[OMG Biz Thread] Post your reasons why sales are shrinking

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the same thing is happening to the porn industry that happened to the music industry years ago. When people started downloading music for free the music industry starting hurting pretty bad. What did the music industry do to combat this? They started suing left and right and made it harder and harder for people to illegally share music. It didn't eradicate all of pirating but it took care of the major violators (Napster, Kazaa, Limewire) and now most people just buy their music again via iTunes. Perhaps it's time that the adult industry follow suit and starts going after the big tube sites?

you bring up great points. true, music companies sued, but that didnt do shit. napster died, but the freeloaders are as big as ever, just on new sites. & despite the growing freeloader community, apple launched itunes, & became one of the top music retailers. Why? because they provided something record companies failed to provide, a song for a buck instead of 1 good song & 12 useless ones for 18 bucks. point being, there is still a market for music despite freesites, its just the pie is smaller.

i dont think the answer is to sue tubes. this is like what apple is doing, trying to stop samsung by suing them over patents on obvious features. patent abuse is a whole nother topic, but companies that are trying to protect their fiefdom, stifle change engage in this tactic.

the paysite will NEVER be like 1999. just like selling ICBMs will NEVER be like 1961, & selling music CDs will never be like 1989. Just gotta understand shifts in the market & work with them instead of fight them.

[tfs]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

1)Search engines traffic dominated by tubes

Bam! Not even real tubes. Tubes that scrape content from other tubes and fill their pages with virus and malware infested Plugruch links are what Google thinks are high-quality sites now.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

you bring up great points. true, music companies sued, but that didnt do shit.

I disagree. If I recall, it did a great deal. They got law enforcement involved and when people were threatened with fines and jail time these music-swapping sites vanished rather quickly. It's not nearly as easy to trade music these days. I can't help but feel if tube sites vanished sales would increase for everyone. I'm not saying things would suddenly revert to how they were years ago but I have little doubt that they'd at least increase.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

the porn industry itself, is cyclical. magazines used to sell like hotcakes in the 70s, 80s, thats how hef & gucionne made their fortunes. DVD had a heyday, & joe francis, stagliano, vivid, made millions. Now tubes are having their time in the sun, the manwin people are the winners. But last time i checked, score is still selling mags, making DVDs, selling memberships, & likely has tube content or tubes. People who stay stuck in a technology that comes & goes, & cannot evolve with tech, fade away. Those who see the changes, & change with them, find new cheese.

This doesn't really have much to do with technology in my opinion.
Tube sites aren't doing anything "technologically" that Claudia Marie's paysite doesn't do. (CM's site runs on mech bunny)

I could see the point you're making if suddenly a new technology (like holographic porn or full sensory porn) came around...or a different delivery method was available and paysites didn't take advantage of it.

But that's not what's happening here.

Tube sites are using the same "Technology" as we do (tube script and the internet).

Stealing and giving everything away in mass volume to make some money off of advertising spots selling cam sites isn't "technology". It's simply devaluing the actual PORN.

Yeah, I know that obsolete things like were mentioned (horse and buggy) are by the very definition of "obsolete" a very big "downward curve" lol

But porn isn't "obsolete".
The problem is, it's devalued. So selling the actual PORN itself (you know, the golden goose that made so many people rich) is being destroyed by the tube sites full of complete scenes and even whole members areas (and of course file lockers, bit torrents, etc.)

It isn't like somebody came along with a great new technology to SELL PORN and it suddenly rendered paysites obsolete.
Nope.

Even the people who come on here trying to claim they make great sales with tube sites are basing their claims on PAYSITE SALES.

No paysites aren't obsolete. They are just being destroyed by having their "product" given away for free.

There should be no "downward curve" for porn. Everyday new people turn 18 and can perform in porn. Everyday a person gets their first bank account and credit card. Everyday the number of people online with computers and mobile devices and gaming stations grows (it shocked me to see how much traffic Claudia Marie's site gets from Playstations. lol)

It went up, up, and up...until the perfect storm hit: The explosion of tubes and pirate sites coupled with a bad economy.

