Robbie

Because there is a level of free testosterone that is an average level in an 18 year old. Just like there are levels of other things in your blood that determine all kinds of things.
As you age those levels drop.

They DO have years of numbers on how much testosterone a healthy young man has in his system. And they also have years on the numbers for people as they age.

If you are below certain level of free testosterone in your blood you have a deficiency. And even if you are at the lower end of "acceptable" you aren't gonna feel as good as you could with levels closer to the higher end of normal.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

chaze

That's a lot different than what I was referring to, these guys on facebook have died in their early 20's from overdosing and they have thousands of fans excited about what great shape they had. All I'm saying is it's beyond dumb to be so vein your risk life to impress people you don't know.

Choopa Phil

Who are you referring to that has died? Exogenous hormones can not cause death, they can however magnify a pre-existing problem.

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VenusBlogger

Steroids will kill you soon or late.

The long term side effects are IRREVERSIBLE and anyone saying different is full of shit. Consider this as free advice.

Anyway, if you don't believe me, just try for yourself, its your own BODY. There is no going back to the damage and HARM STEROIDS or HGH will do to your ORGANS and body.

Period.

Choopa Phil

Life will also kill you sooner or later. Frank Zane, Arnold, Lou Ferrigno. All professional level BBer's who used for decades and are still alive and kicking into their 60's and 70's. Not to mention when they have used there was no where near the plethora of information and knowledge there is now (no blood work done, no post cycle therapy used, and cycled for months on end). HGH and insulin used by BBer's today, that is what causes premature deaths ON TOP OF steroid ABUSE. Things are different nowadays

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Kenny B!

You guys keep switching from steroids to HGH to testosterone. Is one much safer than the other?

I was under the impression (but really I have no clue) that tess is a safe solution as it's something that you produce naturally and if you keep it at a certain level you aren't damaging yourself.

I have no clue about HGH, and steroids I've heard can do some serious long term damage. I'm sure there are cases where by appearance you don't see issues but who knows what is going on inside these people.

Would "everything in moderation" work here, or are these things something that you need to do on schedule forever to get and then keep the results?

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Chosen

Fuck steroids

PR_Glen

but that's just it, is it healthy to have heightened amounts of testosterone in your body after your body stops producing it naturally? The death rate of wrestlers and football players before 55 is through the roof. They keep speculating it has more to do with the brain injuries, but brain injuries don't cause heart attacks--steroids do though.

as for being a man, my dad is still a bad ass.. was visiting with him last year and saw his knuckles all bashed up. It took a while to get it out of him but I found out he got into a bar fight the week before--he hasn't changed a bit apparently. My uncles are all newly retired construction workers and hard as nails so whatever it is they are doing it seems to keep them from being 18 year old girls safe to say ;)

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pimpmaster9000

bullshit...

millions of people world wide safely use steroids...it is the nectar of the gods...note I said USE and not ABUSE...

deaths by steroids alone? not possible...but the pro body builders take up to 20 types of medication at once....4-5 types of steroids oral and injectable, 2-3 types of anti estrogens, HGH, IGF, T3, Insulin, Clen, EPO, blood pressure meds, diuretics, pain meds, anti inflamation meds, ephedrine, caffeine ect ect + down 5.000+ calories/day during bulking season...

so yes crazy pro bodybuilders and un educated idiots will die from years of ABuse...fuck them...its natural selection...steroids should be legal everywhere and used under doctors supervision...but the US gov. has put it underground and made a spectacular fail just like with any other prohibition...

Choopa Phil

Steroids do not cause heart attacks, they merely amplify a pre-existing condition. If you have high cholesterol it will make it worse, if u have cancer it will most likely make it spread or grow faster, ect. All the golden era bbers are still alive for the most part....theyre not dead and some even still train. Notice its players of this day and age...ill go back and say it again...HGH AND INSULIN are the problem.



Hes still alive, in great shape, and personal trains people.

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Robbie

Yes it is. The only reason your body stops producing it naturally is because up until modern times your body DIED naturally before you ever reached what we now call old age.

Wrestlers and football players use exorbitant amounts of pain killers. And football banned steroids decades ago.
Concussions and brain injuries are THE most dangerous thing they face.

As for pro wrestlers...having been in that industry I can tell you it's a lot like being in a band (which I also do). A LOT of hard partying and heavy drinking. And tons of mixing that with pain killers.
That's always been the case. Even back in the days of Harley Race & Dusty Rhodes when steroids and the "body builder" look weren't in vogue. Pro wrestlers still dropped like flies from car accidents, heart attacks, greasy food on the road every night, etc.

And using a small amount of testosterone on a weekly basis to get your levels up to normal is going to do nothing but make you healthier. We aren't talking about doing bodybuilder levels.
That's abuse.
You can abuse aspirin and kill yourself. Same with steroids.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

xNetworx

I laugh at the roid monkeys at the gym who don't know how to diet properly. They are big but have no definition and have fat faces... soon they will likely grow man tits.

