Shaving, Scamming, Etc... - GoFuckYourself.com

cashcows · 09-19-2011, 05:35 AM

I'm not naming any names but I seriously think I'm getting scammed sometimes.

So I send traffic to paysites as an affiliate like I have for years. Some sponsors I have been sending to for 10 years very reliable.

A couple of time seems that when ever I get a NEW site that really converts like it was 2000 again. I mean like 1:10 or lower (not sure if that's raw unique or what stats exactly as some programs calculate different to make their numbers look better) and this has happened a couple of times on $1 trials with PPS and it converted really well.

Then either it goes completely cold.

Or the sponsor converts me to revshare or just closes my account and then I have to contact them to see what's up talk to them get them to pay and then switch to revshare.

On the sites that do geo and show where the signups are coming from they are from all over the world. I also track all by campaign so I can see what sites have the best traffic.

I have never done any fraud, no spam, nothing shady. One of my sites promotes $1 trials. I have been told by one sponsor out of the blue that I'm not allowed to promote their site on a site advertising one dollar trials. Yet they offer one dollar trials.

So what's going on here...Shaving filter kicks in? Or do I have book markers that do a hit and run on new sites I put up?

It seems to me it's the sponsors responsibility to keep the members and mine to get them to signup without any incentives or lying which is what I do. Don't blame me if you can keep them after all if you have not heard porn is FREE these days.

So I have run into this about 4 times in the last 3 years and on the flip side I have sponsors that convert not as well but pay me regularly and have never once questioned my traffic in over 10 years.

I'd really like to start building more sites and making more money doing this again but not if I have to deal with this crap. I'm almost afraid now when something converts well.

Anyone else go though this? If I'm doing something wrong I'd like to fix it.

Please save the B.S. answer for another thread. Not looking for humor looking for a real answer.

Oracle Porn · 09-19-2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashcows

if you have not heard porn is FREE these days.

I'd really like to start building more sites and making more money doing this again but not if I have to deal with this crap.

raymor · 09-19-2011, 09:22 AM

All I can say is that there are many GFY members who make no bones about the fact that they are dishonest. They promote a "free" signup with a bunch of hidden prechecked cross sales and crap like that. Would these people be dishonest with you? Of course they would!

I'd look at the, program from a surfers point of view. Check out the join process. Do they look like people with integrity, or do they have prechecked cross sales and other scams? Do they have proper 2257 notices, or are they selling stolen content they have no 2257 for? Are they on the boards defending the tube site thieves and spammers? Dishonest people normally make themselves known one way or another.

adultmobile · 09-19-2011, 10:50 AM

I will also not make names

If we talk of ccbill or big automated system who charge more then 10-15%, the shaving is unlikely, but when going into custom stuff, well...
I can tell that most programmers of custom adult affiliate systems can answer you about the shaving - as developers and not program owners.
I have let develop a few cam systems in the years and I been asked by several what shaving algorithm to implement!?
Well some called it cheat so looked like they figure it is a fraud, but some others called it "shave" which let me first think to my beard, then asking what he means, I figured it was hidden parameters to skip some sales for affiliates.
Now if programmers ask this to new customers it means they learned from old customers that this is an important feature of any affiliate program. When I said no need of any shave stuff, it looked like I surprised the developer, sorry to say, maybe I was the first did not needed (well I have just a dozen affiliate, I just buy traffic directly myself - and there I hit with bot traffic sold to me LOL).
I also learned those shave it is in trading traffic systems too, skimmed or whatever, and there was protraffic where the programmer actually stole the money for himself: "Protraffic.com was sabotaged by my ex-programmer. Our last statistics shows that he had stolen over $540,000.00".
Specifically for cam sites, I can tell that models reported me getting chargeback (in a cam site I will not tell) for customers they was in touch with via email whose customers said they did not chargebacked, so shave it happened also on model side, not only in affiliate side.
Specifically to cam sites, since 90% of sales is made by 5% of whale users, for a rev share deal it could be enough to make disappear the 1% of bigger customers to save 50% of payouts. So let's say you do $1000 a month with a cam site in rev share, if it keeps $1000 a month forever you not find it strange - but let one whale signup and he spend $5000 a month, you jump to 2k or 3k a month out of nowhere, for 1 only guy. Let this guy vanish for shaving algorithm, quick enough for you not to notice the 2k increase, and you'll keep doing the 1k a month and miss the unbelievabler extra 1-2k a month for 1 signup only.
A per signup deal drop instead would look suspect immediately, so if any shave is in place it may be less big to not be noticed, still a revshare thing in honest deal would be better, it is also not likely every site shave and to everyone and always, people are bad but not all so bad.
About adult biz people being more bad then others, look at madoff, lehman and other bankers, I think they shaved far more and from a good reputation position - adult biz starts with bad reputation by default like if you would expect a 10% shave as minimum by everyone, isn't it

vdbucks · 09-19-2011, 11:02 AM

Well, if you're looking for a program that hasn't screwed a single affiliate out of a single dollar, always pays on time and converts extremely well in the asian niche...

