edgeprod

My K-Mart purse is the same as your Louis Vuitton -- they're both made out of fabric and hold things.

vdbucks

Umm, hate to break it to you but I was there when Lion was released. There were a LOT of issues with upgrading older Macs. They likely eventually got ironed out I'm sure, but to say the issues weren't there is pretty ignorant.

By the way... the kernel is software, not hardware. So no, Your 2009 Mac Pro does not have EFI64 "out of the box". The software that runs on it does.

Either way, you missed the point. The point was the simple fact that newer Mac hardware is not supported in older OS X software, not that older Mac hardware isn't supported in newer OS X software.

For instance, the Intel Xeon 5620's that I run in my machine simply will not run on 10.5. Nor will 10.6 run on the 5620 or newer cpus to this day. The same thing applies to GPU's.

Nor would it run on 10.6 "out of the box". Support for the 5620's didn't come until 10.6.3, or 10.6.4. I forget which one. But after working with a few people at insanelymac, I got 10.6 running, updated it to 10.6.3 and it ran otherwise flawlessly on my machine until 10.7 came out. And with 10.7 came the ability to "vanilla install" OS X on to my machine.. meaning, ALL pure Apple software, no hacked kernels; no modified kexts; no EFI strings.

Oh and for the sake of being thorough, at the time I was running an Inno3D GTS 250 512MB 256B with full QE/CI capabilities on 10.6 (not that that I expect you to really know what that is)...

Killswitch

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DamianJ

Godamn apple for not being able to see into the future when they code their OS iterations. Cunts.

vdbucks

As in my last post, with 10.7 came the ability to run pure OS X. No modified kernels, no modified kexts, no EFI strings. 10.6 was trickier for sure, but the end result was the same.

Any why wouldn't my system run on your cinema display monitors? What, because the specific card I have doesn't have displayport/mini displayport? That's easily resolved.

Why would I need to worry about Apple support? Unlike you, I know exactly what is in my machines, and therefore I wouldn't be stuck calling a hotline and saying "something' wrong, please help". I'd know how to identify the problem and fix it myself.

As far as not spending the money on a Mac.. I chose not to. At the end of the day, the system I run now ran me a bit over 3k. Choosing not to spend another 1k+ for "Mac hardware" of the same spec was exactly that, a choice. But I like how you try to used the same failed argument that every other mac fanboy uses... you didn't kick out the money for a "real" mac because you can't afford to.

And once again, I could run Lion, and likely even mountain lion, on this machine in their pure form - meaning not having to "hack" shit to make it work flawlessly. The only thing I have to do is run a separate boot loader to work around lack of EFI in my bios. That's akin to running windows bootloader, or grub, or grub2 and has zero impact on the system software itself.

CurrentlySober

Translation - I enjoy the Mac experience so much, over the Windows /PC, that i have spent

Trying to recreate the Mac experience... on a 'pc'...

However I cant / Wont / am unable to afford the same 'Out of the box experience that I am DESPERATELY trying to emulate...

So I will slag it off, and call those who CAN enjoy it stupid...



YOU'RE WELCOME!

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My Dream Gal... XXX

vdbucks

The point.

You missed it.

But thanks for playing.

Klen

I advise you to stick with poo :D

Killswitch

I don't even think I've ever seen a hammer hit the nail on the head so correctly as you just did.

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Dirty F

Let me explain it to you idiots one more time. Your Mac is just a pc with an Apple logo on it which makes it twice as expensive.
There is nothing better about it. It's just more expensive.
Your Mac is not better than my pc because it's a Mac.
You only think it is because you paid 1000 bucks more for it.
I don't hate Apple. I hate idiots who think their Mac is something special. Something better than my pc. It is not.
You live in a retarded fantasy world.
Their marketing works well. Very well.

vdbucks

Sure thing. If that's what people want to believe then so be it.

I'm sorry for you guys though who hold on to the tired ass "you can't afford a real mac" nonsense in order to feel superior with the shit they wasted money on.

edgeprod

Ignorance would be implying that this particular Mac is anything but identical to the current one you'd buy in the store. You're talking out of your ass, trying to cover up for fucking up. You were wrong, it's ok -- we all make mistakes. But trying to backpedal and invent excuses for it is just silly. This Mac is identical to the newer macs, and if they run it, so do I. If you're implying that Mac OS X had some sort of install issue on the current generation of Macs, then that'd be a completely separate issue, and not one I really care about since it's not relevant to your mistake.


