What would you do? Money vs Ethics

[buildingfutures]

So here's the deal. A few weeks ago I came across a very nice 4 letter .nl domain. It's an existing word and it's a huge restaurant chain over here in Holland.

I emailed the host who owned the domain saying I was interested to buy the domain, since it hadn't been updated in a few years. I asked them if they could forward my email to the owner.

A few days later they reply saying they can move the domain to me for the reg fee + some administration cost. Obviously I was exited.

Yesterday night I get an email from the previous owner asking how the hell I got his domain. He now claims the host made a "mistake" but are ignoring his tickets and requests to solve the issue. I haven't heard from the host yet either.

He's asking (very politely and genuine) if I could return the domain name to him.

Now, I'm a very ethical and standup guy, but I don't see how a host can screw up something like this? I mean, if he paid for the domain, it's his. If he hasn't paid, tough luck, you lost your domain. But for some reason they're not responding.

The domain is very solid and I can probably sell it for a nice amount. Nothing like $xx,xxx but still a good ROI.

How would you deal with this? Ask the host for some kind of settlement? This ain't America unfortunately, I can't go ahead and sue them for their fuck ups and make some money while I'm at it

[L-Pink]

Ask for an in house credit.

[buildingfutures]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Ask for an in house credit.

Makes sense. But then they'll decide the value of the domain probably. Or I'm going to have to go into a long and boring negotiation about the value and then still end up with credit for a hosting company. No clue what to do with that right now.

In any case, I do like the suggestion and may have to go with that. Thanks dude

[CaptainHowdy]

You're playing by the rules, "ethics" has nothing to do with that ...

[alias]

Is it trademarked?

[moeloubani]

Be really nice and ask him for something at cost, see what he says.

[Wilsy]

If it's not trademarked it is yours to do as you please as far as i can see

[buildingfutures]

Originally Posted by alias

Is it trademarked?

Its not. It's a generic term/sport name.

[alias]

Lots of possibilities then, open the line to negotiation and see what you guys can work out.

[junction]

Since you played by the rules, here is what I would do:

How much did I invest in the domain?

What is a reasonable assessment of the domain value?

Split the difference, and sell it to the original owner.

[BlackCrayon]

transfer it to another registrar so they can't take it back and do whatever you want it with.

[seeandsee]

that could be your first move, get domain away from there if you can

[Roald]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

Its not. It's a generic term/sport name.

god dammit now I want to know the chain name lol

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

Makes sense. But then they'll decide the value of the domain probably. Or I'm going to have to go into a long and boring negotiation about the value and then still end up with credit for a hosting company. No clue what to do with that right now.

In any case, I do like the suggestion and may have to go with that. Thanks dude

make sure he is the actual owner and then return it for cost incurred

[wehateporn]

For me it would depend on how I was asked; if I was asked nicely and treated with respect he'd get it back, otherwise I'd play by "The Rules"

[AmeliaG]

It sounds like he wasn't using the domain. Maybe sell it and split the gross, minus reg fees?

[Emil]

If you didn't do anything wrong, just make him pay!

[Caligari]

wait a second, you're coming on GFY to ask about an issue of ethics?

[will76]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

So here's the deal. A few weeks ago I came across a very nice 4 letter .nl domain. It's an existing word and it's a huge restaurant chain over here in Holland.

I emailed the host who owned the domain saying I was interested to buy the domain, since it hadn't been updated in a few years. I asked them if they could forward my email to the owner.

A few days later they reply saying they can move the domain to me for the reg fee + some administration cost. Obviously I was exited.

Yesterday night I get an email from the previous owner asking how the hell I got his domain. He now claims the host made a "mistake" but are ignoring his tickets and requests to solve the issue. I haven't heard from the host yet either.

He's asking (very politely and genuine) if I could return the domain name to him.

Now, I'm a very ethical and standup guy, but I don't see how a host can screw up something like this? I mean, if he paid for the domain, it's his. If he hasn't paid, tough luck, you lost your domain. But for some reason they're not responding.

The domain is very solid and I can probably sell it for a nice amount. Nothing like $xx,xxx but still a good ROI.

How would you deal with this? Ask the host for some kind of settlement? This ain't America unfortunately, I can't go ahead and sue them for their fuck ups and make some money while I'm at it

It wasn't yours to start with. It cost you zero time and a couple bucks, which I am sure you will be refunded. You have nothing invested in this. Its also very likely going to turn into a big lawsuit, which you will be dragged in even though you did nothing wrong. I would transfer it back to the owner, would be nice though if you could get some future business out of the deal from the owner or at least some free food for "doing the right thing".

