Need Lawyers Advice

[redspace]

Ok so heres the story!

My father sold a 4 Wheeler to his friend on payments.

They agreed to keep the 4 Wheeler in my fathers name until the last payment was made.

Deal was verbal only, no contract on paper.

Sometime after the third payment My fathers friend Died.

The wife refuses to pay, make payments, or return the 4 Wheeler, and says Go Fuck Yourself.

Ok now keep in mind that the 4 Wheeler is fully in my dads name...

He asks two separate lawyers and they say your shit out of luck you can't retrieve the property.

- He was unsure if he mentioned the title part...

- Asked a local car dealership about the situation since their repo guy was not in and they said just simply go to her local police station and request assistance to claim the property, and if she does not give the property back on the spot she will be placed under arrest and booked for grand theft and you will still get your property back at that time.

Is there any truth to this? What do you suggest?

PA is the place of residence on both parties.

Thanks, Derek

[atom]

I'm not a lawyer but I do watch Judge Judy.

If the 4 wheeler is in his name it is legally his property. Your father will need to go to the local Sheriff's office and ask for assistance in obtaining his property. If she wants to take him to court it will be her job to prove how many payments were made, etc etc to a judge.

[_Richard_]

why not call the police and ask? obviously the money already paid would need to be returned, minus expenses etc

[redspace]

Hey atom,

Thank you for the quick reply! I was thinking the same!

[Harmon]

Well if there is a payment owed you have a few options. They are as follows:

1) Your dad (who is alive) can be a cock and go steal it (the quad) back and let her go through civil court in which case your dad can lie to the judge and keep it

2) Let the woman have it, because ya know... fuck, her HUSBAND just died and we all know you wouldn't want to burden a grieving wife of what I am guessing is less than a grand unless this 4wheeler is something spectacular and brand new or something gay that still isn't worth what you think it is

3) Sack the fuck up. Suck it up. This is why you don't make life changing contracts on a handshake. It's a redneck debt. Tell her that you accept for her to pay it off in Milwaukee's Best shit beer.

[redspace]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

why not call the police and ask? obviously the money already paid would need to be returned, minus expenses etc

Our local police station wont answer the phone ever, you can only get a hold of them thru 911 so i always rule that option out. I don't think she would be entitled to get the payments back due to the fact that she was not the debter, but more so that the contract was not upheld. I kinda see it like if you get your car repoed they don't return the money to you.

But in the end i think he would be more then happy to gift her the money... It was once a 9k 4wheeler with only 3 miles on it before he sold it. I can only guess what state its in now.

thanks for the input!

-Derek

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by redspace

Our local police station wont answer the phone ever, you can only get a hold of them thru 911 so i always rule that option out. I don't think she would be entitled to get the payments back due to the fact that she was not the debter, but more so that the contract was not upheld. I kinda see it like if you get your car repoed they don't return the money to you.

But in the end i think he would be more then happy to gift her the money... It was once a 9k 4wheeler with only 3 miles on it before he sold it. I can only guess what state its in now.

thanks for the input!

-Derek

it's not really a 'repo' it's your dads friends wife who died. Obviously there was a deal going on and she should really honour or return it, but i think there is a level of 'it's already partially paid for'

if you get the vehicle back, those payments should be repayed minus lost value/use, as per the relationship

however, on a moral level, just forget about it lol

[v4 media]

3 payments made.. how many should have been?

[redspace]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Well if there is a payment owed you have a few options. They are as follows:

1) Your dad (who is alive) can be a cock and go steal it (the quad) back and let her go through civil court in which case your dad can lie to the judge and keep it

2) Let the woman have it, because ya know... fuck, her HUSBAND just died and we all know you wouldn't want to burden a grieving wife of what I am guessing is less than a grand unless this 4wheeler is something spectacular and brand new or something gay that still isn't worth what you think it is

3) Sack the fuck up. Suck it up. This is why you don't make life changing contracts on a handshake. It's a redneck debt. Tell her that you accept for her to pay it off in Milwaukee's Best shit beer.

Option one is what i've been wanting to do myself for a while with no approval. Two is kinda of a hard one... it Was a 9k 4wheeler with only 3 miles on it, so does he just let her keep it? He didn't, but he also gave a tremendous amount of respect to her by waiting three months before even speaking about the matter. He was very nice about it but she was no so nice so it escalated them not speaking anymore and her getting to use the 4wheeler for free. Number three i fully agree on, handshakes can suck it. I try not to do business with family or friends and no matter what i always do a contract. I let the friendship thing fuck me over once on a dream car for a friend, never again!

Thank you for the advice and input harmon!