Since EFI64 has nothing to do with the kernel, it seems you're once again talking about something you don't understand. But it's ok: I'm used to it by now. The kernel mode preference for a Mac was 32-bit in client machines and 64-bit in server machines for the 2009 model. Mine is a 64-bit "out of the box" kernel. When I went to OS X Lion, it was 64 by default in the OS, so it stopped mattering. Sorry if that's too complex to wrap your brain around, but I really can't dumb it down any further.


It's you who is missing the point: my hardware isn't "older," it's current-gen equivalent. If you went to a Mac store right now to buy one, you'd get one that's just like the one I'm typing on. Implying it's "older" or "different" somehow doesn't even make sense.

No one brought up the "older" software but you, and you were wrong. It was a strange thing to say then, and making it seem like there was some weird incompatibility with the current-gen Mac Pro is not only incorrect, but a weird thing to say.

There was never an issue upgrading this Mac, and to imply there was or ever could have been is just incorrect, like much of what you've been saying.


You don't have a Mac, so what you have in your machine, and whether it's compatible with Mac OS X doesn't matter. Never have I had to modify anything on my machine to install an OS X upgrade, nor has anyone else with the generation of my machine.


Implying that my technical knowledge is somehow inferior to the guy who is consistently wrong is also a weird thing to do .. but I understand why you'd do it.

Since you're just randomly making shit up now for the sake of trying to cover up how poorly you understand the space, don't be surprised if I don't reply. My apologies -- again, not trying to be a bad guy here, you're just completely talking out of your ass at this point.

edgeprod

And, since I run a Mac, I never had to do any of those things. Shazzam.


So your assertion is that when I run into a kext that is broken in an OS X update, I should somehow modify it myself instead of talking to my dedicated Apple rep, who forwards it to Engineering, who fixes it in the next rev? Yup, makes perfect sense. Wtf?




Ok, I'm out. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

edgeprod

This.

To me, it's nothing more than preference. I choose to run Mac, because I like Mac OS X, and it works more easily with my native Mac, than having to bungle around with Hackintosh like some kid. Is that worth $1k to me? Yup, because again: I'm not a kid. I'm a business man who wants to get to doing business, not cock around with the inner workings of my computer to save a few bucks.

Sheep that blindly defend the Mac like it's some God-like object because it costs more are retarded. Use what you want, don't try to tell people your shit is better -- it's better for YOU. For me, it works wonders for my productivity. For someone else, it might be harder to use. To each his or her own. The flip side of the coin, people who blindly rage against Macs, don't make much sense either .. and, as we've seen in this thread, they rarely know what they're even talking about.

vdbucks

I think this is likely the only time I'd ever agree with you on anything.. but this is exactly it.

I said it many times, I don't hate Mac, or Apple, or any of their products. I simply choose to not pay more than something is worth just so I can feel like the product I own is better, even though the hardware is the same as what I actually bought.

And as far as the "Honda vs Porsche" failed analogy goes... how do you figure a system with the exact same hardware specs as the Mac Pro from it's time makes it a honda? That alone truly shows just how little you actually know.

The only discernible difference between a PC and a Mac is the chassis... and, well. I like my Aerocool Xpredator x3, thanks. The internals are the same. Intel didn't make a "better" Intel Xeon CPU line for Macs. Foxconn didn't make a "better" motherboard line for Macs. Samsung, Micron, etc didn't make "better" ram for Macs. IBM, Seagate, Toshiba didn't make "better" hard drives.... so on and so forth.

edgeprod

How much work do I have to do to get it to run Mac OS X? None. I turn my system on, and my Mac OS X desktop loads. By your own admission, you've wasted a ton of time on that same thing. Your time must not be valuable to you -- mine is.

That's all that matters, really.

