Unemployment Rate Falls to 7.8% - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

Vendzilla · 10-11-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brujah

A lot of different electric vehicles being made, the price will come down as electric motors and battery solutions get more efficient and cheaper.
http://www.plugincars.com/cars

that's kinda scary too because of the carbon foot print the production of batteries is big

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...d-benefits.htm

Minte · 10-11-2012, 02:48 PM

The obvious problem with completely electric cars is range. And it's worse in cold weather. I looked at some electric cars before buying the Smart car and at a 24 mile one way drive to the office it was going to be iffy whether I could make it both ways in January in Wisconsin. If you live in a city with short commutes it's a great option.

Hydrogen power is the only real longterm solution. The most abundant element in the universe with zero emissions.

Brujah · 10-11-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

that's kinda scary too because of the carbon foot print the production of batteries is big

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...d-benefits.htm

Let's assume it's all true, and it's really scary! What would you do? Regulate the free market to stop the production of electric cars, so that they aren't doing it anymore? Have Government get involved in the private industries to make them stop this scary stuff right away?

Rochard · 10-11-2012, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

How about lets invest in an electric car that sells for $20k that regular people can afford, instead of a car that 2% of the population can afford.
That idea worked pretty good for Henry Ford.

So you think that we can just magically create a battery operated car for the masses with zero investment and then sell them for $20k a pop? Um, that's what we are selling cars for now using technology we've had for the past one hundred years...

And don't give me no shit about a teen who build a battery operated car. Anyone can build a stripped down battery operated car. But to build a real car with all of the safety gear that will last 100k miles is another story.

Rochard · 10-11-2012, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

that's kinda scary too because of the carbon foot print the production of batteries is big

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sci...d-benefits.htm

So according to you we shouldn't be investing in battery operated cars, hyrbrids are bad, batteries have a big carbon foot print, but your bitching about us not drilling enough oil?

Seriously?

Dvae · 10-11-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So according to you we shouldn't be investing in battery operated cars, hyrbrids are bad, batteries have a big carbon foot print, but your bitching about us not drilling enough oil?

Seriously Rochard?

Seriously Rochard?
We, do I get a choice in this matter? Do I get to say if my tax dollars are spent on a pipe dream?
When is enough, enough?

The following headlines demonstrate the irresponsibility of politicians like Obama who could care less how much money gets spent, what the hell, its not his money, why should he care?

Michigan Taxpayers Writing Check to Second Electric Car Battery Maker for $100 Million
Cost to Revive Economy With Battery Plant Subsidies: $5 Trillion
Video Shows President Obama, Top Politicians Praising Failed Green Company
Subsidized Green Energy Company Struggles, Lays Off Workers — Rewards Top Executives
Green Eyeshadow On Red Ink: 'Green' Jobs Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
Rosy Solar Jobs Projections Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Trash Collectors Equal 'Green'-Jobs? President's Campaign Ad ClaimsGreen Energy' Job Growth From Criticized Study
Sun Not Shining on State Solar Subsidies

tony286 · 10-11-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

Seriously Rochard?
We, do I get a choice in this matter? Do I get to say if my tax dollars are spent on a pipe dream?
When is enough, enough?

The following headlines demonstrate the irresponsibility of politicians like Obama who could care less how much money gets spent, what the hell, its not his money, why should he care?

Michigan Taxpayers Writing Check to Second Electric Car Battery Maker for $100 Million
Cost to Revive Economy With Battery Plant Subsidies: $5 Trillion
Video Shows President Obama, Top Politicians Praising Failed Green Company
Subsidized Green Energy Company Struggles, Lays Off Workers — Rewards Top Executives
Green Eyeshadow On Red Ink: 'Green' Jobs Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
Rosy Solar Jobs Projections Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Trash Collectors Equal 'Green'-Jobs? President's Campaign Ad ClaimsGreen Energy' Job Growth From Criticized Study
Sun Not Shining on State Solar Subsidies

5 trillion? You really that seriously. I wonder if u feel the same way about those gov dollars that help create the Internet and the hi speed net infrastructure ?

