Surprise! TSA Is Searching Your CAR????, Subway, Ferry, Bus, AND Plane - GoFuckYourself.com

webairalex · 06-22-2011, 07:04 AM

What if you refuse or deny the search of your private vehicle? No major media coverage?

Think you could avoid the TSA's body scanners and pat-downs by taking Amtrak? Think again. Even your daily commute isn't safe from TSA screenings. And because the TSA is working with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Border Patrol, you may have your immigration status examined along with your "junk".

As part of the TSA's request for FY 2012 funding, TSA Administrator John Pistole told Congress last week that the TSA conducts 8,000 unannounced security screenings every year. These screenings, conducted with local law enforcement agencies as well as immigration, can be as simple as checking out cargo at a busy seaport. But more and more, they seem to involve giving airport-style pat-downs and screenings of unsuspecting passengers at bus terminals, ferries, and even subways.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/...systems-yearly

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story...sNenRgu3w.cspx

marketsmart · 06-22-2011, 07:08 AM

i blame Obama and his invention of the Patriot Act...

i also blame him for his failure to prevent 9/11..

i hope a Democrat gets elected in 2012..

i am really sick of these republican presidents messing everything up...

.

Emil · 06-22-2011, 07:08 AM

Things start to really take of in the US. Pretty scary.

iamtam · 06-22-2011, 07:14 AM

typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:16 AM

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamtam

typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

I hear plenty of right, far right, bitching about tsa....Are kids that bitch about it left wing nuts? Truly, what idiot makes this a left/right thing?

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamtam

typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

Funny how some people still believe the whole left vs right fairytale. There's you and there's the state.

marcop · 06-22-2011, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Funny how some people still believe the whole left vs right fairytale. There's you and there's the state.

And there's the corporations.

MaDalton · 06-22-2011, 07:25 AM

i posted that here in the past: car checkpoints when you enter a city like New York or Washington - they will come.

Sly · 06-22-2011, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamtam

typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

It saddens me what invasions people will accept in the guise of "security."

webairalex · 06-22-2011, 07:28 AM

LABTOPS????? are you kidding me?

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080107/033235.shtml

More Courts Saying That Customs Officers Can Look Through Your Laptop
from the don't-keep-anything-secret-there dept

We first discussed this a while back, but it appears that more US courts are agreeing that customs agents have every right to snoop through your computer before letting you into the country. This issue is getting some people concerned, as they point to the vast difference between bringing tangible goods into the country (which, reasonably, can be searched) and all of the information you contain on your laptop (which, increasingly, is like a backup brain). Of course, since most of the cases testing this theory involve people who were found with child porn on their laptop, it's no surprise that there hasn't been as much discussion of the cases. People generally don't want to be seen as siding with child porn. However, it is a much larger issue, especially considering how much personal and private information most folks have on their laptops these days. If these searches are allowed (as it appears they will be), how long until the process is abused? How long until some confidential or embarrassing information is leaked just because a customs official snoops through someone's laptop?

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-02-11/t...s?_s=PM:TRAVEL

http://gizmodo.com/5543757/australia...aptop-for-porn

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...hild-porn.html

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcop

And there's the corporations.

that are part of the state. they wouldn't be able to operate the way they do without the support of the state.

Serge Litehead · 06-22-2011, 07:30 AM

I expect TSA agent at every door, supermarkets, malls, movies, houses and everthing else. That should protect us, the citizens best possible way from ourselves.

Sly · 06-22-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holograph

I expect TSA agent at every door, supermarkets, malls, movies, houses and everthing else. That should protect us, the citizens best possible way from ourselves.

We are too stupid and weak. We need their help. We need them to tell us what to do.

IllTestYourGirls · 06-22-2011, 07:33 AM

Do you also realize that the TSA is now selling goods they steal from passengers?

I do not get where the confusion on the law is.

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

sperbonzo · 06-22-2011, 07:33 AM

Ron Paul 2012

.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Do you also realize that the TSA is now selling goods they steal from passengers?

