Paul Markham

Gun control doesn't mean banning gun ownership. Only the scared put that forward.

What it should mean is a proper regulation of who is buying what, when, how many and how often. Look at the mass killings carried out over the last few years and ask, "Why wasn't a red flag raised to spot these guys buying guns and lots of ammunition?"

Yes it won't stop these guys going into a school with a knife, bow and arrow, spear, rock or baseball bat. Just reduce the fatalities.

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sperbonzo

Nothing sheepish about anything. The banks we were dealing with suddenly showed signs of being unstable, and we decided NOT to move ahead with the project. We made that decision so that nobody, including ourselves, would get screwed over. As it turned out, our decision was the correct one, and other people that were dealing with that insttution DID get screwed over. I had someone else here ask me about it months and months ago, and I already told this to them here.


p.s. the stats in that wiki article are very twisted, and I can dig into the reasons why, but sometimes I realize that it makes no difference what anyone posts here, in terms of changing anyones mind, and I actually do have a business to run, so I don't always have time to look all this stuff up.



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Freaky_Akula

Garry Johnson for President!

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helterskelter808

Tell it to the ghost of James Madison, slave-owning 'Father' of the Bill of Rights.

ThunderBalls

Republicans idea of a perfect society

L-Pink

huh .......

.

Freaky_Akula

Gun control leads to

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ThunderBalls

If you want to sit on your porch with an AK47 and protect your property from an invading internal army, fine, but if you think that two trained American soldiers can't take your assault rifle from you and shove it right up your ass you are clearly delusional.

Freaky_Akula

You prefer to go quietly instead of defending your family?

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crazyvipa

That seems the be the consensus these days. I, for one, feel bad for anyone who tries to take any of my rights away. There may be more of "them" than me, but if I go down, I'll be sure to go down swinging.

I don't care what laws are passed or what crisis happens. Good luck taking my protection, food, transportation, or home from me.

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arock10

Ok so it's my body so can we fully legalize all drugs and abortions already? ABORTIONS FOR ALL!

But then of course you'll just respond a fetus is a separate human being

And then I'll respond not if it cant survive out of the womb

But you'll come back with we need these unwanted babies so they can commit crimes and buy weapons on the black market. So this is the reason why we need to be able to buy AK47s to kill them

So maybe I should just stick with the argument legalize and tax weed and limit gun use.

But I'm rambling...

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ThunderBalls

There are over 2000 SWAT raids performed in this country daily, why arent you out there fighting against that govt tyranny and protecting their rights? I have no doubt if one of those raids were performed on your house you would lay down like the rest.

Slappin Fish

Slappin Fish

Sorry can't resist posting BFT3K's satire...



I don't like nanny states, against an outright ban, but this I'll fight invading armies excuse makes me chuckle.

crazyvipa

Spoken like a true coward...

Don't assume the masses would lay down and take it. I know a lot of people talk, but if someone wrongfully bashes down my door trying to take my property, they will be met with equal force.

I know for a fact, there are many many many people who feel the same way as I do. The number of people who are prepared for the day something like that would happen -- would surprise the hell out of you.

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ThunderBalls

You're the one so afraid of your own shadow that you feel you need a weapon to leave your house and I'm the coward. Makes perfect sense.

lucas131

anybody know about some paying gun and ammo selling sponsor?

dirtydiablos

....... That painted a very scary picture//

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crazyvipa

You'll be the person who ends up standing behind people like me who will fight for our constitutional rights.

preparation: the action or process of making something ready for use or service or of getting ready for some occasion, test, or duty

You'll change your tune in the event you end up needing it. By then, it will be too late and you'll be on the 9pm news -- all because of your ignorance.

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sandman!

yesss

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BFT3K

Rocket launchers are illegal.

Remember the 2nd amendment is to allow the private militias (citizens) to keep the government in check.

Problem is, you are not allowed any weapons that are on-par with the government's military, so it is now just solid bullshit.

