Do you Ron Paul fans agree? Ron Paul says: Default Now, or Suffer a More Expensive Crisis Later. - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Robbie · 07-27-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Cut the taxes that will bring the jobs back!
Wait ge paid no taxes 2010
And now they are moving their radiology headquarters from america to china
Hmmmmm

So raising taxes will change that? That's the part that always gets left out.

If companies are already finding the U.S. too expensive to produce things in...then how is raising the cost of business even further going to convince them to stay?

TheSquealer · 07-27-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Cut the taxes that will bring the jobs back!
Wait ge paid no taxes 2010
And now they are moving their radiology headquarters from america to china
Hmmmmm

Hmmm... whats the number one area of the medical business for lawsuits.. omg!! radiology. Maybe there is a good reason for moving that part of the business out of the most litigious nation on the planet.

GregE · 07-27-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So raising taxes will change that? That's the part that always gets left out.

If companies are already finding the U.S. too expensive to produce things in...then how is raising the cost of business even further going to convince them to stay?

You can't lower their taxes any lower than zero

And you can't get much in the way of revenue from a population of paper hat workers.

So what do we do? Yank Social Security out from under the old people and then get rid of their medicare?

Without the healthy tax revenue (income, sales, real estate and so on) provided by people with decent jobs this country is fucked.

It's as simple as that.

The smart thing would be to make it more, not less, expensive for them to outsource and they'd come running back like lost puppies.

Robbie · 07-27-2011, 01:16 PM

GregE what measures can we take to make it "more expensive" for them to outsource? It's still a "free" country (not really) so we can't force them to do things that are not in their own best interest. The only thing we can do is repeal NAFTA and close everything down with high tariffs...correct? If we do that...then not only does the average person have no money, a mortgage that's underwater, and maybe no job...but now he has everything go up in price on him.

The only reason that any companies don't pay tax (which isn't completely true because they pay matching Social Security taxes on every employee so the U.S. govt. double dips like the thieves they are), is because our scumbag politicians are ALL on the take (dems and repubs) and refuse to fix the tax structure.

You could "raise" all of their taxes and they still WILL NOT pay any. What needs to happen is to get rid of the gigantic tax laws and just hit a flat tax all the way across the board. NOTHING is an exemption. NOTHING can be written off. Just 15% for everybody and that would increase tax revenue.

But it STILL won't meet the amounts that Congress is spending. They could take 100% of everybodies money and still not do that. 10 Billion dollars a day!!!! It must be nice to spend other people's money and money that doesn't exist.

Relentless · 07-27-2011, 01:28 PM

Robbie,

'Enough cuts' to pay our obligations without borrowing a penny in August would create catastrophic problems.
The larger the entity the slower it changes direction. Making significant changes is absolutely necessary.
Those changes would take years to phase into effect without severly damaging the economy.

There is a huge difference between saying you have to be 78 years old to collect social security starting in 2015 versus saying you have to be 78 to collect starting next Wednesday and if you have already been collecting but are not yet 78 you will no longer be sent a check.

dyna mo · 07-27-2011, 01:32 PM

also, this debt limit issue is due to a $500 billion interest payment due in august.

Robbie · 07-27-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

Robbie,

'Enough cuts' to pay our obligations without borrowing a penny in August would create catastrophic problems.
The larger the entity the slower it changes direction. Making significant changes is absolutely necessary.
Those changes would take years to phase into effect without severly damaging the economy.

There is a huge difference between saying you have to be 78 years old to collect social security starting in 2015 versus saying you have to be 78 to collect starting next Wednesday and if you have already been collecting but are not yet 78 you will no longer be sent a check.

I know that they will move at a snails pace. Not only is it difficult to move a gigantic bureaucracy...but it behooves them to move slow so they can keep raping us financially as well.

BUT...I was saying that with 174 BILLION dollars forecast in revenue for the month of August we do NOT have to default on the money we borrowed. Isn't that what the gloom and doom forecast is all about?

The problem is that they are going to spend 303 BILLION in August. Yes, I know we have to meet our obligations (entitlements and military)...but couldn't they just at least PRETEND to slow down and immediately stop spending on everything else? And at least begin the process of bringing home ALL of our troops from overseas and stop being the world's policeman?

Yeah, I know they can't do that in a few days...but they aren't even CONSIDERING it for the future. They are making a teeny-tiny budget "cut" (that isn't even a real cut...just a "slowdown" in future spending) spread out over ten years and then they are going to raise the imaginary "Debt Ceiling" that they never adhere to and then the news will drop this subject and move on to something else.

