Anti-piracy idea... - GoFuckYourself.com

Kiopa_Matt · 06-10-2011, 07:52 AM

Not sure if this is a retarded idea or not, but I constantly see people complaining about piracy, and it's a legitimate gripe. These huge lawsuits that try to sue like 12,000 people in one go with hopes of a multi-million dollar settlement are pretty ridiculous, if you ask me.

Why not just get laws passed to treat illegally downloading a movie torrent the same as a speeding ticket via photo radar is treated now? I'm sure the film & music industries have enough lobbying power in Washington. When someone illegally downloads a movie, a $40 bill shows up in the mailbox the IP address is registered to. If you don't pay it, it gets passed onto a collection agency.

Once tens of thousands of people start getting these $40 bills in the mail, it'd probably persuade them to actually buy the movie for $12, or whatever. Or no?

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 07:54 AM

An IP address is not a person.

Redrob · 06-10-2011, 07:56 AM

A license plate is not a person either; but, the ticket still gets sent.

Kiopa_Matt · 06-10-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

An IP address is not a person.

Neither is a car, but that doesn't stop the cops from sending you a speeding ticket if the license plate is registered to your address.

Agent 488 · 06-10-2011, 07:57 AM

the only solution is to shut down the internet. the internet was created to share information, not be a strip mall.

iamtam · 06-10-2011, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

Not sure if this is a retarded idea or not, but I constantly see people complaining about piracy, and it's a legitimate gripe. These huge lawsuits that try to sue like 12,000 people in one go with hopes of a multi-million dollar settlement are pretty ridiculous, if you ask me.

Why not just get laws passed to treat illegally downloading a movie torrent the same as a speeding ticket via photo radar is treated now? I'm sure the film & music industries have enough lobbying power in Washington. When someone illegally downloads a movie, a $40 bill shows up in the mailbox the IP address is registered to. If you don't pay it, it gets passed onto a collection agency.

Once tens of thousands of people start getting these $40 bills in the mail, it'd probably persuade them to actually buy the movie for $12, or whatever. Or no?

dumb idea. if a movie costs $15 to buy, and you can pirate 100 of them before getting a $40 ticket, there is no reason to change your actions.

OutToLunch · 06-10-2011, 08:02 AM

Mention it to the affiliate manager at http://www.wbshop.com/Affiliate-Prog...efault,pg.html

PR_Glen · 06-10-2011, 08:05 AM

it's hard enough to make a speeding ticket stick in court if you are willing to fight it, a ticket like this would never hold up, plus they would complain that it clogs up a system that is already over loaded with cases.

Prices have to come down to reflect the demand, it's as simple as that. Nobody should have to spend 39.95 for a dvd...

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 08:06 AM

Your idea is asinine. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. No offense champ.

The only way this would work is if ISP's across the board were forced to assign you a single static IP which you would need to use always. Your idea would also mean schools, libraries, and universities as well as employers would have to assign and maintain IP's and essentially "log" each user and their time on that IP. As none of them are in the policing of the internet business and going to track down people for $40.00 fines.

While I am sure your 'theory' may have had some good intentions. It obviously was not through out in application to how the internet works, and the management of IP space.

tony286 · 06-10-2011, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

it's hard enough to make a speeding ticket stick in court if you are willing to fight it, a ticket like this would never hold up, plus they would complain that it clogs up a system that is already over loaded with cases.

Prices have to come down to reflect the demand, it's as simple as that. Nobody should have to spend 39.95 for a dvd...

They steal 99 cent apps and songs. Its not price its not wanting to pay period.

seeandsee · 06-10-2011, 08:11 AM

they will make something, just wait but not now

Tom_PM · 06-10-2011, 08:13 AM

Maybe anyone who accepts user uploads should capture date, time, IP, content ID, and use a checkbox where the uploader confirms that they have the legal right to distribute the content.

Makes too much sense or not enough?

Kiopa_Matt · 06-10-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

While I am sure your 'theory' may have had some good intentions. It obviously was not through out in application to how the internet works, and the management of IP space.

Ummm, no offense, but if you provide an ISP with an IP address and timestamp, they can give you a name and address if wanted.

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

Ummm, no offense, but if you provide an ISP with an IP address and timestamp, they can give you a name and address if wanted.

Ah ha! So you want ISP's to become the internet police....

and pray tell. WHO is going to pay for the added resources and man power to enforce the new rules as your lay out? ISP's are not going to do this for free. What you are proposing could easily overwhelm them in regards to compliance with this folly.

Are you willing to pay an extra $50-100.00 per month or more for the 'privilege' of this enforcement? Are you going to be willing to provide copies of your D.L. and a utility bill to prove your I.D., like the Patriot Act in regards to rent a postal drop box, just to gain internet access? Furthermore, it must be you are willing to concede that access to the internet is a 'privilege' that can be taken away by government for the enforcement of copyright holders, which are private companies and individuals.

