Ask the wealthy to pay a little more

[Minte]

Sounds like a great plan Mr.Obama.

Spread it around a bit. However, I am convinced if he is reelected he won't ask. He will just take it and waste it.

[epitome]

Well Mitt's tax rate for 2011 had he not fudged the numbers to stick to his 13% claim is about 11% less than I pay... I think he can handle it.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

Well Mitt's tax rate for 2011 had he not fudged the numbers to stick to his 13% claim is about 11% less than I pay... I think he can handle it.

Sure Mitt can. How about those making over $250k but under $20m.

[xNetworx]

Originally Posted by Minte

How about those making over $250k but under $20m.

250k-1m a year should be treated differently than somebody making 20m a year

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

Sure Mitt can. How about those making over $250k but under $20m.

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

[peterk]

maybe the poor should work a little more?

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

And that is the issue.. Obama does consider anyone making $250k a year wealthy and will *ask* those to pay a little bit more.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

The fact is you don't pay more. If you make $80k a year and pay 25% you are paying $20k a year. If you are making $1m a year and pay 14% you are paying $140k.

[Adraco]

But it is a difference in how the money is earned. For Romney to pay such low taxes, is because an absolute majority of his income is from his already earned capital working for him, so it's capital gains tax, which is lower than tax on labor.

Had he earned as much money as a normal salary, then he would have paid much more in taxes. The big difference between people, are those who can hoose how they want their income to be paid out and those who can't.

[mce]

Too many people want to make producers their bitches...

[Best-In-BC]

10-15% tax on new income is insanly low, I wish that was my numbers here in Canada, but I guess we have it all and nothing to complain to much about, we can always look south to make us fell better

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

And that is the issue.. Obama does consider anyone making $250k a year wealthy and will *ask* those to pay a little bit more.

$250k-500k is the range where you really get fucked and usually end up paying a true 30%. You don't make enough to get "creative" advisers and while you still have your deductions they usually aren't anything to write home about.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

The fact is you don't pay more. If you make $80k a year and pay 25% you are paying $20k a year. If you are making $1m a year and pay 14% you are paying $140k.

That can be blamed on the tax system that has been in effect since... well forever. These days we argue over % not total contributions. This country would be a shit hole if everybody paid say $12k a year in taxes in matter how much they made. You don't want to live in a shit hole, do you? This country wouldn't be what it is today if it didn't have % based tax system.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by Adraco

But it is a difference in how the money is earned. For Romney to pay such low taxes, is because an absolute majority of his income is from his already earned capital working for him, so it's capital gains tax, which is lower than tax on labor.

Had he earned as much money as a normal salary, then he would have paid much more in taxes. The big difference between people, are those who can hoose how they want their income to be paid out and those who can't.

He paid $2m in tax. That is real money, Not percentages,not talking points but $2m in real hard cash.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

That can be blamed on the tax system that has been in effect since... well forever. These days we argue over % not total contributions. This country would be a shit hole if everybody paid say $12k a year in taxes in matter how much they made. You don't want to live in a shit hole, do you? This country wouldn't be what it is today if it didn't have % based tax system.

I don't want the government to waste such enormous amounts of money. The interest the government pays every day on the national debt is more than everyone on this board will make in their entire lives.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

I don't want the government to waste such enormous amounts of money. The interest the government pays every day on the national debt is more than everyone on this board will make in their entire lives.

So if someone were elected tomorrow and had a Congress that would agree to no more deficits and then paying down the national debt through raising taxes you would have no problem with that?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Minte

He paid $2m in tax. That is real money, Not percentages,not talking points but $2m in real hard cash.

That must be the new talking point because the percentage is so small now we have to talk about the dollar amount instead.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by tony286

That must be the new talking point because the percentage is so small now we have to talk about the dollar amount instead.

Seriously? What is tax. It's a check that people that have an income write to the IRS. It's not a percentage. It's cash.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by tony286

That must be the new talking point because the percentage is so small now we have to talk about the dollar amount instead.

Yup, if he had taken all allowed deductions he would have come in a little over 10%. He didn't take all allowed deductions because he had previously said that he always pays around 13% or more or whatever. So he got himself there.

Of course he has also previously said that he would be disqualified to be president if he paid more in taxes than he has to, which is exactly what he is doing this year. So he's disqualified himself.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by epitome

So if someone were elected tomorrow and had a Congress that would agree to no more deficits and then paying down the national debt through raising taxes you would have no problem with that?