Dvae · 10-11-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

5 trillion? You really that seriouly. I wonder if u feel the same way about those gov dollars that help create the Internet and the hi speed net infrastructure ?

We spent money to create the Internet? I thought Al Gore took care of that.

Rochard · 10-11-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

Seriously Rochard?
We, do I get a choice in this matter? Do I get to say if my tax dollars are spent on a pipe dream?
When is enough, enough?

The following headlines demonstrate the irresponsibility of politicians like Obama who could care less how much money gets spent, what the hell, its not his money, why should he care?

Michigan Taxpayers Writing Check to Second Electric Car Battery Maker for $100 Million
Cost to Revive Economy With Battery Plant Subsidies: $5 Trillion
Video Shows President Obama, Top Politicians Praising Failed Green Company
Subsidized Green Energy Company Struggles, Lays Off Workers — Rewards Top Executives
Green Eyeshadow On Red Ink: 'Green' Jobs Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle
Rosy Solar Jobs Projections Fail To Live Up To the Hype
Trash Collectors Equal 'Green'-Jobs? President's Campaign Ad ClaimsGreen Energy' Job Growth From Criticized Study
Sun Not Shining on State Solar Subsidies

Your right. Clearly we shouldn't invest any money new technology at all. Instead, let's continue to drill for oil, suck out our natural resources, and in the mean time we'll just allow the Middle East to bitch smack us around. Our entire defense policy for the nation is based on our supply of oil - how is that been working out for us?

Gas in some parts of California is now more than $5 a gallon. It costs me $100 to fill up a tank. Isn't that a bit much?

Nah. Let's just keep drilling.

tony286 · 10-11-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

We spent money to create the Internet? I thought Al Gore took care of that.

Yep without gov funding it wouldn't of happened

Vendzilla · 10-11-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So according to you we shouldn't be investing in battery operated cars, hyrbrids are bad, batteries have a big carbon foot print, but your bitching about us not drilling enough oil?

Seriously?

I did? I said we are doing it wrong, why should the taxpayers fund a car they will never be able to afford? Battery power is low tech, you do realize that submarines during WWII were battery powered right?
I am bitching about not drilling enough, we have more oil than any other place on earth, yet we send our money to other countries, why?

Dependency of foreign oil was 10% in 1970, it was 65% in 2004 and is starting to drop, not because of policy, because of recession. it's around 50% now. Jimmy Carter started the DOE to help keep that number down, didn't work very well

Dvae · 10-11-2012, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Your right. Clearly we shouldn't invest any money new technology at all. Instead, let's continue to drill for oil, suck out our natural resources, and in the mean time we'll just allow the Middle East to bitch smack us around. Our entire defense policy for the nation is based on our supply of oil - how is that been working out for us?

Gas in some parts of California is now more than $5 a gallon. It costs me $100 to fill up a tank. Isn't that a bit much?

Nah. Let's just keep drilling.

You're complaining about $5 dollars a gallon?
Wait 'til the collapse of the PetroDollar which could happen within the next year very easily, you'll be looking at probably double that. We have our own oil we don't need to be buying it from other countries.

And I have no problem investing in alternative energy sources but let's let private industry do it.

tony286 · 10-11-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

You're complaining about $5 dollars a gallon?
Wait 'til the collapse of the PetroDollar which could happen within the next year very easily, you'll be looking at probably double that. We have our own oil we don't need to be buying it from other countries.

And I have no problem investing in alternative energy sources but let's let private industry do it.

Private industry won't.

Rochard · 10-11-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I did? I said we are doing it wrong, why should the taxpayers fund a car they will never be able to afford? Battery power is low tech, you do realize that submarines during WWII were battery powered right?
I am bitching about not drilling enough, we have more oil than any other place on earth, yet we send our money to other countries, why?

Dependency of foreign oil was 10% in 1970, it was 65% in 2004 and is starting to drop, not because of policy, because of recession. it's around 50% now. Jimmy Carter started the DOE to help keep that number down, didn't work very well

If battery powered cars is so easy, why don't we all have one? Why isn't the private sector making them? They should sell like fucking pancakes.

