School shooting averted by armed guard.... But that would never work, would it?

[sperbonzo]

Everyone seems to be continuing to harp on the gun thing here, so I may as well jump in with this little story....

Our Left wing friends and commentators all derided suggestions by the NRA to place armed guards at schools.....

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5...-says.html.csp

Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

By KATE BRUMBACK

"Atlanta • A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to get the gun away, police said."


Of course if the armed guard had not been there, and the shooter had killed a whole bunch of kids, it would be a very big story....





.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Everyone seems to be continuing to harp on the gun thing here, so I may as well jump in with this little story....

Our Left wing friends and commentators all derided suggestions by the NRA to place armed guards at schools.....



Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

By KATE BRUMBACK

"Atlanta • A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to get the gun away, police said."


Of course if the armed guard had not been there, and the shooter had killed a whole bunch of kids, it would be a very big story....





.

while this is a relieving situation.. can you really accept that your kids will be going to school where there is guards armed with rifles etc?

there just has to be One misunderstanding and this could hit the fan beyond our imaginations

[12clicks]

dude, stop talking crazy. the point isn't to protect kids, its to disarm the public.

[Dirty F]

Do you have any idea how insane it is that you need to arm guards in schools in your 3rd world country? Seriously, do you? Or do you consider it some kind of freedom?

[sperbonzo]

And one other final word. This very impassioned and well informed speech comes from a Chinese person that came to the US to enjoy the freedom to defend himself and his family from government.... It's a really good speech.



It's really worth 5 minutes to watch it.


Now go ahead and flame away....




.

[MattO]

I'm not against armed guards or cops at the schools, my high school had on officer assigned to it.

But's hard to say what would happen in a situation where the gunperson is there with multiple weapons looking to inflict as much carnage as possible and knows going in that they're not going to come out, versus a confrontation that escalates into a fight between specific people that involves a gun.

A kid who's not there to rampage would more easily give up to a single in-school officer than someone who's there to go postal.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

And one other final word. This very impassioned and well informed speech comes from a Chinese person that came to the US to enjoy the freedom to defend himself and his family from government.... It's a really good speech.



It's really worth 5 minutes to watch it.


Now go ahead and flame away....




.

Ah ofcourse, it really is freedom to have armed guards at your school.

Fucking American imbeciles.

Ever wonder why the rest of the world thinks most of you are totally fucking retarded?
Think about it for a minute.

[dyna mo]

false logic- the article did not include anything about the guard needing or using his firearm to disarm the shooter.

[Rochard]

I have mixed feelings about "armed guards" in schools.

An armed guard at the school only means they can react, and at that point it's far too late. Once an armed guard hears a gunshot it usually means that someone has already been shot or worse. An armed guard means a greatly increased response time. In this case it helped, but the shooter was a fourteen year old boy with a handgun - But if it's a twenty-one year old man with an assault rifle who is moderately trained I doubt a single armed guard would be able to handle the situation.

At the same time, who is paying for this? Our local high school is having budget issues, and one of the ideas they have come up with is cutting ALL after school activities. I'm talking band, football, cheer, basketball, baseball, debate club, science club, everything - and not just for one year, but for the next four years. My kid might go through four years of high school without any of this because the school can't afford a janitor and insurance, yet somehow the school is going to be expected to add in one or two armed guards per school? That's a bit much.

Don't get me wrong; I wouldn't mind seeing a well armed US Marine at the front door of every US school... But armed guards will be prohibitively expensive, will not prevent shootings, and will only increase reaction time - and in some cases might not help at all. Keep in mind they had armed guards at Columbine, and that didn't seem to help at all.

I was thinking about this earlier.... My kid's middle school has some 600 kids that goes to it. How many of those kids have mental issues - and access to fire arms? Scary.

[dyna mo]

it's also way past time we keep making excuses for shitheads shooting people, mental issues? pfft. that's an easy way to just hand wave off the issue. oh, he had mental problems that's why he shot people. bullshit. stop letting the shitheads off the hook. there is no excuse for randomly shooting someone else.

[Dirty F]

Rochard, maybe it's time to move countries if you think every school needs an armed Marine.
The fact that you people consider this something normal is insane. What a fucked up shithole country. Unbelievable.

