Not starting new mainstream company - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

potter · 11-08-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

How much is health and work comp insurance going up next year? I just got off the phone with Sentry Insurance who has our business so I know the answer.

You will be surprised at the answer I have.

I don't need to know the answer. You can't complain about health care costs, because you're the one choosing to pay for them. If you think your insurance is too expensive, then shop around and find something that fits what you want to spend. There is a free market out there you know.

And are you covering your employee's insurance? Why not drop that? If you're covering 100%, only cover 90% and make them pay the other 10%. Don't cover it at all (legally you only have to provide them access to a group plan, not pay for it).

I shouldn't have to tell you how to run your business. If you think insurance is too much of an expense, then you have plenty of ways of minimizing it as an expense.

Minte · 11-08-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

I don't need to know the answer. You can't complain about health care costs, because you're the one choosing to pay for them. If you think your insurance is too expensive, then shop around and find something that fits what you want to spend. There is a free market out there you know.

And are you covering your employee's insurance? Why not drop that? If you're covering 100%, only cover 90% and make them pay the other 10%. Don't cover it at all (legally you only have to provide them access to a group plan, not pay for it).

I shouldn't have to tell you how to run your business. If you think insurance is too much of an expense, then you have plenty of ways of minimizing it as an expense.

Your not telling me how to run my business. You are working hard at not answering the question.

Workcomp - Our mod rate dropped 3/10ths of a point. Our sales and payroll have gone up. The actual cost of workcomp will go up about 18%.

Healthcare - No one can answer that. I was told, at least 14%.but it could be twice that. It went up 11% this year when we renewed. Playing hardball with the people(direct labor) that make the money for our company is the perfect way to demoralize the workforce. Companies can either spend the money on decent benefits or be a revolving door for employees. Then they end up spending that money on constant training.

And I am not complaining about anything.

pornguy · 11-08-2012, 01:29 PM

Do you guys actually read the tax codes and use the write offs they give you?

pornguy · 11-08-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Your not telling me how to run my business. You are working hard at not answering the question.

Workcomp - Our mod rate dropped 3/10ths of a point. Our sales and payroll have gone up. The actual cost of workcomp will go up about 18%.

Healthcare - No one can answer that. I was told, at least 14%.but it could be twice that. It went up 11% this year when we renewed. Playing hardball with the people(direct labor) that make the money for our company is the perfect way to demoralize the workforce. Companies can either spend the money on decent benefits or be a revolving door for employees. Then they end up spending that money on constant training.

And I am not complaining about anything.

Hey Minte. I dont know how many people you have, but have you thought about doing a Self insured thing? Not sure if a company like yours can do that but I know a LOT of law enforcement agencies are now doing it.

Minte · 11-08-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

Hey Minte. I dont know how many people you have, but have you thought about doing a Self insured thing? Not sure if a company like yours can do that but I know a LOT of law enforcement agencies are now doing it.

Every year we look at it, but it's tough for a small company. The insurance companies have raised the rates on major medical so much that it doesn't make much sense if you don't have a lot of cash available to let idle.

pornguy · 11-08-2012, 01:39 PM

I was talking with a guy from one of the Police Departments about it. They worked out a deal with a local hospital, local doctors and then the employees. Worked well for them and saved them a shit ton of cash. Also started pushing the employees about weight issues and things along those lines.

I understand you dont have the time to baby sit but sometimes its worth doing it.

Got a contact I can use,. Want to ask a question about the things you make.

potter · 11-08-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Your not telling me how to run my business. You are working hard at not answering the question.

Workcomp - Our mod rate dropped 3/10ths of a point. Our sales and payroll have gone up. The actual cost of workcomp will go up about 18%.

Healthcare - No one can answer that. I was told, at least 14%.but it could be twice that. It went up 11% this year when we renewed. Playing hardball with the people(direct labor) that make the money for our company is the perfect way to demoralize the workforce. Companies can either spend the money on decent benefits or be a revolving door for employees. Then they end up spending that money on constant training.

And I am not complaining about anything.