The politicians say we don't need gun control. Okay cool, let's stop scanning people for guns when they enter state and federal buildings. Let's really do away with it once and for all. Let's make teflon coated bullets legal too - why not, you gotta protect yourself against tyranny, right?

BFT3K

What a truly pathetic world we live in...

ThunderBalls

Says the guy with a dozen generators and 10,000 boxes of pudding that went to waste in preparation for Y2K. I'm sure they will get plenty of use though with 2012 fastly approaching.

crazyvipa

lol, those are all Call of Duty guns ... :-/

Honestly, most of those are NOT legal for a civilian to own btw. To name a few, the shotgun(s) with the exception to the AA & Spaz. Basically the entire top half of the firearms as they are able to be converted to fully automatic. They do have counter-parts that are made by different companies with the same label.... those are semi-auto and use different parts so you can't swap in & out to make a Full-Auto.

H&K does not sell their MP5 to civilians. Finding H&K MP5 pre 1986 ban is ~40k ... and usually does not work.

The scariest firearm up there that can actually be purchased is the 50 cal rifles. You can buy those for $5k easily -- and ~ $1-$3/round.



But point taken on the photo lol

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brassmonkey

shoot shoot shoot i may hunt this weekend

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crazyvipa

Enough, Thunderbolt , when you have something intelligent to say -- rejoin the discussion.

I don't need to store food and use a generator, I have guns & ammo. I can hunt & kill to feed my family. You'll need to hope for charity... or... you could always resort to:




sorry, that was mean...

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xenigo

The same argument is always raised whenever I open up a discussion about the future of fully autonomous vehicles. Auto enthusiasts always say "you're not going to STOP people from being killed in a car. Why even attempt to stop it? If you insist in being in something that you don't control, why don't you just take the bus?"

Since we can't stop vehicular fatalities, it would make sense by their logic to remove seatbelts... and take away reinforced cross bracing, to put gas tanks on the outside of the frame structure (Ford Pinto, anyone?) and do away with crumple zones and airbags. We'll also remove the electronic stability traction control that has been credited with reducing fatalities by several percentage points over the years since it became mandatory. The reason for removing all the safety equipment will be "we can't stop auto fatalities".

Makes sense... only to these idiots.

So yeah, in their fantasy world... the world is currently perfect. Technology should never advance. Let's just bring back the horse and buggy, wash boards and buckets, and let's all move into caves.

ShoeBox

helterskelter808

In which countries with gun control is the Government breaking down doors taking people's property? Or food or transportation.

Why would it happen? It hasn't happened in any other analogous country.

D Ghost

Gun control only just creates a nice confidence boost for the criminals who will get guns regardless of their legality. Because hey I got this gun, and chances are now way less people have them, yipppeee!

DO YOU THINK CRIMINALS FOLLOW THE PROPER PROCEDURES FOR GETTING WEAPONS ALL THE TIME, ,NO, they are criminals? Do you think it will stop them from getting a gun?

Are we banning knives now since their a crazy person who stabs someone? How about paper clips, let's control those too.

And shit.... what about ROCKS?! I can throw a rock pretty far and give someone a concussion if my aim is good enough, let's ban those too.

Does a heroin addict not do heroin because it's illegal? How about coke or PCP?

BFT3K

How most criminals get guns...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ocon/guns.html

xenigo

Exactly. I want a fucking F22 so I can protect myself. I want grenade launchers, and I want an H&K MP7. If we're supposed to be able to protect ourselves against the government, I at least need equality. A little Glock pea-shooter isn't going to do anything.

How about nuclear weapons? I think the world would be MUCH safer if we all just had a big red button that we'd all carry around in our pockets that would end the world with 1 press. Think about how much safer we'd be.

To those making the argument that because cars cause more fatalities than guns, we should ban cars... or since spoons lead to choking deaths, we should ban spoons; There's 1 critical difference. Cars are specifically designed to transport people. Spoons are designed to feed people. Guns... are designed to kill people. See the distinction? It's small, but it's there.

