing people is my way of fighting back - I can't take on the US in a physical fight.

Edit: Check out this link, looks like gay people have been in the military all along:

http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n50512143/

And why are you able to be a keyboard warrior?

Cuz soldiers from your your country gave their lives for you to have that right. Like the war or not you owe them a lot more then you think.

And btw, I have no issue with your views or you posting them, that whole freedom of speech thing is a double edged sword at times.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

I hope that this holiday

For some reason i don't picture Muhammed and Akbar sitting around the Christmas tree sipping eggnog this holiday season...

[dyna mo]

i'm tired of elitist shitheads who think their job is to inform others of their view on things.


grow some balls and go tell the people/soldiers/soldier's families to their face that you think they are all cowards.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by sicone

Cuz soldiers from your your country gave their lives for you to have that right. Like the war or not you owe them a lot more then you think.

We owe the soldiers who have fought for our freedom, and rightfully so. The soldiers of today aren't fighting for shit, but larger paychecks for corporate shareholders. They've done nothing to protect anyone. They're just slaughtering and being slaughtered in an offensive attack. If you think they are protecting your best interests by killing a bunch of rats in some desert on the other side of the world, you're an idiot. It's your own government you need to be worried about, not some fucking ragheads,..

[sicone]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

We owe the soldiers who have fought for our freedom, and rightfully so. The soldiers of today aren't fighting for shit, but larger paychecks for corporate shareholders. They've done nothing to protect anyone. They're just slaughtering and being slaughtered in an offensive attack. If you think they are protecting your best interests by killing a bunch of rats in some desert on the other side of the world, you're an idiot. It's your own government you need to be worried about, not some fucking ragheads,..

Personally, I don't think we should have stepped foot over there, this time of the 1st time. And you're right, I am worried a lot more by what the government is doing to its own people here then I am and middle eastern person

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by baddog

You are not informing anyone. However, I believe that my previously arrived at conclusion that you are some kind of pussy seems to be agreed on by some.

Oh great, lets get personal and not stick to the argument. Isn't that the first thing someone does when they know they are losing? Well done baddog, you called me a pussy. Such a great debater.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i'm tired of elitist shitheads who think their job is to inform others of their view on things.


grow some balls and go tell the people/soldiers/soldier's families to their face that you think they are all cowards.

I'd love to but Americans tend to not listen to reason and logic and instead prefer to use force to try to get their position across. Just like monkeys.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

I'd love to but Americans tend to not listen to reason and logic and instead prefer to use force to try to get their position across. Just like monkeys.

you are the last person who should be pointing his finger at others about that.

[TCLGirls]

The vast majority of US military are honorable people. It's too bad the horrible actions of a few taint the image of the honorable ones. But I also think the Military should be screening out the bad apples more diligently as well. I hear of too many stories of mentally unstable people being allowed into the Military.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by sicone

And why are you able to be a keyboard warrior?

Cuz soldiers from your your country gave their lives for you to have that right. Like the war or not you owe them a lot more then you think.

And btw, I have no issue with your views or you posting them, that whole freedom of speech thing is a double edged sword at times.

Hey man and I'm the first one to honor the soldiers who did die for us to really have those freedoms. That kind of sacrifice isn't lost on me - each and every one of those men and women was a hero to me. The idea that these guys went there knowing that they could die but doing it anyways because they knew what they were fighting for was right gives me goosebumps. I ask myself if I could do it and I really don't know and I hope I never have to know. I'm thankful for that freedom each and every day from when I get up to when I go to bed. I couldn't possibly think of living somewhere where my ideas/thoughts/comments were suppressed; it would be horrible.

But that doesn't mean that the respect I give to those guys is automatically given to any soldier. Because the ones out there right now are fighting for nothing, no one knows what they are fighting for, anyone who says it's because of 9/11 is an idiot because who they are fighting now has nothing to do with that. The WMD thing was a farce. These guys are literally there right now murdering people, killing families, little kids, teachers, moms, dads, grandmas. These aren't lemmings or rats, they are people. Imagine the fear you would have if you thought any day you walked outside out of nowhere bullets would rain down and kill you. That's why I am so outspoken against what they are doing now. And the soldier of today knows fully well whats happening, it is 2011 (almost) and information is not hard to come by.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Keyboard warriors is all that is left

Sad, but pretty much true.