I don't understand your issue then. I'm not going to argue insurance rates with you because it's completely irrelevant to the points I was making earlier. Saying your insurance will rise 14% is completely meaningless to any discussion because 14% to you means something to only you and no one else. For one business it could rise 30% but they could still turn even higher profits for the year, for another it could rise 3% and it could lower their profits for the year. It is literally irrelevant to any discussion because one number alone is not a set of metrics of any kind. Only you as a business owner can decide how an expense will be handled in your company. It is entirely up to you and only you.

Minte · 11-08-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy

I was talking with a guy from one of the Police Departments about it. They worked out a deal with a local hospital, local doctors and then the employees. Worked well for them and saved them a shit ton of cash. Also started pushing the employees about weight issues and things along those lines.

I understand you dont have the time to baby sit but sometimes its worth doing it.

Got a contact I can use,. Want to ask a question about the things you make.

mint at jefnet dot com

Minte · 11-08-2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

I don't understand your issue then. I'm not going to argue insurance rates with you because it's completely irrelevant to the points I was making earlier. Saying your insurance will rise 14% is completely meaningless to any discussion because 14% to you means something to only you and no one else. For one business it could rise 30% but they could still turn even higher profits for the year, for another it could rise 3% and it could lower their profits for the year. It is literally irrelevant to any discussion because one number alone is not a set of metrics of any kind. Only you as a business owner can decide how an expense will be handled in your company. It is entirely up to you and only you.

The point was not about arguing insurance rates. The point was doing the research and all of those things are only small tools that we can use. It's not like when raw plastic goes up because of some disastor somewhere that we can automatically raise prices to all of our customers. Even when we do raise prices it takes months before we begin to rebuild the cash on hand.

The real world of mainstream is not a whole lot like the business classes they teach in a college.
Maybe in fortune 500 companies there is a formula that they follow religeously, but not in smaller companies. It's a lot of gut checks and risk taking that goes into it.

potter · 11-08-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

The point was not about arguing insurance rates. The point was doing the research and all of those things are only small tools that we can use. It's not like when raw plastic goes up because of some disastor somewhere that we can automatically raise prices to all of our customers. Even when we do raise prices it takes months before we begin to rebuild the cash on hand.

The real world of mainstream is not a whole lot like the business classes they teach in a college.
Maybe in fortune 500 companies there is a formula that they follow religeously, but not in smaller companies. It's a lot of gut checks and risk taking that goes into it.

The point is you shouldn't be operating your business where a rise in plastics would cripple the business or force you to push that cost onto customers. That's the whole idea behind running proper margins. That's what they're there for. Every business will have unforeseen costs, that's why they should already be figured into your margins.

Even the general public needs to figure in unforeseen costs. Take a car for example. Intelligent people know and understand that cars will have issues and eventually break down. They factor that into their budget when purchasing a car and living their day to day lives. If something happens they have the money on hand to deal with it. Then you have the not so intelligent people who have their fingers crossed nothing goes wrong and when/if something does they're screwed.

This all circles back to the idea that a business is solely responsible for how it operates. The price of plastic goes up, well if your business was dependent on the price of plastic I sure fucking hope you had planned for it - otherwise that was absolutely your fault (not whatever drove up plastic prices). If you're in a business that has really high workman's comp rates, so fucking what. Perhaps you shouldn't have gotten into a such a business.

And this isn't directed at you necessarily. I'm simply making a point. Business owners are responsible in and of themselves. The second they start blaming the government or other events they have failed as a business owner.

epitome · 11-08-2012, 02:07 PM

All I read is an excuse just like when I read excuses about piracy, tubes and everything else someone can pin their woes on.

My best years where immediately after the housing market crash when everybody else was at their worst.

epitome · 11-08-2012, 02:12 PM

Oh about unforeseen costs due to ObamaCare... I have been told by my friends that work for big corporations that starting next year they are being moved to PPO and their rates will be based on utilization, whether they are a smoker, their weight, etc. I know that Wells Fargo and JetBlue are doing this.

Rather than bitching about it, companies are figuring out how to work with it.

It seems like bitching has replaced finding solutions. When did America get flooded with so many whiny bitches?

The older generations like to pick on the teens and early twenty somethings of today but they sure as fuck don't bitch as much as some of the supposedly older and wiser folks found here and elsewhere.