It's the name of the guys business, put yourself in his shoes. Obviously the register fucked up. Now if the domain had expired then all bets off but the owner did nothing wrong (besides use a crappy register) it's the name of his business and he was paying his reg fees. To be honest I don't see how the original owners loses it. He will have to sue the register and at the end of the day I wouldn't be surprised if you have to give it back. How can the original owner get fucked out of his domain when he did nothing to lose it???

Do you really want to be involved with all of that when you have nothing vested into it? Going the good route could make you more money in the long run and save you a lot of head aches. Most people here are very short sighted. You even admitted that something didn't seem right from the start, if the domain is worth several thousand and the *register* decided to give it to you for free while someone else still owned it. You never did hear from or deal with the owner.... its obvious the deal was messed up to start with.

[Sid70]

If you are a legitimate buyer you have nothing to worry about... but as a previous post says there are ways to settle it wiser...

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Roald

god dammit now I want to know the chain name lol

Puma.nl?

[raymor]

First, what we do defines who we are. So in considering different options consider what kind of person you want to be.

I wonder if the host was playing "tech guy" and registered the domain in their name even though it really belonged to their customer? That happens a lot. If so, ethically and morally it's basically stolen property, but that could be a good thing. In that case, the owner is now pissed at their host / tech guy for selling their name out from under them and needs to start paying someone else to manage their site; someone who knows how to runs sites and will do so with integrity. Get them on the phone and find out what happened from their point of view. That could be a very profitable relationship.

Otherwise, talk to the restaurateur and find something that works well for both. Maybe they'd be glad to trade you a $100 gift card at their restaurant and you'd be very happy with that too. I'm sure you can figure out something that makes you both happy.

However it works out, do something that you feel good about, something that makes you like who you are.

[Bladewire]

I don't see this as money vs ethics as you obtained the domain legally and without malice. So keep the domain and develop it and / or sell it

Earlier this year I sold my Alphaflash.com domain for $xx,xxx

The domain had reached the final stage of the expiration process without my knowledge and was a week away from going up for public availability. I received a call at home from a woman with an accent who said she was interested in buying the domain. She said she'd been trying to contact me for months but my domain info was incorrect and this was her last effort to contact me. I thought that was odd.

I looked at my domain and realized it was expired so quickly spent the best $6.95 of my life to renew it. After doing a bit of research I found that this company was registering Alpha Flash as a service mark/trade mark in many countries with one pending in the U.S. The negotiation process was a few months but ended very well for me.

I bet many millions of dollars are lost every year by domain owners losing domains that others would pay them well for. It's just part of the business , not unethical IMO.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Squirtit

I don't see this as money vs ethics as you obtained the domain legally and without malice. So keep the domain and develop it and / or sell it

Earlier this year I sold my Alphaflash.com domain for $xx,xxx

The domain had reached the final stage of the expiration process without my knowledge and was a week away from going up for public availability. I received a call at home from a woman with an accent who said she was interested in buying the domain. She said she'd been trying to contact me for months but my domain info was incorrect and this was her last effort to contact me. I thought that was odd.

I looked at my domain and realized it was expired so quickly spent the best $6.95 of my life to renew it. After doing a bit of research I found that this company was registering Alpha Flash as a service mark/trade mark in many countries with one pending in the U.S. The negotiation process was a few months but ended very well for me.

I bet many millions of dollars are lost every year by domain owners losing domains that others would pay them well for. It's just part of the business , not unethical IMO.

the difference is the original owner didn't let it expire. It was paid for. The original owner *also* didn't do anything wrong. The register had no legal standing to sell it. The register can't touch someone else's domain unless it is expired.

Imagine your best domain, that your whole business revolves around is suddenly gone at not fault of your own because your register made a mistake. How does it feel. Do you really split hairs and say, ah well the new guy who got it is swell because he did nothing wrong. No, you want your fucking domain back. Sure you sue the register but that could take a long time to resolve and not 100% sure it even gets you the domain back.

Regardless I think the register would either have some type of recourse to get the domain back, or via lawsuit the rightful owner would get it back one way or another. The op might have to sue the register for taking it back from him for some monetary value/loss, but at the end I would be surprised the original owner doesn't get it back since the register messed up. A domain can't be replaced, but the money can and all the domain is worth to the op is the potential to make a fast buck.

It's basically stolen property. Your landlord goes into your house and sells your TV to someone else. It's stolen property, you should get it back and the person who bought it shouldn't be allowed to keep it. Is the person who buys property that they find out is stolen, then wants to keep it... is he really "playing by the rules". I don't think so.