-Derek

[redspace]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

it's not really a 'repo' it's your dads friends wife who died. Obviously there was a deal going on and she should really honour or return it, but i think there is a level of 'it's already partially paid for'

if you get the vehicle back, those payments should be repayed minus lost value/use, as per the relationship

however, on a moral level, just forget about it lol

Oh yes he gave her every option in the book instead of free. She could lower payments, wait a while etc... She clearly stated the fucking 4wheeler is mine and you will never see it or a dime. That kinda took it to a personal level...

He either has two options falling in line with what you said.
1. Go get it back with the sheriff

2. Transfer the title into her name and be done with it. It would probably suck if a random person died in an accident relating to that 4wheeler and the repercussions of that landed on my father.


Thank you
-Derek

[geedub]

Call the police.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by atom

I'm not a lawyer but I do watch Judge Judy.

If the 4 wheeler is in his name it is legally his property. Your father will need to go to the local Sheriff's office and ask for assistance in obtaining his property. If she wants to take him to court it will be her job to prove how many payments were made, etc etc to a judge.

Makes Sense. Piriod.

[marcop]

Why don't you consult a lawyer instead of GFY? Or maybe your "dad" could?

What did he say to you, "Could you start a thread on GFY, sonny, and ask what the trolls there think of my legal standing in this situation"? Yeah, that totally makes sense.

[L-Pink]

Just make a new one.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by marcop

Why don't you consult a lawyer instead of GFY? Or maybe your "dad" could?

What did he say to you, "Could you start a thread on GFY, sonny, and ask what the trolls there think of my legal standing in this situation"? Yeah, that totally makes sense.

Generalize much?

There are actually a few legal eagles on GFY. Seen them offer solid legal advice on numerous occasions over the years.

Notwithstanding...I'd still consult with police first to see what they can do...failing that see a real lawyer.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by redspace

Oh yes he gave her every option in the book instead of free. She could lower payments, wait a while etc... She clearly stated the fucking 4wheeler is mine and you will never see it or a dime. That kinda took it to a personal level...

He either has two options falling in line with what you said.
1. Go get it back with the sheriff

2. Transfer the title into her name and be done with it. It would probably suck if a random person died in an accident relating to that 4wheeler and the repercussions of that landed on my father.


Thank you
-Derek

well i think you just explained why there is a need to create a police report then. I am not sure you can even transfer the title without her signing it

[NALEM]

Originally Posted by redspace

Ok so heres the story!

My father sold a 4 Wheeler to his friend on payments.

They agreed to keep the 4 Wheeler in my fathers name until the last payment was made.

Deal was verbal only, no contract on paper.

Sometime after the third payment My fathers friend Died.

The wife refuses to pay, make payments, or return the 4 Wheeler, and says Go Fuck Yourself.

Ok now keep in mind that the 4 Wheeler is fully in my dads name...

He asks two separate lawyers and they say your shit out of luck you can't retrieve the property.

- He was unsure if he mentioned the title part...

- Asked a local car dealership about the situation since their repo guy was not in and they said just simply go to her local police station and request assistance to claim the property, and if she does not give the property back on the spot she will be placed under arrest and booked for grand theft and you will still get your property back at that time.

Is there any truth to this? What do you suggest?

PA is the place of residence on both parties.

Thanks, Derek

I am no liar/lawyer but play one on TV.

Title is in your fathers names. Your father needs to report to the police the 4 wheeler as stolen, and advise them where he believes it is to be found. Police will likely convince the property owner to give them access and visually confirm its there. Burden of proof is on her to show sheriff, and more importantly the Judge that is rightfully belongs to her or her deceased husband. Some may treat this matter as Grand Theft if its value is over something like 5000 USD.

Remember when you phone the sheriff, calls are recorded. Be careful what you say. In the same token, whatever they say or promise is now being recorded, and you can subpoena them for a audio transcript.

Bring copy of title/registration showing that your dad is owner. I suggest you also pull something from the internet, showing current value of the 4wheeler.

Best is to have a face to face chat with law enforcement, convince them to play tough with her, and see what happens. Be sure they know, you are taken notes, Deputy names, badge numbers, times, etc ... they tend to behave more properly with you, when they are aware of this.

Regardless if you take possession of the 4wheeler or not when the police are involved, demand a detailed report from them of what played out.

Hope this helped.

[xenigo]

This is a simple situation. Your dad owns the vehicle, so he can either take her to small claims court and get a civil judgement to have the property returned... or he can bypass small claims and have the sheriff help you reclaim the property.

My dad had to repo a car that was fraudulently financed by his dying mother for her caretaker (elder abuse)... he simply marched into their garage and said "I'm here for the car. Give me the keys NOW." They handed over the keys... and he drove it away. Simple...

Just don't get shot doing it.

[ThunderBalls]

You're all making this waaay more difficult than it needs to be. If there is no contract and the title is in your dads name just go take the damn thing back and be done with it. What's she going to do, call the cops and say you stole it?

