Canadian VS US Healthcare Article - GoFuckYourself.com

Socks · 08-09-2012, 04:34 PM

PORT TOWNSEND, Wash. (MarketWatch) ? It?s a relief to see hard facts finally emerging on this side of the border about Canada?s single-payer health-care system.

For years I?ve heard Canada?s popular medicare (the Canadian term for universal health care) system slagged by lies, distortions, and outright ignorance on U.S. radio talk shows and other American popular media (where do people GET this stuff?). And for years, I?ve tried to set the record straight in my online and newspaper columns, having lived in Canada and actually having used their system. My son and his family are now covered by it in Vancouver.

Also, for years I?ve heard from Canadians, in Comments under my pieces and in email, thanking me for trying to set the record straight. They overwhelmingly like their medical delivery system, which turned 50 just last month.

I?ve also heard Canadian talk-show callers upset and incredulous about the nonsense being circulated south of the border about their single-payer medical system, which is still evolving as Ottawa pays less and the provinces pay more of growing health-care costs.

Anyone who wants a strong, honest defense of the Canadian system should keep a copy handy (and print out, as I have) a well-written piece ? a touchstone, actually ? in the latest online edition of the journal of the U.S.? large and powerful AARP.

The well-researched, fact-based AARP article is written by an American, Aaron E. Carroll, M.D., and is titled ? 5 Myths About Canada?s Health Care System .? Its subhead:

?The truth may surprise you.? It just might, my fellow Americans.

To separate fact from polarizing talk-show nonsense, Carroll, the director of the Center for Health Policy and Professional Research in Indianapolis, examined the major myths about the Canadian and U.S. systems, myths I hear repeatedly voiced on U.S. talk shows of all political stripes.

The first myth Carroll takes on is the oft-heard one about Canadians supposedly ?flocking? to the U.S. to get medical care. An eye-popping pie chart, generated by peer-reviewed journal ?Health Affairs,? shows only a tiny sliver of Canadians heading south for care ? less than 1%.

Even more telling here is a ?Health Affairs? survey of U.S. hospitals near the Canadian border, where you?d expect all these ?care-deprived? Canucks to go first. A vast majority saw fewer than one Canadian a month. Bigger hospitals, even those rated by U.S. News & World Report as ?America?s Best,? also saw very few Canadians, in either emergency or elective care. And these are exactly the hospitals where you?d expect to well-off Canadians to go.

(I love the metaphorical title of the Health Affairs study, ?Phantoms in the Snow: Canadians? Use of Health Care Services in the U.S.?)

The second myth, about Canadian doctors supposedly taking U.S. jobs, is also debunked by Carroll?s research and facts, which show high Canadian physician satisfaction in Canada and fewer Canadian doctors heading south to practice ? less than 0.5% of all Canadian MD?s in the most recent findings.

(Charts and graphs from hard data, something many MarketWatch readers appreciate. Carroll?s well-researched article is loaded with them).

The third myth concerns how Canadians ration health care in specific areas. Every Western nation rations medical care out of necessity. As we?ve mentioned here before, Americans have chosen (so far, anyway) to ration medical care by income.

One favorite argument, heard on the floor of Congress and elsewhere, is that Canada denies hip replacements to older people. Absolutely not true, Carroll documents. Older Canadians get a ton of hip replacements. He can?t resist adding this wry note in the AARP piece:

?Know who pays for care for older people in the U.S.? Medicare. A single-payer system.?

The fourth myth is that Canadians have far longer wait times for medical treatment because of its system. This is one I hear all the time. Carroll says this is true, BUT...there?s a good reason:

Canadians have shown admirable restraint ? something normally in short supply here in the U.S. They?ve actually opted to hold down medicare costs by consciously waiting longer and limiting supply, mostly for elective procedures. Imagine that.

Canadians, in other words, have made a choice to be fiscally conservative, Carroll says in his well- documented article. They?re more realistic and less demanding than many American patients are. Carroll says that Canadians COULD, if they wanted to, cut down wait times ? by spending more on health care. But they?ve actually made a conscious choice not to do this.

This is no smoke screen: I?ve heard callers on Canadian radio shows state exactly this many times. They?d rather show personal restraint by waiting a bit longer than running up deficits.

The final myth about Canada rationing health care in its system and the U.S. not doing so governmentally, is trickier, Carroll admits. But he points out that although the U.S. pays quite a bit more of its GDP than Canada does on health care, far more Americans in need of care go unseen by doctors. And U.S. medical outcomes, he adds, are middling at best.