[CurrentlySober]

Do a poo in a box, and send it via post to the original owner. Tell him the domain name is in the box

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by will76

the difference is the original owner didn't let it expire. It was paid for.

OH SHIT!

I read the OP wrong I think.

So do I have it right now? This four letter .nl was registered to a host, on behalf of an owner, and the host sold the domain for profit without the owners permission or knowledge?

Give it back at cost. Very simple.

If you don't give it back ICANN will, as the domain is clearly owned by the owner, not the host. You contacted the host and asked them to contact the owner so you could buy the domain from the owner. The host did not do as you asked or intended. The host sold the owners domain without his permission or knowledge. ICANN gives the domain back to rightful owner if you don't. Case closed

[DWB]

Let him have it but have him pay whatever fees you put out.

[papill0n]

you must do what you think is right luke

[AmeliaG]

I'm not sure if I read that right. Is the previous owner the person whose the restaurant chain belongs to or someone who wasn't developing the domain but could profit from selling it to the restaurant chain?

[will76]

Originally Posted by Squirtit

OH SHIT!

I read the OP wrong I think.

So do I have it right now? This four letter .nl was registered to a host, on behalf of an owner, and the host sold the domain for profit without the owners permission or knowledge?

Give it back at cost. Very simple.

If you don't give it back ICANN will, as the domain is clearly owned by the owner, not the host. You contacted the host and asked them to contact the owner so you could buy the domain from the owner. The host did not do as you asked or intended. The host sold the owners domain without his permission or knowledge. ICANN gives the domain back to rightful owner if you don't. Case closed

You got it right now, except the register didn't even sell it for profit, just transferred it for the registration fees. So it had to be a huge fuck up on their end to basically give away one of their clients domains. I don't how how any competent company could do that.

[Dubya]

what registrar? there are some very shady ones out there.

[will76]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

Now, I'm a very ethical and standup guy, but I don't see how a host can screw up something like this? I mean, if he paid for the domain, it's his. If he hasn't paid, tough luck, you lost your domain. But for some reason they're not responding.

Reading this again.... you said you emailed the register about a domain name that hadn't been updated in a couple years (meaning the website is old), to see if they would email the owner if he would be interested in selling. This tells me two things (which you left out, but i guess was implied).
1. The domain wasn't expired, if it was expired you would have purchased it out right.
2. The owner didn't have his name on the whois, for some reason the register (must be a small company) registered the domain in their name, for the owner.

Assuming the above is correct then there is no other explanation than the host made a mistake and didn't consult with the current owner. If you say you are an ethical and honest guy then I think you just answered your own question of what you should do next.

[porno jew]

not always "cased closed." there are plenty of mom and pop hosts who register domains in their name for their clients. the host may legitimately own it.

Originally Posted by Squirtit

OH SHIT!

I read the OP wrong I think.

So do I have it right now? This four letter .nl was registered to a host, on behalf of an owner, and the host sold the domain for profit without the owners permission or knowledge?

Give it back at cost. Very simple.

If you don't give it back ICANN will, as the domain is clearly owned by the owner, not the host. You contacted the host and asked them to contact the owner so you could buy the domain from the owner. The host did not do as you asked or intended. The host sold the owners domain without his permission or knowledge. ICANN gives the domain back to rightful owner if you don't. Case closed

[Dubya]

Originally Posted by will76

Reading this again.... you said you emailed the register about a domain name that hadn't been updated in a couple years (meaning the website is old), to see if they would email the owner if he would be interested in selling. This tells me two things (which you left out, but i guess was implied).
1. The domain wasn't expired, if it was expired you would have purchased it out right.
2. The owner didn't have his name on the whois, for some reason the register (must be a small company) registered the domain in their name, for the owner.

Assuming the above is correct then there is no other explanation than the host made a mistake and didn't consult with the current owner. If you say you are an ethical and honest guy then I think you just answered your own question of what you should do next.

It probably just had private whois.

[porno jew]

was the domain transferred to you? then how could the host do it if he didn't own it?

he owned it. he sold it to you. keep it and move on.

[DaddyHalbucks]

If the person who sold it to you was not the actual owner, then it might be something similar to receiving stolen property. Are you a thief, or did you conspire with one? Make the right choice, and settle that question definitively and in your favor.

Something similar happened to me once. The rightful owner got the domain back for $0.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by porno jew

not always "cased closed." there are plenty of mom and pop hosts who register domains in their name for their clients. the host may legitimately own it.