[DBS.US]

You do know if she has an accident in the truck and hurts someone your father could be held responsible?

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Well if there is a payment owed you have a few options. They are as follows:

1) Your dad (who is alive) can be a cock and go steal it (the quad) back and let her go through civil court in which case your dad can lie to the judge and keep it

2) Let the woman have it, because ya know... fuck, her HUSBAND just died and we all know you wouldn't want to burden a grieving wife of what I am guessing is less than a grand unless this 4wheeler is something spectacular and brand new or something gay that still isn't worth what you think it is

3) Sack the fuck up. Suck it up. This is why you don't make life changing contracts on a handshake. It's a redneck debt. Tell her that you accept for her to pay it off in Milwaukee's Best shit beer.

Number 3 is the best advice

The guy died. That's on you for not having a written agreement.

[epitome]

She can pay the fourth payment from his estate or it is breach of contract and he can repo it. As his wife she assumed his debt upon his passing.

[keysync]

Originally Posted by xenigo

This is a simple situation. Your dad owns the vehicle, so he can either take her to small claims court and get a civil judgement to have the property returned... or he can bypass small claims and have the sheriff help you reclaim the property.

As a motorsports shop owner.. This is what your options are.

It costs $75 to file a court claim for judgement.
Go to your local county court clerk and tell them what's going on if the cops won't help.

She's just being a bitch and not a very smart one at that.

[bluebook18]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Just make a new one.

[Biggy2]

I mean, you have a history of the payments.

I am sure you can make a quick assessment of "street" value at the time he sold it. Assuming he just didn't totally rip him off, if its a clear underpayment it will be obvious what happened.

And as everyone else said, you have the title. Assuming the car and insurance are still in your dads name, even better. If the local sherriff doesnt pick up the phone, go down there and walk in. Explain what happened, in honesty. And tell them you are there to repo the car. Just be prepared to refund the payments. I doubt you'll be able to keep the payments and claim the car, you might be able to although re-payment is goodwill, and just further shows you are acting in good faith.

Also, I doubt she has a money to pay an attorney, you could snag it in the middle of the night quickly, via a tow truck. Hard for her to make an argument against it. If she comes crying, just show them the title. If she doesn't have the $ to pay you, she doesn't have the $ to pay a lawyer, and in the end, she isn't going to fight for something she knows doesnt belong to her unless she is a truly crazy bitch, but once again, she will need funds and resources to fight it. if she tries to hire any lawyer, they will find out whats going on, when they realize the title isnt in her name, they will kinda realize she's fucked.

lastly, you coudl go to the cops, and potentially file a stolen car report. but you'd need to ask them if thats the right way to handle it.

[redspace]

Originally Posted by marcop

Why don't you consult a lawyer instead of GFY? Or maybe your "dad" could?

What did he say to you, "Could you start a thread on GFY, sonny, and ask what the trolls there think of my legal standing in this situation"? Yeah, that totally makes sense.

He did consult two lawyers. They were worthless. I took the get some free advice from my peers route. I Do know that there are some lawyers on here as i read on here a lot.

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Just make a new one.

Thats the 4wheeler in question! Do you know where this photo was taken?

Originally Posted by _Richard_

well i think you just explained why there is a need to create a police report then. I am not sure you can even transfer the title without her signing it

Yeah they both would need to be present for the transfer. I'm gonna try to get everything done in one trip as the 4wheeler is located 3ish hours away.

Originally Posted by NALEM

I am no liar/lawyer but play one on TV.

Title is in your fathers names. Your father needs to report to the police the 4 wheeler as stolen, and advise them where he believes it is to be found. Police will likely convince the property owner to give them access and visually confirm its there. Burden of proof is on her to show sheriff, and more importantly the Judge that is rightfully belongs to her or her deceased husband. Some may treat this matter as Grand Theft if its value is over something like 5000 USD.

Remember when you phone the sheriff, calls are recorded. Be careful what you say. In the same token, whatever they say or promise is now being recorded, and you can subpoena them for a audio transcript.

Bring copy of title/registration showing that your dad is owner. I suggest you also pull something from the internet, showing current value of the 4wheeler.

Best is to have a face to face chat with law enforcement, convince them to play tough with her, and see what happens. Be sure they know, you are taken notes, Deputy names, badge numbers, times, etc ... they tend to behave more properly with you, when they are aware of this.

Regardless if you take possession of the 4wheeler or not when the police are involved, demand a detailed report from them of what played out.

Hope this helped.

thank you! This helped a lot, along with reply's from other peers. I will be using a lot of what you just said in the game plan i am making to retreive the property.

Originally Posted by xenigo

This is a simple situation. Your dad owns the vehicle, so he can either take her to small claims court and get a civil judgement to have the property returned... or he can bypass small claims and have the sheriff help you reclaim the property.