Your only other option is to load a truck full of nitrate fertilizer and blow up some government building, which will immediately have you branded a terrorist yourself. Guerrilla warfare is the only way to fight the beast as it stands now. For the average person, the freedom of speech afforded by the internet is the only way to be heard at this point.

You can't stand up to the forces driving this shit face to face, they have too much power. What are you going to do, take your opinions into the political arena and fight them there? you don't stand a fucking chance. The division of power between the rulers and the people has NEVER in history been as lopsided as it is now.

The way things are starting to look, it's only a matter of time before you can be prosecuted in America for your thought crimes, for the protection of the people of course. Everybody will eat that line up, they need protection from big bad Osama right?

The one thing that just does not make any fucking sense to me is how stupid the fucking American people can be. Even facing the loss of liberty, even watching their economy stumble, as their country wastes off tax dollars supporting big business's best interests, they will still wave their flags and sing the star spangled banner, all in support the bullshit system that is slowly imprisoning them.

And now the joyous arm of American protection is forcing it's way into our country, where it is not wanted, happily ushered that retard Harper, who gladly bends over for the US at every request.

The only thing I can suggest to you is buy a gun, buy lots of guns, learnt he art of improvised munitions, learn survival and evasion tactics, fortify a compound, and get ready to kill anything from below the 49th parallel when the time comes. One day the world will have to come together to subdue the beast, and when we do, we will bath victoriously in the blood of the American infidels. I can only hope we get the chance to rape a few wives and kill a few of their children in the process...

[baddog]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Oh great, lets get personal and not stick to the argument. Isn't that the first thing someone does when they know they are losing? Well done baddog, you called me a pussy. Such a great debater.

I am feeling too good to ruin it by debating with you. Nothing too personal, I don't feel like debating anything right now. Maybe tomorrow. I still think you are a pussy. I thought it long before this thread.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Sad, but pretty much true.

hardly.

come on, you're smarter than that, or you used to be, prior to your recent aggro attitude.

you are really saying it's true that the only answer is to come to gfy and go off calling soldiers cowards in a hate filled spew post? that's a solution? right.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by TCLGirls

The vast majority of US military are honorable people.

ROFL, there's nothing honorable about todays military. NOTHING. if they were honorable people they would do some honorable shit. Like lay down their arms and refuse to engage in these murderous imperial conquests.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

no one knows what they are fighting for, anyone who says it's because of 9/11 is an idiot because who they are fighting now has nothing to do with that.

Actually it's pretty well documented what America fights for these days. Corporate interest. To keep business booming you need to be able to expand. To expand, you need a new market. The market for multi-billion dollar infrastructure contracts is running low on American soil. The simple solution for these large contractors is to go overseas, but not everyone wants to have American companies come in and rebuild their country putting them into a huge debt. So the government takes taxpayer dollars, and uses them to open up these new market spaces by way of military force. If you can't manage to weasel your way into the foreign government and buy them out, you blow the fuck out of them and get in that way. Then you award all the contracts to rebuild the country in westernized fashion to American companies. No one get's into politics for the hell of it, they're all business men. From your municipal board, to the top of the federal government the vast majority have something to gain. They get into politics to work in favor of their own business interests, not the betterment of their people. At least very few politicians that is.

If the US government spent half the money it spends blowing up sandmonkeys on bettering the lives of it's own people, on it's own soil, the American people might have something they could legitimately be proud of. I can't see what part of the American image is to be proud of at the moment.

[theking]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Yeah there is...they are the cowards that are afraid to leave the army because they want to look good to the guys around them.

theking you really think you guys won in Iraq? Tell that to the soldiers that are still there fighting every single day. Just because the news told you that non-combat troops are all that's left, I think the soldier who is in combat today in Iraq would say different.