Yeah, people don't want to spend money on porn..but the ones with credit cards would. They spend money every day going to movie theaters to watch the latest Hollywood movie.
But if you give away an impulse buy (like porn) for free? Forget about it.

Only a few of us are still able to make good money. And that's only by "adapting" (for me, it's focusing on interaction and things that can't be stolen).
But it sure does suck to realize that the foundation of all this (the actual PORN) is so devalued.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

I disagree. If I recall, it did a great deal. They got law enforcement involved and when people were threatened with fines and jail time these music-swapping sites vanished rather quickly. It's not nearly as easy to trade music these days. I can't help but feel if tube sites vanished sales would increase for everyone. I'm not saying things would suddenly revert to how they were years ago but I have little doubt that they'd at least increase.

all those suits accomplished was sick hundred thousand dollar fines on a handful of college students. 99.9% of freeloaders are still freeloading away.

the only reason law enforcement got involved was because disney & time warner fed lobby money to the right people. Jonny law is not gonna do jack shit for the porn biz, even if they do get greased.

a good question you should ask is...why dont the big porn producers sue? whats holding them back?

yeah if tubes went down the tubes, there would be a return of some sales. not all, because there are lots of piracy sites to turn to. Hard to wean freefolk off the free. Best thing to do is do your best for the people still willing to pay. They will always be there, just not in numbers that existed when the web was 5 years old.

[slapass]

We are all surfers after the work day so we know why people aren't paying. Does anyone log into the content area of a paysite or do you just go to a tube?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Perhaps it's time that the adult industry follow suit and starts going after the big tube sites?

Many of the people in adult are pretty dumb. From the top levels where the CEO of the largest adult company is now facing tax evasion charges to the lower levels where most affiliates can't see the long term. There is little chance of this happening now although it could have happened circa-2007 or 2008 if the industry weren't filled with idiots.

Most are too stupid to realize that for every dollar they make now they could have made $10-$100 more if they played their cards right. This is true for the upper end of the industry all the way to the very bottom.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

I disagree. If I recall, it did a great deal. They got law enforcement involved and when people were threatened with fines and jail time these music-swapping sites vanished rather quickly.

Um, you are living on earth, right?

The MPAA and RIAA litigation did nothing but increasing piracy by publicising how easy it is to pirate music to all and sundry.

This is why they stopped all of that end user litigation.

You don't need the music swapping sites like napster when you've got torrents, and usenet and file lockers

Just google any album you like with .mp3 in the search tag. Hey presto. Instant piracy.

What happened was the music industry tried to keep selling shit to people they didn't want. People wanted to buy one track for a buck. iTunes launched, and people did buy one track for a buck. Many, many times over.

[Joshua G]

robbie. stealing is a part of business conflict & evolution. you are correct in that taking someones hard work & giving it away devalues it. There are allegedly laws in place to protect copyright, but obviously they are ineffective & only useful to the wealthy, & even then its questionable what return on the legal expense is.

some very successful people invented nothing, stole someone elses ideas & made bank. Bill gates is the king of all thieves, he never invented anything, not windows, not the browser, nothing. google is the biggest thief on the web. They didnt invent search, they just did it best & now they are the biggest helper of the piracy business. They fight against congressional efforts to curb piracy, like SOPA.

you know tech very well. piracy is a fact of computer technology, because anything digital can be copied & widely distributed for free. lately i been watching as adobe & microsoft are now selling their retail software on a subscription basis, because their software is easily copied & given away. If these giant billion dollar companies cant stop piracy, then you have to stop fighting & accept the realities of the techology. You are recognizing change by bringing greater interactivity to your customers.

i would prefer a piracy free world but i see it is not gonna happen. People have to look at the market & decide how best to monetize it based on the reality of today.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Um, you are living on earth, right?

The MPAA and RIAA litigation did nothing but increasing piracy by publicising how easy it is to pirate music to all and sundry.