No. That is not acceptable. The deficit will only be brought down when the government stops spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave. The wealthy could pay 1/2 of what they earn and it won't even make a down payment on a $16 Trillion dollar debt.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Minte

No. That is not acceptable. The deficit will only be brought down when the government stops spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave. The wealthy could pay 1/2 of what they earn and it won't even make a down payment on a $16 Trillion dollar debt.

a big big part of gov spending is military you want them to pull out of everywhere,stop all that spending? I was curious does your factory have gov contracts?

[Kiopa_Matt]

All depends. If that extra tax money was actually going towards strengthening the middle class, it would be fine. Middle class grows, so in turn you get additional customers and revenue, things would balance themselves, and if anything you'd become wealthier due to a 3% tax increase.

Unfortunately, that money is probably going to go towards bombing brown people, and shady backroom deals with banks.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by tony286

a big big part of gov spending is military you want them to pull out of everywhere,stop all that spending? I was curious does your factory have gov contracts?

I didn't say pull out of everywhere. I said cut the waste. Reduce every government expense to the point where it's income at least equals the payables.

We have done some direct contracts with the US government. However, our largest government contract in 2011 was with the federal government of Vietnam.

[kane]

This is my prediction:

-Obama wins the election.
-Obama and the now Lame Duck congress let the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year.
- A few weeks later democrat leaders puts forth a new tax plan that will put the tax cuts for those making under $250K per year back in place, but leave the rates for those making more in place. The republicans will howl, but they will be in a bad place because Obama doesn't have another election to think about so he can pretty much do as he pleases and he will be out there telling people that the republicans are against middle class tax cuts. The republicans will eventually cave and pass the bill.

Will this hurt the economy? I doubt it. Will it help the economy? I doubt it. Without serious cuts in spending including massive spending cuts in military spending the budget issues will not be solved by milking a few more bucks from the nation's wealthy.

[Vendzilla]

You know there use to be a department of the government that looked for wasteful spending, it was cut in the last budget

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Minte

I didn't say pull out of everywhere. I said cut the waste. Reduce every government expense to the point where it's income at least equals the payables.

We have done some direct contracts with the US government. However, our largest government contract in 2011 was with the federal government of Vietnam.

There isnt as much waste as imagined. The wars are a very big part of debt and W kept it off the books and Obama put it on the books.

[tony286]

By the way minte you hire American workers, I think you should get huge tax breaks for doing that. Politically we may see everything different but I respect you for that.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Minte

I didn't say pull out of everywhere. I said cut the waste. Reduce every government expense to the point where it's income at least equals the payables.

We have done some direct contracts with the US government. However, our largest government contract in 2011 was with the federal government of Vietnam.

Sounds like a good place to start trimming the fat is foreign aid to Vietnam! They need to get their act together and stop relying on others to buy from you!

http://www.foreignassistance.gov/OU....ab_Bud _Spent

[Relentless]

Implement a small flat income tax and a national sales tax. Exclude basic staples like diapers, milk and heating oil from sales tax. Give everyone the same 'cost of living exemption' from income tax. No other loopholes or deductions. Revenue side of the equation solved.

Obama won't do it because he wants to protect entitled poor people. Romney won't do it because it would cost him money as an entitled wealthy person. Instead, either of them will continue abusing the middle class and barely rich. The solution is simple... Hard working people need to act as a voting block, whether they are working poor, middle class or are working barely rich people. The whole gimmick s dividing hard working people by race or class... When a hard working person earning 10M and a hard working person making 60K realize they are a natural team... Things will get done. Instead we have guys in unions making 200K siding with lazy dirtbags bleeding the system, and guys making 500K thinking they have something in common with guys sitting on 1B.

The solutions are simple and they start with losing the red and blue sweatshirts that wealthy people like Soros and the Koch brothers are giving everyone for 'free.' Overturning Citizens United is step one.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Implement a small flat income tax and a national sales tax. Exclude basic staples like diapers, milk and heating oil from sales tax. Give everyone the same 'cost of living exemption' from income tax. No other loopholes or deductions. Revenue side of the equation solved.

Obama won't do it because he wants to protect entitled poor people. Romney won't do it because it would cost him money as an entitled wealthy person. Instead, either of them will continue abusing the middle class and barely rich. The solution is simple... Hard working people need to act as a voting block, whether they are working poor, middle class or are working barely rich people. The whole gimmick s dividing hard working people by race or class... When a hard working person earning 10M and a hard working person making 60K realize they are a natural team... Things will get done. Instead we have guys in unions making 200K siding with lazy dirtbags bleeding the system, and guys making 500K thinking they have something in common with guys sitting on 1B.

