Can someone please give me a valid reason to own a semi auto gun? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboAngel

I find most of the people who want them are a little crazy.

Noticed how a lot of them also turn out to be conspiracy idiots?

I said this before. I'm willing to bet that in general gun nutters have a lower iq than non gun nutters.

slapass · 02-13-2013, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I have two good reasons.

One, when the big earthquake hit California, I was in a place called Santa Cruz very close to the epicenter. It is a coastal town with really only one highway going in and out of it. That, plus many other roads around it were destroyed. That meant a run on grocery stores and basic necessities became scarce fast. That coupled with the fact that people were dying under rubble and people were upset more could not be done faster to save or find them meant agitation set in very quickly.

That meant the threat of violence set in very quickly. Society was upended and you would be amazed how fast even a town of mellow affluent old hippies and young surfers and university students becomes so feral. Ready to fight. Ready to rape. Ready to kill. Humanity can be more beastly than any beast. Think of what went down during Katrina, much of which is still not published.

Then I was living in downtown LA when the LA riots hit. At least 50 People were circling our building as a pack behind a slow moving van yelling, "we know you're in there! We're coming to get you!". Later we drove, heavily armed to the closest police station, forget using 911, and we asked the riot geared-up cop what to do. He said very matter of factly, "Don't just start shooting people, but if someone crosses your threshold... unload your clip." At that point I knew, once again, society had completely upended in a matter of hours.

Traffic signals may have been working, but no one was paying attention to them if you understand my drift, and that makes the road a very dangerous place. Guns are like cars, the faster they go, the more rounds they shoot, yes, the more dangerous they are, but not necessarily in the hands of someone safe and respectful of the laws of the road.

As Sun Tzu once said, "In times of peace, the gentleman will carry the sword at his side".

Did you have to fire a round? Did you show the weapon at any point? If you had not had them would the story have changed? I get that you felt threatened so they helped with peace of mind but other then that?

TurboAngel · 02-13-2013, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Noticed how a lot of them also turn out to be conspiracy idiots?

I said this before. I'm willing to bet that in general gun nutters have a lower iq than non gun nutters.

Yep, I live in NC and most people have a shot gun but there are a bunch of rednecks that have them all over the house.

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 07:08 AM

Yup, one in every room.

They call it freedom, i call it living in fear and being a total fucking idiot.

PR_Glen · 02-13-2013, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

The main legit reason would be if you are a hobbyist/competitor in target shooting. A friend of mine does shooting tournaments where they have to use three guns on three different courses. One is a shotgun, one is a semi-auto pistol and one is a semi-auto rifle. For him it is a hobby, he keeps his guns locked up in a safe and is a responsible owner.

The other potential reason is to feel safe. Some people have it in their head that having an assault rifle for home defense will keep them safer than another kind of gun. The reality is there are very few actual cases of home invasion/burglary where you might be home and need to defend yourself. In the event that happens, there is no guarantee you will even be able to get to your gun to use it.

In reality, beyond shooting/collecting there is no real "need" to own one. That doesn't mean that I think they should be outlawed. To me gun violence is a social problem, not a gun problem and we are a long ways from even considering dealing with the social problems that bring about much of the gun violence in this country.

i can live with that answer..

the rest in this thread are emotionally fuelled garbage spewed by children though.. or use emotional scarring as an excuse, which is sad.

bl4h · 02-13-2013, 07:10 AM

dumb question. why wouldnt you want a semi automatic. i guess youd rather load a musket when someone is breaking into your home

BlackCrayon · 02-13-2013, 07:11 AM

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl4h

dumb question. why wouldnt you want a semi automatic. i guess youd rather load a musket when someone is breaking into your home

Notice the iq thing i mentioned above?

Amazing how fast you nutters confirm it.

bl4h · 02-13-2013, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Notice the iq thing i mentioned above?

Amazing how fast you nutters confirm it.

I dont live in fear at all. You seem to be the one whos confused

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl4h

I dont live in fear at all. You seem to be the one whos confused

Sure, you just need semi auto weapons in your home to defend yourself

Have you ever tested your iq?

Vendzilla · 02-13-2013, 07:22 AM

Waco Texas, ATM agents attacking under the lies of illegal weapons that were never there

Mexican border violence spilling over in the US

Illegal weapons in the hands of criminals

I don't think we need automatic weapons, but semi automatic weapons? Yes

L-Pink · 02-13-2013, 07:22 AM

Can someone give me a valid reason why I should care what someone from another country thinks about my countries laws?

.

bl4h · 02-13-2013, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Sure, you just need semi auto weapons in your home to defend yourself

Have you ever tested your iq?

I have nothing to prove to your kind.

1) Idiots pull the old "u r idiot ur iq r low"
2) I told you I fear nothing. Its a tool thats around if needed. kind of like a screwdriver. Which i could put through your forehead just as easily as putting a bullet through it

12clicks · 02-13-2013, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Sure, you just need semi auto weapons in your home to defend yourself

Have you ever tested your iq?

gotta love unaccomplished nobodies discussing IQs.

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Waco Texas, ATM agents attacking under the lies of illegal weapons that were never there

Mexican border violence spilling over in the US

Illegal weapons in the hands of criminals

I don't think we need automatic weapons, but semi automatic weapons? Yes

Ofcourse you do. You are one of the biggest fucking rednecks on this forum. Pure trailer trash. And surprise surprise you also turned out to be a conspiracy nutter. What are the odds

sperbonzo · 02-13-2013, 07:46 AM

I would like to inject some facts into this debate, if I may...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...-debunked-asap

.

Since the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, America has been embroiled in a renewed gun control debate. In the Information Age there can be a lot of misinformation, and gun control is unfortunately no exception. Here are some of the ways you are being misled.

