Could porn of really survived the Internet?

[Paul Markham]

Porn will never die, just not be as profitable as it was. Earnings will shrink and shrink until it's a shadow of what it used to be.

However I wonder if the porn would of survived the Internet or was the shrinking inevitable?

What cold of turned it around or stopped happening what did happen?

Prior to the Internet the entry level was high. Getting a magazine printed and distributed stopped most from trying. Even Video needed a huge run of duplications to bring down the price. 500 copies was an expensive run and then with the box covers, boxes and selling the title to the shops it was out of most peoples reach. Some like me sold to magazine and Video publishers, but the bar was generally high.

The Internet changed all that. Suddenly anyone with a minimum knowledge of how to create a site and put it up could be a porn publisher. They could steal, shoot or buy content, build a site, host it and there it was. They were porn publishers.

So 1,000s got into the game where there were 100s. And all of a sudden the only problem was finding enough people to buy from their site and not one of the 1,000s of other sites was the only problem to making the site profitable.

When BW costs started to fall the only factor, other than content, that did cost money before a sign was made. Made opening sites free or paid easier.

When speeds increased and BW fell to what it is today the dye was cast. Piracy didn't help, but Manwin and others can afford to give away legal porn to get a sale on penis pills or a few on their sites to pay the cost of free porn.

Now for those who say porn earnings are greater than they have ever been. Prove it. Don't just point to one or two companies. Prove retail sales of porn today are bigger than they used to be. A Porn video used to sell for $30 a magazine for $10. The turnover of Wicked, Private or Hustler was the turn over of the production side of the business.

[Paul Markham]

I think a lot more are in the porn business today than used to be, if you count affiliates it must run into the 10,000 if not 100,000s. Then all the Ma & Pa operations with sites. It has to be more than those who use to be in porn, unless you count the 100,000s of shops around the world selling a Playboy to an Amateur Home Grown movie.

Were all the newsagents selling Playboy in porn? Not really, they sold it along with the daily paper and confectionery. Even though they generated a huge income for the porn industry for them it was only part of their business.

Could all the new comers to direct porn selling porn markets generate the huge profits needed to sustain earnings all round. Or where earnings all round shared out of the same amount?

Some think the Online porn industry generated millions of new revenue. They point to new markets. Well traffic and sign up figures show the truth. The income came from countries that were already buying porn.

Were people who were unable to buy porn in their State, or just had a few titles, suddenly buying porn is vast quantities? That's illogical. People with an interest in a product like porn would of bought it where ever they were to the strength available. By under the counter, mail order or driving to where they could buy it. And people without enough interest to have a minimal quantity of porn haven't developed their porn tastes to start going out and buying loads.

The idea of these people opening sites is laughable. They hardly know the product, hardly know what they like, know what is good and not the best people to shoot porn. Brazzers and Mofos, along with a lot of other sites are still run by these people and content shot by them. They have so many basic mistakes it's obvious to anyone, including customers, that it's not very good.

A huge amount of revenue that used to be spent offline was now spent online. Because it was easier, because it was cheaper and a lot was not spent. Because it was free.

If you can only see your bank account ad listen to all the other bros telling how they're making millions. Then it's hard to imagine that a lot was coming from elsewhere. People believed they were doing something unique, different and ground breaking.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Could porn of really survived the Internet?

I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but OF? Do you mean HAVE?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but OF? Do you mean HAVE?

Yes, you do............... now just admit it

[V_RocKs]

Porn made the Internet what it is today.

[ottopottomouse]

It's déjà vu all over again.

[Barefootsies]

Porn will always be profitable grasshopper.

You simply need to change the business model and delivery method. Simple as that.

[lagcam]

I bet Mrs Markham is glad the internet came along.

Imagine how she would feel if she was the only audience for this broken record.....

[zeuse]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I bet Mrs Markham is glad the internet came along.

Imagine how she would feel if she was the only audience for this broken record.....

Did you click on a blind link or did you know it was a Paul Parkham thread?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by lagcam

I bet Mrs Markham is glad the internet came along.

Imagine how she would feel if she was the only audience for this broken record.....

[B.Barnato]

what is wrong with you?

what in your brain cause this crap to spasm out on to keyboard?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but OF? Do you mean HAVE?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by zeuse

Did you click on a blind link or did you know it was a Paul Parkham thread?

do you think a Paul Markham thread will gain the notoriety of say a line like 'jumping the shark'?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Porn made the Internet what it is today.

Yes a place to get things for free.

And the Internet made porn what it is today. A place for Ma & Pa operators to kid themselves they're big players.

Other abuse from trolls who has a point?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by GatorB

I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but OF? Do you mean HAVE?

You've really lost your mind if you have BFT3K correcting your grammar.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Porn will always be profitable grasshopper.

You simply need to change the business model and delivery method. Simple as that.