Again, I disagree.

http://mashable.com/2011/03/24/inter...-piracy-study/

Most people aren't tech-savvy enough to use torrents, file lockers, or any of that stuff. When programs like Napster, Kazaa, and Limewire were taken down most resorted to just buying music again. I know a ton of people who used to download music all the time using those programs and obviously don't anymore since they no longer exist. Now they just shell out money for music since they don't understand that you can still find all of that music for free if you search hard enough. The casual user isn't going to bother learning about torrents and all that stuff.

Just sayin'.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by slapass

We are all surfers after the work day so we know why people aren't paying. Does anyone log into the content area of a paysite or do you just go to a tube?

You said it, man. Even I visit tube sites occasionally, as shamed as I am to admit it. I'm sure I'm not the only one!

[wehateporn]

When promoting softcore, keep the full nudity in the members area, the nudity is what the softcore surfer will buy.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

I disagree. If I recall, it did a great deal. They got law enforcement involved and when people were threatened with fines and jail time these music-swapping sites vanished rather quickly. It's not nearly as easy to trade music these days. I can't help but feel if tube sites vanished sales would increase for everyone. I'm not saying things would suddenly revert to how they were years ago but I have little doubt that they'd at least increase.

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Again, I disagree.

http://mashable.com/2011/03/24/inter...-piracy-study/

Most people aren't tech-savvy enough to use torrents, file lockers, or any of that stuff. When programs like Napster, Kazaa, and Limewire were taken down most resorted to just buying music again. I know a ton of people who used to download music all the time using those programs and obviously don't anymore since they no longer exist. Now they just shell out money for music since they don't understand that you can still find all of that music for free if you search hard enough. The casual user isn't going to bother learning about torrents and all that stuff.

Just sayin'.

FreeYoutubeToMP3Converter - rips everything and anything you want from YT. Just as easy...if not easier...than P2P/bit-torrents.

Yeah, all those law enforcement agencies really had an effect.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

FreeYoutubeToMP3Converter - rips everything and anything you want from YT. Just as easy...if not easier...than P2P/bit-torrents.

Yeah, all those law enforcement agencies really had an effect.

Sure, a lot of people know about that... but a lot of people don't.

[epitome]

Instead of discussing why they're down for some people for the 1000th time wouldn't it be more productive to talk about how to get them up?

How many affiliates maintain niche mailing lists (outside of dating)?

[DWB]

Originally Posted by JoshGirls Josh

a good question you should ask is...why dont the big porn producers sue? whats holding them back?

The answer to that question should be obvious by now.

[Biggy]

1. Surfers on piracy sites will never buy a porn site. They aren't part of the target market and most of these people are pretty advanced. So yes, piracy is big, but piracy also has existed for the last 10 years in a major major way, so when you compare 10 years ago to today, I think it would be hard pressed to say piracy plays a bigger role today than it did 10 years ago, although I don't have the data. If there's a will there is a way.

2. Big porn companies should sue piracy businesses. There is actual and real recourse (dollars and cents) when you know what you are doing. The reason most don't is because they don't register their copyrights properly. They don't do this because they are lazy and in my opinion, stupid. I have recently created threads on this topic (registration of copyrights), that got barely any views or replies - no one seemed to care which drives the point home.

3. If sales are shrinking as a whole, it's because companies aren't evolving to provide a value proposition to the customer that's better than a tube. Too many webmasters do the same thing they were doing even 3 years ago. Tube sites are great for quantity, they aren't great for quality. Making a tube and tossing up videos is easy. Making a quality product worth paying for is much more difficult.

To the people who "want to do something about it": It's simple, people and companies can still grow. Build a product that an audience wants, and you will see growth. Simple to read it, much harder to execute it. As we say in my office, water finds its level.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Biggy

So yes, piracy is big, but piracy also has existed for the last 10 years in a major major way, so when you compare 10 years ago to today, I think it would be hard pressed to say piracy plays a bigger role today than it did 10 years ago

I completely and totally disagree with that.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Biggy

2. Big porn companies should sue piracy businesses. There is actual and real recourse (dollars and cents) when you know what you are doing. The reason most don't is because they don't register their copyrights properly. They don't do this because they are lazy and in my opinion, stupid. I have recently created threads on this topic (registration of copyrights), that got barely any views or replies - no one seemed to care which drives the point home.