Feel free to have a discussion on the two systems, Carroll concludes. His piece has hundreds of Comments below it, not surprisingly ? many of them rehashing the same old tired myths about Canada?s popular system his piece debunks).

But, he adds, but if you do have a discussion on this important subject, ?Stick to the facts.?

Given the U.S.? history in this politically charged area, as my Canadian friends would put it, ?Not bloody likely.?

Bill Mann is a MarketWatch columnist, based in Port Townsend, Wash.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/myt...ked-2012-08-09

epitome · 08-09-2012, 04:45 PM

Knowing a ton of Canadians myself, I've always known that talk show hosts, etc. lied about the quality of care and service in Canada. Yeah it's not perfect, but neither is the US system. What is perfect? Nothing.

Rochard · 08-09-2012, 04:46 PM

It's too freaking cold in Canada.

thehand · 08-09-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's too freaking cold in Canada.

suesheboy · 08-09-2012, 05:12 PM

I can't afford to poo in Canada

acrylix · 08-09-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

?The truth may surprise you.? It just might, my fellow Americans.

Bill8 · 08-09-2012, 05:43 PM

Right wingers "misreport" the facts, and when the numbers are checked they do not support their claims?

I'm shocked.

Barry-xlovecam · 08-09-2012, 07:42 PM

Obamacare haters line up ... I await their spin ...

_Richard_ · 08-09-2012, 09:31 PM

"less than 0.5% of all Canadian MD’s in the most recent findings."

this is crazy.. everyone always goes on about the 'brain drain'

xXXtesy10 · 08-09-2012, 09:38 PM

Socialized medicine sucks. People better get used to waiting lists.

GrantMercury · 08-10-2012, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Knowing a ton of Canadians myself, I've always known that talk show hosts, etc. lied about the quality of care and service in Canada. Yeah it's not perfect, but neither is the US system. What is perfect? Nothing.

Yup. A close friend of mine is Canadian. They LOVE the Canadian health care system, and think ours is fucking barbaric (which it is).

Obamacare will help. It'll be a step in the right direction.

GrantMercury · 08-10-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXXtesy10

Socialized medicine sucks. People better get used to waiting lists.

WTF do you know about "socialized medicine" (other than the "sky-is-falling" HORSESHIT you hear on talk radio and Fox News)?

Waiting lists.

Brujah · 08-10-2012, 06:20 PM

How do you explain the Canadians on the forum who had always told us how terrible the Canadian health care system is?

tony286 · 08-10-2012, 06:22 PM

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html

The truth may surprise you about international health care

garce · 08-10-2012, 07:09 PM

That's right... THAT'S RIGHT!

Damn! I was going to post a ZZTop video but I got bored looking. So, here's some porn:

Better get yourself some cheap sunglasses!

directfiesta · 08-10-2012, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

How do you explain the Canadians on the forum who had always told us how terrible the Canadian health care system is?

they were trying to get the " bro " status ....

CurrentlySober · 08-11-2012, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suesheboy

I can't afford to poo in Canada

Ditto...

CurrentlySober · 08-11-2012, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks

t?s a relief to see hard facts finally emerging...

Well. I could TRY i suppose...

tony286 · 08-11-2012, 05:07 AM

My father had a heart attack in the uk while on a business trip . He got wonderful care and it cost him nothing. I have friends around the world never heard a awful story about socialized healthcare. And no one goes bankrupt from medical bills.

Bryan G · 08-11-2012, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

How do you explain the Canadians on the forum who had always told us how terrible the Canadian health care system is?

There will be bad cases no matter what country you are in. Overall I will guarantee more canadians are completely satisfied with our system than not. As for people that always talk await waiting lists if you are in need of urgent care you are taken care of right away. I have absolutely no concern about healthcare in canada and I've been here my whole life.

Socks · 08-11-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

How do you explain the Canadians on the forum who had always told us how terrible the Canadian health care system is?

Human nature. People love to complain, and living here there's just not a lot of things to complain about, so things like this move up the list.

Today's front page news story in the Toronto Star was about a woman and her ex-husband lawyer who lost a class action law suit against the city. She parked her car "in a blizzard" and tried to pay at the machine, but it wasn't working. So she gave up. She got a ticket for $31, paid it, and then filed a class action lawsuit against the city...

The basic rule is that you have to walk, oh, 20-30 feet to the next parking meter and a get a ticket from that one instead. Logical enough right? But I guess not.. I guess that's class-action lawsuit worthy. MAKING ME WALK 20 FEET?! FUCK YOU AND YOUR CITY IN THE ASSSSSS.

