No cost solar panels?

[Chris]

so im a customer of vivint for my home security but they recently came out with Vivint Solar ( http://www.vivintsolar.com/ )

the sales pitch is 20-30% cheaper electric bill without the large upfront cost of having to install solar panels your self and waiting years to recoup your investment

I'm kinda thinking it is one of those too good to be true things and If i have the sales person come out i will end getting into an ugly contract or something

chris

[devilspost]

One of my neighbors got a 20 panel installation in August he said it produces 150$ a month here in Florida. Cost him 30k install cost, gov paid back around 20k of that.

[boneprone]

yep its common now. They pay for the panels and install. and you pay them for the energy. No money upfront and saves a lot of money monthly vs electric..

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Chris

so im a customer of vivint for my home security but they recently came out with Vivint Solar ( http://www.vivintsolar.com/ )

the sales pitch is 20-30% cheaper electric bill without the large upfront cost of having to install solar panels your self and waiting years to recoup your investment

I'm kinda thinking it is one of those too good to be true things and If i have the sales person come out i will end getting into an ugly contract or something

chris

I have heard of a few companies doing this, Google is about to start actually. It could be legitimate.

[LeRoy]

Sounds like a win win to me.

A little savings would help out

[VikingMan]

The interesting thing about this concept is that there is a good chance the company who installs the panels will go out of business. It is doubtful that the bank who finances these installs will want the panels back because of the labor costs vs value of panels.

[pornguy]

Most likely you pay them a small fee for what you use and they then sell the overage to the Electric company and make a profit from it.

Not a bad Idea

[PR_Glen]

it's killing me that i can't find the article on cnn because i read it last night, but i was reading that the efficiency and durability for solar panels are a lot worse than the producers are saying. Instead of a .5% loss in power generation a year its something closer to 4.5% per year. Also that people have to have them cleaned often because even something as small as a leaf kills about a square foot of power generation. They mention google and their panels and asking about them and it sounded like they had no idea really about how efficient they were.


the point of the article i think was that people have no idea really how much output they can get from these panels because all the 'data' collected from the producers of these things are all on panels 10 times the size anyone would have on their home and usually out in the open.

It makes me wonder if this solar panel insurgence is nothing more than some hype mixed with false promises...

[ottopottomouse]

You are giving them your roof for the next 20 years and the panels never manage to generate the amounts promised.

Would you be happy buying a house under this sort of situation, because that's what people will be thinking when you want to sell it?

[Harmon]

I had the power company install solar panels on my beach house a few years ago, and they actually pay me for power. It's only $16 or so per month, but there was no up front cost and my energy is free.

[brassmonkey]

i actually built a couple not hard to do.

[TheDoc]

Yes it's real, this has been happening for many years now, depending on the State you live in. As well, depending on where you live, the power company might buy back extra energy or give you credits.

Efficiency all depends on your average sunlight & your 'extra' power use, and less to do with the panels, now that they can magnify the light and capture more energy very easily, as well is bio produce it on the same panel, and way more depending on what you want to spend personally.

Most houses, under 3k sq feet only need a few panels, an extra panel or two will power a hot tub or heated pool, of course less light, more panels as well.

They also add instant value to your house.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by Sly

I have heard of a few companies doing this, Google is about to start actually. It could be legitimate.

no they dont, they put the energy project on hold.

[devilspost]

Here is where I have been looking at prices http://www.sunelec.com/

good reading their blog http://www.sunelec.com/blog/

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Yes it's real, this has been happening for many years now, depending on the State you live in.

Yup, like 4 years plus know if memory serves me correct

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

You are giving them your roof for the next 20 years and the panels never manage to generate the amounts promised.

Would you be happy buying a house under this sort of situation, because that's what people will be thinking when you want to sell it?

I've never heard of anyone here complain about them not generating the power promised. Now I have heard people say they didn't have enough panels for peak power uses, thus they have to pull off the grid during those few hours....

House values go up with solar on them. Yes, smart home buyers want them, the money savings is worth it.

[ArsewithClass]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

You are giving them your roof for the next 20 years and the panels never manage to generate the amounts promised.

Would you be happy buying a house under this sort of situation, because that's what people will be thinking when you want to sell it?

If you aint selling, then this system is fantastic, if you do, the roof is "rented".

They offer similar here in the UK, I thought it was a great idea, but didn't go ahead & haven't passed details on to family or friends

[Due]

Its a great deal for the power companies and other investors to lock you in for 20 years with the energy costs exploding. They'll make bank in 10 years on you if your rates are locked.

[Chris]

i asked on their facebook page and they let me know that it is indeed a 20 year contract and in that 20 years the price per kwh can not be raised more than 3%

20 year contract is what is bugging me - they dont have a clause to get out of the contract at all and are vague about what is considered "general maintenance" that they will cover.