Have you never heard of agency? Just because someone registered it for a client does not necessarily mean they own it.

[HomerSimpson]

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson

looks like he decided to lick a little vag

[Deputy Chief Command]

Originally Posted by will76

the difference is the original owner didn't let it expire. It was paid for. The original owner *also* didn't do anything wrong. The register had no legal standing to sell it. The register can't touch someone else's domain unless it is expired.

how do you know that? I vaguely remember something about how .nl domains NEVER expire .. so even if you stop paying the domain will still be in the hands of the person you regged it with .. and since you stopped paying it is no longer your domain .. not saying this is what happened here. .but how can you be so sure ?

[Deputy Chief Command]

I just looked it up to be sure.. it is indeed true that .nl domains don't automatically expire.. if you don't pay for the renewal the domain stays with the company that did the registration . they can then choose to keep it .. or they can ask sidn.nl ( the company in charge of .nl) to let the domain become available for registration again


so in this situation it is very likely that the previous owner did not pay for renewal .. OP then contacted his registrar and he gave it to him if he paid reg fee.; all legit here. I think

[seanchai]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. FEBO - my favourite chain after a Dutch night of drinks and smokes!

[Deputy Chief Command]

Originally Posted by seanchai

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. FEBO - my favourite chain after a Dutch night of drinks and smokes!

I am huuuuungryyyyyy

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

So here's the deal. A few weeks ago I came across a very nice 4 letter .nl domain.

sidn.nl ?

[Zorgman]

Business is business. Sell it and make yourself some money.
You don't get anywhere by being nice.

[Captain Kawaii]

Give it back to him at cost. And if I understood raymor's post correctly, maybe you can manage things for him domain-wise and make money in the future in some way. If he was decent to you and you realize he was boned by not being up to speed, do the right thing, karma wise. What goes around comes around. Plus you may get free dinner for life, who knows.

[CPA37710T]

Originally Posted by buildingfutures

So here's the deal. A few weeks ago I came across a very nice 4 letter .nl domain. It's an existing word and it's a huge restaurant chain over here in Holland.

I emailed the host who owned the domain saying I was interested to buy the domain, since it hadn't been updated in a few years. I asked them if they could forward my email to the owner.

A few days later they reply saying they can move the domain to me for the reg fee + some administration cost. Obviously I was exited.

Yesterday night I get an email from the previous owner asking how the hell I got his domain. He now claims the host made a "mistake" but are ignoring his tickets and requests to solve the issue. I haven't heard from the host yet either.

He's asking (very politely and genuine) if I could return the domain name to him.

Now, I'm a very ethical and standup guy, but I don't see how a host can screw up something like this? I mean, if he paid for the domain, it's his. If he hasn't paid, tough luck, you lost your domain. But for some reason they're not responding.

The domain is very solid and I can probably sell it for a nice amount. Nothing like $xx,xxx but still a good ROI.

How would you deal with this? Ask the host for some kind of settlement? This ain't America unfortunately, I can't go ahead and sue them for their fuck ups and make some money while I'm at it

As silly as it sounds.. return it back without thinking. Think what would happen if it happened to you.. trust me if you do this you'll feel great. Money always comes and go, being proud of yourself for doing things right is always a good memory

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Hope this helped...

ADG

[18teens]

I would give the guy his domain back. That would be the ethical thing to do.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Deputy Chief Command

I just looked it up to be sure.. it is indeed true that .nl domains don't automatically expire.. if you don't pay for the renewal the domain stays with the company that did the registration . they can then choose to keep it .. or they can ask sidn.nl ( the company in charge of .nl) to let the domain become available for registration again


so in this situation it is very likely that the previous owner did not pay for renewal .. OP then contacted his registrar and he gave it to him if he paid reg fee.; all legit here. I think

never heard of that before but then I never paid attention to a .nl domain nor did I think for a second that all tld's wouldn't work the exact same way. Why would they never expire? Doesn't make sense. Why would that be any different than any other domains, where you don't renew it goes back to the public.

If what you said is true, then I would just become buddy buddy with the register, not pay for renews and have them opt not to turn my domain back in and I would never have to pay again... seems like a way to cheat the system and I would think ICANN has that shit shut down tight.

Originally Posted by Zorgman

Business is business. Sell it and make yourself some money.
You don't get anywhere by being nice.

Assuming the register made a mistake, what part of buying someone else's domain that should never been sold to you in the first place is considered " business". What business is done in buying stolen property... Again assuming that is the case since the OP failed to fill in all the details, especially if .nl has some wacky rules with not paying.