LOL at American soldiers around the world - the biggest bully coward punk bitches that need to be brought home. You want your soldiers to fight like real men? Give them a real cause, none of this go over there and kill bullshit you guys are doing now. United States military + a cause = oh shit. United States military + no cause = shit.

You're still being beat by guys on dirt bikes in Afghanistan though, and even you can't deny that. Doesn't it make you ashamed that your country's best are having their asses kicked by another country's worst? That those brave soldiers with all of their weapons are still the ones who are terrified of the guys with primitive weapons? LOL at your soldiers theking, LOL!!

baddog it could just as easily be your grandchildren that are the ones dying, blood coming out of them and staining some military jacket. Are you ok with your grandchildren being murdered for no reason and then their murderer saying 'Oh well' to justify it? Great to see you care so much about babies being murdered.

The Iraqi Army is engaging in combat in Iraq...not U.S. Combat forces. Combat forces were removed from Iraq. The remaining troops are support troops that have various roles to play...but that is not to say that they are not fired upon from time to time...or not blown up occasionally by an IED. Engaging in fire fights has not been the number one cause of casualties in Iraq...but IED's have been the number one cause of casualties.

You have a vivid imagination if you think..for even one second...that we are "being beat by guys on dirt bikes in Afghanistan"...or that our "country's best are having their asses kicked".

You...to put it simply...are not a very informed person...now are you?

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

hardly.

come on, you're smarter than that, or you used to be, prior to your recent aggro attitude.

you are really saying it's true that the only answer is to come to gfy and go off calling soldiers cowards in a hate filled spew post? that's a solution? right.

What do you suggest? Get into politics and try to change it from the inside? The system would eat you alive.

Arm yourself and try to take them down by force? That's laughable.

For most people the only option they have is to keep spouting their message, over and over and over again through whatever medium is available to them. In hopes that they can change the opinion of a few people, and in hopes that those people in turn can go on to change the opinion of a few more.

Not everyone has a publishing company backing them, or a prime time television time slot to voice these opinions. So for the average person, yes, rambling on the internet is about all that is left...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

What do you suggest? Get into politics and try to change it from the inside? The system would eat you alive.

Arm yourself and try to take them down by force? That's laughable.

For most people the only option they have is to keep spouting their message, over and over and over again through whatever medium is available to them. In hopes that they can change the opinion of a few people, and in hopes that those people in turn can go on to change the opinion of a few more.

Not everyone has a publishing company backing them, or a prime time television time slot to voice these opinions. So for the average person, yes, rambling on the internet is about all that is left...

gear down. what would i suggest? that's not my forte. i don't feel the need to run around and get everybody else to see things the same as i do/agree with me.

[theking]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

gear down. what would i suggest? that's not my forte. i don't feel the need to run around and get everybody else to see things the same as i do/agree with me.

It is apparent that malcontents...mental midgets...and losers do feel the need.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by theking

It is apparent that malcontents...mental midgets...and losers do feel the need.

god bless pathfinder....

keep waving that flag hoss, it doesn't give a flying fuck about you...

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by theking

The Iraqi Army is engaging in combat in Iraq...not U.S. Combat forces. Combat forces were removed from Iraq. The remaining troops are support troops that have various roles to play...but that is not to say that they are not fired upon from time to time...or not blown up occasionally by an IED. Engaging in fire fights has not been the number one cause of casualties in Iraq...but IED's have been the number one cause of casualties.

You have a vivid imagination if you think..for even one second...that we are "being beat by guys on dirt bikes in Afghanistan"...or that our "country's best are having their asses kicked".

You...to put it simply...are not a very informed person...now are you?

Simply put the Afghanis have been putting up a fight for about 10 years now and they have pretty much no weapons save for a few RPGs and AK-47s provided by who else than the US themselves years ago.

The United States has literally the most powerful military in the world, yet they can't seem to control these guys on their dirt bikes.