Just like healthcare was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD for a couple of months, then Mexicans coming into the U.S. was THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD for a couple of months, now this b.s. is.

And next week...it'll be Charlie Sheen or something else stupid. Meanwhile Boehner, Reid, and Obama will all be laughing all the way to the bank and marveling at how easy it is to keep the general population (us) distracted.

David Copperfield and other magicians could learn a thing or two from our politicians about sleight of hand.

Robbie · 07-27-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

also, this debt limit issue is due to a $500 billion interest payment due in august.

Is that the yearly interest payment? My God...we are fucked.

The biggest companies don't make that much in total revenue in a year! Much less could we tax them all to the ground.

I'm not thinking about the oil companies though...how much does one of them make? Maybe it's time to declare oil a matter of national defense and nationalize them to finance the govt.

onwebcam · 07-27-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Is that the yearly interest payment? My God...we are fucked.

The biggest companies don't make that much in total revenue in a year! Much less could we tax them all to the ground.

I'm not thinking about the oil companies though...how much does one of them make? Maybe it's time to declare oil a matter of national defense and nationalize them to finance the govt.

6% fixed interest on 14 trillion. You do the math.

dyna mo · 07-27-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Is that the yearly interest payment? My God...we are fucked.

The biggest companies don't make that much in total revenue in a year! Much less could we tax them all to the ground.

I'm not thinking about the oil companies though...how much does one of them make? Maybe it's time to declare oil a matter of national defense and nationalize them to finance the govt.

you know, i tried to look into that when i came across this info, i was curious too, but i couldn't find the exact schedule on this balloon payment. i got the impression it comes due more often than 1x year though.

dyna mo · 07-27-2011, 02:36 PM

the Bipartisan Policy Center titled ?Debt Limit Analysis? reminds us, aside from the actual deficit funding math, which is that in August there is a $134.3 billion cash shortfall that has to be funded with debt, there is a far greater risk. Or, put numerically, 467.4 billion far greater risks. This is the amount of debt that matures through August 31, and has to be rolled over or the US is bankrupt? in every sense of the word. Once again, America?s politicians and media get broadsided by the definition of gross versus net. Because, in reality, the inability to issue more debt post August 3 means a halt to all new debt issuance. Which, unfortunately because it means Geithner?s scaremongering is actually correct, would imply the end for the debt ponzi.

Below is the maturity schedule in August from the BPC:

And their commentary, which recaps what we said 14 months ago:

Treasury must ?roll over? almost $500 b in debt that matures during August 2011
New debt is issued and the proceeds are used to repay the maturing debt plus interest due
Treasury will require market access throughout August to avoid defaulting on maturing debt
About $380 b in short-term T-Bills maturing, plus $90 b in long-term securities
Quarterly refunding auction on August 15
And that?s not it. On a Net basis, there is in addition another $134.3 billion in deficit that must be satisfied somehow. Alas, after August 3rd it will become impossible to plunder savings accounts going forward which means a game over in the kick the can down the road game:

Breaking down the spending side:

The BPC?s observations on what happens on August 4 absent a deal are rather spot on:

If the debt ceiling is not raised by August 2, all three ratings agencies will put the United States on watch for a downgrade, at a minimum. Fitch (6/8/11):
?If the debt ceiling is not raised by the [X Date] and timely and full payment of its obligations, including Treasuries, is not secure, the U.S. sovereign rating will be placed on Rating Watch Negative.?
An actual downgrade would cause major losses among holders
Even without downgrade, it is likely that rates would increase, perhaps significantly
Less likely, but possible, that Treasury would lose market access during such an unprecedented event and default
As a reminder we are now 32 days away from D-Day, and about 60 days from the need to fund half a trillion, all of it with new gross debt issuance.

To date, there has been no progress in D.C. at all. Will there be progress in the next 4 weeks? They better, or as demonstrated, the extend and pretend game, contrary to the well-meaning intentions of the likes of Drucknemiller, is about to come to a very violent end.

Robbie · 07-27-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

If the debt ceiling is not raised by August 2, all three ratings agencies will put the United States on watch for a downgrade

The commentators (I can't call anybody on Fox or CNN "news anchors" anymore) on CNN are reporting that Standard & Poor's are probably going to lower the U.S. from the AAA rating anyway.

They are saying that unless the U.S. shows a REAL plan to address the deficit (including no more deficit spending every day) that they are going to lower it whether the imaginary "debt ceiling" is raised or not.

The U.S. has been AAA since this was started in 1917. We were AAA all through WW1, The Great Depression, and WW2.
But we are so far in debt now that it doesn't appear likely we can service this much debt no matter WHAT we do.