[dyna mo]

to-do list:

1. take out armed security guard with my wilson combat ttu on a bushmaster pro sniper rmr .223 5.56 armalite base with trijicon aog

2. carry on

[bigluv]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Rochard, maybe it's time to move countries if you think every school needs an armed Marine.
The fact that you people consider this something normal is insane. What a fucked up shithole country. Unbelievable.

He doesn't, or at least, not really. You didn't read.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by bigluv

He doesn't, or at least, not really. You didn't read.

Just the fact that people consider it = 3rd world country.

Hey but as long as you can have your guns right. Because that's sooooo much freedom. The US is suuuuuuch a free country!!

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's also way past time we keep making excuses for shitheads shooting people, mental issues? pfft. that's an easy way to just hand wave off the issue. oh, he had mental problems that's why he shot people. bullshit. stop letting the shitheads off the hook. there is no excuse for randomly shooting someone else.

I don't think they ever get "off the hook." Seems like most of them end up dead. It's almost like the ones who commit mass shootings are suicides - who decide to take as many people whit them as possible.

[arock10]

There was a policeman in every school me and my gf were ever in. Wasn't living in the hood or anything either... This idea is not revolutionary and has been around and implemented forever.

Now for the NRA to use it as the #1 problem solving thing is bullshit, as its already been going on forever in places... This idea is just to avoid any other solutions.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

And one other final word. This very impassioned and well informed speech comes from a Chinese person that came to the US to enjoy the freedom to defend himself and his family from government.... It's a really good speech.



.

Do people really believe the US government is a malevolent force that threatens them...and guns will keep them safe from it? WTF?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

I don't think they ever get "off the hook." Seems like most of them end up dead. It's almost like the ones who commit mass shootings are suicides - who decide to take as many people whit them as possible.

you do know that is obvious information right?

i'll restate, by making the excuse of *mental issues are to blame* we let the actual problem off the hook. the problem is not any 1 shooter and the problem certainly won't be solved if we could just come up with a test to weed out the mental defectives.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by arock10

There was a policeman in every school me and my gf were ever in. Wasn't living in the hood or anything either... This idea is not revolutionary and has been around and implemented forever.

Now for the NRA to use it as the #1 problem solving thing is bullshit, as its already been going on forever in places... This idea is just to avoid any other solutions.

Right. And of course the "other solutions" they want to avoid are any that may mean a lost .05 in profits. That's all.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

you do know that is obvious information right?

i'll restate, by making the excuse of *mental issues are to blame* we let the actual problem off the hook.

Ok, but obviously all the shooters did have mental problems.

I'm not clear though. The actual problem is...?

[NaughtyVisions]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

false logic- the article did not include anything about the guard needing or using his firearm to disarm the shooter.

QFT.

Who's to say that same couldn't have been accomplished by a heroic, unarmed staff member?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Ok, but obviously all the shooters did have mental problems.

I'm not clear though. The actual problem is...?

i don't agree that obviously all the shooters had mental problems. does everyone who commits suicide have mental problems? not necessarily.

the actual problem is......i don't know. i have some guesses though. but these sorts of cases don't have a stereotypical profile. have you watched "murder by proxy: how america went postal"? it profiles workplace shootings and it seems to me most all of those shooters in that doc had zero mental issues and simply lost control due to their environmental circumstances.

do soldiers in war have mental problems? no. i was watching another documentary series on wwii, in one scene, a soldier's letter home recounts how his ship sunk a japanese troop transport ship leaving ~7000 soldiers in the water and in life rafts so his skipper ordered the ship's .50 cal gunners to open fire on those 7000, killing them all. mental defectives or just following orders?

some of the other shooters i attribute to the suicide by cop sort of thinking, these shitstains probably sit on the couch all day watching tv commercials on how to cash in on injuries, honey boo boo and the kardashians, then feel sorry for themselves in a i deserve that too sort of thinking, become suicidal and want to be on television too.

[dyna mo]

here is the youtube for murder by proxy. one of the central messages of this doc was how the USPS covered up the real motives for those workplace shootings by claiming the shooters were all mentally defective when in fact, it was USPS management issues.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Everyone seems to be continuing to harp on the gun thing here, so I may as well jump in with this little story....

Our Left wing friends and commentators all derided suggestions by the NRA to place armed guards at schools.....

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5...-says.html.csp

Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

By KATE BRUMBACK

"Atlanta ? A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to get the gun away, police said."


