u-Bob

If 100 different people all start with $100 each, some will go to a bar and have couple of drinks, some will save it, some will use it to buy presents for their wives and children, some will invest it in the latest hot widget, some will use to start their own company,... everybody's different, we all have different goals and desires and we all spend our money differently.

If you come back 10 years later, some of those 100 people will be poor, some will still be doing what they were doing 10 years ago, some will have found love, some will have died of cancer, some will be really good at whatever it is they love doing, some will be eternal fuckups, some will have been robbed, some will have gambled and lost, some will have gambled and won, some will have invested wisely and still lost, others will have invested wisely and won, some will have worked hard, some will have pissed everything away the second they got it, some will have been lucky, some will have been in 6 different car accidents, some will have worked hard, some will have worked hard and smart... some will be poor, some will be millionaires...

I agree that most millionaires these days have become rich using unethical practices. By using aggression. However, there is nothing wrong with being rich while others are poor if your riches were earned through voluntary transactions.

Every human is free to do whatever he wants with his body and property as long as he doesn't cause damage to another human or his property.

So every human is free to use, sell, trade, abandon, give away his property. And every human will do this in a different way, because every human is different. And because every human is different, there will be differences between how people live their lives and whether or not they succeed in business.

To quote Rothbard:
The diversity of mankind is a basic postulate of our knowledge of human beings. But if mankind is diverse and individuated, then how can anyone propose equality as an ideal? Every year, scholars hold Conferences on Equality and call for greater equality, and no one challenges the basic tenet. But what justification can equality find in the nature of man? If each individual is unique, how else can he be made 'equal' to others than by destroying most of what is human in him and reducing human society to the mindless uniformity of the ant heap?
-Murray N. Rothbard

TheDoc

"he is just getting out life what he put into it..."

Exactly... HE is only focused on HIS life..

When society gave him the ability to reach that life. The best ideas in the world mean nothing, if you don't live in a society that can help those ideas grow.

Everyone, from poor to rich, from the day this Country was started, help create a foundation by helping provide for each other. However, todays rich/wealthy EXPECT more and take more. They ignore everything that allowed them to have the life they do and they blame/cry over the exact same system that allowed them to create what they did.

Doesn't each person deserve the true same/equal education, life, possible chance to get or even have those brilliant ideas? Rather than it all being locked up to 1% of the population, because "it appears" someone works harder simply because they have a chance to?

I can promise you this... no rich man works harder, gives up more, has a harder life than the poor person fighting with everything they have to crawl from the pits of hell just to see a hint of light.

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woj

That's the central idea of capitalism, everyone pursues his/her own goals...
you make it sound like there is something wrong with that?

and sure society did give him ability to purse his goals, but others had exactly the same options as him... so why should those that chose less ambitious path in life be treated differently? (different tax rates, welfare, tax credits, etc)

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tony286

Well said Doc and very true

wehateporn

The richest 10% have almost all the money now. They keep their millions/billions in bank accounts that make their money grow, making them even richer. The rest of us live in debt, paying interest on our debt. Some would say the rules of this game are not fair, others would critisize those who are not as good at playing the game. Ultimately though, however you view it, if eventually the richest 10% have all the money, society will collapse. We need to keep on doing a Robin Hood to counter the laws of banking. Of course the poor quickly spend any money they have and it ends up back with the CEO's anyway, so they shouldn't be too bothered

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wehateporn

Is a millionaire who runs a hedgefund the kind of person who deserves to be living in luxury after what they've done? Those who instigate wars that they then profit from? Drug companies selling products which they know are contaminated with HIV, but they put profit first so continue to sell. (See Bayer). Even CEO's who plan to deliberately have products designed such that they break sooner so as they have to be replaced. Monsanto releasing Terminator Seeds so as farmers have to buy more seeds from them.

This is the Dirty side of Capitalism. It's becoming harder for the good guys to compete with the companies who profit from such dirty tactics. Better regulation is obviously needed, but not the kind of corrupt regulation that we get from the FDA

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TheDoc

It's good if you don't forget the foundation that capitalism is built upon.. It's bad, if you ignore everything that helped us all along the way.

Not everyone has the same options, not everyone has the same choice, let alone a less ambitious path to make. A child growing up in a family does not choose to grow up in a lower income area with teachers that don't care, half the schooling conditions, half the care all around, growing up in fear...

I don't think the poor person should have the life style of the rich... they didn't earn it. But I do think they deserve "true equal" options to reach that life style, and everyone should contribute to help ensure everyone truly has the same equal ability to reach those levels.

It will never be perfect, but everyone truly has has the ability to do do great things, and given that equal chance, more would do great things. Greed holds us back...

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TheDoc

If I invest a million dollars in CD's let's say... I earn interest, simply because I'm rich enough to make such an investment, I earn money and never did anything to help society, produce anything, hire anyone. When the middle class person takes a loan, that persons interest payments, go directly to my pocket - for doing nothing. This person is buying something, helping society grow and is penalized - while I, the rich person, do nothing, produce nothing, get paid to sit on my ass and suck society dry.

That's TRULY how the rich get richer... It's not about capitalism. It's off the back of the working class that are the ones "really" producing the wealth - but are forgotten about, tossed aside as not worthy..

It's sad.

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woj

before you can invest that million you had to earn it first, no? It's a common myth that millionaires inherit the money and just sit on their asses the whole day doing nothing... but that's actually not the case, most millionaires today are actually self-made... they spent their lifetime earning that money, doing productive work just like everyone else...

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GatorB

INCOME taxes. Even a guy working at minimum wage pays FICA taxes and sales taxes. If he smokes or drinks he pays SIN taxes. If he has a car when he buys gas he pays gas taxes. So to say poor people don't pay "taxes" is disingenuous. All his utilities have taxes on them. Some like your phone have several taxes and "fees"( fancy word for TAX ) on them.

TheDoc

That's the point... if they were to continue to give back, like they did when the wealth was being built, it would be a different story. That's exactly what the issue is today.... they aren't producing anymore at that point, it's not good for our future.

Woj, you and me, nobody here is rich enough to fall into these categories. We create our own wealth, invest it in various ways, help society in various ways, and do what we can to make as much as we can.

Another group, produces wealth a completely different way. They don't produce a product, they don't help society, but they do use it - they use the people, and they give back far less than they take.

This is the idea that Warren Buffett is pushing. Society, people, etc gave him the opportunity to create his wealth, and he knows this. This is why he is trying to get other supper wealthy people and himself to give so much back.

He knows they must give back or the system will fail... fail to a level that our kids/kids can't create even what we have today. It has to give back but it has gotten so big that a group don't have go give/create/produce anything, to make themselves silly rich.

I'm all for a capitalist society... but it has to be balanced, the top few percent can't suck everything out the system and not give back - it will fail if it continues.

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