If I see a giant fighting an ant, and the fight has been going on for 10 years and the giant is considering just leaving, then I say that the ant just kicked that giant's ass.

Sorry to say it theking but you guys are losing to a bunch of guys on dirt bikes. If anyone between us two is misinformed it is you - and the majority of the people on this board and everywhere else would agree with me.

I extend you an offer to switch sides and fight for what's right.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

gear down. what would i suggest? that's not my forte. i don't feel the need to run around and get everybody else to see things the same as i do/agree with me.

But

Originally Posted by dyna mo

your posting your diatribe here makes it pretty clear who the coward really is.

Originally Posted by dyna mo

hardly.

come on, you're smarter than that, or you used to be, prior to your recent aggro attitude.

you are really saying it's true that the only answer is to come to gfy and go off calling soldiers cowards in a hate filled spew post? that's a solution? right.

You seem to be doing a lot of running around trying to get people to see things the way you do in this thread. Way to be a hypocrite.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by theking

It is apparent that malcontents...mental midgets...and losers do feel the need.

Did you really fake your own death...on a message board?

[dyna mo]

ok ok, i get it, you realize afghanistan is a quaqmire. guys on dirtbikes, ok ok, fuck. i don't need you to inform me of that, fyi, i said that to my friends from the beginning, 8+ fucking years ago. fucking whoopie. russians got drug into there and came out losers, i knew we would too.

i also don't need you to tell me war is murder. fyi, ALL wars are murder. period. the end. i've known that since before fucking college. every war up to the era of smart weapons included TARGETING civilians, the u.s. doesn't have a monoply on that and we certainly did not event it. look up guernica, look up dresden, look up any war throughout time. civilians were murdered. create fear, destroy the will of the people. that's the goal. fuck. you act like just because you are just now figuring that out that it's new and no one else knows about it.

wrong.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

But






You seem to be doing a lot of running around trying to get people to see things the way you do in this thread. Way to be a hypocrite.

none of that is me trying to get anyone to agree with me or see things the way i see them. that's me stating my view, you = fucking dense as a rock.

and a fucking coward.

[dyna mo]

anyhoo, i'm hitting the hay. thanks for the big revelation that war is murder, wow, had no fucking idea.

[Rangermoore]

All you have is is your opinion. If you have not been there then you have no idea what is truly going on. I was in iraq in 2004, 2005, 2006, As well as Afghanistan in 2007, 2009. I still do the occasional contract job in those despicable countries. I don't give it a second thought about anyone I have killed, shot, or maimed. I sleep very well and yes I can look myself in the mirror just fine. If I may borrow a line from blackhawk down "It's all about the man next to you, that's all it is"

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by Rangermoore

All you have is is your opinion. If you have not been there then you have no idea what is truly going on. I was in iraq in 2004, 2005, 2006, As well as Afghanistan in 2007, 2009. I still do the occasional contract job in those despicable countries. I don't give it a second thought about anyone I have killed, shot, or maimed. I sleep very well and yes I can look myself in the mirror just fine. If I may borrow a line from blackhawk down "It's all about the man next to you, that's all it is"

And I'm sure there are rapists out there that sleep perfectly well too. You think Bin Laden has any problems sleeping or looking at himself in the mirror? What about Hitler (aside from him being dead)? Just because you 'think' what you're doing is ok you need to look at what the rest of the world thinks of you to get a real idea.

The reason you guys are losing is because its NOT about the man next to you but about the cause you are fighting for. Are you not embarrassed that with all your guns and technology you guys take decades to fight people with the most basic weapons? I'd be embarrassed of every single guy around me while I was fighting if I was was you!

Dynamo I'm just stating my point too. Thanks for bringing out the personal attacks, it makes me know that I've won the argument. Good night!

Edit: Now you are admitting the soldiers are murderers? Welcome to my side buddy!!

[theking]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Simply put the Afghanis have been putting up a fight for about 10 years now and they have pretty much no weapons save for a few RPGs and AK-47s provided by who else than the US themselves years ago.