Of course if the armed guard had not been there, and the shooter had killed a whole bunch of kids, it would be a very big story....





.

No if you actually knew what happened. He shot the kid he wanted to shoot so the guard really didnt do much.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Do people really believe the US government is a malevolent force that threatens them...and guns will keep them safe from it? WTF?

Yes, most gun nutters do. I know, it's hilarious. The rest of the world just laughs and thinks wtf when they read shit like that.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Rochard, maybe it's time to move countries if you think every school needs an armed Marine.
The fact that you people consider this something normal is insane. What a fucked up shithole country. Unbelievable.

I would love to have a US Marine stationed at every US school - not only for security, but to help recruit kids into the Marines.

I mentioned this above I believe - There are some 600 students in my kid's school, and chances are that at least one in six hundred have mental issues. If they have access to firearms, that's a shit storm waiting to happen. Then factor in adults hitting schools and movies and malls, and yeah, it's a problem. Don't tell me it doesn't happen in other countries; Eighty four people were shot and killed on that island in Norway. Fucking Norway of all places!

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i don't agree that obviously all the shooters had mental problems. does everyone who commits suicide have mental problems? not necessarily.

the actual problem is......i don't know. i have some guesses though. but these sorts of cases don't have a stereotypical profile. have you watched "murder by proxy: how america went postal"? it profiles workplace shootings and it seems to me most all of those shooters in that doc had zero mental issues and simply lost control due to their environmental circumstances.

do soldiers in war have mental problems? no. i was watching another documentary series on wwii, in one scene, a soldier's letter home recounts how his ship sunk a japanese troop transport ship leaving ~7000 soldiers in the water and in life rafts so his skipper ordered the ship's .50 cal gunners to open fire on those 7000, killing them all. mental defectives or just following orders?

some of the other shooters i attribute to the suicide by cop sort of thinking, these shitstains probably sit on the couch all day watching tv commercials on how to cash in on injuries, honey boo boo and the kardashians, then feel sorry for themselves in a i deserve that too sort of thinking, become suicidal and want to be on television too.

If a shooter is taking out innocent people for no reason, then yes, the shooter is insane. Even if there is a reason behind it - jealousy, rage - it's fucking insane to kill another person even if you are mad at them for banging your wife or some perceived slight.

Military is a bit different. The case you mentioned is extreme, but in most cases military forces close with and fight the enemy - it's something they are trained to do, and there is a proper reason for it. But then afterwards the mental issues crop up....

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

If a shooter is taking out innocent people for no reason, then yes, the shooter is insane. Even if there is a reason behind it - jealousy, rage - it's fucking insane to kill another person even if you are mad at them for banging your wife or some perceived slight.

Military is a bit different. The case you mentioned is extreme, but in most cases military forces close with and fight the enemy - it's something they are trained to do, and there is a proper reason for it. But then afterwards the mental issues crop up....

I completely, absolutely, unequivocally disagree. you can cling to that if you choose, but refrain from your need for me to think the same.

[Yanks_Todd]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Everyone seems to be continuing to harp on the gun thing here, so I may as well jump in with this little story....

Our Left wing friends and commentators all derided suggestions by the NRA to place armed guards at schools.....

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5...-says.html.csp

Armed guard disarmed teen in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

By KATE BRUMBACK

"Atlanta ? A student opened fire at his middle school Thursday afternoon, wounding a 14-year-old in the neck before an armed officer working at the school was able to get the gun away, police said."


Of course if the armed guard had not been there, and the shooter had killed a whole bunch of kids, it would be a very big story....





.

I don't think the question has ever been would this approach never work, but rather does this approach offer a net benefit to society as a whole. I don't believe it does.

[BlackCrayon]

i think having a cop assigned to the school is a better idea than a questionably trained 'guard'. typically people in these jobs failed out of cop school or something similar. the idea of community policing within a school where people feel safe to talk to the cops would probably prevent some shootings from taking place at all.

[Yanks_Todd]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Yes, most gun nutters do. I know, it's hilarious. The rest of the world just laughs and thinks wtf when they read shit like that.