"He who trade's liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security."

GatorB · 06-10-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

Neither is a car, but that doesn't stop the cops from sending you a speeding ticket if the license plate is registered to your address.

Well if it's not you and you don't file charges on the person driving your car for theft then it's assumed you gave them permission to drive your car. With an IP you can't prove WHO did the downloading. Maybe someone leached off your wi-fi or hacked into it? what about PUBLIC wi-fi which is most times unsecured? If you want to put an end to that a law like this is a good idea. Maybe if that many people think a $15 movie is too much then maybe the answer is selling the movie for LESS. Netflix has actually passed torrents as the most used application on the internet. People are actually torrenting LESS and they are actually PAYING for Netflix subscriptions. So in many cases it's not that people want FREE stuff they just want what they feel is as fair price. If content owners would allow more newer stuff on Netflix streaming torrenting would further be reduced.

ottopottomouse · 06-10-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

Ummm, no offense, but if you provide an ISP with an IP address and timestamp, they can give you a name and address if wanted.

Can they tell you which one of the 6 people in the house did the downloading?

Kolargol · 06-10-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Ah ha! So you want ISP's to become the internet police....

and pray tell. WHO is going to pay for the added resources and man power to enforce the new rules as your lay out? ISP's are not going to do this for free. What you are proposing could easily overwhelm them in regards to compliance with this folly.

ISPs have to give your details if you steal money from someone's bank account online. If the anti piracy law was passed and stealing music was a crime just like stealing money from a bank account the ISPs would have to comply. So technically it's probably possible.

The problem is there are many other reasons not to pass such law...

Kolargol · 06-10-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Can they tell you which one of the 6 people in the house did the downloading?

They can't and don't need to. Whoever's name is on internet bill is responsible. Just like with a car example mentioned earlier. It may vary between the countries though.

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolargol

ISPs have to give your details if you steal money from someone's bank account online. If the anti piracy law was passed and stealing music was a crime just like stealing money from a bank account the ISPs would have to comply. So technically it's probably possible.

The problem is there are many other reasons not to pass such law...

We are talking about volumes here and the enforcement and compliance.

In the past year, we have received ONE grand jury subpoena to turn over records for law enforcement. It was for someone who was supposedly extorting someone in Maine. Something that, I am sure you can concede, doesn't happen that often.

While we are not the biggest ISP by any means, with around 500 clients, you can imagine some companies like Charter, Softlayer, or companies much bigger would need an army of enforcement people to keep up with all of the requests. Whether they have them logged or not.

Which then leads to the slippery slope of them invading your privacy and starting to pro-actively SEARCH what you are doing as a form of cost control. Now you have a private company involved in privacy to control their costs by passing new policies as to what is and is not allowed and they will search accordingly if you use their service.

With most areas of this country, there is a single broadband provider. Whether that is telco, cable, whatever. Which leads to you being regulated and possibly restricted from internet access all together because your kids was doing torrents or tube sites.

The point being, most intelligent people do not want to sacrifice all of that on the slippery slope because some copyright holders refuse to spend their own money policing their shit. So they want the government and private industry to do it for them....... basically both policing, and paying the tab.

GatorB · 06-10-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolargol

ISPs have to give your details if you steal money from someone's bank account online. If the anti piracy law was passed and stealing music was a crime just like stealing money from a bank account the ISPs would have to comply. So technically it's probably possible. ...

And of course there would be 100,000 times more request for downloading that bank acocunt hacking. All of which is costing the ISPs money to provide these detials. Of course those costs are passed on to the consumer.

Most people are getting their free porn from tubes not torrents. And even if you passed such a law pornographers would be WAY WAY down the list on the long line for content owners who request IP addresses for POSSIBLE theft. Mainstream Hollywood companies would come first.

Why is it people in this industry are thinikng like mainsteam music and movies content have thought for YEARS and this line of thought has proven to be pointless. Just like mainstream content owners, porno needs to accept the new reality of the internet age and deal within those perameters isntead of trying to hold onto old outdated business models. 100 years ago the blacksmiths that switched to selling tires were more successful than the one that just stayed being blacksmiths and tried to get laws passed banning the "horseless carriage".

Kiopa_Matt · 06-10-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Ah ha! So you want ISP's to become the internet police....

Not at all, or at least not anymore than they already are. Maybe improve their logging systems a bit to streamline things, but that's it. How do you think people are constantly getting sued to downloading MP3s and torrents these days? ISPs provide information requested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

and pray tell. WHO is going to pay for the added resources and man power to enforce the new rules as your lay out?