See sig

CamJack · 09-19-2011, 12:04 PM

Please try out Naked News. Our retention is over 7 months. You'll make long term money with us.

cooldude7 · 09-19-2011, 02:31 PM

try sextronix
pimproll
cams.com
and or few other ccbill programmes

they work for me

cooldude7 · 09-19-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

I will also not make names

If we talk of ccbill or big automated system who charge more then 10-15%, the shaving is unlikely, but when going into custom stuff, well...
I can tell that most programmers of custom adult affiliate systems can answer you about the shaving - as developers and not program owners.
I have let develop a few cam systems in the years and I been asked by several what shaving algorithm to implement!?
Well some called it cheat so looked like they figure it is a fraud, but some others called it "shave" which let me first think to my beard, then asking what he means, I figured it was hidden parameters to skip some sales for affiliates.
Now if programmers ask this to new customers it means they learned from old customers that this is an important feature of any affiliate program. When I said no need of any shave stuff, it looked like I surprised the developer, sorry to say, maybe I was the first did not needed (well I have just a dozen affiliate, I just buy traffic directly myself - and there I hit with bot traffic sold to me LOL).
I also learned those shave it is in trading traffic systems too, skimmed or whatever, and there was protraffic where the programmer actually stole the money for himself: "Protraffic.com was sabotaged by my ex-programmer. Our last statistics shows that he had stolen over $540,000.00".
Specifically for cam sites, I can tell that models reported me getting chargeback (in a cam site I will not tell) for customers they was in touch with via email whose customers said they did not chargebacked, so shave it happened also on model side, not only in affiliate side.
Specifically to cam sites, since 90% of sales is made by 5% of whale users, for a rev share deal it could be enough to make disappear the 1% of bigger customers to save 50% of payouts. So let's say you do $1000 a month with a cam site in rev share, if it keeps $1000 a month forever you not find it strange - but let one whale signup and he spend $5000 a month, you jump to 2k or 3k a month out of nowhere, for 1 only guy. Let this guy vanish for shaving algorithm, quick enough for you not to notice the 2k increase, and you'll keep doing the 1k a month and miss the unbelievabler extra 1-2k a month for 1 signup only.
A per signup deal drop instead would look suspect immediately, so if any shave is in place it may be less big to not be noticed, still a revshare thing in honest deal would be better, it is also not likely every site shave and to everyone and always, people are bad but not all so bad.
About adult biz people being more bad then others, look at madoff, lehman and other bankers, I think they shaved far more and from a good reputation position - adult biz starts with bad reputation by default like if you would expect a 10% shave as minimum by everyone, isn't it

this is awesome inside news.

suesheboy · 09-19-2011, 03:02 PM

I have personally caught 3 well known programs shaving. 2 of them have been absorbed, the other one, I still hear the name occasionally on here.

These were not going through a program such as CCBill. I will only promote programs in the future through a 3rd party such as them - PERIOD.

Any whale in this industry that does not start their own program is an idiot.

Very interesting post adultmobile.

_Richard_ · 09-19-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooldude7

try sextronix
pimproll
cams.com
and or few other ccbill programmes

they work for me

cashcows · 09-19-2011, 06:02 PM

This is disgusting.

Thanks guys. I always avoided CCbill sites. Now I looks like I'm going to have to seeks them out is there a good resource for finding CCBill sites.

It also makes me wonder is sign-ups are not a s bad as we think and everyone is just shaving more and blaming it in free porn.

I'm going to have to change my strategy...

1. Either create a paysite. But that requires a lot of time and work, money to get started.
2. Stick with 3rd party processors

3. Exit Adult. Do mainstream products. The people in the Internet Marketing Niche actually value their affiliates and Clickbank does not shave just like CCbill.

I actually have a new unrelated Venture I'm very passionate about. This may have been exactly what I needed to leave all of this behind and focus on it 100%

What about people using NATS? can they still shave? Or maybe that's why I get my account frozen. No shaving algorithm so they have to freeze and steal the traffic?

cashcows · 09-19-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

I'm with sextronix. Not converting for me. The dollar trials are also gone on many sites.

JuicyBunny · 09-19-2011, 07:23 PM

Sign up with Us! We convert well and NEVER scam the member or the affiliate. New sites opening very soon to add to our network as well.

