Originally Posted by Slappin Fish

Haha..what a condescending fuck you are. Its clear you see yourself as a freethinker, an erudite of all subject, but sorry to break to you, unlike Crockett who feels very strongly about Israel but has a wide variety of opinions, you are bar johnnyclips THE most predictable poster on GFY. a walking cliche.

Get over yourself

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish

Haha..what a condescending fuck you are. Its clear you see yourself as a freethinker, an erudite of all subject, but sorry to break to you, unlike Crockett who feels very strongly about Israel but has a wide variety of opinions, you are bar johnnyclips THE most predictable poster on GFY. a walking cliche.

Get over yourself

Originally Posted by crockett

You are just going over the deep end at this point. It's not even worth arguing because Jewish people nor Palestinian people ever held any claims on the US or any other country out side the middle east so your commit has no logic.

Also for someone that is calling someone else racist.. You sure seem to be boarding on that line.

Also since you seem to think it's only the Jews that have pushed others out of their homes, perhaps you should educate your self. This went both ways. Arabs were forcing Jews out of their countries as soon as Israel was created as a backlash. It was actually before Israel was created, it only got worse after as a backlash. (don't hear you complaining about that now do we?)

Between 1930 to the 1970s 800,000 to 1 million Jews were forced out of neighboring Arab countries. Their homes & land were taken.

The Jewish people did the same thing in thew West Bank & Gaza to the Arab people as a result of the 1948 Arab?Israeli War. The difference here is Jews were being forced out of their homes prior to even having their modern day state created and returned the favor and the Arabic counties attacked them. So you can't say trhe Jews did it first as Arabs were kicking Jews out since the 30's under nationalism acts.

About 600,000 and 760,000 Palestinian Arabs were forced out of their homes as a result and another 10 thousand Jews were forced out of Palestinian as result of the 1948 war that Arabs started.

So the street goes both ways and personally I think both groups are in the wrong, but being you seem to only blame only the Jews, I figured I'd educate you. However you seem to be going off the deep end and it's becoming annoying arguing with you.

IMO there should be a Palestinian state created, but how do you work with people that elect a terrorist origination as their govt? Perhaps if Palestinian people had worked the legal system as the Jews did instead of just picking up the gun, perhaps they wouldn't be sitting with out a country today.

Ironically there was plans of a Palestinian state that ended up nothing happening because the Arab Israeli war. UN General Assembly Resolution 181 was to create two state, one for the Jewish & one for Palestine, but the Arabs attacked and it never happened.

Wanna blame someone, then blame the Arabs..

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Using actual history is never a good idea on GFY. People will just find a "historical internet fact" that someone has posted somewhere and start waving it around.....




.

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

If Windsor, Ontario started shelling Detroit, Michigan I'm pretty sure we'd shell them back.
End of cool story bro's.

Originally Posted by moeloubani

So you do not recognize the right for a Jewish family to exist? Shame on you, crockett.

As to how other countries have treated the Jews I can't speak to, if Jews were kicked out then that is horrible, the Palestinians (and most of the Arabs) and the Jewish people got along fine until Zionism moved into the area with its goal of getting rid of all the Palestinians living there.

How are Palestinians supposed to work the legal system? We don't have access to the UN or the international courts.

Why should I blame the Arabs? You yourself were unwilling to give your house to a Jewish family. Why do you expect the Arabs to do the same? Please answer this question.

Originally Posted by moeloubani

So you do not recognize the right for a Jewish family to exist? Shame on you, crockett.

As to how other countries have treated the Jews I can't speak to, if Jews were kicked out then that is horrible, the Palestinians (and most of the Arabs) and the Jewish people got along fine until Zionism moved into the area with its goal of getting rid of all the Palestinians living there.

How are Palestinians supposed to work the legal system? We don't have access to the UN or the international courts.

Why should I blame the Arabs? You yourself were unwilling to give your house to a Jewish family. Why do you expect the Arabs to do the same? Please answer this question.

Originally Posted by crockett

You have officially gone off the deep end..

Originally Posted by blofer80

Nobody took any house in Gaza. Israel Left Gaza to your 67 borders, since than, more than 10k rockets fired, Loser.

Originally Posted by moeloubani

What would you do if Detroit moved their military to surround Windsor, told you that you have to be on a diet that they specify, won't give you medicine and medical devices your children need to live, told you that you aren't allowed to come and go anymore, force you to carry cards, arrest and imprison people who don't agree and then ask you to not fight back?

What would you do? Just sit there and do nothing?

Originally Posted by moeloubani

What if the other side wasn't interested in any sort of agreement? Israel has refused calls to end the blockade for a ceasefire and refused calls to agree on the 1967 borders which even the US agrees should form the basis for a Palestinian state. So you've tried that and it's going nowhere, now what? Just sit by and watch as your children starve?

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Israel has destroyed homes in Gaza before but that isn't my point. My point is that Israel took Palestine from us, not Gaza. Why should the Palestinians be okay with our land being taken from under our feet?