My dad had to repo a car that was fraudulently financed by his dying mother for her caretaker (elder abuse)... he simply marched into their garage and said "I'm here for the car. Give me the keys NOW." They handed over the keys... and he drove it away. Simple...

Just don't get shot doing it.

Yeah i'm gonna take the route of bringing the cops along. I'd rather it just be an open and shut peaceful tranfser of property in the rightful owners hands.

Originally Posted by ThunderBalls

You're all making this waaay more difficult than it needs to be. If there is no contract and the title is in your dads name just go take the damn thing back and be done with it. What's she going to do, call the cops and say you stole it?

When we're there she can just tap the cop on the shoulder instead of picking up the phone to call them.

Originally Posted by DBS.US

You do know if she has an accident in the truck and hurts someone your father could be held responsible?

This is what i'm most worried about.

Originally Posted by keysync

As a motorsports shop owner.. This is what your options are.

It costs $75 to file a court claim for judgement.
Go to your local county court clerk and tell them what's going on if the cops won't help.

She's just being a bitch and not a very smart one at that.

We are going to go the cop take along route. If she wants to go to court that will be on her.



----------------------

Thank you to everyone who provided input and advice on this matter. I really do appreciate it.

I will update what has happen when the property has either been retrieved or by some retarded gangster shit has been given to her for free.


-Derek

[redspace]

Originally Posted by Biggy2

I mean, you have a history of the payments.

I am sure you can make a quick assessment of "street" value at the time he sold it. Assuming he just didn't totally rip him off, if its a clear underpayment it will be obvious what happened.

And as everyone else said, you have the title. Assuming the car and insurance are still in your dads name, even better. If the local sherriff doesnt pick up the phone, go down there and walk in. Explain what happened, in honesty. And tell them you are there to repo the car. Just be prepared to refund the payments. I doubt you'll be able to keep the payments and claim the car, you might be able to although re-payment is goodwill, and just further shows you are acting in good faith.

Also, I doubt she has a money to pay an attorney, you could snag it in the middle of the night quickly, via a tow truck. Hard for her to make an argument against it. If she comes crying, just show them the title. If she doesn't have the $ to pay you, she doesn't have the $ to pay a lawyer, and in the end, she isn't going to fight for something she knows doesnt belong to her unless she is a truly crazy bitch, but once again, she will need funds and resources to fight it. if she tries to hire any lawyer, they will find out whats going on, when they realize the title isnt in her name, they will kinda realize she's fucked.

lastly, you coudl go to the cops, and potentially file a stolen car report. but you'd need to ask them if thats the right way to handle it.

thank you

-Derek

[Relentless]

If the payments were to go on for more than a year and it was not a written agreement there is no contract thanks to statute of frauds. Go to the police, tell them exactly what happened. Don't try to 'get cute' with the facts. They will most likely try to return both parties to the 'pre-deal' positions.... Aka giving you back your vehicle and getting her back the payments. With a dead husband she can almost defiantly make more use out of those three payments being refunded than she can out f the quad anyway. In the future, when your dad makes an agreement, tell him to use a pen.

[woj]

letting her cool off a little might be a good idea too, did her husband die recently, or has it been a while? Obviously the guy didn't die a week ago and you are not already harassing her about some 4 wheeler?

[johnnyloadproductions]

Depends on the cost, I've seen stories where couples split and spend thousands over simply lawn ornaments, bitterness I guess.

[TehKinkyHotness]

Death does NOT void a contract. However, since this was verbal, they will need to prove that the contract existsed, IE the first payments checks or something of the like.

[Lester Burnham]

Just go to small claims. Most jurisdictions have small claims where neither party can bring a lawyer and the dispute can't be more than $10K or so. Just bring the receipts, title, and hope for the best.

Of course, if you are fighting over $1,000, you gotta do a cost benefit analysis with your time. Sometimes you just have to incur a sunk cost. It is what it is.

[Phoenix]

must not have been a real friend...because if my friend died owing me one payment on a four wheeler...i dont think id have the balls to fuck with his wife.

anyway sucks to be owed money you wont get

[lagcam]

I would let it go. Life is too short, as evidenced by a guy dying before his instalment plan finished.

You have no proof of this verbal contract, you have no proof that the payment by 4 instalments deal wasn't a payment by 3 instalments deal and the woman just lost her husband, who was supposedly a good friend of your dad.

I am sure you wouldn't appreciate a good friend of your dad bothering your mum about something like this if he died?

The right thing to do here is sign the transfer form (to get it out of your dad's name as mentioned by others) and tell your dad in future to make paper agreements even with good friends.

[InfoGuy]

Have you contacted DMV? They should have guidelines, for handling disputes, which reference the law.