Just sat down with attorneys in Vegas at the Internext Show. Not one of them said I could successfully sue any pirate site that honors a DMCA request.

And as anyone with skin in the game knows...the DMCA law is "whack-a-mole" and completely ineffective.

Been discussing trademark laws as well. One attorney thinks it will work and circumvent copyright...and others don't think it will.

None of them are ready to bring lawsuits against any pirate site.

And yes, I have registered copyrights on my videos. And yes I have Claudia-Marie trademarked. None of it matters under current law as long as it's "user uploaded" and they respond to DMCA (as explained to me by adult biz attorneys)

[Cystomatic]

Originally Posted by epitome

Instead of discussing why they're down for some people for the 1000th time wouldn't it be more productive to talk about how to get them up?

How many affiliates maintain niche mailing lists (outside of dating)?

One is supposed to know what the problem is first, before fixing it.

Which is what am basically doing right now, am putting together a huge list of reasons and factors that have caused the industry to decline. And then think of a solution to those problems

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by DWB

The answer to that question should be obvious by now.

sure is. i was hoping the some guy dude would think it through, & the light bulb would hit.

[adultmobile]

This thread misses Paul Markham so much.

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just sat down with attorneys in Vegas at the Internext Show. Not one of them said I could successfully sue any pirate site that honors a DMCA request.

And as anyone with skin in the game knows...the DMCA law is "whack-a-mole" and completely ineffective.

And yes, I have registered copyrights on my videos. And yes I have Claudia-Marie trademarked. None of it matters under current law as long as it's "user uploaded" and they respond to DMCA (as explained to me by adult biz attorneys)

Get new lawyers, and just because someone has a law degree doesn't mean they are good. Also, many of the biggest adult lawyers now count large tubes as their clients. Keep that in mind. If the infringement is so widespread and obvious on their site, than you haven't done the research to put the case together besides the simple "they respond to DMCA takedowns". Many piracy sites "respond to DMCA", but it is still pretty fucking obvious their site is built on piracy. You're telling me if they are a pirate, and its obvious they are a pirate, you won't be able to produce evidence that shows they are a pirate? You build your case around that.

I didn't say it was easy, but it is most certainly possible. To say it can't be done is simply false, it's just that you and many others haven't figured it out yet.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Biggy

Get new lawyers, and just because someone has a law degree doesn't mean they are good. Also, many of the biggest adult lawyers now count large tubes as their clients. Keep that in mind. If the infringement is so widespread and obvious on their site, than you haven't done the research to put the case together besides the simple "they respond to DMCA takedowns". Many piracy sites "respond to DMCA", but it is still pretty fucking obvious their site is built on piracy. You're telling me if they are a pirate, and its obvious they are a pirate, you won't be able to produce evidence that shows they are a pirate? You build your case around that.

I didn't say it was easy, but it is most certainly possible. To say it can't be done is simply false, it's just that you and many others haven't figured it out yet.

Okay...So you're gonna tell me that the leading attorneys in adult entertainment need to come to GFY to learn the law?

Brother...I don't have a clue what you do, but unless you have skin in the game and have talked to attorneys about this yourself...then you are speaking from a position of inexperience with this particular matter.

You don't have a clue. And if you think you do...then please, please enlighten all of us and get an attorney on here that agrees with your armchair quarterbacking.

To sit there and think that hundreds of us haven't already tried to hire attorneys to do the "lawsuit" route in a million different ways back when this whole thing first started is just ludicrous.

If I could do what you are suggesting...I would have already done it a long time ago and retired off all the money I would have won in court. lol

[DamianJ]

How is it the gayers sue and win all the time and the straight guys can't?