I do not get where the confusion on the law is.

The problem is... the courts have already ruled them reasonable.

IllTestYourGirls · 06-22-2011, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The problem is... the courts have already ruled them reasonable.

The courts at one time also ruled slavery to be legal.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

The courts at one time also ruled slavery to be legal.

Then it was legal... just like when the constitution was made they had slaves, it was even legal then as well, even with the paper.

Agent 488 · 06-22-2011, 07:38 AM

god americans are so stupid ..

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:38 AM

So according to "police logic" you are a criminal unless you can prove you are innocent

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Then it was legal... just like when the constitution was made they had slaves, it was even legal then as well, even with the paper.

?We must never forget that everything Hitler did was legal.? -- Martin Luther King Jr.

Sly · 06-22-2011, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

god americans are so stupid ..

That's why we need the government to tell us what to do!

IllTestYourGirls · 06-22-2011, 07:40 AM

I should also say just because of a ruling in the 70s does not mean that they TSA is CURRENTLY breaking the 4th.

Grapesoda · 06-22-2011, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i blame Obama and his invention of the Patriot Act...

i also blame him for his failure to prevent 9/11..

i hope a Democrat gets elected in 2012..

i am really sick of these republican presidents messing everything up...

.

why not blame the religion of peace?

IllTestYourGirls · 06-22-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

why not blame the religion of peace?

Because they did not make the laws? Our law makers fell into their trap and the American people went running in after.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

?We must never forget that everything Hitler did was legal.? -- Martin Luther King Jr.

Other than his war crimes, eh?

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Other than his war crimes, eh?

In the 3rd Reich those things were perfectly legal. Remember they made laws that said that jews were inferior and weren't allowed to marry pure Aryans.

Just because someone makes something into a law, doesn't make it right.

seeandsee · 06-22-2011, 08:01 AM

people just let them fuck with your freedom

soon you will see

marketsmart · 06-22-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Other than his war crimes, eh?

The US commits war crimes in every war it engages in..

Funny how its the US who always charges its enemies with war crimes, yet claims immunity because we are fighting for democracy...

.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

In the 3rd Reich those things were perfectly legal. Remember they made laws that said that jews were inferior and weren't allowed to marry pure Aryans.

Just because someone makes something into a law, doesn't make it right.

We aren't talking about if it's right or not. I don't think most laws are right.

The question was more, if it's legal or not. It was legal to have slaves, until a higher court said otherwise, but without question it was legal.

It was never legal for Hitler to commit war crimes.

I can make my own rules and laws too, even have friends agree to them... even have my own judges that rule with me. But if a higher power, a higher court, says different and they can force that power on me, then my law is null (or never was), if I like it or not.

ilnjscb · 06-22-2011, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Other than his war crimes, eh?

It is a very good point - these idiots always view the letter of their local law, rather than the principles of humanity, as their guiding motivation. If the letter of the law can be twisted to allow them to break basic human rights, they claim it is legal conduct.

Every nation does this eventually. Apparently republics and democratic nations can only last a few hundred years before a small group gets control and wants to keep it that way.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marketsmart

The US commits war crimes in every war it engages in..

Funny how its the US who always charges its enemies with war crimes, yet claims immunity because we are fighting for democracy...

.

Could you show me the concentration camps are were we starve people, gas them, and bulldoze them into a huge mass graves? By the .... what was it, millions of people?

Do you know what a war crime is?

Sly · 06-22-2011, 08:11 AM

It depends on one's understanding of the word 'crime'. After taking power the National Socialists passed various laws; thus almost everything that was done by the Nazis (and thus directly or indirectly by Hitler) was perfectly legal. If something is permissable in law then it is not a crime and so such things as euthanising the mentally challenged, forbidding Jewish doctors to treat non-Jews, forbidding Jewish-non Jewish marriage, sending people to the ghetto were perfectly legal and technically not crimes.
One of the problems with placing Nazis on trial after the War for 'crimes against humanity' was that there was no such thing as the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights when the Third Reich existed. Thus, the Nazis could claim that the courts had no jurisdiction or authority and that no crimes had been committed. Properly speaking, they were correct though, on a moral level, people found the actions of the Nazis to be abhorrent.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_crime...#ixzz1Q1Pat0t9

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

It was never legal for Hitler to commit war crimes.