And yet...Washington just keeps spending right now as I'm typing. You'd think at the very LEAST they would shut shit down while they carried on with this masquerade...but no: Somewhere a "bridge to nowhere" is being built, a 1.2 million dollar missile is killing some Arabs in Libya, and soldiers around the world are riding in tanks, and jets, and humvees burning a billion dollars worth of fuel (and for you liberals: destroying the environment).

dyna mo · 07-28-2011, 06:36 PM

ron paul 2012

07-27-2011, 01:16 PM	#104
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	GregE what measures can we take to make it "more expensive" for them to outsource? It's still a "free" country (not really) so we can't force them to do things that are not in their own best interest. The only thing we can do is repeal NAFTA and close everything down with high tariffs...correct? If we do that...then not only does the average person have no money, a mortgage that's underwater, and maybe no job...but now he has everything go up in price on him. The only reason that any companies don't pay tax (which isn't completely true because they pay matching Social Security taxes on every employee so the U.S. govt. double dips like the thieves they are), is because our scumbag politicians are ALL on the take (dems and repubs) and refuse to fix the tax structure. You could "raise" all of their taxes and they still WILL NOT pay any. What needs to happen is to get rid of the gigantic tax laws and just hit a flat tax all the way across the board. NOTHING is an exemption. NOTHING can be written off. Just 15% for everybody and that would increase tax revenue. But it STILL won't meet the amounts that Congress is spending. They could take 100% of everybodies money and still not do that. 10 Billion dollars a day!!!! It must be nice to spend other people's money and money that doesn't exist. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-27-2011, 01:28 PM	#105
Relentless www.EngineFood.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,697	Robbie, 'Enough cuts' to pay our obligations without borrowing a penny in August would create catastrophic problems. The larger the entity the slower it changes direction. Making significant changes is absolutely necessary. Those changes would take years to phase into effect without severly damaging the economy. There is a huge difference between saying you have to be 78 years old to collect social security starting in 2015 versus saying you have to be 78 to collect starting next Wednesday and if you have already been collecting but are not yet 78 you will no longer be sent a check. __________________ Website Secure \| Engine Food ICQ# 266-942-896

07-27-2011, 01:32 PM	#106
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,654	also, this debt limit issue is due to a $500 billion interest payment due in august.

07-27-2011, 02:36 PM	#111
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,654	the Bipartisan Policy Center titled ?Debt Limit Analysis? reminds us, aside from the actual deficit funding math, which is that in August there is a $134.3 billion cash shortfall that has to be funded with debt, there is a far greater risk. Or, put numerically, 467.4 billion far greater risks. This is the amount of debt that matures through August 31, and has to be rolled over or the US is bankrupt? in every sense of the word. Once again, America?s politicians and media get broadsided by the definition of gross versus net. Because, in reality, the inability to issue more debt post August 3 means a halt to all new debt issuance. Which, unfortunately because it means Geithner?s scaremongering is actually correct, would imply the end for the debt ponzi. Below is the maturity schedule in August from the BPC: And their commentary, which recaps what we said 14 months ago: Treasury must ?roll over? almost $500 b in debt that matures during August 2011 New debt is issued and the proceeds are used to repay the maturing debt plus interest due Treasury will require market access throughout August to avoid defaulting on maturing debt About $380 b in short-term T-Bills maturing, plus $90 b in long-term securities Quarterly refunding auction on August 15 And that?s not it. On a Net basis, there is in addition another $134.3 billion in deficit that must be satisfied somehow. Alas, after August 3rd it will become impossible to plunder savings accounts going forward which means a game over in the kick the can down the road game: Breaking down the spending side: The BPC?s observations on what happens on August 4 absent a deal are rather spot on: If the debt ceiling is not raised by August 2, all three ratings agencies will put the United States on watch for a downgrade, at a minimum. Fitch (6/8/11): ?If the debt ceiling is not raised by the [X Date] and timely and full payment of its obligations, including Treasuries, is not secure, the U.S. sovereign rating will be placed on Rating Watch Negative.? An actual downgrade would cause major losses among holders Even without downgrade, it is likely that rates would increase, perhaps significantly Less likely, but possible, that Treasury would lose market access during such an unprecedented event and default As a reminder we are now 32 days away from D-Day, and about 60 days from the need to fund half a trillion, all of it with new gross debt issuance. To date, there has been no progress in D.C. at all. Will there be progress in the next 4 weeks? They better, or as demonstrated, the extend and pretend game, contrary to the well-meaning intentions of the likes of Drucknemiller, is about to come to a very violent end.

07-28-2011, 06:36 PM	#113
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,654	ron paul 2012