You don't seem like a bad guy, but you keep trying to defend your simple mistakes with more and more outlandish stores. It makes you seem petty and a bit ridiculous. If you would have just said something like "I don't understand Macs because I've never owned one, but I think this is what you'd run into, and this is why," you would have gotten a lot further than just throwing out random "OMFG YOU ARE WRONG I KNOW MORE ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER THAN YOU DO" stuff ... especially since you were wrong about so many times, lol.

But, again, to each his or her own.

vdbucks

The only difference you have proven between yourself and I is... While you're calling the customer support hotline asking for help, I already have the answers.

Just think. If people never CHOSE to go in and tinker with hardware, software, or anything else in the world... there wouldn't be PC's, wouldn't be Macs, wouldn't be linux, etc. We'd still be in the dark ages.

I could just as easily have bought a Mac Pro. But why waste money that I don't need to waste?

I like building shit. I like tearing things down and finding out how they work. And as an end result, I can run install and run Windows, Linux or Mac on this machine, natively. The choice is mine. And it's people with minds like mine - well, far greater than mine really, but with the same or similar ideology - that make all these things simple consumers such as yourself enjoy.

Again, while you're on the phone with Apple support, I've already addressed the problem. This is the difference between you and I.

DamianJ

I just still don't understand why these Apple user haters get their vitriol from.

Why do they *care* what OS someone else uses?

CurrentlySober

Its really not about 'Believing...' - Its the words directly out of you're own mouth...

I dont care if you have a PC or a Mac - Nor do I care about what your bank balance is...
Neither effect me, in any way shape or form...

However I dont agree with the 'slaggin off'

CHOICE is a GREAT THING - Mac ? PC? Whatever - I'm just glad we live in a world where we can choose

Peace

__________________

My Dream Gal... XXX

edgeprod

So how would you have fixed a weird video bug in the newest Kext? They introduced the bug as part of a software update, and I wasn't interested in rolling back the Kext to an earlier version.

So you'd invest what -- a few weeks -- in fixing that, when I can just call Apple, and they send me a free video card, just IN CASE it's a bad card and not a software bug? Makes COMPLETE sense, lol.

It's weird that you think I don't do it because I *can't* do it, rather than WHY would I do it? Practice? LOL.


Because, instead, you're wasting your time. I'm working on my next project, and you're dicking around with something that isn't making you money.


That's a weird argument, since I was the Vice President of Business Development for the company that released Python 2.0 -- something you use when you install Linux. What contributions have you made, with all of your tinkering? Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to point out why your assumptions are a bit silly.


No, you really haven't, unless you have access to Apple's code. You aren't going to be fixing a bug in their OS release. It's weird to imply that you would, or could. What you WOULD be doing is going out to the store to go buy a video card. Me? I'm making a phone call, and in 5 minutes, one is in the mail to me, as well as a follow-up from the engineers to make sure the problem is getting fixed, if it's a software problem.

Your arguments are bizarre, I'm really sorry to put it that way.

vdbucks

It takes no more work than loading up the install disk and installing. No more time than it took you to upgrade to 10.7 and 10.8. 1 "extra" step that takes less than a minute to do.

10.6 was a different beast altogether. Simply because back then, the kernel had to be modified. In some cases the audio kexts had to be modified. In some cases EFI strings had to be generated in order to get certain GPUs to function properly. Why go through all of this you ask? Well, because people like me can. We choose to. Maybe it's because we like the challenge. Maybe it's because we refuse to pay more money than something is really worth. Maybe it's because we like the freedom to choose for ourselves regardless of the faux limitations. Maybe it's one of 1,000 different reasons.

But again, if not for the people that actually do these things, technology would simply never advance.

Choosing to dig in and learn about hardware, software, code and the like is simply a choice. It's my hobby. Not to mention, I like to make informed decisions. I don't simply spend more money than something is worth because it has a pretty logo and tech support that I'll never need.

Some people play video games, some people go fishing, some people do this, some people do that. How I choose to spend my free time is no indication of how much or little I value my time.

vdbucks

That's just it. Choice. If I want to pay the actual retail value for the same hardware and then later install an "exclusive" operating system on it that isn't supposed to work, then that is my choice. If I want to play the role of a simple consumer and buy whatever people tell me is better, then that's my choice.

The only thing I am discussing here is the simple fact that Mac hardware is in no way shape or form better than PC hardware. They are the same.