Of course it wasn't right. But the only reason they called what he did "war crimes" is because he lost. The soviets raped and pillaged their way through Poland etc, but they won so what they did weren't crimes

Personally I don't care if something's legal or not: If it's an act of injustice, it's wrong. period.

Sly · 06-22-2011, 08:14 AM

The whole point being discussed is whether or not a "law" makes something right, and we all know that it really doesn't. Not sure why we are debating whether or not Adolf Hitler committed war crimes... war crimes are typically international and realistically don't hold much water. How many "war criminals" are running around the world, in perfect daylight, and nothing happens to them?

Feel-good policy with little real weight.

EthnicLover · 06-22-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamtam

typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

Michele Bachman, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Mike Huckabee, Ann Coulter...

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

The whole point being discussed is whether or not a "law" makes something right, and we all know that it really doesn't.

Exactly. So the whole argument that what the TSA (and similar agencies) is doing would somehow be ok because the courts haven't convicted them (yet) doesn't hold water.

MaDalton · 06-22-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Could you show me the concentration camps are were we starve people, gas them, and bulldoze them into a huge mass graves? By the .... what was it, millions of people?

Do you know what a war crime is?

not quite the same but that's what Guantanamo is for

pornguy · 06-22-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Thank GOD that was written in Pencil.

u-Bob · 06-22-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

not quite the same but that's what Guantanamo is for

Guantanamo? weren't they supposed to close that thing back in 09?

moeloubani · 06-22-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

The whole point being discussed is whether or not a "law" makes something right, and we all know that it really doesn't. Not sure why we are debating whether or not Adolf Hitler committed war crimes... war crimes are typically international and realistically don't hold much water. How many "war criminals" are running around the world, in perfect daylight, and nothing happens to them?

Feel-good policy with little real weight.

Lots of war criminals are running around with nothing happening to them. George W Bush is one of them, Benjamin Netanyahu is another.

It's funny because you mention the forbidding of Jewish and non-Jewish weddings but is that something that Hitler wanted or something that the Jewish people themselves wanted? Because now that they have Israel, marriage between Jews and non-Jews is illegal there.

To add to that people are held in the world's largest open air prison, denied things like chocolate and basic building materials, denied the ability to be allowed to build schools and constantly bombed and in fear of their lives. That's how Palestinians live every day under Israeli control (which is supported by the United States).

So are you guys mass gassing people? Yes, it happens in Palestine. Is it illegal? Yes.

Do people get bulldozed to death? Yes. Starved to death? Yes.

All supported by the United States. So before going and saying Hitler this and Hitler that take a look at what your own country is doing with their military might.

RyuLion · 06-22-2011, 09:39 AM

Don't care..they'll do what they have to do..

96ukssob · 06-22-2011, 09:43 AM

more safety = less privacy. dont like it? move to Canada

moeloubani · 06-22-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossku69

more safety = less privacy. dont like it? move to Canada

Funny how people say things like that. Don't like it then move.

Well the thing is in a democracy you don't move if you don't like it, you vote. That's the whole idea of a democracy.

However, if YOU don't like the idea of a true democracy then maybe it is YOU who needs to leave the US.

Profits of Doom · 06-22-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i posted that here in the past: car checkpoints when you enter a city like New York or Washington - they will come.

They are already here. I own an expediting company, and last year I was making a delivery to Brooklyn in a 26 foot box truck. I was too tall to go through the Holland tunnel, so I had to route myself through Manhattan and take the Brooklyn Bridge. On 3 separate occasions while driving through Manhattan I was flagged down by NYPD on foot and told to pull over, and made to open the cargo area and show them what was inside. Of course they all had the typical NYPD dick attitudes, which made it even more fun...