The United States has literally the most powerful military in the world, yet they can't seem to control these guys on their dirt bikes.

If I see a giant fighting an ant, and the fight has been going on for 10 years and the giant is considering just leaving, then I say that the ant just kicked that giant's ass.

Sorry to say it theking but you guys are losing to a bunch of guys on dirt bikes. If anyone between us two is misinformed it is you - and the majority of the people on this board and everywhere else would agree with me.

I extend you an offer to switch sides and fight for what's right.

The reason the fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for years is for the very same reason the conflict in Vietnam went on for years. Our politicians allow safe haven for our enemy.

We overthrew the Taliban government and drove out Osama's forces in a matter of weeks...but ever since we have allowed them safe haven in Pakistan.

They enter Afghanistan via Pakistan...and when we engage them and decimate them...they retreat back into Pakistan...tend to their wounded...rest...recruit...rearm and retrain...then reenter into Afghanistan again.

This is why I...long ago...said that our Politicians are doing the same identical thing they did in Vietnam...micro managing the conflict and not allowing the military to conduct the fight as it should be conducted...thus we should withdraw our forces.

If one does not cut off safe havens and supply routes...the killing will continue for a prolonged...indefinite period of time...with out a predictable end. Or with a very predictable end...the American public growing tired of the conflict will eventually take to the streets by the millions...as they did during the Vietnam conflict and demand an end.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by theking

The reason the fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for years is for the very same reason the conflict in Vietnam went on for years. Our politicians allow safe haven for our enemy.

We overthrew the Taliban government and drove out Osama's forces in a matter of weeks...but ever since we have allowed them safe haven in Pakistan.

They enter Afghanistan via Pakistan...and when we engage them and decimate them...they retreat back into Pakistan...tend to their wounded...rest...recruit...rearm and retrain...then reenter into Afghanistan again.

This is why I...long ago...said that our Politicians are doing the same identical thing they did in Vietnam...micro managing the conflict and not allowing the military to conduct the fight as it should be conducted...thus we should withdraw our forces.

If one does not cut off safe havens and supply routes...the killing will continue for a prolonged...indefinite period of time...with out a predictable end. Or with a very predictable end...the American public growing tired of the conflict will eventually take to the streets by the millions...as they did during the Vietnam conflict and demand an end.

And the outcome of Vietnam was? You lost. Q.E.D.

Good night sir.

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by moeloubani

And I'm sure there are rapists out there that sleep perfectly well too.

The reason you guys are losing is because its NOT about the man next to you but about the cause you are fighting for. Are you not embarrassed that with all your guns and technology you guys take decades to fight people with the most basic weapons? I'd be embarrassed of every single guy around me while I was fighting if I was was you!

Dynamo I'm just stating my point too. Thanks for bringing out the personal attacks, it makes me know that I've won the argument. Good night!

I wouldn't say they've lost in Afghanistan/Iraq at all... Win/lose isn't as clearly defined as one side waving the white flag and tapping out.

Post-War Contractors Ranked by Total Contract Value in Iraq and Afghanistan
From 2002 through July 1, 2004