What people choose to do with that knowledge, whether it be outright pretend the facts aren't there, simply ignore them, or accept the facts for what they are, is completely up to them.

Killswitch

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vdbucks

That's pretty contradictory. If there was a bug in the software, they would simply fix the bug as opposed to sending out free video card upgrades to everyone with a problem. But then, you probably believe you're a special customer.

The very few times my system has an issue, I know within 15-30 minutes what that issue is.

If it's hardware related, I take care of it. If it's software related, I submit bug reports to the developers with as much pertinent info as I can provide. If for some off the wall reason I'm unsure, I spend a few minutes researching the symptoms.

I choose to do these things because I'm not simply a consumer.

How you deal with your computer problems is your choice. You rely on others for answers and to fix the problem; I don't. It's nothing more than a key difference in mindsets.

Sorry if I'm not a slave to my business and actually have what is known as free time? Not really sure what your point here is; but if you're saying that all you do is work and have zero free time, zero hobbies... well, I'd rather not be you.

I'm sure you were. Funny though how most people would have actually named the company as opposed to calling it "the company". But hey, if you did then I must ask... what happened?

Sorry friend, I don't buy your supposed "resume" for a split second.. because had you really been that involved at one point in time, not only would you be able to easily accept the facts for what they are when it comes to the hardware; you wouldn't dare question the reasoning behind why people do things like make "hackintosh" possible.

But hey, BeOpen.com didn't go very far now did it? I mean, it's not like they only had 1 actual release under their belt before the devs moved right along. I wonder why that is... I don't claim to know the history but one can make a pretty well informed assumption that for a software team to move away so quickly must indicate poor internals (management).. so even if you did manage to work for them, I'm not sure how it really applies to this conversation, or why you would think that that would have any bearing on your ability to understand why people "tinker". You clearly weren't a developer though, that much is sure.

As for me, I make no outrageous claims of places I probably never really worked for. I simply build things, tear them down to see how they work, or modify them for my needs. I am content with doing these things - whether as just a hobby, or to aid in making informed decisions - simply because, well, I can.

Another difference between you and I. In your first post on the matter of calling apple support, you mentioned nothing about the "issue" being a bug... "I wanted to see if some odd software hiccups were caused by the type of video card I have" doesn't even begin to suggest that you had prior knowledge of a software bug. I cannot help if it you do not provide the proper info.

Although, you're now claiming you knew it was a bug; but if you actually knew it was a bug then you're description would have been completely different. Had you had prior knowledge of a software bug specific to the gpu kexts as you now claim, then it would have made no sense to have to call and ask if a "software hiccup" was a result of the type of video card you have...

Sorry friend, but you seem to be changing things up to fit your needs as opposed to sticking to the facts.

vdbucks

Not once did I ever try to convince people to not buy Macs. I am simply stating and explaining the fact that the hardware inside of a Mac is in no way shape of form any better than the hardware inside of a PC...

It's not my fault lesser informed individuals are making bogus claims that my PC is akin to a "Honda" and their Mac is akin to a "Porsche" when the actual reality is, if a Mac is akin to a "Porsche" then my PC is akin to, quite simply, a different color "Porsche".

Dirty F

Great. You're almost there. Now if Mac users would stop acting like their computer is better than a pc there will be no more fighting. But ofcourse that's not gonna happen as they refuse to admit they paid 1k extra for a logo.

Killswitch

Nobody cares but you about this, so give it up. It's starting to get annoying.

I admit I paid $1k extra for a logo, but it's what I wanted, and that's all that matters to me.

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candyflip

And as mentioned, you can sell you 5 year old iMac for at least $500 right now.

Just took photos and am going to list two of mine tonight.

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Spend you some brain.
Email Me

candyflip

I was wondering how long it would take for edgeprod to mention that he used to own a Viper. That was more than a few years old when he owned it and it's been out of his hands for a few years.

You're not as well off as you think you are dude, but it's fun watching you try.

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Spend you some brain.
Email Me

vdbucks

I am not forcing you to read my posts, am I? You can simply choose not to read them if the facts bother you so much.



And who here has tried to stop you from doing so? I sure haven't