Sly · 06-22-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Funny how people say things like that. Don't like it then move.

Well the thing is in a democracy you don't move if you don't like it, you vote. That's the whole idea of a democracy.

However, if YOU don't like the idea of a true democracy then maybe it is YOU who needs to leave the US.

I'm marking this on the calendar. I agree with you.

The Porn Nerd · 06-22-2011, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

We aren't talking about if it's right or not. I don't think most laws are right.

The question was more, if it's legal or not. It was legal to have slaves, until a higher court said otherwise, but without question it was legal.

It was never legal for Hitler to commit war crimes.

I can make my own rules and laws too, even have friends agree to them... even have my own judges that rule with me. But if a higher power, a higher court, says different and they can force that power on me, then my law is null (or never was), if I like it or not.

Welll, saying slavery was "legal" is really a red herring here Doc, sorry. A State can make ANYTHING "legal" - "Kill every firstborn son" for example - but if a "higher court" decides to side with the "law" what then? Courts can be bought and paid for, too. Look at Clarence thomas, the shit he's been doing for over twenty years. In another time a Supreme Court Justice would resign over something like this (and for far, far less) but NOW? Fuck it man. The State owns everything - the media, the courts, the Congress, everything.

What i'm saying is, THIS Supreme Court would probably rule that Slavery was still "legal". LOL So saying we have to follow laws like that is ridiculous. Just sayin'.

JamesGw · 06-22-2011, 10:46 AM

I'm really starting to consider moving.

TheDoc · 06-22-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Welll, saying slavery was "legal" is really a red herring here Doc, sorry. A State can make ANYTHING "legal" - "Kill every firstborn son" for example - but if a "higher court" decides to side with the "law" what then? Courts can be bought and paid for, too. Look at Clarence thomas, the shit he's been doing for over twenty years. In another time a Supreme Court Justice would resign over something like this (and for far, far less) but NOW? Fuck it man. The State owns everything - the media, the courts, the Congress, everything.

What i'm saying is, THIS Supreme Court would probably rule that Slavery was still "legal". LOL So saying we have to follow laws like that is ridiculous. Just sayin'.

The higher courts did rule it legal... slave trade was even taxed, legally, even before the Constitution and after, it's actually one of the very few 100% legal taxable items we have, it was that kind of legal, as in a right to own that 'property.'

It was legal for 10,000+ years, before it became illegal.

06-22-2011, 07:04 AM	#1
webairalex Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 253	Surprise! TSA Is Searching Your CAR????, Subway, Ferry, Bus, AND Plane What if you refuse or deny the search of your private vehicle? No major media coverage? Think you could avoid the TSA's body scanners and pat-downs by taking Amtrak? Think again. Even your daily commute isn't safe from TSA screenings. And because the TSA is working with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and Border Patrol, you may have your immigration status examined along with your "junk". As part of the TSA's request for FY 2012 funding, TSA Administrator John Pistole told Congress last week that the TSA conducts 8,000 unannounced security screenings every year. These screenings, conducted with local law enforcement agencies as well as immigration, can be as simple as checking out cargo at a busy seaport. But more and more, they seem to involve giving airport-style pat-downs and screenings of unsuspecting passengers at bus terminals, ferries, and even subways. http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/...systems-yearly http://www.krgv.com/news/local/story...sNenRgu3w.cspx __________________ Alex S Webair Internet Development, Inc. 516.938.4100 Ext. 218 AIM: Webairalexs Twitter: Webairalex EMAIL: [email protected] WEB: http://www.webair.com

06-22-2011, 07:08 AM	#3
Emil Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,634	Things start to really take of in the US. Pretty scary. __________________ Free 🅑🅘🅣🅒🅞🅘🅝🅢 Every Hour (Yes, really. Free ₿itCoins.) (Signup with ONLY your Email and Password. You can also refer people and get even more.)