And if we importing 65% of our oil in 2004 and now we are only importing 50%, we are moving in the right direction. We are issuing more permits, drilling more, and our dependency on foreign oil is less.... That's idea.

Dvae · 10-11-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Private industry won't.

If it's economically feasible and there's a market for it they will.

Rochard · 10-11-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

You're complaining about $5 dollars a gallon?

I like it when gas goes up. The higher the cost of gas, the less people drive, so the less traffic I have to worry about. On top of that, it's the dumb losers who can't afford the gas that takes the worst drivers off the road.

I work from home so I'm good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

And I have no problem investing in alternative energy sources but let's let private industry do it.

But that's just it - We've had the technology for years now. Vendzilla is kind enough to remind us that submarines have been using battery power since WWII. But private industry isn't doing it.

We need to push the issue. Better for the environment, better for national security, more cost effective.

Private industry isn't doing it.

Vendzilla · 10-11-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So you think that we can just magically create a battery operated car for the masses with zero investment and then sell them for $20k a pop? Um, that's what we are selling cars for now using technology we've had for the past one hundred years...

And don't give me no shit about a teen who build a battery operated car. Anyone can build a stripped down battery operated car. But to build a real car with all of the safety gear that will last 100k miles is another story.

list of electric cars
http://www.itiselectric.com/ Canada did it for 19k

http://www.codaautomotive.com/ for 30k after tax breaks

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com these are pretty cool

http://www.commutercars.com/ and this company is hoping to get the price down to $10k per unit

tony286 · 10-11-2012, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvae

If it's economically feasible and there's a market for it they will.

Once again there would of been no net with out gov funding. There was no market for it when the gov was putting dollars in.

Vendzilla · 10-11-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If battery powered cars is so easy, why don't we all have one? Why isn't the private sector making them? They should sell like fucking pancakes.

The private sector is making them

Quote:

And if we importing 65% of our oil in 2004 and now we are only importing 50%, we are moving in the right direction. We are issuing more permits, drilling more, and our dependency on foreign oil is less.... That's idea.

No, we are not, the recession has caused a drop in demand

Robbie · 10-11-2012, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I like it when gas goes up. The higher the cost of gas, the less people drive, so the less traffic I have to worry about.

Problem is that it drives up the cost of EVERYTHING. Including food.

Everything that has to be transported from point A to point B. Which hurts the poor and people barely getting by the most.

It's not all just about you and I getting in our car and driving. It's about food, clothing, building supplies, household staples, etc.
Basically driving up the cost of everything our society uses and helping to destroy our economy.

PornoMonster · 10-11-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Your right. Clearly we shouldn't invest any money new technology at all. Instead, let's continue to drill for oil, suck out our natural resources, and in the mean time we'll just allow the Middle East to bitch smack us around. Our entire defense policy for the nation is based on our supply of oil - how is that been working out for us?

Gas in some parts of California is now more than $5 a gallon. It costs me $100 to fill up a tank. Isn't that a bit much?

Nah. Let's just keep drilling.

It isn't like they haven't invented the hybrid, go buy one! ($40 to fill up once or every other week!)

PornoMonster · 10-11-2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Problem is that it drives up the cost of EVERYTHING. Including food.

Everything that has to be transported from point A to point B. Which hurts the poor and people barely getting by the most.

It's not all just about you and I getting in our car and driving. It's about food, clothing, building supplies, household staples, etc.
Basically driving up the cost of everything our society uses and helping to destroy our economy.

Yep, and guess what, Jobs are going to start to be cut. Foreclosures are at an all time low right now, not in a few months (if gas stays this high), either pay the mortgage or buy food and drive to work!

Brujah · 10-11-2012, 09:02 PM

The solution is simple. This is why Government needs to step in and regulate the free market sector, and put a stop to this electric car stuff like Vendzilla said. It's SCARY!

bhutocracy · 10-11-2012, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Did you know about the 3.5 billion barrels of oil they found in North Dakota?

