A question to Tube Site owners and those who provide content to them

[2MuchMark]

Last may in Miami, Some poor guy was pushing his tube site at a seminar called "How to make money with tube sites". The seminar was a disaster and the poor guy up front got blasted by several people in the audience. The argument that broke out was about copyright infringement and the apparent lack of some tube site owners to control it.

One of the things he was asking for was for everyone to upload videos of at least 10 minutes long or longer, saying that long videos get higher rankings, so more people see them, so they convert traffic better, etc.

To me this sounded like bullshit. Popular videos would be seen more often sure, but that only meant that ads for that video would be seen more too, so the tube site could make more money from the ads.

I see posts on GFY once in a while asking for videos, and a few tube site owners have tried to get us to provide them content too, of 10 minutes or more.

My question is this: Who says that 10 minutes is some kind of magic number? To me, if a porn consumer is watching a video for that long, he has plenty of time and interest to masturbate and get it over with long before he would ever click-through to any website providing that video.

So Tube site owners : If you ask for content, is your pitch to producers to ask for 10 minute + videos? If so, what is your justification? Any stats that you can show?

To content providers : If you provide legal content to tube sites, what is the return you are getting as far as clicks and sales? How are you tracking it and do longer videos really work better than short teasers?

[The Ghost]

Length = perceived quality


Double digit lengths would get more eyes on a scene provided it's hot. Then as long as there's a way for the surfer to track it back to the original source there are some buyers. There simply has to be with the amount of traffic the larger tubes have. On the flip side there's lots of full length scenes on tubes that surfers could care less about.


Rarely do porn consumers watch a clip from start to finish. They jump around. (outfit, certain action, cumshot). Longer clips denote quality and a better chance the surfers fantasy will be met. Also the longer length gets more eyes on the content when competing against other clips. The longer the clips, with continual updates the more "sticky" the surfers become to that tube site and use that as their source for finding new content.



This is all assuming the tube has the slightest interest in promoting the original source of the movie. Most just use the full length content to drive the traffic to other advertising sources and trickle a small amount of traffic, if any, back to the original site. Especially in this day where some tube sites are 3rd, 4th, 5th generation scrapers that just take what's on bigger sites with any consideration to the ad deals attached to that content. Also the ones that run directory style tube sites. Waters down the content and takes away it's impact. No matter how amazing the content is once it's original "wow" factor is gone the surfer moves on once they've seen it too many times. Except for the times where it matches their particular narrowed fetish perfectly.


Add in the amount of unregulated DVD content that's been whored out, and programs that are acting as middle men for production studios. Programs created without any knowledge about the content or care to protect it. No accountability for it and it's sad to see some of the A+ exclusive content that shows up on tubes and stays there for years because it's simply not looked after. I see this ALL THE TIME in the Shemale niche.


Because of that we don't allow our full scenes EVER on tubes. Anyone who has our full scenes they are stolen and will go after those sites every single time.

[dgraves]

If 10 minute teasers worked then Hollywood would have figured that out long ago. If they can sell a 2 hour movie with a 30 second trailer, then why can't porn sites sell a 15 minute video with a 30 second teaser?

The simple answer is most people in this biz have no clue what they're doing and they not only just follow the crowd, but they think if 1 is good then 2 is better and 10 is best!

It's no wonder thieves went crazy with our porn, they figured we were going to eventually give it all away anyway, they were just beating us to the punch.

[Pierre Djurberg]

I agree, Hollywood is selling 2 h movies with 30sec-2min clips so why not tubesites?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Pierre Djurberg

I agree, Hollywood is selling 2 h movies with 30sec-2min clips so why not tubesites?

Because tube sites have no fucking interest in selling porn memberships. They make money by selling traffic and ad clicks to brokers. Plus the odd cam and dating sale here and there.

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Because tube sites have no fucking interest in selling porn memberships. They make money by selling traffic and ad clicks to brokers. Plus the odd cam and dating sale here and there.