Kellogg, Brown & Root $11,431,000,000
Parsons Corp. $5,286,136,252
Fluor Corp. $3,754,964,295
Washington Group International $3,133,078,193
Shaw Group/Shaw E & I $3,050,749,910
Bechtel Group Inc. $2,829,833,859
Perini Corporation $2,525,000,000
Contrack International Inc. $2,325,000,000
Tetra Tech nc. $1,541,947,671
USA Environmental Inc. $1,541,947,671
CH2M Hill $1,528,500,000
American International Contractors, Inc. $1,500,000,000
Odebrect-Austin $1,500,000,000
Zapata Engineering $1,478,838,958
Environmental Chemical Corporation $1,475,000,000
Explosive Ordnance Technologies Inc. $1,475,000,000
Stanley Baker Hill L.L.C. $1,200,000,000
International American Products Inc. $628,421,252
Research Triangle Institute $466,070,508
Titan Corporation $402,000,000
Louis Berger Group $327,671,364
BearingPoint Inc. $304,262,668
Creative Associates International Inc. $273,539,368
Readiness Management Support LC (Johnson Controls Inc.) $214,757,447
Chemonics International Inc. $167,759,000
Harris Corporation $165,000,000
Science Applications International Corp. $159,304,219
DynCorp (Computer Sciences Corp.) $93,689,421
Raytheon Aerospace LLC $91,096,464
Lucent Technologies World Services, Inc. $75,000,000
EOD Technology Inc. $71,900,000
NANA Pacific $70,000,000
CACI International Inc. $66,221,143
Earth Tech, Inc. $65,449,155
Development Alternatives Inc. $49,117,857
Vinnell Corporation (Northrop Grumman) $48,074,442
Abt Associates Inc. $43,818,278
Parsons Energy and Chemicals Group $43,361,340
International Resources Group $39,230,000
Management Systems International $29,816,328
SkyLink Air and Logistic Support (USA) Inc. $27,200,000
Ronco Consulting Corporation $26,131,923
AECOM $21,610,501
Blackwater Security Consulting L.L.C. $21,331,693
World Fuel Services Corp. $19,762,792
Laguna Construction Company, Inc. $19,536,683
Weston Solutions, Inc $16,279,724
Motorola Inc. $15,591,732
Stevedoring Services of America $14,318,895
Miscellaneous Foreign Contract $13,489,810
Raytheon Technical Services $12,412,573
Kropp Holdings $11,880,000
Military Professional Resources Inc. $11,433,491
General Electric Company $8,525,498
Foster Wheeler Co. $8,416,985
Inglett and Stubbs LLC $8,175,245
Stanley Consultants $7,709,767
Liberty Shipping Group Ltd. $7,300,000
TECO Ocean Shipping Co. $7,200,000
University of Nebraska at Omaha $7,072,468
PAE Government Services Inc. $7,007,158
Anteon International Corporation $6,800,000
Michael Baker Jr., Inc. $5,999,566
Detection Monitoring Technologies $5,584,482
American President Lines Ltd. $5,000,000
Ocean Bulkships Inc. $5,000,000
S&K Technologies Inc. $4,950,385
Signature Science $4,704,464
United Defense Industries, L.P. $4,500,000
Simmonds Precision Products $4,412,488
AllWorld Language Consultants $4,051,349
Sealift Inc. $4,000,000
MZM Inc. $3,640,896
SETA Corporation $3,165,765
Chugach McKinley, Inc. $3,068,407
Diplomat Freight Services Inc. $2,604,276
Federal Data Corporation $1,991,770
Stratex Freedom Services $1,978,175
Social Impact Inc. $1,875,000
Global Container Lines Ltd. $1,850,000
Midwest Research Institute $1,765,000
Camp Dresser & McKee Inc. $1,700,000
Cellhire USA $1,465,983
J & B Truck Repair Service $1,353,477
Artel $1,254,902
Structural Engineers $1,113,000
Dataline Inc. $1,028,851
Red River Computer Company $972,592
Global Services $910,468
AOS, Inc. $866,988
McNeil Technologies, Inc. $716,651
DHS Logistics Company $601,497
Global Professional Solutions $590,232
Dell Marketing L.P. $513,678
Unisys Corporation $435,000
Tryco Inc. $400,000
Sodexho Inc. $324,120
Segovia Inc. $320,636
Force $274,651
Baldino, George F. $263,000
Advanced Systems Development, Inc. $259,959
Triumph Technologies $228,924
Nuttall, James S. $187,000
Alexander, Deborah Lynn $168,625
International Global Systems, Inc. $157,383
Night Vision Equipment Company $153,118
Reabold, Miguel (Michael) $136,603
Native American Industrial Distributors Inc. $123,572
Ward Transformer Sales & Services $115,000
EGL Eagle Global Logistics $111,000
Young, Brian $106,150
Paro, Amy K. $94,457
Tekontrol, Inc. $85,146
Sampler, Donald L. $81,000
Giesecke & Devrient America $72,700
GTSI Corp $70,220
Expedited World Cargo Inc. $55,004
Lab Safety Supply $53,379
LandSea Systems, Inc. $47,750
Comfort Inn $47,324
Cartridge Discounters $40,492
Bald Industries $35,734
CDW Government, Inc. $35,174
S&C Electric Company $34,800
John S. Connor Inc. $34,153
Outfitter Satellite, Inc. $33,203
Logenix International L.L.C. $29,000
Landstar Express America Inc. $24,396
Redcom Laboratories $24,375
Export Depot $21,182
Intelligent Enterprise Solutions $19,835
GPS Store, Inc., The $19,761
Transfair North America International $19,351
Atlas Case, Inc. $17,243
Mediterranean Shipping Company $13,000
Capital Shredder Corporation $11,803
Bea Mauer, Inc. $9,920
SPARCO $9,215
Electric Generator Store, The $6,974
Cybex International $4,838
Total Business $4,696
Hardware Associates $4,304
Staples National Advantage $4,194
EHI Company $3,956
JSI Inc. $3,376
Complement, Inc., The $3,358
MEI Research Corporation $3,276
WECSYS $3,040
Smith Office Machines Corporation $2,961