Rochard · 11-08-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

I don't understand your issue then. I'm not going to argue insurance rates with you because it's completely irrelevant to the points I was making earlier. Saying your insurance will rise 14% is completely meaningless to any discussion because 14% to you means something to only you and no one else. For one business it could rise 30% but they could still turn even higher profits for the year, for another it could rise 3% and it could lower their profits for the year. It is literally irrelevant to any discussion because one number alone is not a set of metrics of any kind. Only you as a business owner can decide how an expense will be handled in your company. It is entirely up to you and only you.

He's saying that insurance is going to cost him more because of Obamacare. But he doesn't know how much. And the truth is it was going to cost him more next year anyhow because it goes up every year like clockwork.

Minte is also saying businessmen are not interested in investing or expansion because it's not wise to invest while we have a second term president with slow and steady growth because it's much better to invest with a new president who has yet to tell us what his plan might be.

Minte · 11-08-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

He's saying that insurance is going to cost him more because of Obamacare. But he doesn't know how much. And the truth is it was going to cost him more next year anyhow because it goes up every year like clockwork.

Minte is also saying businessmen are not interested in investing or expansion because it's not wise to invest while we have a second term president with slow and steady growth because it's much better to invest with a new president who has yet to tell us what his plan might be.

Wasn't it already enough that you had to make a thread about my tax liability.
Do you have any idea at how stupid you are making yourself look?
I am going to ask you nicely, this one time.

Stop putting your words into my mouth.

Minte · 11-08-2012, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

The point is you shouldn't be operating your business where a rise in plastics would cripple the business or force you to push that cost onto customers. That's the whole idea behind running proper margins. That's what they're there for. Every business will have unforeseen costs, that's why they should already be figured into your margins.

Even the general public needs to figure in unforeseen costs. Take a car for example. Intelligent people know and understand that cars will have issues and eventually break down. They factor that into their budget when purchasing a car and living their day to day lives. If something happens they have the money on hand to deal with it. Then you have the not so intelligent people who have their fingers crossed nothing goes wrong and when/if something does they're screwed.

This all circles back to the idea that a business is solely responsible for how it operates. The price of plastic goes up, well if your business was dependent on the price of plastic I sure fucking hope you had planned for it - otherwise that was absolutely your fault (not whatever drove up plastic prices). If you're in a business that has really high workman's comp rates, so fucking what. Perhaps you shouldn't have gotten into a such a business.

And this isn't directed at you necessarily. I'm simply making a point. Business owners are responsible in and of themselves. The second they start blaming the government or other events they have failed as a business owner.

This is all fine, I guess I must just be lucky now for 30 years. I would love to come and tour your facility so maybe I can pick up some tips. God knows I must need them.

SmutHammer · 11-08-2012, 02:56 PM

You guys are right, Health insurance does go up every year. Can someone please tell me the last time it went up 30% in one year?

RKLover · 11-08-2012, 03:25 PM

IMHO - all these people claiming they won't start a business because Obama was re-elected are short sighted, and apparently, very unaware of the tax code.

Just saying, if you're paying that 56% tax rate on more than a nominal amount, get a new accountant.

If you set up your companies as S-Corp or LLC's, you must pay yourself a nominal salary. Sure, that is subject to Payroll, State and Federal Tax.

The remaining income is passed through to you and taxed at the dividend rate of 15%. Didn't anyone read any of the articles explaining Mitt's taxes?

Matt 26z · 11-08-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EonBlue

Make of these what you will:

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/gru...offs-you-voted

http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/forwar...er-doing-same/

http://twitchy.com/2012/11/07/boeing...fter-election/

I could be wrong but I get the feeling things are going to get much worse in short time.

The layoff threats prior to the election were coming from companies that backed Romney. They were political publicity stunts.

Common sense is that if it takes 10 factory employees to meet order deadlines, you can't lay one of them off without missing deadlines. A more likely scenario is a slight price increase.

woj · 11-08-2012, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

The layoff threats prior to the election were coming from companies that backed Romney. They were political publicity stunts.

Common sense is that if it takes 10 factory employees to meet order deadlines, you can't lay one of them off without missing deadlines. A more likely scenario is a slight price increase.

real world isn't that simple... many companies have very tight margins, so in some situations it may make sense to cut volume and work with 8 employees than to keep 10 on the payroll...