If i'm only saving 40-50 a month on my bill and i have a chance to end up back on the grid if i dont produce enough with the panels my electric company will charge me and once they start charging a 49$ "delivery fee" is added to my bill making the savings worthless ;/

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Chris

i asked on their facebook page and they let me know that it is indeed a 20 year contract and in that 20 years the price per kwh can not be raised more than 3%

20 year contract is what is bugging me - they dont have a clause to get out of the contract at all and are vague about what is considered "general maintenance" that they will cover.

If i'm only saving 40-50 a month on my bill and i have a chance to end up back on the grid if i dont produce enough with the panels my electric company will charge me and once they start charging a 49$ "delivery fee" is added to my bill making the savings worthless ;/

So if you move ...... it becomes the new owners asset/liability or can it come back to you as the originator?

.

[JP-pornshooter]

panels are mostly produced in China these days, which has squeezed the cost.
right now around $1 per watt panel cost.
I have some panels on an RV, two 85 watt panels produce 80 Amp hours per day.
Stored energy in a bank of deep cycle batteries.
It like free porn.. well back in the day that was worth something.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by JP-pornshooter

panels are mostly produced in China these days, which has squeezed the cost.
right now around $1 per watt panel cost.
I have some panels on an RV, two 85 watt panels produce 80 Amp hours per day.
Stored energy in a bank of deep cycle batteries.
It like free porn.. well back in the day that was worth something.

Only some types of panels are... the cheap - easy, non-bio panels... the bitch ones basically, can't think of the name of them and too lazy to look.

[beerptrol]

I'd rather just outright buy the damn things

[Phoenix]

look into putting them on yourself...in some places there is a rebate from the government for doing it as well.

[TurboAngel]

My aunt is a CPA and had some installed and now a year later the electric company is paying her. She had to purchase them but got all the money back with tax breaks.

[Rochard]

It's illegal for us to install solar panels here because of our HOA. I can understand it might not look pretty, but fuck, half the neighborhood has those huge fucking ugly dishes....

One guy decided to fight it. I wonder how that went.

[marlboroack]

Shit is getting sophisticated

[tony286]

When we drove to LA from ATL. A bunch of places along the way are flat and basically just baking in the Sun. I told my wife every house here should have solar panels.

[V_RocKs]

Just another flavor... Nothing wrong with it. Some counties like San Diego might have a better rate because it is closer to the equator. If you plan on living in your home for a long period of time, this is a good option. It could also be better for you to buy them outright on your own. Electricity price will always go up. So if it inflates to 3x the current cost in 15 years you will be selling the overage at a much larger rate. That is what they are counting on.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Harmon

I had the power company install solar panels on my beach house a few years ago, and they actually pay me for power. It's only $16 or so per month, but there was no up front cost and my energy is free.

So has there been a decrease in power over the years? Meaning they say the solar panels lose a % or output every year!

[Shok]

My company, on top of the energy management, did a few solar installs for some theaters. The coolest thing to come out was the new panels from cylindra.
They were solar tubes, we have a few for testing.
They were going to be hot shit, and just opened a billion dollar factory. Then suddenly shut down with no reasoning. Oh well.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Shok

My company, on top of the energy management, did a few solar installs for some theaters. The coolest thing to come out was the new panels from cylindra.
They were solar tubes, we have a few for testing.
They were going to be hot shit, and just opened a billion dollar factory. Then suddenly shut down with no reasoning. Oh well.

probably nuclear power makers showed up and played gangster

oh no bankrupt..lol

[12clicks]

its a government boondoggle that is already starting to unravel in some areas.
If the government wasn't involved, it would be completely unaffordable. If the price of energy you sell back drops, your investment just changed to a 40 year return.
The guys doing it for free are gambling with the government's handouts. They may win in the short term but its a house of cards.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

its a government boondoggle that is already starting to unravel in some areas.
If the government wasn't involved, it would be completely unaffordable. If the price of energy you sell back drops, your investment just changed to a 40 year return.
The guys doing it for free are gambling with the government's handouts. They may win in the short term but its a house of cards.

A 3k sq foot house costs roughly $8-15k to have solar installed.... divide that over 5 years and it's cheaper than your electric bill is monthly, meaning it instantly starts returning on the investment, without a single tax break - and it instantly increase the value of your house - paying for it again when you sell the house.

The buy back is a bonus, you don't need it to get a return on your investment.

It helps States to get people on Solar, the tax benefit helps us in the long run more than it hurts... they're helping resupply the very over used power grids and they take none off of it, decreasing the strain on it.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

A 3k sq foot house costs roughly $8-15k to have solar installed.... divide that over 5 years and it's cheaper than your electric bill is monthly, meaning it instantly starts returning on the investment, without a single tax break - and it instantly increase the value of your house - paying for it again when you sell the house.

The buy back is a bonus, you don't need it to get a return on your investment.

It helps States to get people on Solar, the tax benefit helps us in the long run more than it hurts... they're helping resupply the very over used power grids and they take none off of it, decreasing the strain on it.

except that the solar panels don't come close to covering the cost of electric on a 3k sq ft house unless you're in a very specific climate and don't heat or cool your house with electric.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

except that the solar panels don't come close to covering the cost of electric on a 3k sq ft house unless you're in a very specific climate and don't heat or cool your house with electric.