Note that the number 1 on the list Kellogg Brown & Root is a subsidiary of Halliburton. Hell, That list is 6 years behind the times now. Those seem like losing numbers to you? I guess determining the win/lose status depends entirely on what the addresor's original intent was...

Just for shits and giggles, look over the top 10 in that list on awarded contracts and compare them with this one regarding contractor campaign contributions in the 12 years leading up to 2002, the beginning of the contract list...

Campaign Contributions of Post-war Contractors
From 1990 through fiscal year 2002

General Electric Company $8,843,884
Vinnell Corporation (Northrop Grumman) $8,517,247
BearingPoint Inc. $4,949,139
Science Applications International Corp. $4,704,909
Fluor Corp. $3,624,173
Bechtel Group Inc. $3,310,102
Kellogg, Brown & Root (Halliburton) $2,379,792
American President Lines Ltd. $2,185,303
Dell Marketing L.P. $1,774,971
Parsons Corp. $1,403,508

Recognize any names there? 4 of the top 10 contributors can be found in the list of 10 largest Afghan/Iraq contracts awarded since 2002. Parsons, Fluor, and KBR, the top 3 largest contract holders between 2002-2004 were in the top 10 campaign contributors in the decade leading up to those years. Coincidence?

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Originally Posted by theking

The reason the fighting in Afghanistan has been going on for years is for the very same reason the conflict in Vietnam went on for years. Our politicians allow safe haven for our enemy.

We overthrew the Taliban government and drove out Osama's forces in a matter of weeks...but ever since we have allowed them safe haven in Pakistan.

They enter Afghanistan via Pakistan...and when we engage them and decimate them...they retreat back into Pakistan...tend to their wounded...rest...recruit...rearm and retrain...then reenter into Afghanistan again.

This is why I...long ago...said that our Politicians are doing the same identical thing they did in Vietnam...micro managing the conflict and not allowing the military to conduct the fight as it should be conducted...thus we should withdraw our forces.

If one does not cut off safe havens and supply routes...the killing will continue for a prolonged...indefinite period of time...with out a predictable end. Or with a very predictable end...the American public growing tired of the conflict will eventually take to the streets by the millions...as they did during the Vietnam conflict and demand an end.

This is all theorizing that they actually want to "win" and get out.

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I wouldn't say they've lost in Afghanistan/Iraq at all... Win/lose isn't as clearly defined as one side waving the white flag and tapping out.

But if you were a Taliban aren't you just trying to make them leave your country? So if the US leaves Afghanistan the Taliban win. That's just how I saw it but I see your point.