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

How is it the gayers sue and win all the time and the straight guys can't?

A very good question indeed.

I suspect because no one wants to "gay it up" in court so they settle. LOL

What needs to happen on a POLITICAL level (and THIS is what terrifies "porn valley" et al) is Age Verification needs to be re-implemented BY LAW.

So when you visit even a free tube site you must enter a CC to verify your age. This would instantly reduce the tubes traffic to what? .02%? LOL If Mothers Against Porn and Stop Hurting Children or any other such organization (I made those two up LOL) started lobbying politicians and do ad campaigns on this issue the laws would change and so would the Internet.

Of course, we now live in a world where you have Viagra commercials showing on TV at all times of the day; I remember when they would only show penis pill ads on tv (or condom ads for that matter) after 10 pm. So who knows what kind of traction a political campaign against "free pron" would do but honestly I think it's about the only thing (at this point) that might work. Maybe.

I mean where's the fucking OUTRAGE non-porn people? Shit, back in the eighties people were freaking about heavy metal LYRICS. And now any 12 year old with a computer screen (or handheld device) can type in 'free porn' and see the most disgusting shit right there at the dinner table? At school? At CHURCH??? Mom and dad hello?

Really, I sell porn and it offends me, all this endless, non-stop ACCESS. And I don't have kids. LOL

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

A very good question indeed.

That is a great question. And I have no idea how they do it.

I know most of the big name attorneys in this biz and honestly a lot of them are more geared towards First Amendment rights because that was always the big battle the adult industry had with the govt. for decades.

I would THINK that some of these attorneys would indeed take a look at how the big gay companies were able to sue over copyright infringement and win. And that they would then use that knowledge to do the same thing with straight porn.

But for some reason that I am completely ignorant of...they don't and won't.

Anyone of you who were at the legal seminar at Internext this year (or the last 4 years) can attest to what I am saying.

It's always the top lawyers in the biz telling all of us that we basically can't do jack shit.

And common sense tells me that they are telling the truth because they would be making a lot of money from all the lawsuits if it were possible.

And then...we all read about the big gay companies winning millions of dollars and it makes me scratch my head.

There has to be more to it than just copyright infringement. Must be more to the story on those lawsuits that somehow doesn't apply to what is happening in straight porn? Maybe the gay pirate sites didn't respond to DMCA notices or something?

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That is a great question. And I have no idea how they do it.

I know most of the big name attorneys in this biz and honestly a lot of them are more geared towards First Amendment rights because that was always the big battle the adult industry had with the govt. for decades.

I would THINK that some of these attorneys would indeed take a look at how the big gay companies were able to sue over copyright infringement and win. And that they would then use that knowledge to do the same thing with straight porn.

But for some reason that I am completely ignorant of...they don't and won't.

Anyone of you who were at the legal seminar at Internext this year (or the last 4 years) can attest to what I am saying.

It's always the top lawyers in the biz telling all of us that we basically can't do jack shit.

And common sense tells me that they are telling the truth because they would be making a lot of money from all the lawsuits if it were possible.

And then...we all read about the big gay companies winning millions of dollars and it makes me scratch my head.

There has to be more to it than just copyright infringement. Must be more to the story on those lawsuits that somehow doesn't apply to what is happening in straight porn? Maybe the gay pirate sites didn't respond to DMCA notices or something?

why dont you go back and re-read my replies, instead of insulting people when they explicitly gave you the answer.

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

How is it the gayers sue and win all the time and the straight guys can't?

has nothing to do with differences in content. some people have it figured out, others haven't. it is possible to enforce copyrights and it isn't rocket science. it just takes hard work, planning, and execution.

most people don't understand the law - including the infringers. most people don't know how to craft a proper legal strategy. most people, dont have the work ethic, the resources, or the mental power to get it done. most people dont understand that even if a site is offshore, there is still big consequences here in the US which will impact them dramatically.

if a guy is running a site, and his site is obviously backboning a lot of piracy, evidence should exist somewhere that shows the owner is complicit with it and is contributing to it. DMCA is not a save your ass, DMCA is a protection for legitimate site owners, not for illegitimate site owners. its on you to prove the site is illegitimate, and therefore doesn't even get the benefit of DMCA protection.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Biggy

why dont you go back and re-read my replies, instead of insulting people when they explicitly gave you the answer.