1. "Assault Weapons"

AR-15 vs M4 rifles

The term "assault weapon" is a made-up political term. AR-15's are not military rifles; so unscrupulous politicians refer to them as "military-style assault weapons." 'Style' – as in cosmetic appearance – is the only true word in that description. The Military uses the M4A1 carbine rifle, which looks outwardly very much like an AR-15, but they do not have the same functionality; AR-15s are not machine guns, though the terminology used is meant to imply they are. Senator Diane Feinstein (R-Calif.) says AR-15's are designed for killing as many people in close quarters combat as possible, when in fact the AR-15 is an intermediate to distance rifle with a range of 400-600m. Feinstein and others claim AR-15's are not used for hunting; but in fact there are dozens of varieties of AR-15 used for hunting everything from varmint/small game to deer, elk, and dangerous game. The AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for most mass shooters according to James Alan Fox, a highly respected criminologist from Northeastern University in Boston; handguns are. In fact, rifle homicides comprise a very small amount of homicides, accounting for less than 3% of homicides (323 out of 12,664 in 2011) mass shootings or otherwise.

2. "High Capacity Magazines"

Magazine

Some politicians would have us believe that so-called "high capacity" magazines are responsible for a wave of death sweeping the nation. Academic, scholarly research shows the vast majority of homicides average four shots with less than 10 shots fired. While the Aurora shooter infamously used a 100-round magazine drum, these are novelty items that are prone to jam. In fact, it did jam probably saving lives. But mass shooters don't need 100-round magazines to commit atrocity – the shooters at Virginia Tech and Columbine used 10-round magazines, they just brought a lot of them (17 and 13 respectively). James Alan Fox states mass shooters often meticulously plan their attacks in advance; a high capacity magazine ban will not deter them as Virginia Tech and Columbine illustrate.

3. Gun Show "Loophole"

Gun Show Loophole

Several people, including President Obama have stated that 40% of guns were bought via "gun show loopholes." This is not true. For one, the term "gun show loophole" implies that people are deviously getting around something when in actuality; it is just selling personal private property and is not illegal or nefarious. Additionally, private sales may not actually occur at a gun show at all. More important than loose terminology is that this claim is based on a study from 1994 of 251 people. The Washington Post evaluated this claim with the study's original authors and says the president distorted the truth. The actual range is 14%-22% with a plus or minus error margin of 6%. This means the final accurate range of this study is as low as 8%, but no more than 28%; neither figure is 40%. Further, it's implied that closing private sales would solve the issue of criminals obtaining guns; it doesn't. It fails to address illegal trafficking and straw man purchases. A Department of Justice study indicates that 78.8% of criminals get guns from friends or family (39.6%) or from the street/illegally (39.2%). To this point, the FBI states there are 1.2 million gang members in U.S. and that gangs illegally traffic guns as addition to narcotics.

4. Mass Shootings Are Not Increasing:

Mass shootings 1976-2011

Former President Bill Clinton, Mother Jones and others have claimed that mass shootings are increasing. Once again not true. James Alan Fox's analysis of the Mother Jones' study indicates they left out mass murders which made it seem there was an increase after the Federal assault weapon ban expired (they've updated their story since). Some mass murders receive more media attention than others, however the number has been consistently about 20 annually since 1976. The number dead from these mass shootings fluctuates from about 25 to 150, depending on the year (Fox's chart is shown above). In 2012, it was less than 100. Though tragic, this represents a fraction of 1% of homicides. In recent years, homicides by raw number peaked in 1991 at 24,700; it's dropped in half since, and the homicide rate per 100,000 people today is less than it was even in 1900 (see below).

5. Anti-Gun Organizations Lump in Suicide & Injuries With Crime Data:

Brady Campaign

After a mass murder shooting anti-gun organizations like the Brady campaign inevitably call for gun restrictions; these organizations also cite gun violence data other than crime data to include suicides and injuries. This is misleading. Although accidents and suicide are public health concerns, it is disingenuous to include them with homicide in response to a horrific crime. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), suicide rates have crept up slightly 2000-2009, but are still lower than the rate per 100,000 from 1950-1990. It's not accurate to say guns contribute to suicide causal factors since the rate is lower now. And ultimately, legislation aimed to prevent crime by banning weapons and limiting magazine capacity has no reasonable connection to either suicide or accidents. We ought to compare apples to apples: suicide with suicide prevention, accidents with safety programs, and homicide with policy that would realistically reduce homicide.

6. Too Many Are Being Killed:

Murder per 100,000 - 1900-2010

This statement is political gaming and wordplay. How many dead would be okay? Who wouldn't want less murder? Ideally, zero would be the goal, but that begs the question of how to prevent any tendency of violence in humans. This phrase is not only meaningless in terms of contributing to policy that achieves a positive end result, but also dangerous in that the appeal to emotion runs the risk of circumventing genuine solution in favor of sound byte. It makes sense to try to achieve goals with policies other than those proven to be ineffective, as the previous Federal assault weapons ban was. Lastly, homicides are at an all time low.

7. False Zero-Sum Dichotomy - "Either/Or":

Michael Bloomberg

Famous anti-gun rights advocate New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said, "I want the Congress to have to stand up and say 'I'm with the NRA and support killing our children', or 'No'" (Time magazine, January 28, 2013, p.30). On CNN's Piers Morgan, Congressman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) said, "the NRA is enablers of mass murder." This overly simplistic incendiary rhetoric does nothing to further our national discussion, and falsely frames the debate as a zero-sum, winner-take-all, 'either/or' proposition – either you hug a gun or hug a kid, but you couldn't possibly be for both gun rights and your child's safety. That is preposterous. The NRA is not "the gun industry," and preservation of the Second Amendment is not of interest only to gun manufacturers. Nearly half of NRA funding comes from individual donors. The NRA is comprised of average people who want safe neighborhoods, schools, and streets. Rather than offer ridiculous false dichotomy and grandstanding, we should be looking for genuine solutions.

