Bachmann: Why is there a Department of Education?

[GatorB]

Why does it NOT shock me she asks this question?

I also find it ironic while she pontificates on how the federal government shouldn't be doing this or that, that as President she would have the federal government ban abortion and gay marriage, two things that under the purview of "states rights".

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ion/?hpt=hp_t1

[L-Pink]

With the state of our economy and questionable foreign affairs the mere mention of abortion and gay marriage shows irresponsibly for anyone running for President.

.

[scuba steve]

this girl is batshit looney tunes. it'll be an embarrassment to us as a nation if she continues, actually runs, and gets votes

[directfiesta]

When I read what most americans post here, I have to agree with her ...

At least, the money could be spent elsewhere .. like ... bombing a country somewhere

[sweetcuties]

She's truly a dumb bitch

[bronco67]

Imagine if we ditched that Joint Strike Fighter program, and threw that money into education? Or dropped one of our stupid wars? I know money doesn't solve everything, but cutting teachers and funding for schools is ensuring we're going to have a nation of thugs and dummies running things. Our priorities are so fucking backward.

[DudeRick]

Maybe because...

?Every state in the US already has a Department of Education there is no reason for duplication at the Federal level, especially since there is no authority in the US Constitution for the Federal Government to be involved in education.

What are the benefits of eliminating the Department of Education?

More tax dollars would get to the schools instead of being eaten up by bureaucracy.

Lets follow a Tax Dollar in it's trip through the US DOE to the local school district.

1. Right off the top 25 cents goes to administrative costs.
2. State DOE's and or districts have to file paperwork to get the money from the US DOE there goes another 10 cents for administrative costs.
3. Every US DOE funding program contains unfunded mandates. Local school districts not only have to comply with those mandates (25 to 35 cents) but document compliance (10 to 15 cents in administrative costs).

So how much of that dollar finally gets to the school and benefits the student?

about 30 cents!

Eliminate the US DOE, Unfunded Mandates etc. and how much of the dollar actually gets to the school to benefit the students?

about 80 cents!

If the goal is to get the funding where it will do the most good - to the students dumping the US DOE makes the most sense.

What are the alternatives?

Alternatives, why does there need to be an alternative? The US Department of Education did not become a Cabinet level agency until 1980...

There was no Department of Education during the Industrial Revolution, The US Put a man on the moon without the Department of Education in fact the US was a world leader in both Technological development and innovation before the existence of the US Department of Education.

During the 30 years since the formation of the US Department of Education the cost of education has gone up, the quality of education has gone down and the US position as a world leader in discovery, technology and innovation has declined.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by DudeRick

Maybe because...

?Every state in the US already has a Department of Education there is no reason for duplication at the Federal level, especially since there is no authority in the US Constitution for the Federal Government to be involved in education.

There is no authority in the US constitution over abortion and gay marriage or ANY kind of marriage for that matter. Care to explain that Einstien?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by GatorB

There is no authority in the US constitution over abortion and gay marriage or ANY kind of marriage for that matter. Care to explain that Einstien?

There is also no authority for the government to print money or not have currencies back by anything either, so what's your point jackass?

[Joshua G]

what does the dept of education actually do? care to explain that, einstein?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by DudeRick

Maybe because...

?Every state in the US already has a Department of Education there is no reason for duplication at the Federal level, especially since there is no authority in the US Constitution for the Federal Government to be involved in education.

What are the benefits of eliminating the Department of Education?

More tax dollars would get to the schools instead of being eaten up by bureaucracy.

Lets follow a Tax Dollar in it's trip through the US DOE to the local school district.

1. Right off the top 25 cents goes to administrative costs.
2. State DOE's and or districts have to file paperwork to get the money from the US DOE there goes another 10 cents for administrative costs.
3. Every US DOE funding program contains unfunded mandates. Local school districts not only have to comply with those mandates (25 to 35 cents) but document compliance (10 to 15 cents in administrative costs).

So how much of that dollar finally gets to the school and benefits the student?

about 30 cents!