I didn't intend to insult you. Sorry for that.
It's just that I get pissed off when people who aren't dealing with this everyday assume they know what I am thinking and doing.

And again...your reply didn't say HOW to do anything. I already told you...the big pirate sites respond to DMCA. You can not sue them for copyright infringement when it's "user uploaded" and they respond.

Do I think that what you said makes perfect common sense? Yes I do. I agree with your line of thinking 100%.

But it doesn't work legally. At least not yet.

It's my belief that the DMCA law is very antiquated and needs to be rewritten to reflect modern technology.

But as you and I both know...the govt. has wanted to put the porn industry out of business for decades now. It always failed because of the first amendment to the Constitution.

But what the govt. could not do...piracy IS doing. So my belief is that the govt. is enjoying watching the dismantling of our industry and has no intention on fixing the DMCA laws.

[AdultPornMasta]

Originally Posted by Cystomatic

Post your top reasons why the sales are shrinking.

Here's mine:
1. Piracy. Why would I pay for a damn movie when I can get it for free?
2. Payments. It's too hard for users to pay, due to all the scams in the past, do people really trust us with their credit cards? (Something a friend told me a time ago, he just doesn't trust them with his sensitive data).


Note: I do know that the adult industry is FAR from dead, but we all have to agree that sales are shrinking and it's not as good as back in the day.

Lack of intelligent and effective promotion on the part of affiliates who are scared shitless of both Google and violating the TOS of the sponsors who have things set so tight that putting up a yard sign would be about as good as what the sponsors allow for promotion techniques.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

I mean where's the fucking OUTRAGE non-porn people? Shit, back in the eighties people were freaking about heavy metal LYRICS. And now any 12 year old with a computer screen (or handheld device) can type in 'free porn' and see the most disgusting shit right there at the dinner table? At school? At CHURCH??? Mom and dad hello?

Really, I sell porn and it offends me, all this endless, non-stop ACCESS. And I don't have kids. LOL

Man, that's such a good point. It's crazy how much society's changed in the last twenty or thirty years alone. Wow.

[AdultPornMasta]

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

A very good question indeed.

I suspect because no one wants to "gay it up" in court so they settle. LOL

What needs to happen on a POLITICAL level (and THIS is what terrifies "porn valley" et al) is Age Verification needs to be re-implemented BY LAW.

So when you visit even a free tube site you must enter a CC to verify your age. This would instantly reduce the tubes traffic to what? .02%? LOL If Mothers Against Porn and Stop Hurting Children or any other such organization (I made those two up LOL) started lobbying politicians and do ad campaigns on this issue the laws would change and so would the Internet.

Of course, we now live in a world where you have Viagra commercials showing on TV at all times of the day; I remember when they would only show penis pill ads on tv (or condom ads for that matter) after 10 pm. So who knows what kind of traction a political campaign against "free pron" would do but honestly I think it's about the only thing (at this point) that might work. Maybe.

I mean where's the fucking OUTRAGE non-porn people? Shit, back in the eighties people were freaking about heavy metal LYRICS. And now any 12 year old with a computer screen (or handheld device) can type in 'free porn' and see the most disgusting shit right there at the dinner table? At school? At CHURCH??? Mom and dad hello?

Really, I sell porn and it offends me, all this endless, non-stop ACCESS. And I don't have kids. LOL

Oh, crap!

Any 13-year old can get a debit card with fake info in any number of ways and if you didn't know that, you know it now.

Even GreenDot can be faked out if the kid uses Daddy's info and has the card sent to another address, which GD and many others will do.