BONUS: We Need More Laws:

NICS

This is the granddaddy lie. We already have a lot of laws. It's illegal to kill your mom, steal a gun, take that gun onto school property, forcibly break and enter, and murder kids. We already have laws preventing mentally ill & felons from obtaining guns, and we have a background check system (NICS). The Sandy Hook shooter was denied to legally purchase a gun because of the NICS system. We tried a federal assault weapons ban (AWB) before. What we do need is better enforcement of existing laws. Congress has not fully funded NICS. Many states do not fully report felony and mental health data to NICS. The Justice Department only prosecutes a fraction of those who criminally falsify background check forms. We desperately need to engage in genuine discussion about real solutions to the violence problem. These solutions are not likely to yield instantaneous results, or win the next election cycle; yet it is what we would do if we were serious about addressing the issue. The underlying causes include: gang activity, which accounts for 48-90% of violent crime depending on jurisdiction; drug abuse, the single biggest predictor of violence with-or-without mental illness; concentrated urban population and poverty; and mental illness, including de-institutionalization, treatment and intervention, and other facets of mental health.

Vendzilla · 02-13-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Ofcourse you do. You are one of the biggest fucking rednecks on this forum. Pure trailer trash. And surprise surprise you also turned out to be a conspiracy nutter. What are the odds

Racist talk again?

Still want to disarm women?

12clicks · 02-13-2013, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I would like to inject some facts into this debate, if I may...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...-debunked-asap

.

Since the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, America has been embroiled in a renewed gun control debate. In the Information Age there can be a lot of misinformation, and gun control is unfortunately no exception. Here are some of the ways you are being misled.

1. "Assault Weapons"

AR-15 vs M4 rifles

The term "assault weapon" is a made-up political term. AR-15's are not military rifles; so unscrupulous politicians refer to them as "military-style assault weapons." 'Style' ? as in cosmetic appearance ? is the only true word in that description. The Military uses the M4A1 carbine rifle, which looks outwardly very much like an AR-15, but they do not have the same functionality; AR-15s are not machine guns, though the terminology used is meant to imply they are. Senator Diane Feinstein (R-Calif.) says AR-15's are designed for killing as many people in close quarters combat as possible, when in fact the AR-15 is an intermediate to distance rifle with a range of 400-600m. Feinstein and others claim AR-15's are not used for hunting; but in fact there are dozens of varieties of AR-15 used for hunting everything from varmint/small game to deer, elk, and dangerous game. The AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for most mass shooters according to James Alan Fox, a highly respected criminologist from Northeastern University in Boston; handguns are. In fact, rifle homicides comprise a very small amount of homicides, accounting for less than 3% of homicides (323 out of 12,664 in 2011) mass shootings or otherwise.

2. "High Capacity Magazines"

Magazine

Some politicians would have us believe that so-called "high capacity" magazines are responsible for a wave of death sweeping the nation. Academic, scholarly research shows the vast majority of homicides average four shots with less than 10 shots fired. While the Aurora shooter infamously used a 100-round magazine drum, these are novelty items that are prone to jam. In fact, it did jam probably saving lives. But mass shooters don't need 100-round magazines to commit atrocity ? the shooters at Virginia Tech and Columbine used 10-round magazines, they just brought a lot of them (17 and 13 respectively). James Alan Fox states mass shooters often meticulously plan their attacks in advance; a high capacity magazine ban will not deter them as Virginia Tech and Columbine illustrate.

3. Gun Show "Loophole"

Gun Show Loophole

Several people, including President Obama have stated that 40% of guns were bought via "gun show loopholes." This is not true. For one, the term "gun show loophole" implies that people are deviously getting around something when in actuality; it is just selling personal private property and is not illegal or nefarious. Additionally, private sales may not actually occur at a gun show at all. More important than loose terminology is that this claim is based on a study from 1994 of 251 people. The Washington Post evaluated this claim with the study's original authors and says the president distorted the truth. The actual range is 14%-22% with a plus or minus error margin of 6%. This means the final accurate range of this study is as low as 8%, but no more than 28%; neither figure is 40%. Further, it's implied that closing private sales would solve the issue of criminals obtaining guns; it doesn't. It fails to address illegal trafficking and straw man purchases. A Department of Justice study indicates that 78.8% of criminals get guns from friends or family (39.6%) or from the street/illegally (39.2%). To this point, the FBI states there are 1.2 million gang members in U.S. and that gangs illegally traffic guns as addition to narcotics.

4. Mass Shootings Are Not Increasing:

Mass shootings 1976-2011

Former President Bill Clinton, Mother Jones and others have claimed that mass shootings are increasing. Once again not true. James Alan Fox's analysis of the Mother Jones' study indicates they left out mass murders which made it seem there was an increase after the Federal assault weapon ban expired (they've updated their story since). Some mass murders receive more media attention than others, however the number has been consistently about 20 annually since 1976. The number dead from these mass shootings fluctuates from about 25 to 150, depending on the year (Fox's chart is shown above). In 2012, it was less than 100. Though tragic, this represents a fraction of 1% of homicides. In recent years, homicides by raw number peaked in 1991 at 24,700; it's dropped in half since, and the homicide rate per 100,000 people today is less than it was even in 1900 (see below).

5. Anti-Gun Organizations Lump in Suicide & Injuries With Crime Data:

Brady Campaign

After a mass murder shooting anti-gun organizations like the Brady campaign inevitably call for gun restrictions; these organizations also cite gun violence data other than crime data to include suicides and injuries. This is misleading. Although accidents and suicide are public health concerns, it is disingenuous to include them with homicide in response to a horrific crime. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), suicide rates have crept up slightly 2000-2009, but are still lower than the rate per 100,000 from 1950-1990. It's not accurate to say guns contribute to suicide causal factors since the rate is lower now. And ultimately, legislation aimed to prevent crime by banning weapons and limiting magazine capacity has no reasonable connection to either suicide or accidents. We ought to compare apples to apples: suicide with suicide prevention, accidents with safety programs, and homicide with policy that would realistically reduce homicide.