Eliminate the US DOE, Unfunded Mandates etc. and how much of the dollar actually gets to the school to benefit the students?

about 80 cents!

If the goal is to get the funding where it will do the most good - to the students dumping the US DOE makes the most sense.

What are the alternatives?

Alternatives, why does there need to be an alternative? The US Department of Education did not become a Cabinet level agency until 1980...

There was no Department of Education during the Industrial Revolution, The US Put a man on the moon without the Department of Education in fact the US was a world leader in both Technological development and innovation before the existence of the US Department of Education.

During the 30 years since the formation of the US Department of Education the cost of education has gone up, the quality of education has gone down and the US position as a world leader in discovery, technology and innovation has declined.

So? Who gives a fuck about the kids? It is about control.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by The Demon

There is also no authority for the government to print money or not have currencies back by anything either, so what's your point jackass?

fuck off and die. Seriously. No one asked you for your opinion. Quit starting shit like an asshole. I don't take the opinions of those SEVERAL years away from 30 seriously. WTF do you know about anything?

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

what does the dept of education actually do? care to explain that, einstein?

Nice dodge. Let's totally avoid the whole point of my thread which is Bachman's HYPOCRISY.

[digitaldivas]

She looks like a friggin Heroin addict in that pic, people! Why are we even discussing this?

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Nice dodge. Let's totally avoid the whole point of my thread which is Bachman's HYPOCRISY.

social conservatives are flaming hypocrites on social issues. their total abrogation on states rights with respect to gays, abortion disgusts me. I wouldnt however use the dept of education as an example of hypocrisy. That dept doesnt do jack shit.

[PornoMonster]

Bachmann/Palin 2012

The Movie Idiocracy

HA

[J. Falcon]

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

what does the dept of education actually do? care to explain that, einstein?

I don't pretend to believe this stuff, but here's this, for whatever it's worth...

When Congress created the Department in 1979, it declared these purposes:

1) to strengthen the Federal commitment to ensuring access to equal educational opportunity for every individual;
2) to supplement and complement the efforts of States, the local school systems and other instrumentalities of the States, the private sector, public and private educational institutions, public and private nonprofit educational research institutions, community-based organizations, parents, and students to improve the quality of education;
3) to encourage the increased involvement of the public, parents, and students in Federal education programs;
4) to promote improvements in the quality and usefulness of education through federally supported research, evaluation, and sharing of information;
5) to improve the coordination of Federal education programs;
6) to improve the management and efficiency of Federal education activities, especially with respect to the process, procedures, and administrative structures for the dispersal of Federal funds, as well as the reduction of unnecessary and duplicative burdens and constraints, including unnecessary paperwork, on the recipients of Federal funds; and
7) to increase the accountability of Federal education programs to the President, the Congress and the public. (Section 102, Public Law 96-88)

[Joshua G]

there is a reason repubs target the dept of education. It is nothing but a tool to direct taxpayer money to teachers unions, the biggest campaign supporters of democrats.

The real hypocrisy GatorB, is that republicans talk of closing it, but don't actually do it when they are in power.

[kane]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

The real hypocrisy GatorB, is that republicans talk of closing it, but don't actually do it when they are in power.

Repubs talk about a lot of stuff, but don't actually do it when they are in power.

The standard issues republican platform is: cut taxes, reduce the size of the government, reduce the debt and spend money wisely, cut/curb entitlements and fight the culture war (IE abortion, education, religion etc.)

Yet none of them ever actually do that. They increase the size of the government, they increase spending, they don't come anywhere near balancing the budget. Bush at least cut taxes. They don't wage the social war. They promise and promise and don't deliver and yet when they are out of power and running again they break out the same platform and the same people believe that this time it will be different.

[$5 submissions]

Originally Posted by GatorB

There is no authority in the US constitution over abortion and gay marriage or ANY kind of marriage for that matter. Care to explain that Einstien?

The Commerce Clause has been ripped wider than that goatse dude's anus...