A couple of things:

1. It's expensive to produce so it'll never bring gas prices down that much.
2. It will be sold to the highest bidder, not neccecssarily America.
3. The resource is large but the aperture is small - production will be low and slow compared to a large conventional structure.
4. Even with the bakken America will still have to import oil.
5. It's being developed about as fast as possible (although the GFC slowed things down)
6. It could be more, it could be less, we're not talking proved reserves here.*

Basically, it's being developed pretty quickly and it will be a very important energy source but it isn't any kind of magic bullet and the higher the price of oil the faster it will be developed further embedding the economic stasis the price of gas will likely continue to be in.

*This isn't a big deal it's just that most people don't understand how prospective oil is measured. Until it's "proved" it's given a statistical chance of being there. There might be a lot more, there might be a lot less. I say this mainly as another poster thought companies could see the oil under the gound! You only ever get hints based on geological shapes and DHI's. The Bakken is a little different though being a shale (basically they tend to be HC bearing throughout it's extent), and the unproved numbers are now actually much higher than 3.5B.

KillerK · 10-11-2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Yep, and guess what, Jobs are going to start to be cut. Foreclosures are at an all time low right now, not in a few months (if gas stays this high), either pay the mortgage or buy food and drive to work!

Foreclosures are at a low because of Obama, he won't let the banks do it. You watch what happens after the election. Bookmark my post and call me out if there aren't a shit-ton of more foreclosures.

Personally I know of 5 people who haven't paid on their mortgage for the last year. I also know of 3 people who do home flips, and also research on my own real estate and the inventory is so low right now its sick.

mromro · 10-11-2012, 11:30 PM

Biden is laughing , ARE YOU!?

Paul Markham · 10-12-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Problem is that it drives up the cost of EVERYTHING. Including food.

Everything that has to be transported from point A to point B. Which hurts the poor and people barely getting by the most.

It's not all just about you and I getting in our car and driving. It's about food, clothing, building supplies, household staples, etc.
Basically driving up the cost of everything our society uses and helping to destroy our economy.

The fix for the Western economies will cost you more. Maybe in food prices, less income and higher taxes.

The constant theme I see from these posts is.

LET SOMEONE ELSE SUFFER.

Imported oil is cheap at the pump. Imported goods are cheap at the point of sale. Outsourced labour is cheaper than home based labour.

Investing in future technologies will cost money, some will work some will not.

Keeping people working in the US will cost money.

No one tells the voters the truth. Until the pain is being inflicted. In fact some bring up red herrings.

The Right's target is those who sponge off the system and they should be made to work. It will cut Government spending by such a tiny amount it wont amount to taxing the rich proportionately as others pay.

Things like this make my blood boil.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-dont-job.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...taxpayers.html

Yet let's get it into perspective. http://www.crimestoppers-uk.org/frau.../benefit-fraud

Quote:

Benefit fraud is estimated to cost the UK £1.5 billion a year according to figures published in the National Fraud Indicator 2011 by the National Fraud Authority.

$2.25 even if you multiply it by 10. It's still peanuts against the size of the problem and even though it should be stopped. It won't rescue the system. And the only way to stop it is to employ more people to administer the system. My solution would be to get those genuinely claiming to work at reporting those cheating or working in the offices checking paperwork.

I tried to search for the US figures, didn't find anything. That is shameful and needs to be changed. But don't expect it to make and difference to your lives. Can someone here talking about it tell us please.

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerK

Foreclosures are at a low because of Obama

That kind of happens, they ran out of people that can't afford their homes

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

A couple of things:

1. It's expensive to produce so it'll never bring gas prices down that much.
2. It will be sold to the highest bidder, not neccecssarily America.
3. The resource is large but the aperture is small - production will be low and slow compared to a large conventional structure.
4. Even with the bakken America will still have to import oil.
5. It's being developed about as fast as possible (although the GFC slowed things down)
6. It could be more, it could be less, we're not talking proved reserves here.*

Basically, it's being developed pretty quickly and it will be a very important energy source but it isn't any kind of magic bullet and the higher the price of oil the faster it will be developed further embedding the economic stasis the price of gas will likely continue to be in.