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Israel has to "give" Palestinians everything? Where are the rest of the Arab nations and the Muslim Brotherhood to support them? Sounds like you're exaggerating. Besides, I thought the well funded Hamas was going to solve all the problems Palestinians and weren't just a bunch of radical assholes seeking a stronger foothold in the region at the expense of the people???... They care?

Originally Posted by blofer80

Israel gave the whole Gaza to Palestinians, more than 10k missleswere shot

HAMAS OFFICIALLY DOESNT RECOGNIZE ISRAEL TO EXIST. so who you want Israel to make peace with?

Show me 1 Hamas leader saying he wants peace with ISRAEL. SHOW ME THE LINK !
1 LINK OF HAMAS LEADER SAYING HE AGRESS TO PEACE WITH ISRAEL.

WAITING!

Originally Posted by moeloubani

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/rupp.php?articleid=10195

Hamas Leader: We'll Accept Israel Within 1967 Borders

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Not sure what you mean about Hamas considering they are dying right now for the Palestinian cause. You don't think they care?

Originally Posted by crockett

IMO there should be a Palestinian state created, but how do you work with people that elect a terrorist origination as their govt? Perhaps if Palestinian people had worked the legal system as the Jews did instead of just picking up the gun, perhaps they wouldn't be sitting with out a country today.

Originally Posted by crockett

However the biggest reason I support Israel over the Palestine's is because even if the state had been created for Palestine, the Arabs still would have never accepted the right for he Jewish state to exist.

Originally Posted by blofer80

1. You bring me a link from 2006.
2. You bring me interview in English where he wants to lick balls of europeans.
3. Even in your OWN link, see what he says:

"Because of many factors, we now accept to build a Palestinian state within the borders of 1967. But that doesn't mean that we recognize Israel. But we are prepared to make a long-term truce with Israel. Accepting the status of Israel without recognizing it.
"


I am still waiting to a link ;)

Originally Posted by Bryan G

This shit has and will go on for years. It will never end. Both are as bad as each other. Its disgusting.

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

It's a well known fact that virtually every Israeli leader was a terrorist. At least one of them was part of a terrorist group that openly supported the Third Reich during WWII. And just a few years ago Israel even put up a memorial to the Jewish terrorists who murdered almost 100 people, including Jews, at the King David Hotel.



Firstly, that's not true, the PLO recognized Israel almost a quarter-century ago. Secondly, why is it fine for Israel to deny Palestine's 'right' to exist, but not vice versa?

Can you explain why any country has a 'right' to exist? And furthermore, what justification is there for a religion to have its own special country? An absolutely tiny religion of only a few million people. Do you believe Mormons should have their own country?

And why, when Jews have had their own special country for over 60 years, at the expense of Palestinians (and American taxpayers), do most Jews not even live there?

Originally Posted by crockett

First of all Palestine denied their own right to exist when they chose to support war instead of agreeing to the UN Resolution 181. That was their chance to create a country but they were greedy and instead choose to fight because they thought they could take land away from Israel.

Israel won and now it's somehow supposed to be their fault that a Palestine state was never created. Hate to break it to you but if you start a fight and lose it's not the other dudes fault you got your ass kicked.

Originally Posted by crockett

Honestly, I don't like what Israel has done and I would like to support the Palestine's more on this subject because I don't think it's all their fault. However I have to look at the situation that Israel is in, an understand that they really have no other option. They have been attacked non stop since their state was created by either actual states or by terrorist whom those same states refuse to do anything about.

Going back and forth as to who's land this or that was prior will never solve anything. However the biggest reason I support Israel over the Palestine's is because even if the state had been created for Palestine, the Arabs still would have never accepted the right for he Jewish state to exist.

While the boarders might be a bit different if it had been created, I don't really think there would be peace there regardless. Hence the reason I see Israel doing what they have to do as a country to survive. Sadly that creates a on going circle of fighting that will continue for who knows how long.

IMO in this overall situation the Arabs are the aggressors be it by actual wars or by individual terrorism. Until the Arabic world can change it's views on the right for Israel to exist then there will always be fighting as Israel will have to fight to survive.

Originally Posted by Rochard

I agree with you.

If my neighbor moves his fence back ten feet on to my property, I can't shoot him.

Israel is doing what it wants with it's borders and is slowly taking land that does not belong to them. However, it seems to me that no one owns that land because Palestine is not a country. The only thing they can do is stop this bullshit and quickly form a country so that official borders can be recognized. Otherwise, they will continue to have their land taken away from under their feet.

Originally Posted by crockett

First of all Palestine denied their own right to exist when they chose to support war instead of agreeing to the UN Resolution 181. That was their chance to create a country but they were greedy and instead choose to fight because they thought they could take land away from Israel.

Israel won and now it's somehow supposed to be their fault that a Palestine state was never created. Hate to break it to you but if you start a fight and lose it's not the other dudes fault you got your ass kicked.