06-22-2011, 07:25 AM	#9
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06-22-2011, 07:28 AM	#11
webairalex Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 253	LABTOPS????? are you kidding me? http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080107/033235.shtml More Courts Saying That Customs Officers Can Look Through Your Laptop from the don't-keep-anything-secret-there dept We first discussed this a while back, but it appears that more US courts are agreeing that customs agents have every right to snoop through your computer before letting you into the country. This issue is getting some people concerned, as they point to the vast difference between bringing tangible goods into the country (which, reasonably, can be searched) and all of the information you contain on your laptop (which, increasingly, is like a backup brain). Of course, since most of the cases testing this theory involve people who were found with child porn on their laptop, it's no surprise that there hasn't been as much discussion of the cases. People generally don't want to be seen as siding with child porn. However, it is a much larger issue, especially considering how much personal and private information most folks have on their laptops these days. If these searches are allowed (as it appears they will be), how long until the process is abused? How long until some confidential or embarrassing information is leaked just because a customs official snoops through someone's laptop? http://articles.cnn.com/2008-02-11/t...s?_s=PM:TRAVEL http://gizmodo.com/5543757/australia...aptop-for-porn http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...hild-porn.html __________________ Alex S Webair Internet Development, Inc. 516.938.4100 Ext. 218 AIM: Webairalexs Twitter: Webairalex EMAIL: [email protected] WEB: http://www.webair.com

06-22-2011, 07:30 AM	#13
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	I expect TSA agent at every door, supermarkets, malls, movies, houses and everthing else. That should protect us, the citizens best possible way from ourselves. __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

06-22-2011, 07:08 AM	#2
marketsmart HOMICIDAL TROLL KILLER Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sunnybrook Institution for the Criminally Insane Posts: 20,419	i blame Obama and his invention of the Patriot Act... i also blame him for his failure to prevent 9/11.. i hope a Democrat gets elected in 2012.. i am really sick of these republican presidents messing everything up... .

06-22-2011, 07:14 AM	#4
iamtam So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,211	typical scare story tactics from the left wing nuts.

06-22-2011, 07:16 AM	#5
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

06-22-2011, 07:33 AM	#16
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06-22-2011, 07:38 AM	#20
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	god americans are so stupid ..

06-22-2011, 07:40 AM	#24
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	I should also say just because of a ruling in the 70s does not mean that they TSA is CURRENTLY breaking the 4th. __________________

06-22-2011, 08:01 AM	#29
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06-22-2011, 08:11 AM	#34
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,295	It depends on one's understanding of the word 'crime'. After taking power the National Socialists passed various laws; thus almost everything that was done by the Nazis (and thus directly or indirectly by Hitler) was perfectly legal. If something is permissable in law then it is not a crime and so such things as euthanising the mentally challenged, forbidding Jewish doctors to treat non-Jews, forbidding Jewish-non Jewish marriage, sending people to the ghetto were perfectly legal and technically not crimes. One of the problems with placing Nazis on trial after the War for 'crimes against humanity' was that there was no such thing as the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights when the Third Reich existed. Thus, the Nazis could claim that the courts had no jurisdiction or authority and that no crimes had been committed. Properly speaking, they were correct though, on a moral level, people found the actions of the Nazis to be abhorrent. Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_crime...#ixzz1Q1Pat0t9 __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available - just $50/mo Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale

06-22-2011, 08:14 AM	#36
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,295	The whole point being discussed is whether or not a "law" makes something right, and we all know that it really doesn't. Not sure why we are debating whether or not Adolf Hitler committed war crimes... war crimes are typically international and realistically don't hold much water. How many "war criminals" are running around the world, in perfect daylight, and nothing happens to them? Feel-good policy with little real weight. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available - just $50/mo Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale

06-22-2011, 09:39 AM	#43
RyuLion ClubDomCash.com Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 32,184	Don't care..they'll do what they have to do.. __________________ Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

06-22-2011, 09:43 AM	#44
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06-22-2011, 10:46 AM	#49
JamesGw Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,237	I'm really starting to consider moving. __________________ Giggles.com has a huge selection of sex toys. Need backlinks? Ask to guest post on our adult blog.