Yep up north, I agree. But to me in AZ, NM or Texas it should be a no brainer.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

except that the solar panels don't come close to covering the cost of electric on a 3k sq ft house unless you're in a very specific climate and don't heat or cool your house with electric.

I live in one of the hottest places in the Country.... with AC units the size of small cars, and electric heaters are standard. Lots and lots of houses have solar and shit tons, by the 10,000's have solar water heaters.

Even if it doesn't cover all electricity needs, even if you only got 1 panel, it's still a reduction in use and cost, either way, it saves you money. The water heaters for example still use power, they just used a reduced amount, thus saving you money.

And yes, you need them in an area with a larger % of sun shine, it makes them better. So the South and S. West, Colorado, and most of Cali could go solar without question.


If you live in a place that is covered in trees, sun blocked by something, or you're just an electricity whore that's not going to be very economical to put them on your house or even on the ground, even in a small house. They simply aren't for everyone... even here.

[Due]

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's illegal for us to install solar panels here because of our HOA. I can understand it might not look pretty, but fuck, half the neighborhood has those huge fucking ugly dishes....

One guy decided to fight it. I wonder how that went.

I was reading up on that since we got a HOA in our new house, if you fight it you will win. an HOA is not allowed to deny you the right to "green energy"

[Due]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

except that the solar panels don't come close to covering the cost of electric on a 3k sq ft house unless you're in a very specific climate and don't heat or cool your house with electric.

I was planning on getting solar panels but sell back 100% of the production if that's possible and then buy the cheap polluting electricity.

The requirements for sustainable / green energy production continues to increase so I can't see this being too risky. Even if the government removes all the funding the power plants are still required to provide a certain % of their total output as "green energy". One way or the other it's going to get paid, if not by the government then by the customer

Just knowing that for a 1 time payment of 10-20K (or 100/month lease) I'd likely have power during most blackouts the next 30 or so years would make it worth it, of course there is cheaper options as well (diesel generators, battery backups etc) but they do not give you tax deductions or generate an ongoing revenue

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by tony286

Yep up north, I agree. But to me in AZ, NM or Texas it should be a no brainer.

is dust not an issue out there? I know that it can affect efficiency. I also know that any numbers people get from their solar salesmen don't mention variables like that, or breakage or being fried by power surges or pigeon poop, scratches and a thousand other things that can kill any 'profits' you would ever make from it.


I'm not convinced personally. I think the costs are far too high to make your money back now in a reasonable amount of time and even if it did take off in popularity people wouldn't be getting paid out a fraction as much as they are now.

blackouts? Aside from that big one we had in 2003 i've never been out for more than an hour. Not even enough time for my laptop to die ;)

[$5 submissions]

Nice win win situation.

Unfortunately, the solar components market is MONOPOLIZED here in the Philippines. The company who cornered that market actually want the REST of the economy to subsidize them...to the tune of Billions of pesos per year AND higher electricity bills. LOSE / LOSE / WIN

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Due

I was planning on getting solar panels but sell back 100% of the production if that's possible and then buy the cheap polluting electricity.

That is a really good idea!!

I think that you would have to get around that thing about "If you produce more than you use, they have to buy yours at the same price" thing

And that would be pretty easy

Split the property into two residences or some kind of a thing

[MrBottomTooth]

The government was offering them up here in Canada as well. Paying for the installation yourself and relying on the government to make sure they keep paying you the ridiculous amount they promised for they hydro generated for 20 years seemed a bit sketchy, so I just leased the necessary space on my land to someone else who is responsible for paying for the panel and dealing with collecting the hydro money.

I don't get to use any of the hydro generated, but they just send me a cheque for $500 every 4 months for 20 years. Seemed like a no brainer since I had a huge empty hayfield to stick the panel in. I don't think I would want them installed on my roof though. What if you need to repair your roof?

[Jakez]

Sort of off topic sorry, but is it true we could cover a desert with panels and power the entire country for free?

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Jakez

Sort of off topic sorry, but is it true we could cover a desert with panels and power the entire country for free?

Here ya go... Jump to about 65 seconds....

[96ukssob]

they pay to install and you pay them until they decide to jack up the costs and then when you cancel, you have to pay HUGE fees to have them removed

[Jakez]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Here ya go... Jump to about 65 seconds....

Cool idea, but a little far fetched, and where I'm at they will work on a section of road for years upon years, I can't imagine what it'd be like waiting for them to install glass roads.

Covering a desert with the best panels we have now (and upgrade them down the line) can be done right away.

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Here ya go... Jump to about 65 seconds....

THAT is going to change the game, for sure, if it is ever affordable enough.. As an example, instead of having a roof full of ugly panels, you could have a really cool looking driveway...

[MrMaxwell]

By affordable, I mean, if it pays for itself quickly enough

[Ron Bennett]

Another potential expense to consider are taxes ...

* Solar panels can increase property assessment resulting in higher property tax.

* And potentially, in the future, taxes on solar installations based on power production / size of the array.

Ron