We are coming into this from Surfer's point of view... We always remember the surfer and have no interest in scamming member or affiliate. We love, need and depend on you both.

Nicky · 09-19-2011, 08:22 PM

To shave is when you deliberately cut off a % of the affiliates sales(ie don't show them) and take the money for your self. Which happened more than people would like to admit back in the earlier day's. If you use Nats for instance you just can't do that. I'm Not saying there aren't ways to not pay for certain signups(not paying on 2nd or 3rd cascade etc) But programs doing those things tend to be outed pretty fast by affiliates since It's easily detectable.

porno jew · 09-19-2011, 08:24 PM

i would say about 87% of all programs shave now.

garce · 09-19-2011, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

i would say about 87% of all programs shave now.

That estimate might be a bit low.

@Suesheboy: I'm an idiot - not by your estimation, but by my own. I tried, and took for granted that things would work out. Very hard to start a paysite without affilates - even back in the day.

Only new sites I promote in adult are CCBill sites. If CCBill goes under, I'll give up. I love this business and a lot of the people in it, but I could easily buy a brand new house in Toronto if I got all the money owed to me.

09-19-2011, 05:35 AM	#1
cashcows Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas/L.A. Posts: 327	Shaving, Scamming, Etc... I'm not naming any names but I seriously think I'm getting scammed sometimes. So I send traffic to paysites as an affiliate like I have for years. Some sponsors I have been sending to for 10 years very reliable. A couple of time seems that when ever I get a NEW site that really converts like it was 2000 again. I mean like 1:10 or lower (not sure if that's raw unique or what stats exactly as some programs calculate different to make their numbers look better) and this has happened a couple of times on $1 trials with PPS and it converted really well. Then either it goes completely cold. Or the sponsor converts me to revshare or just closes my account and then I have to contact them to see what's up talk to them get them to pay and then switch to revshare. On the sites that do geo and show where the signups are coming from they are from all over the world. I also track all by campaign so I can see what sites have the best traffic. I have never done any fraud, no spam, nothing shady. One of my sites promotes $1 trials. I have been told by one sponsor out of the blue that I'm not allowed to promote their site on a site advertising one dollar trials. Yet they offer one dollar trials. So what's going on here...Shaving filter kicks in? Or do I have book markers that do a hit and run on new sites I put up? It seems to me it's the sponsors responsibility to keep the members and mine to get them to signup without any incentives or lying which is what I do. Don't blame me if you can keep them after all if you have not heard porn is FREE these days. So I have run into this about 4 times in the last 3 years and on the flip side I have sponsors that convert not as well but pay me regularly and have never once questioned my traffic in over 10 years. I'd really like to start building more sites and making more money doing this again but not if I have to deal with this crap. I'm almost afraid now when something converts well. Anyone else go though this? If I'm doing something wrong I'd like to fix it. Please save the B.S. answer for another thread. Not looking for humor looking for a real answer. __________________ PM me for custom Photoshoots or Erotic Art for your site. Click here to see Some of my work! Last edited by cashcows; 09-19-2011 at 05:48 AM.. Reason: My lousy proofreading

09-19-2011, 09:22 AM	#3
raymor Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,745	All I can say is that there are many GFY members who make no bones about the fact that they are dishonest. They promote a "free" signup with a bunch of hidden prechecked cross sales and crap like that. Would these people be dishonest with you? Of course they would! I'd look at the, program from a surfers point of view. Check out the join process. Do they look like people with integrity, or do they have prechecked cross sales and other scams? Do they have proper 2257 notices, or are they selling stolen content they have no 2257 for? Are they on the boards defending the tube site thieves and spammers? Dishonest people normally make themselves known one way or another. __________________ For historical display only. This information is not current: support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627 Strongbox - The next generation in site security Throttlebox - The next generation in bandwidth control Clonebox - Backup and disaster recovery on steroids

