Microsoft looking to prevent you from installing Linux on hardware built for Windows 8 ?

[u-Bob]

The hardware certified for the new 64 bit operating system from Microsoft
(Windows 8) will have to use the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface
(UEFI) with security measures that would not allow installing of other
operating systems, such as GNU/Linux.

The UEFI firmware specifications might require next-generation PC firmware
to only boot an image signed by a key chain rooted in keys built into the
PC. Apparently, Microsoft and other companies are pushing for this
modification to be mandatory, so that it cannot be disabled by the user.

Thus "a system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will not boot a
generic copy of Linux," as underlines the Red Hat developer Matthew Garrett
in his blog post where it explains the technical details of the new change.

Ross Anderson from EDRi-member FIPR - UK reminded that similar issues were
discussed in 2003 with the Trusted Computing initiative, which petered out
after widespread opposition from the free software community and others.
However, the current proposal is even worse, as "unauthorised" operating
systems like Linux and FreeBSD just won't run at all.

http://mjg59.livejournal.com/138973.html
http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2...computing-2-0/
http://www.zdnet.com.au/windows-8-se...-339322781.htm
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

[raymor]

I'm betting they'll also sell you an upgrade chip to enable a Windows 9 upgrade.
The Linux folks will have this hacked within hours of actual release, but average Windows users are going to have a heck of a time with a motherboard that's permanently locked to Windows 8.

[u-Bob]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...wont-say/10772

There’s a report circulating — originating with a Red Hat employee — that says Microsoft’s new secure-boot functionality in Windows 8 could preclude users from running both Windows and Linux on their PCs.

True or false? Well-grounded or unfounded? Microsoft execs will not comment — which is leading many to assume it’s true.

Matthew Garrett, a power management and mobile Linux developer at Red Hat, blogged about the possible lock-out scenario on September 20. He explained how the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) technology and Microsoft’s secure-boot plans — outlined in a new blog post on the “Building Windows 8″ blog this week — potentially could thwart those who want to dual boot Linux and Windows 8 on their Windows 8 machines.

Garrett’s conclusion: “It’s probably not worth panicking yet. But it is worth being concerned.”

u-Bob's contribution: this would also prevent people from running Truecrypt and similar full disk encryption tools with pre-boot auth.

[Babaganoosh]

I wouldn't sweat it. I can't imagine any hardware manufacturer not making it so you can disable that feature in the firmware. Even if they don't, the Linux nerds will hack this as soon as it becomes available. If you're wanting to just run Windows 8 it actually sounds like a fine idea. It will prevent a lot of the security issues that have plagued Windows for years.

[BestXXXPorn]

So they want to play the Apple card then, sort of ;)

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

I wouldn't sweat it. I can't imagine any hardware manufacturer not making it so you can disable that feature in the firmware.


Even if they don't, the Linux nerds will hack this as soon as it becomes available.

How many manufacturers will tell Microsoft to fuck off given it's required for Win8 certification and licensing deals? Yeah, hack it, so it'll just be a hassle. HP has said they intend to ditch desktops and just sell servers, so maybe they can MS to suck it.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by raymor

How many manufacturers will tell Microsoft to fuck off given it's required for Win8 certification and licensing deals? Yeah, hack it, so it'll just be a hassle. HP has said they intend to ditch desktops and just sell servers, so maybe they can MS to suck it.

Honestly I am kind of excited about the possibilities if they make this as closed and restrictive as as it could be. This could leave room for another viable alternative. I think Linux is almost ready to take on the big boys in some desktop markets.

Well, Linux might have been ready to take on the big boys before Gnome 3 and Unity hit the scene. Now our only hope is KDE which I don't care for.

[adult-help]

that is not good, microsoft..

[raymor]

I set up a lot friends with Linux if they are the type who use the web, email, and maybe some light spreadsheets. They like it because to them Firefox is Firefox; they don't care what's underneath. They just know there's no more spyware, viruses, and crashes.

Of course the real geeks get excited about what they can do in Linux. The group who does not prefer Linux seems to be the Windows experts, who don't care to learn anything new after all of the hours they've spent leaving registery settings and obscure Excel tricks.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by raymor

I set up a lot friends with Linux if they are the type who use the web, email, and maybe some light spreadsheets. They like it because to them Firefox is Firefox; they don't care what's underneath. They just know there's no more spyware, viruses, and crashes.

Of course the real geeks get excited about what they can do in Linux. The group who does not prefer Linux seems to be the Windows experts, who don't care to learn anything new after all of the hours they've spent leaving registery settings and obscure Excel tricks.