“As long as there’s someone like Earl out there with a gun and ammunition, we are unable to carry out our attack on America,” said Maxwell Caufield, a covert military leader in charge of the operation to turn the country into an authoritarian, one-party state wherein the basic rights of citizens are stripped away in order to create total government control. “Try as we did to spread our distorted gun control propaganda—claiming that it would protect innocent people across the country from needless deaths—the man just wouldn’t bite. There is simply nothing we can do about Earl and his gun, damn him.”


http://www.theonion.com/articles/62y...n-natio,30984/

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

you do know that is obvious information right?

i'll restate, by making the excuse of *mental issues are to blame* we let the actual problem off the hook. the problem is not any 1 shooter and the problem certainly won't be solved if we could just come up with a test to weed out the mental defectives.

however, creating a 'mental health registry' might bring to light just how many people suffer from some form of 'mental health issue'

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

however, creating a 'mental health registry' might bring to light just how many people suffer from some form of 'mental health issue'

well, that's an entirely different issue, i'm not sure i want a government litmus test for being able to function based on what a group of elite psychologists deem is socially acceptable or not.


i'm sure it would point out the hitlers of the world but i'd wager it would also pick out the picassos and beethovens while waxing over other important factors.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I completely, absolutely, unequivocally disagree. you can cling to that if you choose, but refrain from your need for me to think the same.

You have a twenty year old man who walked into a grade school and shot twenty six and seven year old kids for no reason at all... If that's not insane, I don't know what is.

[Yanks_Todd]

Originally Posted by tony286

No if you actually knew what happened. He shot the kid he wanted to shoot so the guard really didnt do much.

True and it really doesn't say how the weapon helped, he didn't use it, did he point it at him or did he just take the kid down. I would have to say this story isn't really a strong example.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

well, that's an entirely different issue, i'm not sure i want a government litmus test for being able to function based on what a group of elite psychologists deem is socially acceptable or not.


i'm sure it would point out the hitlers of the world but i'd wager it would also pick out the picassos and beethovens while waxing over other important factors.

with the history of 'mental health' the only people i feel should really be 'reviewed' are the elite psychologists themselves

Vancouver is especially bad for it, and seems like it still goes on today

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

with the history of 'mental health' the only people i feel should really be 'reviewed' are the elite psychologists themselves

Vancouver is especially bad for it, and seems like it still goes on today

exfuckingactly! i really think you are on the right track with this. it just seems nutty to me that we let a subset group of elitists define terms such as insanity. ugh.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have a twenty year old man who walked into a grade school and shot twenty six and seven year old kids for no reason at all... If that's not insane, I don't know what is.

this may be part of the problem. insanity must include a pattern as a component of the diagnosis, whether a behavioral pattern or cognitive pattern. spree shooters do not have patterns.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by arock10

There was a policeman in every school me and my gf were ever in. Wasn't living in the hood or anything either... This idea is not revolutionary and has been around and implemented forever.

Now for the NRA to use it as the #1 problem solving thing is bullshit, as its already been going on forever in places... This idea is just to avoid any other solutions.

Me too. I was not aware that they had taken the police out of the schools.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by MattO

I'm not against armed guards or cops at the schools, my high school had on officer assigned to it.

But's hard to say what would happen in a situation where the gunperson is there with multiple weapons looking to inflict as much carnage as possible and knows going in that they're not going to come out, versus a confrontation that escalates into a fight between specific people that involves a gun.

A kid who's not there to rampage would more easily give up to a single in-school officer than someone who's there to go postal.

Correct, BUT
If a guard / officer is Not there, you are just waiting for the police to arrive, while the killings continue.

[KillerK]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i think having a cop assigned to the school is a better idea than a questionably trained 'guard'. typically people in these jobs failed out of cop school or something similar. the idea of community policing within a school where people feel safe to talk to the cops would probably prevent some shootings from taking place at all.

Are the cops at the schools the cops who are fails? Otherwise they would be out working somewhere else?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Correct, BUT
If a guard / officer is Not there, you are just waiting for the police to arrive, while the killings continue.

Maybe - depends on the intentions of the shooter. If the shooter is well armed and has a lot of ammo, and his intention is to kill as many people as possible... The armed guard MIGHT be able to prevent a lot of people from being killed. On the other hand if it's a fourteen year old kid who pulls his gun out because he's mad at one person during an argument then it will already be over before the armed guard gets there.

[CyberHustler]

And still, with all the guns we have, the vast majority of Americans will never experience a schoool shooting.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I have mixed feelings about "armed guards" in schools.