I've noticed the only girls that seem to really be attracted to major meat heads who are obviously on gear are other body builders or major slut bags with issues.

Robbie

Those are guys on some kind of cycle to gain mass. They are pretty much abusing steroids for size and muscle. If they were actual competitive body builders they would then go on a leaning out cycle to cut down all body fat before their competition.

But as for "normal" people...sounds to me like you're describing guys who are too young to be using testosterone. And they are over using it and retaining water (the bloated look).

As for the girls who like muscular guys. You're right. All women are monolithic in their thinking.
All "Good" women only prefer soft and chubby guys. Only major slut bags would ever want good looking lean muscular guys. That's a fact.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

BlackCrayon

This is a scientific fact? That the only reason the body stops producing testosterone is because live expectancy has changed dramatically? Then why doesn't the body stop producing a lot of other things?

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Robbie

Do I look like Mr. Science to you?

I don't know. People were different a couple of hundred years ago. For thousands of years you had 15 year old males breeding 12 year old females to reproduce our species because we didn't live very long.
Now you have people having babies in their later years.

Medical science found ways to keep our hearts going a lot longer through better diets. Disease was kicked back by new medicines (hell...before antibiotics you were a dead man if you got hurt or even caught the clap)

My guess would be that nature didn't see any reason to continue having your body spit out testosterone because you were already dead.

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, then just stop taking all medicines. Stop eating healthy. Don't go to the gym.
Or just continue being selective in the things you do that extend your life and keep "other things" working.

I like the way I look and feel. I'd like everyone to be able to be 100% of what they can be. But you can lead a horse to water....

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

VenusBlogger

A moon face is a side effect of Steroids. Usually you will see a desproportioned WIDE JAWS, even on women.

However that side effect does not affect all people. Others, finish with a giant body and micro, thin slim JAW, which also looks ridicolous. The kind of FISH FACE of Michael Phelps (not saying that he takes gear, just using his face as sample)... Their head is a micro head comparing with the body like in the movie BettleJuice.

Both types are always funny to watch because they are convinced they look hot, when they actually are true monsters.

Again, anyone can do what they want with their body, but being a LIAR of facts, should be punished. There is a very good reason FDA bans steroids, and 90% of US LAZY dudes buy MEXICAN produced anabolic steroids.

Period.

Choopa Phil

You you for real? This is probably the dumbest thing I have ever read. Moon face lmao...wow. and widened jaws are usually a side effect from HGH not steroids.

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Robbie

You might want to read up on that.

CONGRESS forced the FDA to make steroids a CONTROLLED substance. They aren't "banned". Doctors prescribe them every minute of every day.

Matter of fact if you actually researched it...Congress did that as a knee jerk reaction to Lyle Alzado claiming that steroid ABUSE cause him to contract a brain tumor that killed him. That was never, ever proven...but Congress reacted because of all the publicity.

The American Medical Association (the AMA) told Congress NOT to do that. (you know, the DOCTORS)
But Congress had televised hearings and all wanted to look "tough" and so they did it anyway.

Those are the facts. Look it up for yourself.

Steroids were 100% legal up until that point. And still are legal almost everywhere in the world EXCEPT the "free" U.S.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Choopa Phil

Robbie you are honestly the only one in this thread who actually has a clue. The ignorance in this thread is amazing

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VenusBlogger

Most prominent side effect of HGH is an over inflated enlarged stomach (coleman), which looks UGLY as fuck.

BTW, I always thought u were natural by looking your avatar. You don't look that big, just a bit of work on gym, nothing special.

Yeah, you will tell me you were not taking gear in that pic, lol.

21" biceps?

Choopa Phil

im 5'7 185lbs my man and have 17" arms training for 7 years, and those guts are from INSULIN in conjunction with HGH not HGH alone. You really should educate urself instead of believing the first thing you read on the internet. I wasnt taking gear and I dont, competing in an all natural show in august which is polygraph tested.

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tical

Actually "Moon Face" is a term used to describe facial water retention / bloat when using steroids and failing to control estrogen.

Larger jaws are linked more to HGH abuse since it is a growth factor. Steroids won't enlarge your bones like that alone, however, when lifting and training heavily, your body will naturally produce more HGH->IGF-1 which will contribute to overall growth but not strangely disproportionate bone growth like HGH abuse.

It seems like you're associating any athletic person that might have an odd look to them to be abusing steroids.

If we're throwing out statistics based on hunches, I'm be willing to bet close to 90% of steroids are actually coming from China, not Mexico.

Your "FACTS" are more of an uneducated and biased opinion. You don't agree with steroids or performance enhancing drugs for whatever reason and you're stating your opinion as facts.