I've turned a few friends on to Linux but I don't know what distro to recommend anymore. I'm using Gnome 2 and I like it. Gnome Shell is a disaster. Ubuntu's unity is almost as bizarre. I hate the tablet interface on the desktop paradigm. Unless there's a good fork of Gnome 2 soon I'll probably switch to XFCE. I know some people love KDE but it feels like Vista to me.

What distro have you been putting your non-geek friends on?

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by adult-help

that is not good, microsoft..

If this thing backfires then it could be good.

Imagine a computer company that decided to put linux on all it's computers rather
than comply with this crap.

That could create a whole new area of competition.

I would buy the Linux computer in this case.

[sperbonzo]

"u-Bob's contribution: this would also prevent people from running Truecrypt and similar full disk encryption tools with pre-boot auth."



Now THIS is a very interesting aspect to this story....

I always tru crypt everything. Hmmmmm.......



.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

I've turned a few friends on to Linux but I don't know what distro to recommend anymore. I'm using Gnome 2 and I like it. Gnome Shell is a disaster. Ubuntu's unity is almost as bizarre. I hate the tablet interface on the desktop paradigm. Unless there's a good fork of Gnome 2 soon I'll probably switch to XFCE. I know some people love KDE but it feels like Vista to me.

What distro have you been putting your non-geek friends on?

I'm not a big GUI user so I haven't compared. Since I spend all day working on servers via ssh sessions, my command line skills carry over to my desktop. Thus, I don't care enough about GUIs to try different ones.

That said, I put them on the distro I'm most familiar with so I can answer questions over the phone. That's now CentOS. It used to be Fedora.

[Phoenix]

they have to resort to such tactics because of the mass drive away from them.
they are losing on cell phones.
they are slipping in the OS space, with macs/linux rising
does anyone even have a hotmail anymore?
bing, dont they just display googles results?
they seem to do well on xbox, they should stick there
they can sell their excel and wordpress...oh wait google made it free

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by Babaganoosh

I've turned a few friends on to Linux but I don't know what distro to recommend anymore. I'm using Gnome 2 and I like it. Gnome Shell is a disaster. Ubuntu's unity is almost as bizarre. I hate the tablet interface on the desktop paradigm. Unless there's a good fork of Gnome 2 soon I'll probably switch to XFCE. I know some people love KDE but it feels like Vista to me.

What distro have you been putting your non-geek friends on?

I'd really have to suggest Linux Mint 11 for the new to average user... or Linux Mint Debian for those who are a little more adventurous.

LM 11 is based off of Ubuntu 11.04, but they dropped the Unity gdm crap and went with good old Gnome 2.

LMDE is based on Debian testing.. runs faster than the Ubuntu based release but is also akin to some problems here and there.

Either way you go though, Linux Mint is pretty great because of their menu structure and ease of use. I mean, at the end of the day it's just Ubuntu with Gnome 2 and a custom menu... but that ends up making it enough to make life very easy for the linux newbie.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Message to Ballmer:

Just make an operating system that is not a piece of crap with "eye-candy" to cover-up its security holes ...

[seeandsee]

They are really really nasty but i will use win8

[Nurgle]

wouldnt this be considered anti competitive.. and the Euro zone would be after them for this?

[prezzz]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

u-Bob's contribution: this would also prevent people from running Truecrypt and similar full disk encryption tools with pre-boot auth.

That's an interesting issue. As for me, more disturbing than inability to install Linux.

[Lucy - CSC]

All that will happen is hardware designed for Windows 8 wont sell as well as hardware which can be configured for any OS.

[Babaganoosh]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

I'd really have to suggest Linux Mint 11 for the new to average user... or Linux Mint Debian for those who are a little more adventurous.

LM 11 is based off of Ubuntu 11.04, but they dropped the Unity gdm crap and went with good old Gnome 2.

LMDE is based on Debian testing.. runs faster than the Ubuntu based release but is also akin to some problems here and there.

Either way you go though, Linux Mint is pretty great because of their menu structure and ease of use. I mean, at the end of the day it's just Ubuntu with Gnome 2 and a custom menu... but that ends up making it enough to make life very easy for the linux newbie.

I used to recommend Ubuntu but when I saw Unity on the horizon I started putting friends on Mint. I personally use Pinguy which is a modified Mint with all of the desktop tweaks already done for you. It's a great distro if you're tired of striving for desktop zen. Honestly it is exactly what I always wanted my desktop to be. http://pinguyos.com/

My concern is that Gnome 2 development has officially stopped so it needs a good fork or we're all in for desktop hell. A lot of distros are moving to Gnome 3 and it is absolute garbage. I can't fathom why they would switch to such a stupid, inconvenient desktop environment. I might start recommending a good newbie distro like PCLinuxOS which runs KDE but it's easy to use, functional and pretty.