Yup


It's all about gaining traffic for ads. Tubes are trying to one-up each other to gain, and keep, as much traffic as possible. The long videos benefit the tube much more than the producers. With so much content unaccounted for makes it happen. And without any legal scares for broadcasting sex without documents or producers policing their content it will continue.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Because tube sites have no fucking interest in selling porn memberships. They make money by selling traffic and ad clicks to brokers. Plus the odd cam and dating sale here and there.

[Paul Markham]

There is no magic number, no magic method. There are only one magic join buttons.

10 seconds is long enough for a surfer to spot shit. Which is why the number of views is meaningless.

2 minutes is long enough for a guy to realise this scene is poor. Or the same as he has seen over and over and over again. Just with a different girl on a different sofa doing the same old shit.

10 minutes is long enough for the freeloader to get off and move on with his day. Or for a customer to think "This is fantastic and I have to see the HD version of lots of these."

As all we really have left to sell is the HD version. How many want to buy a HD version of mediocre porn?

Yes they may go pirate it.

Most stuff on Tubes isn't good enough to motivate an impulse or planned buy.

But I think I said this before once.

[tony286]

A very honest statement from manwin
http://nymag.com/news/features/70985/
"Manwin, in fact, has studied the question of optimal clip length. “We tested one minute, three minutes, five minutes,” Antoon says. “The best converting for the content owner is three minutes. The best for the tube sites—for the surfer to come back and back—is five minutes. So we always ask for three to five. We don’t mind if they send us seven to nine.” "

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Because tube sites have no fucking interest in selling porn memberships. They make money by selling traffic and ad clicks to brokers. Plus the odd cam and dating sale here and there.

Sing it from the mountaintops. It's hilarious how so many can't see it.

[SKUP]

Three minutes is more then enough. Takes a hell of a lot of time to get people to realize this. One day ;-)

[halfpint]

If you think about it why would tube sites want to send traffic to pay sites when I can buy content and make more money from selling advertising ?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by halfpint

If you think about it why would tube sites want to send traffic to pay sites when I can buy content and make more money from selling advertising ?

Now that the industry is in the dumps this is very true. In fact you don't need tobuy content while fools will give it to you so you can sell traffic.

The porn industry used to be rich enough that it wasn't so. Adept or die.

SKUO, it's not long enough to get traffic to sell the traffic.

[Penny24Seven]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is no magic number, no magic method. There are only one magic join buttons.

10 seconds is long enough for a surfer to spot shit. Which is why the number of views is meaningless.

2 minutes is long enough for a guy to realise this scene is poor. Or the same as he has seen over and over and over again. Just with a different girl on a different sofa doing the same old shit.

10 minutes is long enough for the freeloader to get off and move on with his day. Or for a customer to think "This is fantastic and I have to see the HD version of lots of these."

As all we really have left to sell is the HD version. How many want to buy a HD version of mediocre porn?

Yes they may go pirate it.

Most stuff on Tubes isn't good enough to motivate an impulse or planned buy.

But I think I said this before once.

Answer me this Paul, is your content in the top 5% of the best content around? I know you think it is because it is all you talk about, you also joke about when you were caught in a lie. Just because you can laugh at yourself makes it ok. What is your point with this post anyway?

[takehersleazy]

We tried longer clips with the tube sites and have not seen any difference in the conversions that we get. I think it's true that the buyer knows weather or not they plan on buying within the first couple of minutes.

[MarkDeus]

Originally Posted by **********

Last may in Miami, Some poor guy was pushing his tube site at a seminar called "How to make money with tube sites". The seminar was a disaster and the poor guy up front got blasted by several people in the audience. The argument that broke out was about copyright infringement and the apparent lack of some tube site owners to control it.

One of the things he was asking for was for everyone to upload videos of at least 10 minutes long or longer, saying that long videos get higher rankings, so more people see them, so they convert traffic better, etc.

To me this sounded like bullshit. Popular videos would be seen more often sure, but that only meant that ads for that video would be seen more too, so the tube site could make more money from the ads.