She lost the suit, and now owes over $70k in court fees.

This is the kind of shit people are "up in arms" about around here. THE CALAMITY.

just a punk · 08-11-2012, 10:57 AM

I'm not a Canadian/US citizen so it's just a my 2 cents.

My wife was trying some new diet during the last few months (you know, women love all those things), and recently decided to know if it (the diet) does hurt her health. So she went to a local clinic (just about 200 meters away from our home) and asked the doctor to give her a medical check-up prescription.

So she did a full blood test (biochemistry), a test on cancer markers, a test on blood-transmissed diseases (HBs, HIV and others), radiography, cardiogram, hormonal blood tests, gynecologist and mammologist consultations including the examinations and all the standard analysis.

Everything was 100% free (she doesn't have a paid medical insurance) and taken just one day.

This is how the free health care works in my country.

shake · 08-11-2012, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

"less than 0.5% of all Canadian MD?s in the most recent findings."

this is crazy.. everyone always goes on about the 'brain drain'

Plus you have to look at the other side, my family doctor is from California as was one specialist I went to

08-09-2012, 04:34 PM	#1
Socks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 8,475	Canadian VS US Healthcare Article PORT TOWNSEND, Wash. (MarketWatch) ? It?s a relief to see hard facts finally emerging on this side of the border about Canada?s single-payer health-care system. For years I?ve heard Canada?s popular medicare (the Canadian term for universal health care) system slagged by lies, distortions, and outright ignorance on U.S. radio talk shows and other American popular media (where do people GET this stuff?). And for years, I?ve tried to set the record straight in my online and newspaper columns, having lived in Canada and actually having used their system. My son and his family are now covered by it in Vancouver. Also, for years I?ve heard from Canadians, in Comments under my pieces and in email, thanking me for trying to set the record straight. They overwhelmingly like their medical delivery system, which turned 50 just last month. I?ve also heard Canadian talk-show callers upset and incredulous about the nonsense being circulated south of the border about their single-payer medical system, which is still evolving as Ottawa pays less and the provinces pay more of growing health-care costs. Anyone who wants a strong, honest defense of the Canadian system should keep a copy handy (and print out, as I have) a well-written piece ? a touchstone, actually ? in the latest online edition of the journal of the U.S.? large and powerful AARP. The well-researched, fact-based AARP article is written by an American, Aaron E. Carroll, M.D., and is titled ? 5 Myths About Canada?s Health Care System .? Its subhead: ?The truth may surprise you.? It just might, my fellow Americans. To separate fact from polarizing talk-show nonsense, Carroll, the director of the Center for Health Policy and Professional Research in Indianapolis, examined the major myths about the Canadian and U.S. systems, myths I hear repeatedly voiced on U.S. talk shows of all political stripes. The first myth Carroll takes on is the oft-heard one about Canadians supposedly ?flocking? to the U.S. to get medical care. An eye-popping pie chart, generated by peer-reviewed journal ?Health Affairs,? shows only a tiny sliver of Canadians heading south for care ? less than 1%. Even more telling here is a ?Health Affairs? survey of U.S. hospitals near the Canadian border, where you?d expect all these ?care-deprived? Canucks to go first. A vast majority saw fewer than one Canadian a month. Bigger hospitals, even those rated by U.S. News & World Report as ?America?s Best,? also saw very few Canadians, in either emergency or elective care. And these are exactly the hospitals where you?d expect to well-off Canadians to go. (I love the metaphorical title of the Health Affairs study, ?Phantoms in the Snow: Canadians? Use of Health Care Services in the U.S.?) The second myth, about Canadian doctors supposedly taking U.S. jobs, is also debunked by Carroll?s research and facts, which show high Canadian physician satisfaction in Canada and fewer Canadian doctors heading south to practice ? less than 0.5% of all Canadian MD?s in the most recent findings. (Charts and graphs from hard data, something many MarketWatch readers appreciate. Carroll?s well-researched article is loaded with them). The third myth concerns how Canadians ration health care in specific areas. Every Western nation rations medical care out of necessity. As we?ve mentioned here before, Americans have chosen (so far, anyway) to ration medical care by income. One favorite argument, heard on the floor of Congress and elsewhere, is that Canada denies hip replacements to older people. Absolutely not true, Carroll documents. Older Canadians get a ton of hip replacements. He can?t resist adding this wry note in the AARP piece: ?Know who pays for care for older people in the U.S.? Medicare. A single-payer system.? The fourth myth is that Canadians have far longer wait times for medical treatment because of its system. This is one I hear all the time. Carroll says this is true, BUT...there?s a good reason: Canadians have shown admirable restraint ? something normally in short supply here in the U.S. They?ve actually opted to hold down medicare costs by consciously waiting longer and limiting supply, mostly for elective procedures. Imagine that. Canadians, in other words, have made a choice to be fiscally conservative, Carroll says in his well- documented article. They?re more realistic and less demanding than many American patients are. Carroll says that Canadians COULD, if they wanted to, cut down wait times ? by spending more on health care. But they?ve actually made a conscious choice not to do this. This is no smoke screen: I?ve heard callers on Canadian radio shows state exactly this many times. They?d rather show personal restraint by waiting a bit longer than running up deficits. The final myth about Canada rationing health care in its system and the U.S. not doing so governmentally, is trickier, Carroll admits. But he points out that although the U.S. pays quite a bit more of its GDP than Canada does on health care, far more Americans in need of care go unseen by doctors. And U.S. medical outcomes, he adds, are middling at best. Feel free to have a discussion on the two systems, Carroll concludes. His piece has hundreds of Comments below it, not surprisingly ? many of them rehashing the same old tired myths about Canada?s popular system his piece debunks). But, he adds, but if you do have a discussion on this important subject, ?Stick to the facts.? Given the U.S.? history in this politically charged area, as my Canadian friends would put it, ?Not bloody likely.? Bill Mann is a MarketWatch columnist, based in Port Townsend, Wash. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/myt...ked-2012-08-09