The solutions are simple and they start with losing the red and blue sweatshirts that wealthy people like Soros and the Koch brothers are giving everyone for 'free.' Overturning Citizens United is step one.

Soros is a false equivalency, he had given 2 million towards the election twice as much as Bill maher. Now sheldon is willing to spent 100 million and the koch want to spend close to that amount. Also please give three example's where obama is protecting poor people. A FYI the most entitlements are received by white people in red states who vote republican.
Also unions make up about 7 percent of the work force in the us. Not the monster the gop wants to paint.

[Robbie]

US govt. spends 10.6 BILLION dollars per day.

If you TOOK all the money from everyone in the U.S. above $250,000 , that's 100% of anything everyone earns over $250,000 guess what? It would run the U.S. govt. for less than a month.

The SPENDING is the problem.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

US govt. spends 10.6 BILLION dollars per day.

If you TOOK all the money from everyone in the U.S. above $250,000 , that's 100% of anything everyone earns over $250,000 guess what? It would run the U.S. govt. for less than a month.

The SPENDING is the problem.

I am on my phone and the math is too complicated without sitting down and figuring it out and I would probably still get it wrong...

How does that compute when if right now you divided up the national debt to every taxpayer (not citizen) you are only at $150k per person to wipe it away?

I get that you are saying only take it from those making more than 250k and that is a much smaller % but it still doesn't seem right that way.

Not saying its not, haven't done the math.

[keysync]

The amount of people earning over 250k is like 3% of the population.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Robbie

US govt. spends 10.6 BILLION dollars per day.

If you TOOK all the money from everyone in the U.S. above $250,000 , that's 100% of anything everyone earns over $250,000 guess what? It would run the U.S. govt. for less than a month.

The SPENDING is the problem.

Nope spending with decreased rev is the problem. The first war without a war tax in a long time, in fact w cut taxes and fiscally responsible Paul Ryan voted right along with it. McCain said at the time it was stupid. Don't worry if Romney gets in no tax increase but kiss the mortgage deduction goodbye.

[PornoMonster]

Sure raise his rates... Then if I was him I would keep the 4 MILLION he gave away to charities!!!

The problem isn't the tax rate, it is the spending. Didn't someone say or do the math, that even if we took 100% of the top 1% people it wouldn't even make a dent in the debt????


Whoops yeah I was right, didn't read the entire thread I am on my phone!

[Socks]

All rich people have to do to lower their tax burden is to put their earnings to work, as they become expenses that fuel new growth.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Minte

Sounds like a great plan Mr.Obama.

Spread it around a bit. However, I am convinced if he is reelected he won't ask. He will just take it and waste it.

"Ask them to pay more". I HATE this. Don't ask them - they'll say "no". FUCKING TELL THEM party time is over.

Godfuckingdamn it they have been working the system for years. What have we got?

400 rich pricks have more than 1/2 the fucking country! http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...-more-wealth-/

They have nothing but time on their hands, so they work endlessly to rig the system EVEN MORE in their favor!

Those fucking Bush tax cuts were supposed to create jobs. WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE JOBS?

Taxes on the rich are at historic lows! http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...s-on-the-rich/ It hasn't helped anyone but them!

Don't fucking ASK them. Let them know the tax code MUST CHANGE.



Here is a BILLIONAIRE, explaining in plain language, why tax cuts for people like him won't help the economy. http://m.wsj.net/video/20120531/0601...nauer_320k.mp4

[epitome]

Originally Posted by keysync

The amount of people earning over 250k is like 3% of the population.

And the top 1% hold how much wealth?

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by epitome

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

A flat tax doesn't make sense at all.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by epitome

Yup, if he had taken all allowed deductions he would have come in a little over 10%. He didn't take all allowed deductions because he had previously said that he always pays around 13% or more or whatever. So he got himself there.

Of course he has also previously said that he would be disqualified to be president if he paid more in taxes than he has to, which is exactly what he is doing this year. So he's disqualified himself.

Thank you.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Socks

All rich people have to do to lower their tax burden is to put their earnings to work, as they become expenses that fuel new growth.

Right.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by tony286

There isnt as much waste as imagined. The wars are a very big part of debt and W kept it off the books and Obama put it on the books.

Right.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by tony286

Nope spending with decreased rev is the problem. .

How about just cut spending and bring our troops home and quit fighting wars everywhere when nobody has attacked us.

End the drug war. Stop pork barrel spending.

The govt. is spending 10.6 BILLION dollars per day. And borrowing almost 4 BILLION of that every damn day.

How can you justify such a thing?