6. Too Many Are Being Killed:

Murder per 100,000 - 1900-2010

This statement is political gaming and wordplay. How many dead would be okay? Who wouldn't want less murder? Ideally, zero would be the goal, but that begs the question of how to prevent any tendency of violence in humans. This phrase is not only meaningless in terms of contributing to policy that achieves a positive end result, but also dangerous in that the appeal to emotion runs the risk of circumventing genuine solution in favor of sound byte. It makes sense to try to achieve goals with policies other than those proven to be ineffective, as the previous Federal assault weapons ban was. Lastly, homicides are at an all time low.

7. False Zero-Sum Dichotomy - "Either/Or":

Michael Bloomberg

Famous anti-gun rights advocate New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said, "I want the Congress to have to stand up and say 'I'm with the NRA and support killing our children', or 'No'" (Time magazine, January 28, 2013, p.30). On CNN's Piers Morgan, Congressman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) said, "the NRA is enablers of mass murder." This overly simplistic incendiary rhetoric does nothing to further our national discussion, and falsely frames the debate as a zero-sum, winner-take-all, 'either/or' proposition ? either you hug a gun or hug a kid, but you couldn't possibly be for both gun rights and your child's safety. That is preposterous. The NRA is not "the gun industry," and preservation of the Second Amendment is not of interest only to gun manufacturers. Nearly half of NRA funding comes from individual donors. The NRA is comprised of average people who want safe neighborhoods, schools, and streets. Rather than offer ridiculous false dichotomy and grandstanding, we should be looking for genuine solutions.

BONUS: We Need More Laws:

NICS

This is the granddaddy lie. We already have a lot of laws. It's illegal to kill your mom, steal a gun, take that gun onto school property, forcibly break and enter, and murder kids. We already have laws preventing mentally ill & felons from obtaining guns, and we have a background check system (NICS). The Sandy Hook shooter was denied to legally purchase a gun because of the NICS system. We tried a federal assault weapons ban (AWB) before. What we do need is better enforcement of existing laws. Congress has not fully funded NICS. Many states do not fully report felony and mental health data to NICS. The Justice Department only prosecutes a fraction of those who criminally falsify background check forms. We desperately need to engage in genuine discussion about real solutions to the violence problem. These solutions are not likely to yield instantaneous results, or win the next election cycle; yet it is what we would do if we were serious about addressing the issue. The underlying causes include: gang activity, which accounts for 48-90% of violent crime depending on jurisdiction; drug abuse, the single biggest predictor of violence with-or-without mental illness; concentrated urban population and poverty; and mental illness, including de-institutionalization, treatment and intervention, and other facets of mental health.

well done.

sarettah · 02-13-2013, 08:44 AM

Phoenix · 02-13-2013, 08:47 AM

AdultPornMasta · 02-13-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I would like to inject some facts into this debate, if I may...

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...-debunked-asap

.

Since the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, America has been embroiled in a renewed gun control debate. In the Information Age there can be a lot of misinformation, and gun control is unfortunately no exception. Here are some of the ways you are being misled.

1. "Assault Weapons"

AR-15 vs M4 rifles

The term "assault weapon" is a made-up political term. AR-15's are not military rifles; so unscrupulous politicians refer to them as "military-style assault weapons." 'Style' ? as in cosmetic appearance ? is the only true word in that description. The Military uses the M4A1 carbine rifle, which looks outwardly very much like an AR-15, but they do not have the same functionality; AR-15s are not machine guns, though the terminology used is meant to imply they are. Senator Diane Feinstein (R-Calif.) says AR-15's are designed for killing as many people in close quarters combat as possible, when in fact the AR-15 is an intermediate to distance rifle with a range of 400-600m. Feinstein and others claim AR-15's are not used for hunting; but in fact there are dozens of varieties of AR-15 used for hunting everything from varmint/small game to deer, elk, and dangerous game. The AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for most mass shooters according to James Alan Fox, a highly respected criminologist from Northeastern University in Boston; handguns are. In fact, rifle homicides comprise a very small amount of homicides, accounting for less than 3% of homicides (323 out of 12,664 in 2011) mass shootings or otherwise.

2. "High Capacity Magazines"

Magazine

Some politicians would have us believe that so-called "high capacity" magazines are responsible for a wave of death sweeping the nation. Academic, scholarly research shows the vast majority of homicides average four shots with less than 10 shots fired. While the Aurora shooter infamously used a 100-round magazine drum, these are novelty items that are prone to jam. In fact, it did jam probably saving lives. But mass shooters don't need 100-round magazines to commit atrocity ? the shooters at Virginia Tech and Columbine used 10-round magazines, they just brought a lot of them (17 and 13 respectively). James Alan Fox states mass shooters often meticulously plan their attacks in advance; a high capacity magazine ban will not deter them as Virginia Tech and Columbine illustrate.

3. Gun Show "Loophole"

Gun Show Loophole

Several people, including President Obama have stated that 40% of guns were bought via "gun show loopholes." This is not true. For one, the term "gun show loophole" implies that people are deviously getting around something when in actuality; it is just selling personal private property and is not illegal or nefarious. Additionally, private sales may not actually occur at a gun show at all. More important than loose terminology is that this claim is based on a study from 1994 of 251 people. The Washington Post evaluated this claim with the study's original authors and says the president distorted the truth. The actual range is 14%-22% with a plus or minus error margin of 6%. This means the final accurate range of this study is as low as 8%, but no more than 28%; neither figure is 40%. Further, it's implied that closing private sales would solve the issue of criminals obtaining guns; it doesn't. It fails to address illegal trafficking and straw man purchases. A Department of Justice study indicates that 78.8% of criminals get guns from friends or family (39.6%) or from the street/illegally (39.2%). To this point, the FBI states there are 1.2 million gang members in U.S. and that gangs illegally traffic guns as addition to narcotics.