Who pays for the photo radars sitting on your local highways right now? Right, the people who get caught speeding by photo radar. Same concept. That's why a $12 movie will cost you $40 if you get caught downloading it illegally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Are you going to be willing to provide copies of your D.L. and a utility bill to prove your I.D., like the Patriot Act in regards to rent a postal drop box just to gain internet access?

Walking into a random Kinkos and opening a post office box is quite a bit different than getting internet hooked up in your own home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Furthermore, it must be you are willing to concede that access to the internet is a 'privilege' that can be taken away by government for the enforcement of copyright holders, which are private companies and individuals.

Not saying anything about taking away the internet. I'm saying if you commit an offense that is currently illegal under the US Criminal Code, you can expect a fine in your mailbox. Same as if you decide to go ripping down the highway at 120mph, you can expect a fine.

I don't know, everyone is constantly complaining about piracy, so I had an idea, and posted it. Simple as. Once enacted, people would think before downloading a torrent of their favorite porn star, "I can either download this, and risk the chance of a $40 fine in my mailbox, or simply signup and pay my $15".

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 09:05 AM

No offense, but most of that other stuff was fodder, so I am not even going to bother replying to it on a point by point basis and remove it from my reply. It's asinine on it's face and most of it's already been covered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

I don't know, everyone is constantly complaining about piracy, so I had an idea, and posted it. Simple as. Once enacted, people would think before downloading a torrent of their favorite porn star, "I can either download this, and risk the chance of a $40 fine in my mailbox, or simply signup and pay my $15".

Yes. They are complaining instead of paying a third party company, or doing it themselves, to enforce their copyrights. Instead, they want private industry, tax payers, or the government to do the work for them.

If the threat of being sued for $125,000.00 per incident of copyright theft is not going to deter them. Do you honestly think a $40.00 fine will?

raymor · 06-10-2011, 11:39 AM

I don't like big brother more than anyone else, so I probably wouldn't advocate such a scheme.
However ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Your idea is asinine. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. No offense champ.

The only way this would work is if ISP's across the board were forced to assign you a single static IP which you would need to use always.
...
While I am sure your 'theory' may have had some good intentions. It obviously was not through out in application to how the internet works, and the management of IP space.

Funny you should mention the management of IP space. As you may know, we are out of IPv4
addresses. IPv6 is coming fast. IPv6 has enough addresses for each person to have a million.

If there were a $40 fine, I'm sure the ISP wouldn't mind collecting it and keeping their $12 share.
All they need to do is query a hash database and compare it to downloads, then add $40 per
song / video / whatever to the user's bill. Of course if the user doesn't pay their bill, their
service gets cut off and they don' steal any more.

Socks · 06-10-2011, 11:44 AM

They should just make everyone have an internet pass card that you have to swipe to get on the internet. That way they can trace everything back to you!

kane · 06-10-2011, 11:47 AM

Could a company do something like this if they used a warning system? They could do the investigation and to see who had the IP address at the time of the download and then send a warning to them telling them that they have seen them download a movie and if they do it again there will be a fine/suit filed. They could even include the title of the movie and any other info they have. In that letter they could point out that if it is not them doing this they might need to secure their wifi or better monitor their kids. This would give someone a chance to fix a potential problem before they got hit with the fine.

bronco67 · 06-10-2011, 12:04 PM

The best anti-piracy will be to make it as inconvenient as possible from a technical standpoint. That starts with making it a bitch to find the product in a search.

I used to download illegally when torrent first came out years ago, but my mindset has shifted to wanting the creators of the art to get my money, so they can make more of what I love, whether its movies, games or music. It's basic economics, and most people either don't understand the concept, or think that "someone else will pay for it". That mindset will kill the digital economy, which I would imagine is a good chunk of the rest of our economy.

I also buy now because it's actually more convenient than trying to steal it. I also sleep better at night knowing I won't get some letter threatening of a lawsuit because my IP was lumped in with 10,000 other thieves that downloaded something.

Barefootsies · 06-10-2011, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor

I don't like big brother more than anyone else, so I probably wouldn't advocate such a scheme.

Correct. Open a history book. Having the government up in your kitchen when it comes to "policing anything" is almost never a good thing. I frankly do not want the government involved in the internet any more than they already are.

That is a strong thought coming from someone who's has actually PRODUCED 1400+ scenes himself over the past decade. Unlike many in this thread, I am actually a copyright owner or holder. That being said, if you own a property, you should be the one footing the bill to enforce your copyright. Not the government, tax payer, or ISP's.

chronig · 06-10-2011, 01:33 PM

why am I reading this thread...