09-19-2011, 10:50 AM	#4
adultmobile No, I am not banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ChatGF.com Posts: 5,345	I will also not make names If we talk of ccbill or big automated system who charge more then 10-15%, the shaving is unlikely, but when going into custom stuff, well... I can tell that most programmers of custom adult affiliate systems can answer you about the shaving - as developers and not program owners. I have let develop a few cam systems in the years and I been asked by several what shaving algorithm to implement!? Well some called it cheat so looked like they figure it is a fraud, but some others called it "shave" which let me first think to my beard, then asking what he means, I figured it was hidden parameters to skip some sales for affiliates. Now if programmers ask this to new customers it means they learned from old customers that this is an important feature of any affiliate program. When I said no need of any shave stuff, it looked like I surprised the developer, sorry to say, maybe I was the first did not needed (well I have just a dozen affiliate, I just buy traffic directly myself - and there I hit with bot traffic sold to me LOL). I also learned those shave it is in trading traffic systems too, skimmed or whatever, and there was protraffic where the programmer actually stole the money for himself: "Protraffic.com was sabotaged by my ex-programmer. Our last statistics shows that he had stolen over $540,000.00". Specifically for cam sites, I can tell that models reported me getting chargeback (in a cam site I will not tell) for customers they was in touch with via email whose customers said they did not chargebacked, so shave it happened also on model side, not only in affiliate side. Specifically to cam sites, since 90% of sales is made by 5% of whale users, for a rev share deal it could be enough to make disappear the 1% of bigger customers to save 50% of payouts. So let's say you do $1000 a month with a cam site in rev share, if it keeps $1000 a month forever you not find it strange - but let one whale signup and he spend $5000 a month, you jump to 2k or 3k a month out of nowhere, for 1 only guy. Let this guy vanish for shaving algorithm, quick enough for you not to notice the 2k increase, and you'll keep doing the 1k a month and miss the unbelievabler extra 1-2k a month for 1 signup only. A per signup deal drop instead would look suspect immediately, so if any shave is in place it may be less big to not be noticed, still a revshare thing in honest deal would be better, it is also not likely every site shave and to everyone and always, people are bad but not all so bad. About adult biz people being more bad then others, look at madoff, lehman and other bankers, I think they shaved far more and from a good reputation position - adult biz starts with bad reputation by default like if you would expect a 10% shave as minimum by everyone, isn't it __________________ TubeCamGirl.com

09-19-2011, 12:04 PM	#6
CamJack Old School Webmaster Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 1,334	Please try out Naked News. Our retention is over 7 months. You'll make long term money with us. __________________ Skype: promote.promote [email protected]

09-19-2011, 03:02 PM	#9
suesheboy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL - TN/NC Posts: 5,211	I have personally caught 3 well known programs shaving. 2 of them have been absorbed, the other one, I still hear the name occasionally on here. These were not going through a program such as CCBill. I will only promote programs in the future through a 3rd party such as them - PERIOD. Any whale in this industry that does not start their own program is an idiot. Very interesting post adultmobile. __________________ Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

09-19-2011, 11:02 AM	#5
vdbucks Monger Cash Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,773	Well, if you're looking for a program that hasn't screwed a single affiliate out of a single dollar, always pays on time and converts extremely well in the asian niche... See sig

09-19-2011, 02:31 PM	#7
cooldude7 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Heaven Posts: 4,306	try sextronix pimproll cams.com and or few other ccbill programmes they work for me

09-19-2011, 06:02 PM	#11
cashcows Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas/L.A. Posts: 327	This is disgusting. Thanks guys. I always avoided CCbill sites. Now I looks like I'm going to have to seeks them out is there a good resource for finding CCBill sites. It also makes me wonder is sign-ups are not a s bad as we think and everyone is just shaving more and blaming it in free porn. I'm going to have to change my strategy... 1. Either create a paysite. But that requires a lot of time and work, money to get started. 2. Stick with 3rd party processors 3. Exit Adult. Do mainstream products. The people in the Internet Marketing Niche actually value their affiliates and Clickbank does not shave just like CCbill. I actually have a new unrelated Venture I'm very passionate about. This may have been exactly what I needed to leave all of this behind and focus on it 100% What about people using NATS? can they still shave? Or maybe that's why I get my account frozen. No shaving algorithm so they have to freeze and steal the traffic? __________________ PM me for custom Photoshoots or Erotic Art for your site. Click here to see Some of my work! Last edited by cashcows; 09-19-2011 at 06:07 PM..

09-19-2011, 07:23 PM	#13
JuicyBunny So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Tokyo Red Light District Posts: 2,145	Sign up with Us! We convert well and NEVER scam the member or the affiliate. New sites opening very soon to add to our network as well. We are coming into this from Surfer's point of view... We always remember the surfer and have no interest in scamming member or affiliate. We love, need and depend on you both.

09-19-2011, 08:22 PM	#14
Nicky Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 30,069	To shave is when you deliberately cut off a % of the affiliates sales(ie don't show them) and take the money for your self. Which happened more than people would like to admit back in the earlier day's. If you use Nats for instance you just can't do that. I'm Not saying there aren't ways to not pay for certain signups(not paying on 2nd or 3rd cascade etc) But programs doing those things tend to be outed pretty fast by affiliates since It's easily detectable. __________________ gfynicky @ gmail.com

09-19-2011, 08:24 PM	#15
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	i would say about 87% of all programs shave now.