4. Mass Shootings Are Not Increasing:

Mass shootings 1976-2011

Former President Bill Clinton, Mother Jones and others have claimed that mass shootings are increasing. Once again not true. James Alan Fox's analysis of the Mother Jones' study indicates they left out mass murders which made it seem there was an increase after the Federal assault weapon ban expired (they've updated their story since). Some mass murders receive more media attention than others, however the number has been consistently about 20 annually since 1976. The number dead from these mass shootings fluctuates from about 25 to 150, depending on the year (Fox's chart is shown above). In 2012, it was less than 100. Though tragic, this represents a fraction of 1% of homicides. In recent years, homicides by raw number peaked in 1991 at 24,700; it's dropped in half since, and the homicide rate per 100,000 people today is less than it was even in 1900 (see below).

5. Anti-Gun Organizations Lump in Suicide & Injuries With Crime Data:

Brady Campaign

After a mass murder shooting anti-gun organizations like the Brady campaign inevitably call for gun restrictions; these organizations also cite gun violence data other than crime data to include suicides and injuries. This is misleading. Although accidents and suicide are public health concerns, it is disingenuous to include them with homicide in response to a horrific crime. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), suicide rates have crept up slightly 2000-2009, but are still lower than the rate per 100,000 from 1950-1990. It's not accurate to say guns contribute to suicide causal factors since the rate is lower now. And ultimately, legislation aimed to prevent crime by banning weapons and limiting magazine capacity has no reasonable connection to either suicide or accidents. We ought to compare apples to apples: suicide with suicide prevention, accidents with safety programs, and homicide with policy that would realistically reduce homicide.

6. Too Many Are Being Killed:

Murder per 100,000 - 1900-2010

This statement is political gaming and wordplay. How many dead would be okay? Who wouldn't want less murder? Ideally, zero would be the goal, but that begs the question of how to prevent any tendency of violence in humans. This phrase is not only meaningless in terms of contributing to policy that achieves a positive end result, but also dangerous in that the appeal to emotion runs the risk of circumventing genuine solution in favor of sound byte. It makes sense to try to achieve goals with policies other than those proven to be ineffective, as the previous Federal assault weapons ban was. Lastly, homicides are at an all time low.

7. False Zero-Sum Dichotomy - "Either/Or":

Michael Bloomberg

Famous anti-gun rights advocate New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said, "I want the Congress to have to stand up and say 'I'm with the NRA and support killing our children', or 'No'" (Time magazine, January 28, 2013, p.30). On CNN's Piers Morgan, Congressman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) said, "the NRA is enablers of mass murder." This overly simplistic incendiary rhetoric does nothing to further our national discussion, and falsely frames the debate as a zero-sum, winner-take-all, 'either/or' proposition ? either you hug a gun or hug a kid, but you couldn't possibly be for both gun rights and your child's safety. That is preposterous. The NRA is not "the gun industry," and preservation of the Second Amendment is not of interest only to gun manufacturers. Nearly half of NRA funding comes from individual donors. The NRA is comprised of average people who want safe neighborhoods, schools, and streets. Rather than offer ridiculous false dichotomy and grandstanding, we should be looking for genuine solutions.

BONUS: We Need More Laws:

NICS

This is the granddaddy lie. We already have a lot of laws. It's illegal to kill your mom, steal a gun, take that gun onto school property, forcibly break and enter, and murder kids. We already have laws preventing mentally ill & felons from obtaining guns, and we have a background check system (NICS). The Sandy Hook shooter was denied to legally purchase a gun because of the NICS system. We tried a federal assault weapons ban (AWB) before. What we do need is better enforcement of existing laws. Congress has not fully funded NICS. Many states do not fully report felony and mental health data to NICS. The Justice Department only prosecutes a fraction of those who criminally falsify background check forms. We desperately need to engage in genuine discussion about real solutions to the violence problem. These solutions are not likely to yield instantaneous results, or win the next election cycle; yet it is what we would do if we were serious about addressing the issue. The underlying causes include: gang activity, which accounts for 48-90% of violent crime depending on jurisdiction; drug abuse, the single biggest predictor of violence with-or-without mental illness; concentrated urban population and poverty; and mental illness, including de-institutionalization, treatment and intervention, and other facets of mental health.

Worth reprinting as perhaps if the lunkheads read it a thrid time, they will get it!

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Racist talk again?

Still want to disarm women?

Racist?

No you dumb trailer trash. Just calling a redneck a redneck.

brassmonkey · 02-13-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Ofcourse you do. You are one of the biggest fucking rednecks on this forum. Pure trailer trash. And surprise surprise you also turned out to be a conspiracy nutter. What are the odds

yeah a military vet is white trash

Dirty F · 02-13-2013, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

yeah a military vet is white trash

Pure trailer trash yes.

Vendzilla · 02-13-2013, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Pure trailer trash yes.

Before you were calling me white trailer trash till I called you on it.

I guess you have zero imagination

Imagination is more important than knowledge

Rochard · 02-13-2013, 10:07 AM

We need assault rifles for the zombie apocalypse.

Vendzilla · 02-13-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

We need assault rifles for the zombie apocalypse.

The police are here to protect you

Rochard · 02-13-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The police are here to protect you

Really Brett? How childish.

I don't know what ghetto or gutter you live in, but I don't live in fear of the police. In fact, nearly one third of my friends are police officers now.

BTW.... The ATF were serving a warrant on the compound in Waco, had four of their officers shot in the gun battle that followed when they served the warrant, and they did in fact find firearms in the compound when all was said and done.

J. Falcon · 02-13-2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lester Burnham

Ok, let me write this in crayons for you.

First, people enjoy shooting because it is fun. Like a lot of hobbies, it is dangerous. People like to drink to excess. Why? Because it is fun. The U.S. tried banning alcohol consumption before. Did it work? No. Is banning guns in the U.S. gonna work when there are already millions of guns in circulation. No. It ain't rocket science.

Seems like you're the one who needs it written in crayon.

Nobody is talking about banning guns, just stricter gun control and perhaps outlawying semi auto rifles.

Robbie · 02-13-2013, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't know what ghetto or gutter you live in, but I don't live in fear of the police. In fact, nearly one third of my friends are police officers now.

I have a lot of buddies who are cops...here in Vegas, over in South Carolina, and several members of my family back in Florida.