Not to mention the use of "gift cards" which function as credit cards up to their limit and which cards have no info, so the adolescent perp can plug in any info he/she desires.

Try again!

[SomeCreep]

Tube sites.

[Best-In-BC]

Originally Posted by vvvvv

Google's algos killed a lot of stuff that used to be golden.

Bingo, its the main reason, with tubes on top, everything else is fear mongering :D

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by AdultPornMasta

Oh, crap!

Any 13-year old can get a debit card with fake info in any number of ways and if you didn't know that, you know it now.

Even GreenDot can be faked out if the kid uses Daddy's info and has the card sent to another address, which GD and many others will do.

Not to mention the use of "gift cards" which function as credit cards up to their limit and which cards have no info, so the adolescent perp can plug in any info he/she desires.

Try again!

I admit there will always be those industrious few kids who will do exactly what you say and go to whatever extreme they have to and get inside a Member's Area. Password-sharing alone would skyrocket.

But again, you gotta try SOMEthing. And the lack of outrage over how EASY and abundant the access to porn is just amazes me.

I blame the The Starr Report back in 1998, when that graphic porn novel was released on this fledgling thing called the "world wide web". Nothing was ever the same after that, the floodgates were OPEN man! Viagra commercials at fucking 10:00 am! "If you have erectile dysfunction..." NO motherfucker! I've got no-caffiene-yet dysfunction and don't want to think about limp (or hard) COCKS at the moment.

Really, I'm left speechless at the lack of outrage by "parents".

[xXXtesy10]

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just sat down with attorneys in Vegas at the Internext Show. Not one of them said I could successfully sue any pirate site that honors a DMCA request.

I thought nobody can pirate your content and doesn't?

Anyway, if you're using a third party DMCA service you'll quickly discover that there is not a single site out there that is 100% DMCA compliant. What you do with that information is an entirely different thing.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by epitome

I thought nobody can pirate your content and doesn't?

Nope. I said they can not download my protected stream. I also said I had lots of older scenes that were downloaded before I implemented that. I also said that they can screen record (though I have their IP address and username on the vid so it does discourage that to a great extent).
And I also explained (over and over and over) that I do give a small resolution/low bit rate version that they CAN download (it's the version on the mobile site anyway that can't be streamed or protected)

Also I am one of the first clients of Remove Your Content and am very, very aware of who does and doesn't respond to DMCA

I keep mine down to a dull roar. What do you do for Stand Ahead's stuff?

[nikki99]

too many stupid people on gfy is the reason

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

2.) Too many shitty sites - Too many websites out there, most of which suck. Traffic's spread too thin.

This ....

"Hey check out my new site! Same as every other site out there!" X 100

[Zester]

I wonder if this thread will produce a "what can be done" list

[PromoterX]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Perhaps it's time that the adult industry follow suit and starts going after the big tube sites?

A lot of big programs are behind these "big" tube sites. That isn't going to happen. You guys keep spreading this propaganda that tube sites are the end of the world and the reason for lower sales, but to be honest, have you ever found a HD quality full length video on a tube site? Neither have I and they just don't exist.

File lockers are the biggest issue - that's where the money is going. These guys pay what... $15 a month or more and download Terabytes of full length movies at full cable speed. I know in my area, that can mean up to 100Mb/sec. Anything released within 30 days is easily cataloged and ready for download via forums.

I might want to put on my tin foil hat for a second and think that maybe a program might have their own file locker service running with their own forum posting links to their own content, which hey, a movie here or there being downloaded at 70K-150K/sec. no big deal - would take a downloader 1-2 hours to download a full length HD quality movie, but hey, still getting $15-$30 per month to download unlimited where someone can download it in 10 minutes.

Kind of similar to the old "password sharing" sites of old - when webmasters would "leak" a L/P that gave access for 15 minutes and then lock out. Enough to maybe get a picture set or two, but not enough to get a full length video.

If your going to win the war against porn piracy, go where the money is.... file lockers.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Zester

I wonder if this thread will produce a "what can be done" list

Well....there seems to be no concensus on what's wrong.