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by kane

Repubs talk about a lot of stuff, but don't actually do it when they are in power.

The standard issues republican platform is: cut taxes, reduce the size of the government, reduce the debt and spend money wisely, cut/curb entitlements and fight the culture war (IE abortion, education, religion etc.)

Yet none of them ever actually do that. They increase the size of the government, they increase spending, they don't come anywhere near balancing the budget. Bush at least cut taxes. They don't wage the social war. They promise and promise and don't deliver and yet when they are out of power and running again they break out the same platform and the same people believe that this time it will be different.

yep. this explains the rise of the tea party, & its total unwillingness to compromise. Tea party is a civil war inside the republican party, & they are intolerant of the big government repubs that talk conservative, vote liberal. Pretty soon all the repubs will be Rick Perry clones.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

yep. this explains the rise of the tea party, & its total unwillingness to compromise. Tea party is a civil war inside the republican party, & they are intolerant of the big government repubs that talk conservative, vote liberal. Pretty soon all the repubs will be Rick Perry clones.

Rick is all talk all big gov

[Coup]

Well to be fair, education just hasn't improved since it's inception and, in fact, has done nothing but slide backwards. So what is the fucking point?

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by GatorB

fuck off and die. Seriously. No one asked you for your opinion. Quit starting shit like an asshole. I don't take the opinions of those SEVERAL years away from 30 seriously. WTF do you know about anything?

1. Nobody cares about your opinion here because you're clinically incompetent.
2. I was smarter than you when I reached middle school so it looks like you're playing catch up.
3. Stick to this business because your feeble mind cannot comprehend real world discussions.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Rick is all talk all big gov

they are all big govt. except ron paul.

The problem is the beltway. The white house, the capitol, the supreme court. They are so opulent & gorgeous. when your a new politician in town, the beauty, the lobby money, you become ensconced in a wealthy power trip. Republicans get drunk on the power that comes with the pork barrel, & suddenly they are free spending republicans.

Nothing short of radicals can resist the siren song of lobby money.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

what does the dept of education actually do? care to explain that, einstein?

Sigh...

The U.S. Department of Education is the agency of the federal government that establishes policy for, administers and coordinates most federal assistance to education. It assists the president in executing his education policies for the nation and in implementing laws enacted by Congress. The Department's mission is to serve America's students—to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access.

The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve more than 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 97,000 schools and 28,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan and work-study assistance to about 11 million postsecondary students.

When Congress created the Department in 1979, it declared these purposes:

to strengthen the Federal commitment to ensuring access to equal educational opportunity for every individual;

to supplement and complement the efforts of States, the local school systems and other instrumentalities of the States, the private sector, public and private educational institutions, public and private nonprofit educational research institutions, community-based organizations, parents, and students to improve the quality of education;
to encourage the increased involvement of the public, parents, and students in Federal education programs;

to promote improvements in the quality and usefulness of education through federally supported research, evaluation, and sharing of information;

to improve the coordination of Federal education programs;

to improve the management and efficiency of Federal education activities, especially with respect to the process, procedures, and administrative structures for the dispersal of Federal funds, as well as the reduction of unnecessary and duplicative burdens and constraints, including unnecessary paperwork, on the recipients of Federal funds;
and
to increase the accountability of Federal education programs to the President, the Congress and the public. (Section 102, Public Law 96-88)

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/whattoc.html



THIS is what they do, and THIS is what that dumb broad Bachman wants to get rid of.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Coup

Well to be fair, education just hasn't improved since it's inception and, in fact, has done nothing but slide backwards. So what is the fucking point?

You're kidding I hope.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by **********

You're kidding I hope.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_793185.html

The US department of education is a fucking failure. Deal with it.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Why does it NOT shock me she asks this question?

I would guess that could be attributed to the fact that you are a simpleminded retard, considering she didn't ask that question.

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by GatorB

fuck off and die. Seriously. No one asked you for your opinion. Quit starting shit like an asshole. I don't take the opinions of those SEVERAL years away from 30 seriously. WTF do you know about anything?