I see posts on GFY once in a while asking for videos, and a few tube site owners have tried to get us to provide them content too, of 10 minutes or more.

My question is this: Who says that 10 minutes is some kind of magic number? To me, if a porn consumer is watching a video for that long, he has plenty of time and interest to masturbate and get it over with long before he would ever click-through to any website providing that video.

So Tube site owners : If you ask for content, is your pitch to producers to ask for 10 minute + videos? If so, what is your justification? Any stats that you can show?

To content providers : If you provide legal content to tube sites, what is the return you are getting as far as clicks and sales? How are you tracking it and do longer videos really work better than short teasers?

The truth is that most small-time tubes are following by the book what's written in the documentation left by the bigger tubes. They have no choice but to adapt in order to stay competitive.
If that guy got blasted, maybe he should try to make his tubesite legal, and have a strong stance on piracy, end of story.

As for the 10 minutes, there is indeed, no magic number. What you need to understand is that the average porn-surfer knows his porn. Why would he click on a 3:00 clip when he can have access to a 23:54 clip with a money shot? after a while he will identify quickly your material, and start to ignore it, giving your brand a bad name.
The goal with long clips is to simulate that experience. However, most tube sites will negotiate they membership sales in order to obtain these lengths, and to make it lucrative for you.

Speaking of this, Please contact me if you want your clips online. I'd be happy to set something up with you. Yes, we convert, and no, we don't accept anonymous uploads. Pornerbros is 100% legal, and will always be.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Now that the industry is in the dumps this is very true. In fact you don't need tobuy content while fools will give it to you so you can sell traffic.

The porn industry used to be rich enough that it wasn't so. Adept or die.

SKUO, it's not long enough to get traffic to sell the traffic.

Maybe a few years back tube sites converted better with paysite clips, But if you look at some of the advertising paltforms now a single ad is selling for well over 1k and 2k a month on some of the bigger tubes, add the revenue from popups and pop unders and mobile redirects you can kinda see why tube site owners dont really care about sending joins to paysites. Infact tubes themselves are now becoming more like a paysite where they charge the users for premium memberships to unlock content which the non-paid user cant see, but even the non-paying users are still making tubes money from the ads and popups, so its a win win situation for them whether members pay or dont pay

The plain fact is tubes are not about pay sites anymore

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Brian837

Answer me this Paul, is your content in the top 5% of the best content around? I know you think it is because it is all you talk about, you also joke about when you were caught in a lie. Just because you can laugh at yourself makes it ok. What is your point with this post anyway?

No I simply sold my crap content for a lot more than all you wonderful guys can.

Maybe a few years back tube sites converted better with paysite clips, But if you look at some of the advertising paltforms now a single ad is selling for well over 1k and 2k a month on some of the bigger tubes, add the revenue from popups and pop unders and mobile redirects you can kinda see why tube site owners dont really care about sending joins to paysites. Infact tubes themselves are now becoming more like a paysite where they charge the users for premium memberships to unlock content which the non-paid user cant see, but even the non-paying users are still making tubes money from the ads and popups, so its a win win situation for them whether members pay or dont pay

The plain fact is tubes are not about pay sites anymore

Good reply.

Yes Tubes are becoming all that's left. Remember the days when 300 hits = a $30 sign up?

If a Tube can amass enough traffic, it can do well. And destroy the industry it relies on to get traffic.

It's about adapt or die. Except it's too late for most to adapt in porn. Where it will go is anyone's guess.

[dgraves]

In most cases, I've been submitting between 1-3 minute clips and they have been converting. I always do a pre and post interview with the girls so I add a lot of that in the teaser which seems to be working well. I ran some tests using TSS and found that I get the best results when I submit clips between 1-3 minutes long in wmv format.

I only show short parts of any scene/angle to prevent the surfer from being able to get into it too much but just enough to capture his attention.

The other day I was reading the comments on one of the clips I submitted and a guy said "This guy sucks at editing, he cut out all the good parts!".