To reiterate my original point... if we put guns in the hands of everyone in society, we're putting our lives in the hands of those people too. Sorry, but if anyone decides to put a bullet in your head at any moment... you will NOT have the ability to defend yourself from that...

Let's touch on the "you're going to die either way, if someone wants to kill you. Banning guns won't make you safe" argument. Sure, someone could stab you. Someone could run you over. Someone could throw you off a high-rise building. Someone could drown you. Lots of ways someone could kill you without a gun. But here's what I find unsettling; Guns give you point-and-shoot access to end anyone's life with the click of a finger. People die in firearms accidents all the time. Even police die in firearms accidents, and they've got more training than 99% of society. Those accidents wouldn't be possible if it wasn't so incredibly easy to just simply pull a trigger to take someone's life.

There was a drive-by shooting in Jack London Square in Oakland a few weeks ago. I believe 5 people were shot, none fatally. Do you think if guns weren't accessible to the shooter, that drive-by shooting would have been a drive-by stabbing? Can you imagine him jumping out of his car, and stabbing people? No, that would have presented a problem for him. He was shooting people because it was the easiest thing to do without the potential of getting caught. Do you think he would have just simply ran everyone over? I'm guessing probably not. But because of the ease of pointing a gun, and pulling it's trigger... that's the tool that made it happen so easily and conveniently.

The goal should be eliminating the convenience of killing, not attempting to make it more convenient to kill people.

Matyko

no, this is very untrue

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D Ghost

Yes 15% stolen, and that will be 100% stolen once gun control is full throttle ;)

Also, there is a difference between stolen and "sold" something that was procured legally, then put into black market.

xenigo

Why do we ban nuclear weapons? Why do we ban automatic weapons? Why do we not sell military weapons to the public? I think it's something to do with the potential of everyone killing eachother with them.

Why stop there? Why do we get to "protect" ourselves with panzy-ass pea shooters but not rocket launchers?

In order to protect myself, I need a



so I can make this happen. For protection.

Si

crazyvipa

- Was responding to ThunderBalls' replies about "SWAT" busting down doors of people. Gladly, it has not happened that I know of... yet. Just because it hasn't, doesn't mean it won't.

- Same goes for this.. just because something has never happened before, doesn't mean it won't. Preparation is key to success.

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Si

Interesting read, but the pro gun bunch probably think that is the FBI trying to take away their rights in a conspiracy.

Like it has been mentioned. At the time when your constitution was written, the people in power had rifles, and the people who weren't in power had rifles.

These days it is Handguns and Rifles Vs Tanks, Missiles, Helicopters, Nukes etc.

u-Bob

yes. Your body, your decision.

If you want to do drugs all day, you are allowed to do that. It's your body. Personally I think it's very stupid to do drugs all day, but I have no right to decide how you should live your life.

Don't be surprised if other people refuse to hire you or allow you to come near their home or children when you decide to do drugs all day, but the fact remains that as long as you don't cause damage to another human or his property, you can put whatever substance you like in your own body.

No, I won't.

Tom_PM

People tend to go for the All or Nothing sides of this thing. Prevent one giant ammo clip = taking my rights away. Well.. no it doesnt. Not even close. In my state you already can't legally own the AR 15 rifle that punk had in Colorado.

The federal assault weapons ban expired in 2004 on the very date the senate was forced to have a debate on whether or not we should have a constitutional ban on gay marriage in case you wanted some trivia that illustrates some of our f'ed up political agendas in this country.

In regards to that Colorado kid.. I would bet anything that THAT particular punk ass loser would never have done jack shit with guns if they had not been completely legal for him to buy. Someone ELSE might have, but not THAT pansy.

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arock10

Drive By Stabbings!!!!