Phoenix · 11-08-2012, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

When you get kicked squarely in the ass, you will have a sore butt. And over the last decade businesses have been kicked squarely in the ass.

On a local level. Walmart(s) have nearly destroyed every ma & pa business in the area. Every where you look you see small vacant buildings that once housed small businesses. And Walmart prospers because they buy most of what they sell from companies based overseas.

In my mind. Walmart has done more to damage the economy than the federal government did. Walmart made going offshore legitimate. So now everyone does it.

I have been saying this for many years.
Long ago, i had the privelege of being on Student council, and where i went to School. The School owned all the land, and leased it out to people in 99 year lots. Anyway, i voted against allowing Walmart in, a few years after i left, they were in though.

And of course many of the cool stores that people used to love are now gone.

beemk · 11-08-2012, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So Minte will stand to gain while his employees foot the bill. Meanwhile, he buys a new exotic car.

Brilliant.

translation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Minte can afford exotic cars and I'm jealous because I'm stuck with a shitty truck and a $4,000 mustang.

jimmy-3-way · 11-08-2012, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So Minte will stand to gain while his employees foot the bill. Meanwhile, he buys a new exotic car.

Brilliant.

That's how capitalism works.

They can't DO what he DOES. So they work for him.

NewNick · 11-09-2012, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way

That's how capitalism works.

They can't DO what he DOES. So they work for him.

Problem is that the likes of Minte want capitalism and a free market when it works out well for them.

However capitalism and the free market are now making it hard for his business because new players are taking advantage of their lower cost base.

That's a very hypocritical position. If you embrace the market you have to take the good with the bad.

mce · 11-09-2012, 03:34 AM

Well, you can still branch out into mainstream by hiring my writing services

$5 buys you 1000 words. Copyscape-passed, high-quality engaging text.

11-08-2012, 01:29 PM	#53
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	Do you guys actually read the tax codes and use the write offs they give you? __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

11-08-2012, 01:39 PM	#56
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	I was talking with a guy from one of the Police Departments about it. They worked out a deal with a local hospital, local doctors and then the employees. Worked well for them and saved them a shit ton of cash. Also started pushing the employees about weight issues and things along those lines. I understand you dont have the time to baby sit but sometimes its worth doing it. Got a contact I can use,. Want to ask a question about the things you make. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

11-08-2012, 02:56 PM	#66
SmutHammer Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,124	You guys are right, Health insurance does go up every year. Can someone please tell me the last time it went up 30% in one year? Last edited by SmutHammer; 11-08-2012 at 03:00 PM..

11-08-2012, 03:25 PM	#67
RKLover A B User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 256	IMHO - all these people claiming they won't start a business because Obama was re-elected are short sighted, and apparently, very unaware of the tax code. Just saying, if you're paying that 56% tax rate on more than a nominal amount, get a new accountant. If you set up your companies as S-Corp or LLC's, you must pay yourself a nominal salary. Sure, that is subject to Payroll, State and Federal Tax. The remaining income is passed through to you and taxed at the dividend rate of 15%. Didn't anyone read any of the articles explaining Mitt's taxes? __________________ There is no excuse for ignorance, yet it still remains a powerful force.

11-09-2012, 03:34 AM	#74
mce Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: All Over Posts: 3,917	Well, you can still branch out into mainstream by hiring my writing services $5 buys you 1000 words. Copyscape-passed, high-quality engaging text. __________________ Pay Virtual Assistants Based on RESULTS instead of TIME STOP getting FUCKED IN THE ASS by your VA

11-08-2012, 02:07 PM	#61
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	All I read is an excuse just like when I read excuses about piracy, tubes and everything else someone can pin their woes on. My best years where immediately after the housing market crash when everybody else was at their worst.

11-08-2012, 02:12 PM	#62
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Oh about unforeseen costs due to ObamaCare... I have been told by my friends that work for big corporations that starting next year they are being moved to PPO and their rates will be based on utilization, whether they are a smoker, their weight, etc. I know that Wells Fargo and JetBlue are doing this. Rather than bitching about it, companies are figuring out how to work with it. It seems like bitching has replaced finding solutions. When did America get flooded with so many whiny bitches? The older generations like to pick on the teens and early twenty somethings of today but they sure as fuck don't bitch as much as some of the supposedly older and wiser folks found here and elsewhere.