08-09-2012, 04:46 PM	#3
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,976	It's too freaking cold in Canada. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

08-09-2012, 05:12 PM	#5
suesheboy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: FL - TN/NC Posts: 5,211	I can't afford to poo in Canada __________________ Adult Web Site Domain Names For Sale Adult Sex Toy Domain Names For Sale Tantric Delights, Sex Toys Blog, Tantric Sex Toys

08-09-2012, 09:38 PM	#10
xXXtesy10 Fakecoin Investor Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: New Delhi, IN Posts: 7,127	Socialized medicine sucks. People better get used to waiting lists. __________________ WARNING: Stay Away From Marlboroack aka aka Brandon Ackerman https://gfy.com/21169705-post8.html Donny Long is Felon, Stalker, Scammer & Coward http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/...lon-int-761244

08-10-2012, 06:20 PM	#13
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	How do you explain the Canadians on the forum who had always told us how terrible the Canadian health care system is? __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

08-09-2012, 04:45 PM	#2
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Knowing a ton of Canadians myself, I've always known that talk show hosts, etc. lied about the quality of care and service in Canada. Yeah it's not perfect, but neither is the US system. What is perfect? Nothing.

08-09-2012, 05:43 PM	#7
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	Right wingers "misreport" the facts, and when the numbers are checked they do not support their claims? I'm shocked.

08-09-2012, 07:42 PM	#8
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Obamacare haters line up ... I await their spin ...

08-09-2012, 09:31 PM	#9
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 30,989	"less than 0.5% of all Canadian MD’s in the most recent findings." this is crazy.. everyone always goes on about the 'brain drain'

08-10-2012, 06:22 PM	#14
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...alth-care.html The truth may surprise you about international health care

08-10-2012, 07:09 PM	#15
garce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,103	That's right... THAT'S RIGHT! Damn! I was going to post a ZZTop video but I got bored looking. So, here's some porn: Better get yourself some cheap sunglasses!

08-11-2012, 05:07 AM	#19
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	My father had a heart attack in the uk while on a business trip . He got wonderful care and it cost him nothing. I have friends around the world never heard a awful story about socialized healthcare. And no one goes bankrupt from medical bills.

08-11-2012, 10:57 AM	#22
just a punk So fuckin' bored Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32,385	I'm not a Canadian/US citizen so it's just a my 2 cents. My wife was trying some new diet during the last few months (you know, women love all those things), and recently decided to know if it (the diet) does hurt her health. So she went to a local clinic (just about 200 meters away from our home) and asked the doctor to give her a medical check-up prescription. So she did a full blood test (biochemistry), a test on cancer markers, a test on blood-transmissed diseases (HBs, HIV and others), radiography, cardiogram, hormonal blood tests, gynecologist and mammologist consultations including the examinations and all the standard analysis. Everything was 100% free (she doesn't have a paid medical insurance) and taken just one day. This is how the free health care works in my country. __________________ Obey the Cowgod Last edited by just a punk; 08-11-2012 at 10:59 AM..