Rochard, you BETTER be in fear of the police! lol

Every cop I know LIVES for the possibility of confrontation. And they will beat your ass to the ground over nothing.

It's just human nature. The courts have given the cops unlimited power on the scene (yeah, you can "win" in court...but you still got your ass beaten and sometimes KILLED on the scene), and that kind of power just naturally goes to your head.

Hell, I'd like to say that I would be a "good" cop and never do that. But I'd probably put that uniform on, realize I could get away with damn near anything...and then be just like the rest of them.

J. Falcon · 02-13-2013, 11:07 AM

Meanwhile the next mass shooting is just around the corner, just wait and see.

dyna mo · 02-13-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

BTW.... The ATF were serving a warrant on the compound in Waco, had four of their officers shot in the gun battle that followed when they served the warrant, and they did in fact find firearms in the compound when all was said and done.

they were suspected of having illegal weapons, that was never proven. they had plenty of weapons and there was nothing illegal about that.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/TDM-02.html

the truth of waco was covered up, the documentary sheds light on the facts.

Vendzilla · 02-13-2013, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

they were suspected of having illegal weapons, that was never proven. they had plenty of weapons and there was nothing illegal about that.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/TDM-02.html

the truth of waco was covered up, the documentary sheds light on the facts.

Thanx, I pointed this out to Richard once before, but I guess he didn't read it.

As far as having a lot of cops around you, I live in LA, they just BBQ'd one in the woods

12clicks · 02-13-2013, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Seems like you're the one who needs it written in crayon.

Nobody is talking about banning guns, just stricter gun control and perhaps outlawying semi auto rifles.

here in the intelligent part of the country, we understand that outlawing something = banning something.

Semi-autos have been legal to possess since they were first invented. You're probably not bright enough to ask yourself the question of "why ban them now when gun violence is at an all time low?"

12clicks · 02-13-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have a lot of buddies who are cops...here in Vegas, over in South Carolina, and several members of my family back in Florida.

Rochard, you BETTER be in fear of the police! lol

Every cop I know LIVES for the possibility of confrontation. And they will beat your ass to the ground over nothing.

It's just human nature. The courts have given the cops unlimited power on the scene (yeah, you can "win" in court...but you still got your ass beaten and sometimes KILLED on the scene), and that kind of power just naturally goes to your head.

Hell, I'd like to say that I would be a "good" cop and never do that. But I'd probably put that uniform on, realize I could get away with damn near anything...and then be just like the rest of them.

exactly right.
If you've ever listened to cops talk about "civilians" for any length of time you realize most are someone you put your trust in.

Grapesoda · 02-13-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleazyDream

no I don't get the picture, your argument doesn't make sense to me and it falls back to the no guns idea. A pump shotgun is more than fine to defend any home. I never said no guns, I said no semi auto

fyi: just because you don't understand/or want something doesn't make it 'a universal truth' personally I don't understand sucking cock BUT I don't diss the guys that do... see? i.e. everything isn't about you and what you. want or you understand... now was that difficult?

2013 · 02-13-2013, 11:43 AM

cliff notes on thread?

Grapesoda · 02-13-2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

We need assault rifles for the zombie apocalypse.

BINGO!!!!!

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...ducts_id=14858

dgraves · 02-13-2013, 11:46 AM

In most cases people want guns because they are fun. That part isn't always understood because we all like different things. Some people like to smack a little white ball around for hours trying to get it in a hole while others think it's stupid and a waste of time.

Do we need semi-automatic weapons? No more than we need a fire extinguisher. You don't really "need" it but you want it in case you need it.

This country is in serious dept and if and when things go to shit, guns and bullets will quickly turn into a very important "need" to protect your other vital needs like food, water, medicine, shelter.

Rochard · 02-13-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have a lot of buddies who are cops...here in Vegas, over in South Carolina, and several members of my family back in Florida.

Rochard, you BETTER be in fear of the police! lol

Every cop I know LIVES for the possibility of confrontation. And they will beat your ass to the ground over nothing.

It's just human nature. The courts have given the cops unlimited power on the scene (yeah, you can "win" in court...but you still got your ass beaten and sometimes KILLED on the scene), and that kind of power just naturally goes to your head.

Hell, I'd like to say that I would be a "good" cop and never do that. But I'd probably put that uniform on, realize I could get away with damn near anything...and then be just like the rest of them.

My officer friends - all three or four of them - tell me the same thing... Every day they get yelled at, screamed at, kicked, punched, slapped, and bit. In the mean time, they are on the look out for much worse - someone pulling a knife or a gun. Yes, they are waiting for a confrontation.

Not much of an issue for me. I rarely come into contact with cops. Common sense tells you no sudden movements. If you are in your car, keep your hands in sight at all times. Easy. I got pulled over when a model was driving once, and she did everything wrong - she didn't even shut off her car. Well, she did show off her cleavage (nothing to the cleavage you are used to Robbie) but it seems it was "just enough" and didn't get her a ticket.

Rochard · 02-13-2013, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

they were suspected of having illegal weapons, that was never proven. they had plenty of weapons and there was nothing illegal about that.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/TDM-02.html

the truth of waco was covered up, the documentary sheds light on the facts.

Don't. Fucking. Care.

When the ATF or FBI or any government agency shows up with a fucking warrant you don't fucking shoot and kill four officers. At that point the original warrant is pointless. You shoot and kill four people the cops are coming in NO MATTER WHAT.

dyna mo · 02-13-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Don't. Fucking. Care.

When the ATF or FBI or any government agency shows up with a fucking warrant you don't fucking shoot and kill four officers. At that point the original warrant is pointless. You shoot and kill four people the cops are coming in NO MATTER WHAT.

it's too bad you choose to continue making up your own story of what happened there but i did expect that. even so, figured I'd give ya a chance to educate yourself on the actual event as you do like to claim you are knowledgeable about american history.

CyberHustler · 02-13-2013, 12:41 PM

Franck, why you so scared of armed Americans? Vast majority of people here will never get shot or robbed with a gun, what makes you so scared all the way in Weedsterdam?