Eleven posts into the thread and you had to resort to personal attacks...man you're thin skinned

[Gouge]

Originally Posted by The Demon

1. Nobody cares about your opinion here because you're clinically incompetent.
2. I was smarter than you when I reached middle school so it looks like you're playing catch up.
3. Stick to this business because your feeble mind cannot comprehend real world discussions.

+1

[Paul Markham]

Cutting bureaucracy is good, so long as the system can function.

Giving the money direct to schools will mean each school has to have a bureaucrat or 3 to administer and run the financial side. Or do you really think head teachers are trained to do it?

They might know where to spend it, do they know how to spend it?

Would a bureaucrat in the school be better than a bureaucrat in an office 100s of miles away?

Does Bachmann just trash the system that's in place or also come up with a better one?

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Coup

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_793185.html

The US department of education is a fucking failure. Deal with it.

Deal with it? I'm Canadian.. YOU deal with it.....!

And to clarify, it's the schools and education system that is failing. The department of education is already having a tough time. Bachman, in her infinite wisdom, is trying to make a bad problem worse, not better.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by The Demon

There is also no authority for the government to print money

The constitution is only six pages. If you're interested in these things read it.

The Congress shall have Power To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities (printed notes aka greenbacks)

So printing money (coins and notes) IS one of the powers given to the federal government.

The constitution goes on say:
Powers of the States and People. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

"Running the schools" is one of those powers not delegated to the feds and therefore reserved to the states by the constitution. You could say that the feds SHOULD run the schools and advocate a constitutional amendment granting them that power, but until it's amended the plain language of the constitution reserves that to the states.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Cutting bureaucracy is good, so long as the system can function.

Giving the money direct to schools will mean each school has to have a bureaucrat or 3 to administer and run the financial side. Or do you really think head teachers are trained to do it?

They might know where to spend it, do they know how to spend it?

Would a bureaucrat in the school be better than a bureaucrat in an office 100s of miles away?

Does Bachmann just trash the system that's in place or also come up with a better one?

The problem in America isn't that each school has a bureaucrat or that there is one 100's of miles away deciding how the money is spent, it is that there are dozens of them all essentially doing the same job where none of them are needed.

The high school in my town has about 600 students which makes it roughly the same size as the high school I went to when I was a kid. When I was in high school we had 1 principal, 2 vice-principals (and the only reason for this was that we had two separate campuses so each campus had their own) and five counselors. Each grade had a counselor and the fifth one specialized in college stuff and helped the seniors get their college prep and applications etc together.

The school in my town today has 1 principal, 2 vice-principals, 8 counselors, a dean of students, an assistant dean of students and someone called a liaison to the the school board. So suddenly the same number of kids takes 6 more administrators to deal with. There are so many people in between the actual school boards and the schools as well as the where the money comes from and where it ends up that the whole system is messed up.

To me it is a perfect example of the problem with our government as a whole. We never downsize. If there is a problem we add people to try to fix it and if they can't we add more. Eventually it is so bloated it can't sustain itself.

[My Pimp]

In central europe the department for education has other duties, tool. This is not bad to save a lot of money.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by **********

it's the schools and education system that is failing.

With all of the resources supposedly poured into education in this country from the US dep on down there is absolutely no excuse for this. There is literally no aspect of our education system worth defending as far as I'm concerned. It's broken... completely and thoroughly.

Originally Posted by **********

Deal with it? I'm Canadian..

What's it like being concerned with the affairs of other countries? I'm American, I can't relate. heh

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by Coup

What's it like being concerned with the affairs of other countries? I'm American, I can't relate. heh

Seriously you said this? We stick our noses in everyone's business.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by kane

The problem in America isn't that each school has a bureaucrat or that there is one 100's of miles away deciding how the money is spent, it is that there are dozens of them all essentially doing the same job where none of them are needed.