We are not at war with anybody. Our country hasn't been invaded since the War of 1812. WE do the invading since then.

What is raising taxes on the wealthiest people by 4 or 5 % going to do? Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.

Not only that...but ALL of those wealthiest people (including Warren Hypocrite Buffet) make the majority of their money on Capital Gains. So sure...go ahead and raise the income tax rate. They still won't pay one thin dime more.

The whole premise is stupid and is designed for the Obama campaign to get a populist vote from people who just can't stand that somebody else has it better than them. It's class warfare plain and simple.

Cut the spending. How can anybody in this thread possibly justify 10.6 BILLION dollars a day in spending??? You can't. And none of you ever address it. You just stay on the Democrat talking points. And those against taxes stay on the Republican talking points. It's all deception.

The Feds are spending more money than I can even wrap my head around.

Isn't Romney supposed to be "filthy" rich? What's he worth..a couple hundred million dollars?
Well the Federal govt. is spending 6.85 million dollars PER MINUTE. Wrap your heads around that.

So in 29 minutes the federal govt. spends the same amount of Romney's entire wealth.

And Romney is the "filthy" rich one who didn't really "earn" his money? lol

NO! It's not rich people who are the problem. The feds are the filthiest and the richest.

When I was a little kid in the 60's and a teen in the 70's, my generation was taught to NEVER trust govt.
But it seems that the next generation just LOVES them some government. Sad.

I'd like some freedom
http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by epitome

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

you don't pay more. you pay a pittance while Mitt pays millions.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Minte

Sure Mitt can. How about those making over $250k but under $20m.

Seems funny you worry about guys making over $250k but not about people whom make $30-50k. That big building you were showing off a month or two back that you bought for your business to grow in.. How many of the people whom work for in that new building, make over $250k?

Now of course I don't know your business, but I'd be willing to wager a hunch that your average employee that works for your company, isn't making over $50k a year, much less $250k. These guys working for you are probably pretty hard workers or at the very least dependable and allow your corporation to function and compete on the world market.

Now these workers of yours, most likely pay a higher tax rate and live on much lower wage than these people you are so worried about. Are you honestly trying to say that people making 250k a year couldn't afford to pay the same tax percentage as your own workers?

The workers that make it possible for your company to produce it's products?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by epitome

That can be blamed on the tax system that has been in effect since... well forever. These days we argue over % not total contributions. This country would be a shit hole if everybody paid say $12k a year in taxes in matter how much they made. You don't want to live in a shit hole, do you? This country wouldn't be what it is today if it didn't have % based tax system.

true, so instead of hating on the people propping up your standard of living and demanding they pay even more for you, stop fucking around on the internet and get a job that will actually pay you money.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by epitome

And the top 1% hold how much wealth?

how ever much they earned.

go get a fucking job, scumbag.

[Tom_PM]

You dumbasses are missing out on all that free foodstamp money by making more than 1200 bucks a month. Suckers. You could be pocketing a cool 200 bucks a month if you just cut back your hours. Thats how you game the system, not with your fancy millionaire tax loopholes and offshore .. thingies. Once we put a stop to that.. we achieve... dead poor people.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by crockett

Seems funny you worry about guys making over $250k but not about people whom make $30-50k. That big building you were showing off a month or two back that you bought for your business to grow in.. How many of the people whom work for in that new building, make over $250k?

Now of course I don't know your business, but I'd be willing to wager a hunch that your average employee that works for your company, isn't making over $50k a year, much less $250k. These guys working for you are probably pretty hard workers or at the very least dependable and allow your corporation to function and compete on the world market.

Now these workers of yours, most likely pay a higher tax rate and live on much lower wage than these people you are so worried about. Are you honestly trying to say that people making 250k a year couldn't afford to pay the same tax percentage as your own workers?

The workers that make it possible for your company to produce it's products?

there's no need to pay you and your kind more money than you're worth just because you're too stupid to succeed.
the average HOUSEHOLD income in the US is $44k. If you had an ounce of intelligence you'd know that that number won't change by hurting the successful.
Its all you're worth kid.
get used to it

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by epitome

I don't consider someone making $250k a year wealthy. Not even $500k. That is where I differ with Obama.

Someone making $15 million a year is wealthy. I'd personally put "rich" in the 1-5 category.

Either way, the fact that I make a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of those people and pay more doesn't make sense.

Flat tax does that but will likely never happen.

Earning 250k$ a year in US you can drive brand new ferrari and do not do any serious damage to your life style. So yeah its pretty rich. I can not imagine how could anyone spend 500K/year, thats definitely wealthy/rich zone.