An armed guard at the school only means they can react, and at that point it's far too late. Once an armed guard hears a gunshot it usually means that someone has already been shot or worse. An armed guard means a greatly increased response time. In this case it helped, but the shooter was a fourteen year old boy with a handgun - But if it's a twenty-one year old man with an assault rifle who is moderately trained I doubt a single armed guard would be able to handle the situation.

At the same time, who is paying for this? Our local high school is having budget issues, and one of the ideas they have come up with is cutting ALL after school activities. I'm talking band, football, cheer, basketball, baseball, debate club, science club, everything - and not just for one year, but for the next four years. My kid might go through four years of high school without any of this because the school can't afford a janitor and insurance, yet somehow the school is going to be expected to add in one or two armed guards per school? That's a bit much.

Don't get me wrong; I wouldn't mind seeing a well armed US Marine at the front door of every US school... But armed guards will be prohibitively expensive, will not prevent shootings, and will only increase reaction time - and in some cases might not help at all. Keep in mind they had armed guards at Columbine, and that didn't seem to help at all.

I was thinking about this earlier.... My kid's middle school has some 600 kids that goes to it. How many of those kids have mental issues - and access to fire arms? Scary.

It is to Late?????
Humm
So once the first kid is shot, no need to try to stop the shooter for the rest???
Just wait 20 minutes for the police??
Alright..... Not
Glad my kids do not go to school where yours do.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Maybe - depends on the intentions of the shooter. If the shooter is well armed and has a lot of ammo, and his intention is to kill as many people as possible... The armed guard MIGHT be able to prevent a lot of people from being killed. On the other hand if it's a fourteen year old kid who pulls his gun out because he's mad at one person during an argument then it will already be over before the armed guard gets there.

RIGHT,
But again why do you NOT want a guard?
See you are saying you do not want a guard (mixed emotions on this thread) I believe you said no armed guards.

I would rather have a MIGHT than a NOT Waiting on Police to file the report.

Duh, if it is to just kill one Person, you will Not ever stop that...
Well check out the Movie Equilibrium
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

[slapass]

Originally Posted by KillerK

Are the cops at the schools the cops who are fails? Otherwise they would be out working somewhere else?

The schools are where the criminals are. Check the stats. 15 to 21 year old males are like 80% of all crime.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i think having a cop assigned to the school is a better idea than a questionably trained 'guard'. typically people in these jobs failed out of cop school or something similar. the idea of community policing within a school where people feel safe to talk to the cops would probably prevent some shootings from taking place at all.

Exactly..

We setup sub Stations in an Office / Room for the Beat officers to hang out, do paper work and so on. This is a place where the Officers can go inside the schools, and keep the presence of police on school grounds without having to pay them.

The schools also have security guards, not armed, since we have police on school grounds at all times. The school also from time to time, depending on the event and or what other school the sporting event might be, hire off duty police to help with security.

[JP-pornshooter]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Rochard, maybe it's time to move countries if you think every school needs an armed Marine.
The fact that you people consider this something normal is insane. What a fucked up shithole country. Unbelievable.

i am not against all guns, but i am against assault type rifles and high capacity mags.

but i am not 100% against the idea of having armed guards at our schools.
at first it sounds terrifying but it is a new world we live in.
imagine if the al queda decide to randomly hit our kids schools?
these guys are not going to stop being terrorists..
in Israel all youngsters are required to be in the military for 24months? and during that time they have their rifle on them 24/7. you go on a bus and there are regular people who are in the uniform going home to see their family or whatever, and they are fully armed.
Nobody and I mean nobody fucks around..
Military state 3rd world possible, BUT that is the world we are living in, like it or not.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

while this is a relieving situation.. can you really accept that your kids will be going to school where there is guards armed with rifles etc?

there just has to be One misunderstanding and this could hit the fan beyond our imaginations

why not? my kid went to school where the black kids were armed...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

It is to Late?????
Humm
So once the first kid is shot, no need to try to stop the shooter for the rest???
Just wait 20 minutes for the police??
Alright..... Not
Glad my kids do not go to school where yours do.

Yes, once a shooter pulls out a firearm and shoots and perhaps kills a person it is in fact too late. Someone has been shot, someone has potentially been killed, and all the security guard can do is react. I'm not saying wait twenty minutes for the police, but an armed guard does not protect the first kid from being shot. An armed guard does not mean other people will not be shot, as was the case in the Columbine school shooting.