*This isn't a big deal it's just that most people don't understand how prospective oil is measured. Until it's "proved" it's given a statistical chance of being there. There might be a lot more, there might be a lot less. I say this mainly as another poster thought companies could see the oil under the gound! You only ever get hints based on geological shapes and DHI's. The Bakken is a little different though being a shale (basically they tend to be HC bearing throughout it's extent), and the unproved numbers are now actually much higher than 3.5B.

Still a lot of oil, Don't know why they don't drill in anwr, have you seen pictures of the place?

PornoMonster · 10-12-2012, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerK

Foreclosures are at a low because of Obama, he won't let the banks do it. You watch what happens after the election. Bookmark my post and call me out if there aren't a shit-ton of more foreclosures.

Personally I know of 5 people who haven't paid on their mortgage for the last year. I also know of 3 people who do home flips, and also research on my own real estate and the inventory is so low right now its sick.

Oh, I bet you are right. I don't know all the reasons they are down right now, but I know several people who have not paid in 8+ months, and it is like nothing fast is going to happen to them.

tony286 · 10-12-2012, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

The obvious problem with completely electric cars is range. And it's worse in cold weather. I looked at some electric cars before buying the Smart car and at a 24 mile one way drive to the office it was going to be iffy whether I could make it both ways in January in Wisconsin. If you live in a city with short commutes it's a great option.

Hydrogen power is the only real longterm solution. The most abundant element in the universe with zero emissions.

Hydrogen was quietly killed. When I worked for mbenz in the late 80's they had one. Its like why couldnt they design a solar panel into the roof of a electric car so the battery is constantly charged if there is daylight and runs on stored energy when there isnt.

tony286 · 10-12-2012, 04:55 AM

Vend do you know our biggest export is gas? Oil they pull out of the ground doesnt stay here? Oil is the free market at its best, it goes to the highest bidder.

Paul Markham · 10-12-2012, 06:03 AM

Quote:

The world's cheapest oil to extract comes from Saudi Arabia and costs $2 a barrel. But that oil, over 8 million barrels a day, is pumped mostly by the Saudi national oil company and is largely off-limits to Western oil firms.

For Western firms, it can cost as little as $5 to $7 a barrel to pump the most easily accessible oil from places like Venezuela or Azerbaijan, said Fadel Gheit, a senior energy analyst at Oppenheimer.

The costs don't stop there. On top of the $5-$7 production costs, there's also the the money it took to build the pumping facility. At several billion dollars a pop, capital costs typically add another $5 to $7 a barrel.

And that's the cost of producing oil in the cheapest regions of the world. Factor in expensive fields like the deep water Gulf of Mexico, the tar sands of Canada or water-laden output of Texas, and the average production and capital cost is somewhere in the low teens to mid $20s, said Gheit.

Still not bad, considering the selling price.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...rage-11-barrel

Quote:

July 28 (Reuters) - The cost of pumping a barrel of oil out
of the ground depends on a variety of factors, including the
size and accesibility of the field.
Oil companies are often reluctant to give precise cost
information.
The following provides estimates of the cost of running a
field for OPEC members and other individual countries, obtained
from traders and industry analysts.
It also gives the International Energy Agency's more general
assessment of costs for the oil-producing regions of the world.

ESTIMATES BY COUNTRY
Saudi Arabian crude is the cheapest in the world to extract
because of its location near the surface of the desert and the
size of the fields, which allow economies of scale.
The operating cost (stripping out capital expenditure) of
extracting a barrel in Saudi Arabia has been estimated to be
around $1-$2, and the total cost (including capital expenditure)
$4-$6 a barrel.

Extraction of Iraqi oil is in theory also very cheap,
although there are political and security challenges.
Industry analysts estimated total costs at between $4-6,
although they said some fields could be more expensive.