Originally Posted by crockett

The problem is the Palestine's would rather Cut off their nose to spite their face. When they say they want the 1967 boarders back they are saying they want East Jerusalem.

Instead of agreeing to peace creating a country and getting on with their lives they would rather continue to fight and die for the next hundred years for part of a city that has been in Israels hands for almost 50 years.

Then of course if they did get East Jerusalem they would almost certainly want more because it wasn't enough for them prior to the 6 day war, so why would it be enough now?

Originally Posted by moeloubani

You asked for a link where the Hamas leader said he wanted peace with Israel, I showed you the link. Not recognizing Israel isn't not being at peace with Israel.

Stop being so butthurt that you were wrong. Get used to it when you see my name and your opinion differs.



How did the world listen to Yasser Arafat? What did the world do for the Palestinians at that time? Israel still refuses the 1967 borders, Israel refuses to end the blockade on Palestinians despite calls from the UN to do so. Even today Israel and the US stress that we should not go to the UN for statehood or we will be punished.

Why should any Palestinian accept Israel's right to exist? They have no problem not accepting Palestine's right to exist. They took our land and now we are supposed to just accept that they are the new owners?

Would you accept me as the new owner of your home just because I asked you to?

Originally Posted by moeloubani

East Jerusalem was always Palestinian land under international law. Just because Israel occupied it it doesn't make it Israeli land. Even the US believes the 1967 borders are the way to go - I guess you believe the best thing is just to wipe out the entire Palestinian race? Give Israel everything they want and give the Palestinians nothing?

You still haven't shown me any proof that you've given up your house. Why are you denying a Jewish family the right to exist?

Originally Posted by moeloubani

Crockett you still refusing the right for a Jewish family to exist in your home? I'm still waiting, you can just take a room for yourself and give them the rest, right? Imagine they just come in with their guns and military and take it for themselves and you'd be an idiot to want to stop them - no not an idiot, a terrorist. A terrorist for trying to take back your own home.

Sound familiar? I don't know why you keep pushing that the Palestinians should have accepted any less than 100% of their own land.

Originally Posted by crockett

Let me give you a dose of reality. Here in the US we have a term that "Possession is nine tenths of the law". While it might not be legally accurate, it's for the most part how countries boarders have been formed around the world.

What ever land you claim that Israel has that you think is yours, is irrelevant because they now possess it. It might be right it might be wrong, but that's how it is. That is reality.

Now there are two decisions you can make. You can accept this and work with what you have potentially try to legally annex it via the UN or you can wage war and try to take what ever back.

The world offers support via the peaceful solution, but instead you choose the war solution and want to complain when it doesn't work out so well. Sorry but you can't always have your cake and eat it too there are always consequences to war and the losing side doesn't get to write the rules.. Ask Germany & Japan about that.. both of which thrive today because they accepted the terms when they lost.

Originally Posted by blofer80

3. See the Israeli side, they went back to the 67 borders on BOTH Gaza and South Lebanon and got in return only rockets and attacks. The reason Israel went back to the 67 borders is in order to HAVE PEACE, not just giving lands.

Originally Posted by helterskelter808

Lebanon was not involved in the Six Day War. Israel invaded Lebanon in 1978, 1982 and 2006.

Originally Posted by crockett

What ever land you claim that Israel has that you think is yours, is irrelevant because they now possess it. It might be right it might be wrong, but that's how it is. That is reality.

Originally Posted by crockett

The problem is the Palestine's would rather Cut off their nose to spite their face. When they say they want the 1967 boarders back they are saying they want East Jerusalem.

Instead of agreeing to peace creating a country and getting on with their lives they would rather continue to fight and die for the next hundred years for part of a city that has been in Israels hands for almost 50 years.

Then of course if they did get East Jerusalem they would almost certainly want more because it wasn't enough for them prior to the 6 day war, so why would it be enough now? Instead of agreeing to peace and accepting what they have now, they will likely continue to lose more and more lives and likely territory.

Originally Posted by crockett

The world offers support via the peaceful solution, but instead you choose the war solution and want to complain when it doesn't work out so well. Sorry but you can't always have your cake and eat it too there are always consequences to war and the losing side doesn't get to write the rules.. Ask Germany & Japan about that.. both of which thrive today because they accepted the terms when they lost.

Originally Posted by oppoten

Putin will not be assassinated

Here's what should have happened. Hitler should have negotiated with Stalin to send six million Jews to under-populated regions of Siberia, where they would have lived free of persecution under a Jew-friendly political system. Those six million and their descendants could help protect the region against an inevitable Chinese invasion, which many Russians believe is already happening. Yeah it would be cold but they'd have coats and beards and shit, they'd survive.

If they wanted, those Jews could then return to their ancestral home of Khazaria, as many other exiled groups in Russia have done (Crimean Tatars, Chechens etc.) What the fuck is the point of squabbling over heavily-populated strips of land when there are vast regions that could do with the influx? If there ever is a "world government", I'd hope to fuck that they'd spread the people out a bit more.

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

It's a diplomatic chatter. Nothing serious IMHO.