If you did the research and remained objective, you'd see that steroids can be used to improve quality of life both physically and psychologically. That is, steroids that are used properly.

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tical

And just so everyone knows, we all produce steroids naturally. From cholesterol. So technically, you all are "on" steroids right now.

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Robbie

Bingo. You're all a bunch of "roid monkeys" and you didn't even know it. lol

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

xNetworx

I'm not talking about the guys who look normal and big who have used gear. I'm talking about the d-bags that look like they are about to explode. I rarely meet quality women attached to these clowns.

I think juice is a great thing if used properly.

bigluv

This is actually typical bullshit from someone who obviously is against it but needs to tell himself a story to feel better.

There's been studies to show that supplementing with steroids builds muscle (significant amounts, too) no lifestyle change whatsoever - just sitting on the couch. It also reduced fat as well.

Obviously somebody that's active would benefit even more.

And, since "steroids" can encompass straight testosterone supplementation, all the "OH you lose it faster" and whatever other crybaby stories are also obviously false just on the face of it because how could there possibly be a difference.

Not recommending steroids. I just dont like fruitcakes spouting misinformation.

Go eat a banana and do your circuit training black monster.

Robbie

You're talking about guys trying to gain muscle mass. I don't know if that makes them douchebags. I know a lot of guys like that. None of the ones I know are douchebags. Pretty nice guys actually.

But yeah, the bloated look kinda sucks aesthetically. On the other hand...all that water retention and extra weight makes them super strong and able to lift a LOT.
Some guys get caught up in that and really like to lift heavy so they kinda get carried away with it.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

PR_Glen

i was bigger than you when i was 21 and have been training for 20 years and didn't work half as hard as you i'm sure.. so lets not bother using sizes and years of experience as a credential as there are plenty of fools with both that don't know what they are talking about.

was arnold on hgh or steroids? i'm pretty sure its the latter and i'm pretty sure it led to damaging his heart.. one example doesn't really make much of an argument though does it? ;)

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xNetworx

My doctor uses roids.... I always thought that was interesting

Robbie

Arnold was taking steroids back when athletes were taking a lot of them ORALLY.

It's a miracle any of them survived with their livers intact. Today's bodybuilders inject intramuscular almost exclusively.

Also keep in mind that Arnold was MR OLYMPIA
That means he used steroids in quantities that are insanely abusive.

And as I said before...you can take thousands of aspirin every day and injure your body (even die) So yeah...if you take 1000's of times the amount of steroids that are safe (like professional bodybuilders do) you could very well hurt yourself.

Having said that...I plan on drinking many, many times the "safe" level of alcohol this weekend.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Choopa Phil

I was answering his question not flashing "credentials" my man. You seem to take a lot of what I say to heart. You were bigger than me at 21 but you also didnt start as a 115lb twig with no muscle mass either. I'm not turning this into a competition between the both of us but you really have no room to talk anyone can say theyre bigger than someone else, im 5'7 and 185lbs @ 8% bf currently so of course if ur taller ur gunna weigh more. Not really gunna get all that much bigger due to genetic limitation you know? And arnold was on a diet of Dbol, proviron and testosterone, for months if not years on end. If you drank every night you would get liver damage too...its all relative, same can be said with asprin, oxys, and everything else. Also lets not get into the realm of how mentally addictive steroids are as well.

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tical

Yes and there are plenty of medical studies illustrating that testosterone deficiency in men is detrimental to their health and that by restoring optimal "natural" levels of the hormone reduces this danger.

A UK study showed that men with heart disease died sooner if they had low testosterone.

As for your dad, you, and your uncles... have you ever thought that perhaps you guys were just genetically gifted? Most old men aren't out fighting in bars. They're being old men.

Not because of food or the kind of job they work, because of genetic aging.

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dgraves

Steroids don't kill people, the idiots that take them kill themselves.

It doesn't matter what the drug is, taking too much is going to create side affects. It just happens that most bodybuilders don't know the meaning of "moderation".

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Choopa Phil

Back to my thought about being mentally addictive...more more more...high doses of androgens usually amplify pre-existing mental conditions as well. Makes OCD worse, bi-polar, you name it. You really need to make sure you are in 100% good health before deciding to go the HRT route.

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bronco67

Is the over-use of roids the reason it's getting tougher and tougher to avoid aggressive douche-bag types?

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dgraves

Exactly. Testosterone gets a bad rep from abuse, not use, just like every other drug.

The vast majority of negative affects from T is a result of the body trying to get rid of excessive amounts of it.

The only thing we can blindly apply "more is better" to is money.

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Bryan G

Quite sure you once said that too many fruits would kill you.....but steroids are ok?!?!? Lol. If I'm wrong I apologize but think it was you.