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xenigo

Exactly. And I think that pretty much applies to most people. Most people don't have connections in the seedy underworld of illegal gun suppliers. And that eliminates the only source for the vast vast majority of people.

tony286

actually not so
http://www.natvan.com/national-vangu...gunhitler.html
"Gun registration and licensing (for long guns as well as for handguns) were legislated by an anti-National Socialist government in Germany in 1928, five years before the National Socialists gained power. Hitler became Chancellor on January 30, 1933. Five years later his government got around to rewriting the gun law enacted a decade earlier by his predecessors, substantially amel ior a ting it in the process (for example, long guns were exempted from the requirement for a purchase permit; the legal age for gun ownership was lowered from 20 to 18 years; the period of validity of a permit to carry weapons was extended from one to three years; and provisions restricting the amount of ammunition or the number of firearms an individual could own were dropped). Hitler's government may be criticized for leaving certain restrictions and licensing requirements in the law, but the National Socialists had no intention of preventing law-abiding Germans from keeping or bearing arms. Again, the firearms law enacted by Hitler's government enhanced the rights of Germans to keep and bear arms; no new restrictions were added, and many pre-existing restrictions were relaxed or eliminated."

SuckOnThis

Guns make pussies feel like real men.

xenigo

Yep. They're basically penis extensions. Similar to lifted trucks.

I'm disappointed nobody wanted to discuss my scenario with everyone carrying a gun.

Rochard

Can you show me one incident where an armed gun man walked into a room and popped smoke bombs with 200 people, ten of which were armed, and they were able to take him out without hurting anyone else?

You seem to think that everyone is James Bond and can instantly go from fun loving movie goer to SWAT team in seconds flat. Sure thing, because anyone can just suddenly drop into a combat situation and take care of business while surrounded by their family.

I'm former US Marine who taught advanced infantry tactics to Marine NCOs and Marine Officers, I have more assault rifles in my house than you do, and I run every day of my life. And if you think I'm going to be to go from stuffing my face with popcorn to a gun battle in seconds and have any luck of hitting my target, your kidding yourself.

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helterskelter808

You wouldn't think it needed explaining. Ironically, it means gun owners who don't go around blowing people away are misusing their firearm.

Whether he did or not is academic anyway. The whole "Hitler disarmed Germans" is just a bunch of copy and pasted NRA guff mindlessly parroted by gunloons, along with stuff about Switzerland and trying to make gun killings about mental illness, rather than something that might eat into the profits of gun manufacturers. Ironically these mass murders end up increasing sales of guns; now there's a conspiracy worth looking into.

Let's say Hitler did disarm Germans, what's the point the NRA is making? That Germans would have stopped WWII? The Holocaust? Nobody even knew about the Holocaust till after the war ended and, until they started losing, most Germans were perfectly happy with their army restoring German pride in cities around Europe. Likewise with their shiny new Volkswagens, and swanky autobahns.

The idea that armed citizens would have stood a chance against a regime that kicked the shit out of multiple world superpowers is absurd.

helterskelter808

Someone posted a video in another thread of some old geezer blazing away at two robbers in an internet cafe. Despite being about 3 feet away he didn't get a single shot on target and carried on shooting at them after they left the shop, firing out of the door into the street.

I think the robbers were armed, so it's fortunate they ran rather than shooting back.

Mr Pheer

This shit is getting really fucking old. I wish you would all stop crying about guns.

Guns are legal. Murder is not. You're aiming at the wrong target.

Knives are legal, baseball bats, clubs, and hammers are legal, people get murdered with those all the time as well. There is no difference, murder is murder no matter what the tool is. Legally owning a gun does not make anyone a bad person. Murdering people is what makes them a bad person.

Wash the sand out of your vaginas.

Freaky_Akula

[QUOTE=xenigo;19080276]Guns... are designed to kill people./QUOTE]But they still need a human to aim and pull the trigger. You can take it to the range and shoot a few targets or you can make a decision to aim it at a living person. You can use it for sport, for self defense or you can make a decision to use it for evil. You can also make a decision to use a knife, a car or a baseball bat for evil. See the difference? It is all about the decision you consciously decide to make. Why blame an object for the crime a criminal decided to commit? Stop making excuses for criminals.

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