In the United Arab Emirates, operating and capital costs
combined were estimated to be around $7 a barrel.

Oil extraction from mature and deep water offshore fields is
much more expensive than from the accessible hydrocarbon
territory of the Gulf.
In Nigeria, production in ultra-deep water fields can reach
$30 a barrel compared with onshore costs of around $15,
according to analysts.
In offshore Angola, it costs around $40 to produce one
barrel of oil (operating and capital costs), traders told
Reuters.

Operating and capital costs in Algeria, Iran, Libya, Oman
and Qatar were all estimated to be around $10-15 a barrel.

In Kazakhstan, where reserves are big and largely
unexploited, the cost to produce a barrel for medium-sized
producers, such as Kazakh state oil company KazMunaiGas [KMG.UL]
is around $15-18, and for Kazakhstan's largest operator
Tengizchevroil, it is about $10-12, the Kazakh-British Chamber
of Commerce said.
Analysts said these were operating costs, probably including
transport, as it is expensive to move the oil to distant ports.

In Venezuela, where fields tend to be mature and small and
it is difficult to make new discoveries, production costs were
generally estimated at $20 a barrel (operating and capital
costs).
Those figures do not include the more expensive Orinoco oil
from the country's sand deposits.
One analyst said the extraction of one barrel of Orinoco was
around $30 (operating and capital costs).

Ecuador, where fields are also small and the distance to
ports add to costs, analysts pegged extraction costs at $20 a
barrel.

In the mature British North Sea, where the remaining oil is
difficult to access, the industry body Oil & Gas UK said the
break-even cost was around $50 a barrel. One analyst said
operating and capital costs were $30-40 a barrel.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) -- in its latest
November 2008 world energy outlook -- gave the following
estimates for the all-in costs of producing oil from various
types of hydrocarbons in different parts of the world:

Oilfields Estimated Production
/source Costs ($ 2008)
Mideast/N.Africa oilfields 6 - 28
Other conventional oilfields 6 - 39
CO2 enhanced oil recovery 30 - 80
Deep/ultra-deep-water oilfields 32 - 65
Enhanced oil recovery 32 - 82
Arctic oilfields 32 - 100
Heavy oil/bitumen 32 - 68
Oil shales 52 - 113
Gas to liquids 38 - 113
Coal to liquids 60 - 113

Source: International Energy Agency World Energy Outlook 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...12407420090728

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sha...n_price_of_oil

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil...-Reserves.html

bhutocracy · 10-12-2012, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Still a lot of oil, Don't know why they don't drill in anwr, have you seen pictures of the place?

They will, eventually. Not that it - once again - will have a drastic impact on prices at the pump.
Anyways a bit of money to be made on emerging shale and tight gas plays in other countries as they try and play catch up and prove up their own "bakkens".

Rochard · 10-12-2012, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

list of electric cars
http://www.itiselectric.com/ Canada did it for 19k

http://www.commutercars.com/ and this company is hoping to get the price down to $10k per unit

These are not cars. They are clown cars. In order for these to sell they'll have to have mass appeal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

http://www.codaautomotive.com/ for 30k after tax breaks

Why is it I've never heard of these?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com these are pretty cool

This is a motorcycle, not a car.

In order for this to work you have to make a real car (not a clown car) that will have mass appeal. The only one on your list that comes close is Coda Automotive, and it seems they too are having huge problems bringing them to market. You bitched about Tesla who has over one thousand cars on the road and is bringing their second model line into production, and in the mean time Coda doesn't seem to have any cars on the road. At the very same time, the car retails for $37k and looks like a cheap compact car.

I mean seriously, compare the two:

Again, private industry isn't making it happen. We need these now, not ten years from now. In case you haven't noticed - And Brett, you should know this more than most because of your time in the Navy - a lot of the technology we have comes from the government, be it NASA, the military, or otherwise. We might as well invest directly into it.

But really, you need to stop bitching here. Permits for oil drilling are up, production is up, and dependency on foreign oil is down. In the mean time, the US government needs to invest into this technology.