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VenusBlogger

HAHAHAHAHAHA... Ok dude.. Believe that if you want... It's your body.

It's just a shame you or some other guys taking this shit, hate yourself that badly to get on drugs.

You want to fuck your body? Ok, its your choice after all. I just say your body doesn't deserve to be fucked by your brain.. A shame your body can't say "no" to your CRUEL BRAIN.

Period.

Robbie

man, what is your problem? Just do some research on google and quit attacking other people. Your ideas aren't correct or even close to fact. We've all cited stuff for you to look up and get educated. But you are apparently just wanting to troll and start shit.

Have fun. I hope you don't act that way in real life.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

He also PLAINLY said several times that steroid abuse (like the abuse of ANYTHING) can kill you.
WTF?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

VenusBlogger

Agree with you there.

It really makes no sense to compare to ARNOLD or LOU, saying that they are in their 60-70 and are in good health... Man, obviously these guys have no idea the millions ARNOLD SPENT in treatments to try to clean their bodies of all the shit they used, and still they could not clean completely...

Just look at the list of Bodybuilders (men and women) that die at a young age, between their 40's and 55's, due of a cause directly or indirectly linked to steroid use...

Its crazy how STEROID USERS try to find a reason to justify steroids and keep using them.

Steroids are clearly affecting their minds. The first symptom of a DRUG ADDICT is neglecting reality.

Period.

VenusBlogger

I tell you exactly the SAME, do some research to find the long term side IRREVERSIBLE effects of STEROIDS.

I think you are completely wrong.

Robbie

What! LOL!!! If you watched Arnold's movies up until he became governor he was still heavily on steroids.

Are you just making stuff up as you go? lol

And why don't you give us a list of the bodybuilders who "die young"?

And also...do you not understand the difference between a bodybuilder using 1000's of times the amount that you should use and a normal person on testosterone replacement therapy from their doctor (tens of millions of men).

You sure are coming across aggressive in what was a discussion. If you believe what you say...then just never use testosterone when you get older.
And maybe you should go to the doctor NOW (if you are young) and have them try to get all the testosterone out of your body.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

I know the side effects of steroid ABUSE. But you don't seem to be able to see the difference between your doctor prescribing you testosterone as you age...and a body builder abusing it everyday.

YOU are completely wrong.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

d-null

what about zits?

tical

Don't get so emotional and worried about what everyone else is doing. If you don't want to take steroids, then don't.

If you honestly don't realize (or refuse to believe) that your own body produces some of the same steroids that you are bitching about, you shouldn't even be in this conversation.

It's simple biology. The steroid testosterone (yes, the same testosterone bodybuilders use) is right there in the 4th row. Derived from precursor steroid hormones.... all coming from cholesterol.

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VenusBlogger

You know what? I dont fucking care if you want to fuck your own body...

You want to fuck your own body? GO AHEAD, I will not keep wasting my time to try to convince otherwise.

Go ahead and fuck it completely if you want, its your body after all.

Time will tell the truth.

Bye.

Slappin Fish

Hormone Replacement Therapy for women has been widely accepted for years, not only a better quality of life but it increased their life expectancy. Increased bone mass density for example reduces the risk of hip fractures sometimes the beginning of the end for older people..

TRT for men will go the same way, give it 10 years or so and every doctor will offer it to their over 50 patients

Robbie

Okay. I'm 50 years old (51 in Nov.) I am extremely athletic. Can run like the wind. Lift heavy weights. Fuck all night long. Drink all night long. Work 14 hours a day without blinking.

I don't have a wrinkled face. My eyes are bright and clear. I run a 7 figure a year business with multiple revenue streams that I built myself and continue to run myself.

I'm not sure where you think I'm fucking myself? I feel great, think fast, and can out run, out fight, and out fuck most guys half my age. I've been using testosterone for over a decade now. I guess that takes out your "time will tell the truth" comment. As does "Dr. Life" who is now 73 years old and could whip your ass and fuck your woman.

I'm healthy as a horse and hardly ever get sick anymore. Everyone around me was dropping during the flu season. Not me.

You've been shown scientific evidence. You've been shown that doctors around the U.S. prescribe it to tens of millions of men (they don't have to prescribe it in other countries...you can just buy it over the counter like aspirin). You've been told by me and others that use it the benefits that they have seen.

And you STILL say that? It's like you're holding your hands over your ears and going "La-La-La-La" so you won't hear the truth.

I'm not sure why you're so vehement about guys replacing their lost testosterone as they age. But when you get a little older I hope you DON'T use testosterone. You're cock won't get hard, you will be a fat, soft, unhealthy little man that will live a short life with poor quality.

Enjoy!

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

d-null

actually HRT for women is as controversial as ever and they are now finding out that it wasn't as good as they thought it was and many women are getting off of it because they are realizing natural is better, many worries about side effects and dangers to health