The high school in my town has about 600 students which makes it roughly the same size as the high school I went to when I was a kid. When I was in high school we had 1 principal, 2 vice-principals (and the only reason for this was that we had two separate campuses so each campus had their own) and five counselors. Each grade had a counselor and the fifth one specialized in college stuff and helped the seniors get their college prep and applications etc together.

The school in my town today has 1 principal, 2 vice-principals, 8 counselors, a dean of students, an assistant dean of students and someone called a liaison to the the school board. So suddenly the same number of kids takes 6 more administrators to deal with. There are so many people in between the actual school boards and the schools as well as the where the money comes from and where it ends up that the whole system is messed up.

To me it is a perfect example of the problem with our government as a whole. We never downsize. If there is a problem we add people to try to fix it and if they can't we add more. Eventually it is so bloated it can't sustain itself.

Yes the high school in my area is only about 600 too. Our local government including the school board is run by inbred rednecks. The kind of idiots that think it's wise to start school the first week in AUGUST in Tennessee. You know when it's 97 degrees outside with a heat index of 120.

And if you're an "outsider" like me run can forget about running for local office of any kind. And despite the fact I've been here for 18 years and I have family roots here dating back to before 1850 I'm an "outsider" because I have a northern "accent" and didn't grow up here. Thus I'm ineligible for public office. It doesn't matter because the inbred redneck don't want to listen to any new ideas anyways.

[GatorB]

Oh by the way the DOE budget is maybe 3% of the total budget max. So whooo you're saving a ton of money there. Oh and a sizeable chunk of that is just for No Child Left Behind which was passed by a GOP controlled congress and signed into law by BUSH. More money is spend on the Medicare Presciption Drug program. Another idea of BUSH's passed by a GOP controlled congress. Of course then ther's the Patriot Act and the Dept of Homeland Security once again passed by GOP congress and signed into law by Bush. And the GOP is for LESS government?

Oh by the way when you get rid of the DOE then the states have less money for education you can expect your local and state taxes to be INCREASED.

So yes let's focus on something that is less than 3% of the budget. No one talks about cutting military spending which is equal to 1/3 the amount of all revenues we have coming in. Why do we have bases in Japan and Germany 66 years after we defeated them? Are they still a threat?

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

When I read what most americans post here, I have to agree with her ...

At least, the money could be spent elsewhere .. like ... bombing a country somewhere

Now thats using the money the way it should be.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

there is a reason repubs target the dept of education. It is nothing but a tool to direct taxpayer money to teachers unions, the biggest campaign supporters of democrats.

The real hypocrisy GatorB, is that republicans talk of closing it, but don't actually do it when they are in power.

well what is the point of most federal programs since states all have similiar things going on at the state level? why not get rid of it all?

[MaDalton]

when i read that some states want to add things like creationism to their school books, i'd rather suggest to take away the authority from the states ;)

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by raymor

The constitution is only six pages. If you're interested in these things read it.


So printing money (coins and notes) IS one of the powers given to the federal government.

The constitution goes on say:
Powers of the States and People. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

"Running the schools" is one of those powers not delegated to the feds and therefore reserved to the states by the constitution. You could say that the feds SHOULD run the schools and advocate a constitutional amendment granting them that power, but until it's amended the plain language of the constitution reserves that to the states.

Commendable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn_v._Griswold

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

when i read that some states want to add things like creationism to their school books, i'd rather suggest to take away the authority from the states ;)

[JamesGw]

Bachmann scares the shit out of me. That said, I can understand the arguments against the DOE.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Seriously you said this? We stick our noses in everyone's business.

I was speaking generally about the average american. Can you honestly say that the average american gives a flying fucking about the education system in Canada? Russia? Anything beyond their immediate lives? I sure can't

[Coup]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

well what is the point of most federal programs since states all have similiar things going on at the state level? why not get rid of it all?

Hey, you might be on to something.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

well what is the point of most federal programs since states all have similiar things going on at the state level? why not get rid of it all?

because both parties increase their wealth by perpetuating government power. Just like business works to grow, so do government programs.