You don't think Romney is going to do the same? That's all he's done his entire business history - borrow money to invest into other companies.

Rochard · 10-12-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

It isn't like they haven't invented the hybrid, go buy one! ($40 to fill up once or every other week!)

I don't need a hybrid or even an electric car. I work from home and don't drive much. I can live with $5 a gallon. And I can afford it. Generally speaking I usually don't pay much attention to how much I spend at the pump.

But a hybrid is only part of the problem. We should be producing full on battery powered cars by now. It's stunning that we aren't.

Rochard · 10-12-2012, 09:24 AM

Keep in mind also that Romney was against bailing out the auto industry.... Brilliant.

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Vend do you know our biggest export is gas? Oil they pull out of the ground doesnt stay here? Oil is the free market at its best, it goes to the highest bidder.

Yeah, I know, we have a lot of gas

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

They will, eventually. Not that it - once again - will have a drastic impact on prices at the pump.
Anyways a bit of money to be made on emerging shale and tight gas plays in other countries as they try and play catch up and prove up their own "bakkens".

The thing is our dependence on foreign oil was only 10%, cars got more efficient and now it's 50%? In the 80's we had VW Diesels that got 50mpg, am I suppose to get excited when I hear about a hybrid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

These are not cars. They are clown cars. In order for these to sell they'll have to have mass appeal.

LOL, that's what I have been trying to tell you, the Tesla Model S starts at $50k, how is that going to sell to the masses?

Quote:

But really, you need to stop bitching here. Permits for oil drilling are up, production is up, and dependency on foreign oil is down. In the mean time, the US government needs to invest into this technology.

You don't think Romney is going to do the same? That's all he's done his entire business history - borrow money to invest into other companies.

Permits are down http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...t/table-01.pdf

During the last three fiscal years totally under Bush, there were 9,661 "new leases" granted for federal lands. For the three most recent fiscal years (which includes a few months of Bush's administration), there were 5,568 such new leases. This works out to a 42.4% decrease.
Take the same comparable periods for drilling permits on federal lands. There were 20,479 for the last three years under Bush, then 12,821 for the most recent three including much of Obama's first term. This is a 37.4% decrease.

as for investing, it needs to invest for the good of the nation, not make cars very few can afford

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Keep in mind also that Romney was against bailing out the auto industry.... Brilliant.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/10...s-false/190586

No he didn't

He wanted to wait till they went bankrupt then bail them out, instead he wanted to use the money to invest in research.

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Its like why couldnt they design a solar panel into the roof of a electric car so the battery is constantly charged if there is daylight and runs on stored energy when there isnt.

I actually did that to a trailer I had to charge the battery for a winch. There is a car out there that has one, it runs the AC when it's hot out.

Robbie · 10-12-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Keep in mind also that Romney was against bailing out the auto industry.... Brilliant.

Romney called for a structured bankruptcy for them. Which is what ended up happening anyway.

Doesn't mean a company goes out of business. It just means that exactly what happened anyway would have happened MINUS the huge amounts of govt. money.

Also, last night I was watching CNN's after debate coverage.
Anderson Cooper was doing the "fact checking".

We've heard from the Obama campaign over and over that Romney said: "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt".
I always thought that was a pretty shitty way for him to say it...insensitive to people who might lose their jobs.

Well, it turns out that Romney NEVER said those words!

He wrote an Op-Ed piece for the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/op...mney.html?_r=0

If you read the actual article he talks about the car companies having to restructure (which is what Obama forced them to do anyway).
He talks about the govt. needing to invest in research for new energy, fuel economy, etc..

The actual TITLE of the Op Ed is: "LET DETROIT GO BANKRUPT"
But it turns out that is the title that was given to the piece by the editor of the New York Times. NOT Mitt Romney!

But the way the media reported it led me (and millions of other people) to believe that Mitt Romney had said that!