Yes, I never said it wouldn't. It's just that the profit will be less and less. Maybe a few 1 man bands like you churning out cheap fetish porn will make a pert time living. And a few sites like Pornhub will continue to profit from giving it away and selling ad space.

For the vast majority the good days are over. Now it's the not so good days. Some will look back on them with fondness.

While working at something else.

Rather than post empty statements, post what the profit will be and why, post what business model people should change to and the delivery method. Maybe mobile porn will save us. Maybe, pornhub will be giving away mobile phone porn from their websites. Download it free to your phone and look at the adverts included in the clip and on our download page.

No adverting like that could never effect mobile porn sales.

I thought the Internet was going to be the greatest thing ever to hit porn, which was why I came into it in 1995. 15 years later it's obvious it wasn't.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Maybe a few 1 man bands like you churning out cheap fetish porn will make a pert time living. And a few sites like Pornhub will continue to profit from giving it away and selling ad space.

If you truly understood the fetish niche, you would know 'my people' will ALWAYS pay for what hits the spot. However, you have to know that niche through and through for it to convert and retain.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

For the vast majority the good days are over. Now it's the not so good days. Some will look back on them with fondness.

The only thing 'dying' is the mainstream porn, and the glut of free.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Rather than post empty statements, post what the profit will be and why, post what business model people should change to and the delivery method. Maybe mobile porn will save us.

Even if I had all of the answers, I would not be sharing them for free with my competition.

I will simply say that content still has value, and other ways to monetize it beyond the traditional pay site methods. There are plenty of mobile, social and other applications that will make you money using your old porn libraries beyond tube sites.

I'll leave you to it.

[webair]

Edit/Spelling And Grammar/Check Document NOW!!!!

[zeuse]

Originally Posted by bm bradley

do you think a Paul Markham thread will gain the notoriety of say a line like 'jumping the shark'?

I dunno, I don't analize posts so that I can trip the OP' up.

[BlackCrayon]

no matter the current trends of piracy, the internet instantly created millions more *possible* porn consumers than there ever was or will be.

[Nathan]

Paul, the first thing that YOU need to do to get even the chance of an answer here is to post how much revenue there was before the internet and back it up...

Once you do that, I'm sure there will be plenty of people happy to back up internet revenue.

Also, I will have to disagree with looking at revenue only. We should be looking at Profit generated from porn, not revenue generated from porn. Since when a market develops, it usually gets cheaper because profit margins are increased.

So the important number is profit, not revenue. But we can do both, not a problem.

[blofer80]

somoene reads his longggggggggg posts?

[scuba steve]

go do some work on the internet and then you can comment on it

[OnanistsCash]

Interesting thread, i always like this kind of threads ;) Hope Shap takes some time to write something, always loved his feedback on this market future views

Its also always funny to see Nathan answering on them LOL, not because he doesn't know what he is saying, he is probably one of the guys which better understands the field! If he is not the one who knows it best!

Its funny just because he "may be" one of the pilars "guilty" for what Paul is describing which he simply calls it a market change/adapting and for others, like me, its a sick non ethical way of doing business ( Which on the other hand from were i come from is very common so its not something i get amazed of, but lets say i thought serious guys here in the REAL porn industry didn't do that kind of stuff .... On the other hand I also must say in some sick way admire that "transformation" skills he claims on his signature, its funny how i would love to have a coffee with him like a sort of fan someday and ask him lots of things even when i think he may be responsable for the beggining of the end of our biz LOL )

Anyway, back to what Paul says, let me talk about myself personally and my experience, which is not much compared to many people involved on this thread, but i will start, maybe some may keep it going ... I'm basically new-school, i entered on the biz in 2005 because i saw there was a huge gap between people in charge of selling sites and people with the technical skills ....

I had always been out of the boards, honestly i never thought it was a place worth of spending time unless you need to get a job or promote something ( Right now about to launch a program so here i am ... )

I had been building sites and pushing third party programs since 2005 ( bbo, brazzers, etc ) and could afford to buy a nice house when i was 22 like a year after i got into the "biz". I remember even sending mail to brazzers asking them to promote them when they still didn't had an affiliate program and where promoting their own sites and i was told i was going to get contacted back when they launched the beta LOL

Anyway, back to the thread itself .... I remember Shap saying on another thread some time ago something like this: "Online porn today, like any other market, evolved and its not anymore a biz where any young guy from his garage can make 250k a year, today is a game of big companies ...."

I think that Shap comment pretty resumes it :P

I think Paul described todays market perfectly, bandwidth is very cheap, content producers are giving their footages as a gift ( Good content if you know where to look at it could still be found, but its coming more and more difficult! ), lots of people taking advantage of safe harbors, etc and setting a very dangerous precedent .... "Porn on internet is free, why would you pay for it?"