From my point of view...people do not want to pay for porn when it's already free. It's NOT bottled water and the free porn works just as good for jacking off (which is the only thing porn is actually used for) as buying a membership.

Now the other people on here seem to think it's because websites just aren't "good" enough.
I would say that Naughty America is a perfect example of why they are wrong. NA shoots some of the best content in the business, and they have NEVER "banged" cards or did anything "shady".
But their stuff is pirated everywhere and their latest scenes are available for free within minutes of release.
Can't make a sale to them to save my soul anymore.

But...let's pretend that facts don't exist and that these people are correct.

Here's all you gotta do:
Shoot some really good porn. Put it on your really good site. And when it's pirated and available for free everywhere, people will just be "nice" and pay for it anyway because they don't mind paying for it and feeling like a chump.


Now everything will be rainbows and unicorns!

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Well....there seems to be no concensus on what's wrong.

From my point of view...people do not want to pay for porn when it's already free. It's NOT bottled water and the free porn works just as good for jacking off (which is the only thing porn is actually used for) as buying a membership.

Now the other people on here seem to think it's because websites just aren't "good" enough.
I would say that Naughty America is a perfect example of why they are wrong. NA shoots some of the best content in the business, and they have NEVER "banged" cards or did anything "shady".
But their stuff is pirated everywhere and their latest scenes are available for free within minutes of release.
Can't make a sale to them to save my soul anymore.

But...let's pretend that facts don't exist and that these people are correct.

Here's all you gotta do:
Shoot some really good porn. Put it on your really good site. And when it's pirated and available for free everywhere, people will just be "nice" and pay for it anyway because they don't mind paying for it and feeling like a chump.


Now everything will be rainbows and unicorns!

I agree Robbie that big programs and companies like Naughty America (and others) are fucked like $2 whores prison-style when it comes to piracy, tubes, free, etc.

As you know, with CM, being in a "niche" offers a wee bit of protection against out-and-out FAILURE because not every tube site will post a CM video, or you would DMCA them, etc. But for huge companies that pay for mass amounts of content being poduced they are indeed FUCKED.

As far as being an affiliate for Naughty America, guess what? You're fucked, too. It's a shame, I am not rooting for NA's demise or anything like that, just pointing out the bigger you are, the more your brand is known, the more you will get hurt by piracy.

This does mean, however, that smaller programs, and niches, can survive better and a little longer in such an environment. You and I Robbie, tho very differant companies, are proof of this. But the future? Fuck all if I know. LOL

[baryl]

Originally Posted by PromoterX

A lot of big programs are behind these "big" tube sites. That isn't going to happen. You guys keep spreading this propaganda that tube sites are the end of the world and the reason for lower sales, but to be honest, have you ever found a HD quality full length video on a tube site? Neither have I and they just don't exist.

File lockers are the biggest issue - that's where the money is going. These guys pay what... $15 a month or more and download Terabytes of full length movies at full cable speed. I know in my area, that can mean up to 100Mb/sec. Anything released within 30 days is easily cataloged and ready for download via forums.

I might want to put on my tin foil hat for a second and think that maybe a program might have their own file locker service running with their own forum posting links to their own content, which hey, a movie here or there being downloaded at 70K-150K/sec. no big deal - would take a downloader 1-2 hours to download a full length HD quality movie, but hey, still getting $15-$30 per month to download unlimited where someone can download it in 10 minutes.

Kind of similar to the old "password sharing" sites of old - when webmasters would "leak" a L/P that gave access for 15 minutes and then lock out. Enough to maybe get a picture set or two, but not enough to get a full length video.

If your going to win the war against porn piracy, go where the money is.... file lockers.

Yep. Read the comments on many tube videos and a ton of them are along the lines of "where can I get the full version of this??" and sadly the answer is usually a file locker link, torrents or Usenet.

The thing is though that shows that the demand is there and tubes clips alone are not satisfying for a huge number of surfers.