Penny24Seven · 02-13-2013, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Can someone give me a valid reason why I should care what someone from another country thinks about my countries laws?

.

I love how franck and his fucked up wooden shoes thinks we all live in fear. He spends his day bitching about shit he learns on GFY because we all know if you want a good idea of America come to GFY to get your opinions lol, my front door is wide open and I have no guns in the house. I am not afraid of some retard walking in with a gun or as he would say redneck gun nutters LOL, who gives a fuck about small areas of people here and there. I am not there so it does not bother me. Yeah I am jealous because he can get dog shit off his shoes faster then we can and use them for fire wood at the same time. Big deal

grzepa · 02-13-2013, 01:07 PM

because handguns and rifles are NOT ENOUGH these days.

dgraves · 02-13-2013, 02:12 PM

I think it's a smart move on Obama's behalf. A president that is tanking the economy should make disarming citizens a priority.

Rochard · 02-13-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's too bad you choose to continue making up your own story of what happened there but i did expect that. even so, figured I'd give ya a chance to educate yourself on the actual event as you do like to claim you are knowledgeable about american history.

I honestly don't remember the exact details of what happened back then, and because on GFY people call you out on things... I looked it up before posting.

Quote:

The Waco siege began on February 28, 1993, and ended violently 50 days later on April 19. The siege began when the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), accompanied by several members of the media, attempted to execute a search warrant at Mount Carmel Center ranch, a property of the religious group Branch Davidians located in the community of Elk, Texas, nine miles (14 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco.

On February 28, shortly after the attempt to serve the warrant, an intense gun battle erupted, lasting nearly two hours. In this armed exchange, four agents and six Branch Davidians were killed. Upon the ATF's failure to execute the search warrant, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The siege ended 50 days later when a fire destroyed the compound after a second assault was launched. Seventy-six men, women and children, including the sect leader, David Koresh, died in the fire. The Waco siege also has been described as the "Waco massacre."

So it pretty much happened the way I thought it did. On top of that, the fucking ATF brought the press along with them!

In short, ATF attempts to serve a warrant and four officers are shot dead. WTF planet do you live on where that is acceptable? If ten officers knock on my door and have a warrant for illegal firearms or a meth lab or whatever, I open up the door and let them in. You don't start shooting people dead...

PornoMonster · 02-13-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

My officer friends - all three or four of them - tell me the same thing... Every day they get yelled at, screamed at, kicked, punched, slapped, and bit. In the mean time, they are on the look out for much worse - someone pulling a knife or a gun. Yes, they are waiting for a confrontation.

Not much of an issue for me. I rarely come into contact with cops. Common sense tells you no sudden movements. If you are in your car, keep your hands in sight at all times. Easy. I got pulled over when a model was driving once, and she did everything wrong - she didn't even shut off her car. Well, she did show off her cleavage (nothing to the cleavage you are used to Robbie) but it seems it was "just enough" and didn't get her a ticket.

Yeah, stand up police .. see some boobs and forget a ticket.. Wonder what they would do to save their ass?

JP-pornshooter · 02-13-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far-L

I have two good reasons.

One, when the big earthquake hit California, I was in a place called Santa Cruz very close to the epicenter. It is a coastal town with really only one highway going in and out of it. That, plus many other roads around it were destroyed. That meant a run on grocery stores and basic necessities became scarce fast. That coupled with the fact that people were dying under rubble and people were upset more could not be done faster to save or find them meant agitation set in very quickly.

That meant the threat of violence set in very quickly. Society was upended and you would be amazed how fast even a town of mellow affluent old hippies and young surfers and university students becomes so feral. Ready to fight. Ready to rape. Ready to kill. Humanity can be more beastly than any beast. Think of what went down during Katrina, much of which is still not published.

Then I was living in downtown LA when the LA riots hit. At least 50 People were circling our building as a pack behind a slow moving van yelling, "we know you're in there! We're coming to get you!". Later we drove, heavily armed to the closest police station, forget using 911, and we asked the riot geared-up cop what to do. He said very matter of factly, "Don't just start shooting people, but if someone crosses your threshold... unload your clip." At that point I knew, once again, society had completely upended in a matter of hours.

Traffic signals may have been working, but no one was paying attention to them if you understand my drift, and that makes the road a very dangerous place. Guns are like cars, the faster they go, the more rounds they shoot, yes, the more dangerous they are, but not necessarily in the hands of someone safe and respectful of the laws of the road.

As Sun Tzu once said, "In times of peace, the gentleman will carry the sword at his side".

i bow to thy wisdom (once again)

but please stop comparing cars to guns.. (not you Far-L)
guns are made specifically to cause hurt, cars are designed to make transport.
yes you can open a beer with a gun, but you cant shot someone with a bottle opener
(same idea)

JFK · 02-13-2013, 03:01 PM

100........semi automatic debates

02-13-2013, 07:11 AM	#57
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	__________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

02-13-2013, 07:22 AM	#61
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,201	Waco Texas, ATM agents attacking under the lies of illegal weapons that were never there Mexican border violence spilling over in the US Illegal weapons in the hands of criminals I don't think we need automatic weapons, but semi automatic weapons? Yes __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