5 Years ago, i did a huge ammount of money monthly ( For being an affiliate ), today i must say i'm paying the operational costs from this same work only and living from savings i did then.

The thing here is, and i think where Paul is going with this thread, what are you here for? To make shit loads of money easily? Or to bring a solid/good product you can feel proud of?

I think the days of doing easy money are gone for ever ....

About doing a good product you can be proud of, well, i think its very difficult, still, i'm on that journey and feel there is still a small chance for those who are about step in today and have a variety of solid skills ( Like being able to design, code, manage, sell and even shooting ) all at once in order to avoid those huge operational costs, and off course, working 24/7 :P I'm very proud of the sites i'm developing which you will be able to see in the following days ;P

Probably in one year, there won't be ever a chance to do this, as there won't be any real third party HQ content producers doing movies for licensing and affording to do your own would be unprofitable if you don't have other source of revenues like Paul said ( "Illegal" or non ethical tubes, etc ) ...

Anyway, paysites will eventually die and dating/webcams are definetely the future ....

Off course anyone could try and may have some good paysites running, i pretend to be one of those, but i think i will be on that place just because i love the challenge and love doing it, i think that there won't be anymore place for people just looking to only do huge ammount of bucks or even some small profit without pushing his ass like a fucking workaholic .... I guess we could afford to do a decent living from it, being proud for the product we have and working very hard to keep it up ..... Plain and simple ....

My two cents

Pd: btw Paul, i obviously know your work and lots of people i know which i respect admire your work, if anytime you like or need something, shoot me a message at [email protected]

[OnanistsCash]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

no matter the current trends of piracy, the internet instantly created millions more *possible* porn consumers than there ever was or will be.

Thats true, the problem is the precedence that is being installed: "Porn is free, why pay for it?"

You may not see this like a threat, but believe me, from where i come, corruption on govs. is so natural that people not even take the time to go voting .... Each year less people vote, and off course same corrupt people stay in power, do you think this is different ....

I think its the same thing, this whole bunch of new audience will eventually stop paying, big companies will keep there doing what they are doing and that it ....

Don't forget we are selling to people .... And people operate based on their cultural background ....

Sorry for asking this, it may be stupid, but isn't the FSC doing anything about this? ( Tube safe harbors, online piracy, etc - Honestly, i think the only thread here are tubes safe harbors .... ) ?

[billywatson]

When I was growing up in the mid-70's, porn was a scarce/valuable commodity. We once found a box of dirty mags out in the middle of the Phoenix desert (no longer there) and it was like hitting a jackpot. And movies? NO ONE had those, cause it involved a projector and 8mm film.

I remember my first porn VHS. High school. Brand new technology. All of a sudden more porn -- it wasn't so scarce anymore.

We all know where this is going. I think it's nothing more than supply/demand. That's it, really. Well, that and the fact duplication is now a matter of seconds, and distribution world-wide in the same amount of time...literally seconds. Or minutes.

And, of course, it's now free...or, worthless, depending on how you look at it.

[xxxbusiness]

if porn die, people should have stopped masturbating before. There will be always money in porn, but maybe little less than some years ago

[$5 submissions]

Why not just diversify into mainstream? There's many concepts out there

[RadicalSights]

The Internet has done much more harm than good.

[Cherry7]

I do not consider myself an expert, but the free porn I have seen is

Low resolution

Poorly lit and shot

mostly several years old

I am sure there is better stolen stuff on torrents, but only my son understands how to use them and he has no money anyway so no loss there.

So I should think it is not impossible to offer material which would part the money from the client....

[RadicalSights]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

I do not consider myself an expert, but the free porn I have seen is

Low resolution

Poorly lit and shot

http://megaporn.com/video/?c=videos

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by RadicalSights

http://megaporn.com/video/?c=videos

Yeah there's some HQ videos there not a majority of thjem though. You also get an annoying pop-up everytime you click a movie that you have to X out of. Any tube site hosting all HQ movies will go out of business with their bandwidth bills.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by RadicalSights

The Internet has done much more harm than good.

Why are you using it then? You're a moron.

[CaptainHowdy]

[Black All Through]

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

Porn made the Internet what it is today.

Pretty much V_Rocks
28% of web traffic is searching for porn 24/7

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Black All Through

Pretty much V_Rocks
28% of web traffic is searching for porn 24/7

74% of all statistics are made up on the spot

[FlexxAeon]

nevermind

[OnanistsCash]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

I do not consider myself an expert, but the free porn I have seen is

Low resolution

Poorly lit and shot

mostly several years old

I am sure there is better stolen stuff on torrents, but only my son understands how to use them and he has no money anyway so no loss there.

So I should think it is not impossible to offer material which would part the money from the client....