...

pornmasta · 06-10-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

These huge lawsuits that try to sue like 12,000 people in one go with hopes of a multi-million dollar settlement are pretty ridiculous, if you ask me.

no:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/tech-news/view/90015

"RIAA Says Pirate Bay Has Stolen More Money Than Exists On Earth"

indeed ridiculous

pornmasta · 06-10-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiopa_Matt

Why not just get laws passed to treat illegally downloading a movie torrent the same as a speeding ticket via photo radar is treated now?

You should work for sarkozy...
The problem is that you have to prove that you are conscient that something is illegal

06-10-2011, 07:52 AM	#1
Kiopa_Matt Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,448	Anti-piracy idea... Not sure if this is a retarded idea or not, but I constantly see people complaining about piracy, and it's a legitimate gripe. These huge lawsuits that try to sue like 12,000 people in one go with hopes of a multi-million dollar settlement are pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. Why not just get laws passed to treat illegally downloading a movie torrent the same as a speeding ticket via photo radar is treated now? I'm sure the film & music industries have enough lobbying power in Washington. When someone illegally downloads a movie, a $40 bill shows up in the mailbox the IP address is registered to. If you don't pay it, it gets passed onto a collection agency. Once tens of thousands of people start getting these $40 bills in the mail, it'd probably persuade them to actually buy the movie for $12, or whatever. Or no? __________________ xMarkPro -- Ultimate Blog Network Management Streamline your marketing operations. Centralize management of domains, pages, Wordpress blogs, sponsors, link codes, media items, sales and traffic statistics, plus more!

06-10-2011, 07:54 AM	#2
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	An IP address is not a person. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

06-10-2011, 08:05 AM	#8
PR_Glen Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 9,058	it's hard enough to make a speeding ticket stick in court if you are willing to fight it, a ticket like this would never hold up, plus they would complain that it clogs up a system that is already over loaded with cases. Prices have to come down to reflect the demand, it's as simple as that. Nobody should have to spend 39.95 for a dvd... __________________ webmaster at pimproll dot com

06-10-2011, 08:06 AM	#9
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Your idea is asinine. If you can't see that, you're an idiot. No offense champ. The only way this would work is if ISP's across the board were forced to assign you a single static IP which you would need to use always. Your idea would also mean schools, libraries, and universities as well as employers would have to assign and maintain IP's and essentially "log" each user and their time on that IP. As none of them are in the policing of the internet business and going to track down people for $40.00 fines. While I am sure your 'theory' may have had some good intentions. It obviously was not through out in application to how the internet works, and the management of IP space. __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

06-10-2011, 08:11 AM	#11
seeandsee Check SIG! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europe (Skype: gojkoas) Posts: 50,945	they will make something, just wait but not now __________________ BUY MY SIG - 50$/Year Contact here

06-10-2011, 07:56 AM	#3
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,790	A license plate is not a person either; but, the ticket still gets sent.

06-10-2011, 07:57 AM	#5
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	the only solution is to shut down the internet. the internet was created to share information, not be a strip mall.

06-10-2011, 08:02 AM	#7
OutToLunch Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2008 Location: Near You Posts: 157	Mention it to the affiliate manager at http://www.wbshop.com/Affiliate-Prog...efault,pg.html

06-10-2011, 08:13 AM	#12
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Maybe anyone who accepts user uploads should capture date, time, IP, content ID, and use a checkbox where the uploader confirms that they have the legal right to distribute the content. Makes too much sense or not enough? __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

06-10-2011, 11:44 AM	#24
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,478	They should just make everyone have an internet pass card that you have to swipe to get on the internet. That way they can trace everything back to you!

06-10-2011, 11:47 AM	#25
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	Could a company do something like this if they used a warning system? They could do the investigation and to see who had the IP address at the time of the download and then send a warning to them telling them that they have seen them download a movie and if they do it again there will be a fine/suit filed. They could even include the title of the movie and any other info they have. In that letter they could point out that if it is not them doing this they might need to secure their wifi or better monitor their kids. This would give someone a chance to fix a potential problem before they got hit with the fine.

06-10-2011, 12:04 PM	#26
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,035	The best anti-piracy will be to make it as inconvenient as possible from a technical standpoint. That starts with making it a bitch to find the product in a search. I used to download illegally when torrent first came out years ago, but my mindset has shifted to wanting the creators of the art to get my money, so they can make more of what I love, whether its movies, games or music. It's basic economics, and most people either don't understand the concept, or think that "someone else will pay for it". That mindset will kill the digital economy, which I would imagine is a good chunk of the rest of our economy. I also buy now because it's actually more convenient than trying to steal it. I also sleep better at night knowing I won't get some letter threatening of a lawsuit because my IP was lumped in with 10,000 other thieves that downloaded something. __________________ Last edited by bronco67; 06-10-2011 at 12:06 PM..

06-10-2011, 01:33 PM	#28
chronig Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,653	why am I reading this thread... ...