EDIT: Also notice that he wrote that on Nov. 18, 2008 while BUSH was still president and before Obama took office and did what he did. So Romney wasn't aiming at Obama, but at the entire idea of the Federal govt. declaring some companies too big to "fail". Of course...if GM had went through a restructuring when he was writing that piece instead of waiting several more months to do it AND spending tons of govt. money...it would have saved taxpayers a lot of money and kept the Feds out of Detroits affairs.

Remember..."Bankrupt" doesn't mean what we might think it means. When I hear the word "bankrupt" I think "shut down". But in legal terms it just means a way to restructure, get creditors off your back, and stay in business. Which is exactly what they did in the end.

Brujah · 10-12-2012, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Romney called for a structured bankruptcy for them. Which is what ended up happening anyway.

Fact checking Robbie's usual pro-Romney post.
http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...154006392.html

HelmutKohl · 10-12-2012, 11:46 AM

Unemployment is goig down, it is a fact. Why Repubs. always follow: "the worse for the county the better for us" How patriotic.

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelmutKohl

Unemployment is goig down, it is a fact. Why Repubs. always follow: "the worse for the county the better for us" How patriotic.

Damn you're thick! Unemployment isn't going down, people are falling off the other end.

And where did you hear "the worse for the county the better for us?" Liberal news channel, not from them.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 10-12-2012, 01:16 PM

ADG

Vendzilla · 10-12-2012, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

ADG

tony286 · 10-12-2012, 02:20 PM

I changed my mind its not worth it

Brujah · 10-12-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

I changed my mind its not worth it

lol

Rochard · 10-12-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/10...s-false/190586

No he didn't

He wanted to wait till they went bankrupt then bail them out, instead he wanted to use the money to invest in research.

Listen to me very carefully... He was against the GM bailout.

Here is exactly what he wrote:

IF General Motors, Ford and Chrysler get the bailout that their chief executives asked for yesterday, you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won?t go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed.

Here's the full article that Mitt himself wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/op...mney.html?_r=3

And that's what we'll get with Mitt. That's what he does, his entire business history - Wait until the shit hits the fan, buy it cheap, and then pray he can fix it. He made bank doing it too, never mind the people that lost jobs or companies that no longer exist because of Romney.

On top of that, look at GM now. I just read this morning that GM had their most profitable year ever in 2011? And they paid all of the loan back? (Okay, most of the loan and some stock, which means the government make money here.)

Your on the wrong side of this. Your telling us we need to drill more, not invest in electric cars, and now your telling us we should have let one of the largest employers in the US go bankrupt before taking action. That's brilliant right there.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 10-12-2012, 03:07 PM

Unemployment is not working...

ADG

10-11-2012, 09:02 PM	#223
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	The solution is simple. This is why Government needs to step in and regulate the free market sector, and put a stop to this electric car stuff like Vendzilla said. It's SCARY! __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

10-12-2012, 09:24 AM	#237
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,852	Keep in mind also that Romney was against bailing out the auto industry.... Brilliant. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-12-2012, 01:16 PM	#245
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

10-12-2012, 03:07 PM	#250
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Unemployment is not working... ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

10-11-2012, 02:48 PM	#202
Minte Babemeister Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Madison Posts: 7,081	The obvious problem with completely electric cars is range. And it's worse in cold weather. I looked at some electric cars before buying the Smart car and at a 24 mile one way drive to the office it was going to be iffy whether I could make it both ways in January in Wisconsin. If you live in a city with short commutes it's a great option. Hydrogen power is the only real longterm solution. The most abundant element in the universe with zero emissions.

10-11-2012, 11:30 PM	#226
mromro So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 770	Biden is laughing , ARE YOU!?

10-12-2012, 04:55 AM	#232
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Vend do you know our biggest export is gas? Oil they pull out of the ground doesnt stay here? Oil is the free market at its best, it goes to the highest bidder.

10-12-2012, 11:46 AM	#243
HelmutKohl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 378	Unemployment is goig down, it is a fact. Why Repubs. always follow: "the worse for the county the better for us" How patriotic.

10-12-2012, 02:20 PM	#247
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I changed my mind its not worth it