LOL, you need to check tubes more regularily bro, probably some DCMA agent could step in on this one, what i can tell you is that i'm pushing bbo and brazzers and its funny to see at the other day or sometimes the very same day an update goes out and i'm pushing it with my galleries, etc, i find it whole length at xvideos.com for example, funny things is that if you check their webmasters section, they claim videos appear on site 5 days after they are uploaded, so how can this be possible? Or they are getting to brazzers/bbo content before it is released, or they are uploading it theirselves ;)

Just in case, bbo and brazzers be adviced to check your members area code to see if a member could be able to reach your future scheduled releases by guessing the scene id ;P I think i tried once and this was not working, but you did lots of changes since then inside the members area ;) Anyway, take a look at it and make sure its working properly ;)

Back to thread, bro, they have low resolution, there you have a point, about the content quality, etc, as i already mentioned, some major tubes have sometimes the very same updates the big companies are releasing the other day .... And if you look in their archives you may find lots of these scenes that maybe had not that much exposure on purpose but are there .... The "safe harbor" ILLEGAL tubes are using will definetely set the presedence and say bye bye to a big market of paysites, i'm sure about that.

[OnanistsCash]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

True. But porn is like a women in life. It's not what you've done, but what you've done lately.

Tell that to Lupe Fuentes ... Sorry, i had to make the joke! it was to easy!

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Porn will never die, just not be as profitable as it was. Earnings will shrink and shrink until it's a shadow of what it used to be.

However I wonder if the porn would of survived the Internet or was the shrinking inevitable?

What cold of turned it around or stopped happening what did happen?

Prior to the Internet the entry level was high. Getting a magazine printed and distributed stopped most from trying. Even Video needed a huge run of duplications to bring down the price. 500 copies was an expensive run and then with the box covers, boxes and selling the title to the shops it was out of most peoples reach. Some like me sold to magazine and Video publishers, but the bar was generally high.

The Internet changed all that. Suddenly anyone with a minimum knowledge of how to create a site and put it up could be a porn publisher. They could steal, shoot or buy content, build a site, host it and there it was. They were porn publishers.

So 1,000s got into the game where there were 100s. And all of a sudden the only problem was finding enough people to buy from their site and not one of the 1,000s of other sites was the only problem to making the site profitable.

When BW costs started to fall the only factor, other than content, that did cost money before a sign was made. Made opening sites free or paid easier.

When speeds increased and BW fell to what it is today the dye was cast. Piracy didn't help, but Manwin and others can afford to give away legal porn to get a sale on penis pills or a few on their sites to pay the cost of free porn.

Now for those who say porn earnings are greater than they have ever been. Prove it. Don't just point to one or two companies. Prove retail sales of porn today are bigger than they used to be. A Porn video used to sell for $30 a magazine for $10. The turnover of Wicked, Private or Hustler was the turn over of the production side of the business.

"'I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone.'

and when they finally got their head out of their ass the vcr made the movie industry more money than all other streams COMBINED..

when you guys finally figuire out to truely embrace the technology your current bitching is going to look just as stupid.

[RadicalSights]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Why are you using it then? You're a moron.

So just because I use the internet that automatically means it's done more good than harm for people? eh ok... idiot.

Maybe you should go talk to this kids family and ask them how the amazing internet changed their lives.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312018,00.html

Oh but I guess it must have you made you some easy money.. so it must be an automatically great thing.

*Moron.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by RadicalSights

So just because I use internet that automatically means it's done more good than harm for people?

If you think something is bad, but you still use it then you're pretty fucking stupid.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by RadicalSights

Maybe you should go talk to this kids family and ask them how the amazing internet changed their lives.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312018,00.html

OK first You're quoting FAUX News

Many people claim PORN has ruined their lives so let's ban that.

[RadicalSights]

Originally Posted by GatorB

OK first You're quoting FAUX News

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier

It's a very well kown case and you can be sure there's loads more just like it out there. The internet has helped kill plenty people and has ruined many peoples lives.

Not only did it ruin the parents lives but it also ruined the perpetrators lives.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...chatrooms.html

The internet is a dangerous tool that allows people to gain access to your personal life so much easier then ever before.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by RadicalSights

The internet is a dangerous tool that allows people to gain access to your personal life so much easier then ever before.

Best stop using it.

Immediately.

[GARY LEE]

Whether the porn shows up on a high resolution LCD screen or the wall of a cave there will always be some guy ready to choke his chicken. If he can do it for free because someone gives it out to make a quick buck and doesn't care where our industry will be in ten years, his cumshot feels just as good.

[Davy]

You just have to look around - lots of idiots with no real-life skills. That explains it all.

[nikki99]

not this shit again
fifty Paul´s threads

[JFK]

Fitty survivals

[potter]

Hey Paul. Two quick questions for you. Seriously...

How much do you want to bet, the overall revenue generation from the adult industry is MORE than it was before the internet.

And also...

How much do you want to bet the overall profit margins from revenue is MORE than what it was before the internet.