02-13-2013, 07:46 AM	#66
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,743	I would like to inject some facts into this debate, if I may... http://www.policymic.com/articles/24...-debunked-asap . Since the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary in Newtown, Connecticut, America has been embroiled in a renewed gun control debate. In the Information Age there can be a lot of misinformation, and gun control is unfortunately no exception. Here are some of the ways you are being misled. 1. "Assault Weapons" AR-15 vs M4 rifles The term "assault weapon" is a made-up political term. AR-15's are not military rifles; so unscrupulous politicians refer to them as "military-style assault weapons." 'Style' – as in cosmetic appearance – is the only true word in that description. The Military uses the M4A1 carbine rifle, which looks outwardly very much like an AR-15, but they do not have the same functionality; AR-15s are not machine guns, though the terminology used is meant to imply they are. Senator Diane Feinstein (R-Calif.) says AR-15's are designed for killing as many people in close quarters combat as possible, when in fact the AR-15 is an intermediate to distance rifle with a range of 400-600m. Feinstein and others claim AR-15's are not used for hunting; but in fact there are dozens of varieties of AR-15 used for hunting everything from varmint/small game to deer, elk, and dangerous game. The AR-15 is not the weapon of choice for most mass shooters according to James Alan Fox, a highly respected criminologist from Northeastern University in Boston; handguns are. In fact, rifle homicides comprise a very small amount of homicides, accounting for less than 3% of homicides (323 out of 12,664 in 2011) mass shootings or otherwise. 2. "High Capacity Magazines" Magazine Some politicians would have us believe that so-called "high capacity" magazines are responsible for a wave of death sweeping the nation. Academic, scholarly research shows the vast majority of homicides average four shots with less than 10 shots fired. While the Aurora shooter infamously used a 100-round magazine drum, these are novelty items that are prone to jam. In fact, it did jam probably saving lives. But mass shooters don't need 100-round magazines to commit atrocity – the shooters at Virginia Tech and Columbine used 10-round magazines, they just brought a lot of them (17 and 13 respectively). James Alan Fox states mass shooters often meticulously plan their attacks in advance; a high capacity magazine ban will not deter them as Virginia Tech and Columbine illustrate. 3. Gun Show "Loophole" Gun Show Loophole Several people, including President Obama have stated that 40% of guns were bought via "gun show loopholes." This is not true. For one, the term "gun show loophole" implies that people are deviously getting around something when in actuality; it is just selling personal private property and is not illegal or nefarious. Additionally, private sales may not actually occur at a gun show at all. More important than loose terminology is that this claim is based on a study from 1994 of 251 people. The Washington Post evaluated this claim with the study's original authors and says the president distorted the truth. The actual range is 14%-22% with a plus or minus error margin of 6%. This means the final accurate range of this study is as low as 8%, but no more than 28%; neither figure is 40%. Further, it's implied that closing private sales would solve the issue of criminals obtaining guns; it doesn't. It fails to address illegal trafficking and straw man purchases. A Department of Justice study indicates that 78.8% of criminals get guns from friends or family (39.6%) or from the street/illegally (39.2%). To this point, the FBI states there are 1.2 million gang members in U.S. and that gangs illegally traffic guns as addition to narcotics. 4. Mass Shootings Are Not Increasing: Mass shootings 1976-2011 Former President Bill Clinton, Mother Jones and others have claimed that mass shootings are increasing. Once again not true. James Alan Fox's analysis of the Mother Jones' study indicates they left out mass murders which made it seem there was an increase after the Federal assault weapon ban expired (they've updated their story since). Some mass murders receive more media attention than others, however the number has been consistently about 20 annually since 1976. The number dead from these mass shootings fluctuates from about 25 to 150, depending on the year (Fox's chart is shown above). In 2012, it was less than 100. Though tragic, this represents a fraction of 1% of homicides. In recent years, homicides by raw number peaked in 1991 at 24,700; it's dropped in half since, and the homicide rate per 100,000 people today is less than it was even in 1900 (see below). 5. Anti-Gun Organizations Lump in Suicide & Injuries With Crime Data: Brady Campaign After a mass murder shooting anti-gun organizations like the Brady campaign inevitably call for gun restrictions; these organizations also cite gun violence data other than crime data to include suicides and injuries. This is misleading. Although accidents and suicide are public health concerns, it is disingenuous to include them with homicide in response to a horrific crime. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), suicide rates have crept up slightly 2000-2009, but are still lower than the rate per 100,000 from 1950-1990. It's not accurate to say guns contribute to suicide causal factors since the rate is lower now. And ultimately, legislation aimed to prevent crime by banning weapons and limiting magazine capacity has no reasonable connection to either suicide or accidents. We ought to compare apples to apples: suicide with suicide prevention, accidents with safety programs, and homicide with policy that would realistically reduce homicide. 6. Too Many Are Being Killed: Murder per 100,000 - 1900-2010 This statement is political gaming and wordplay. How many dead would be okay? Who wouldn't want less murder? Ideally, zero would be the goal, but that begs the question of how to prevent any tendency of violence in humans. This phrase is not only meaningless in terms of contributing to policy that achieves a positive end result, but also dangerous in that the appeal to emotion runs the risk of circumventing genuine solution in favor of sound byte. It makes sense to try to achieve goals with policies other than those proven to be ineffective, as the previous Federal assault weapons ban was. Lastly, homicides are at an all time low. 7. False Zero-Sum Dichotomy - "Either/Or": Michael Bloomberg Famous anti-gun rights advocate New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said, "I want the Congress to have to stand up and say 'I'm with the NRA and support killing our children', or 'No'" (Time magazine, January 28, 2013, p.30). On CNN's Piers Morgan, Congressman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) said, "the NRA is enablers of mass murder." This overly simplistic incendiary rhetoric does nothing to further our national discussion, and falsely frames the debate as a zero-sum, winner-take-all, 'either/or' proposition – either you hug a gun or hug a kid, but you couldn't possibly be for both gun rights and your child's safety. That is preposterous. The NRA is not "the gun industry," and preservation of the Second Amendment is not of interest only to gun manufacturers. Nearly half of NRA funding comes from individual donors. The NRA is comprised of average people who want safe neighborhoods, schools, and streets. Rather than offer ridiculous false dichotomy and grandstanding, we should be looking for genuine solutions. BONUS: We Need More Laws: NICS This is the granddaddy lie. We already have a lot of laws. It's illegal to kill your mom, steal a gun, take that gun onto school property, forcibly break and enter, and murder kids. We already have laws preventing mentally ill & felons from obtaining guns, and we have a background check system (NICS). The Sandy Hook shooter was denied to legally purchase a gun because of the NICS system. We tried a federal assault weapons ban (AWB) before. What we do need is better enforcement of existing laws. Congress has not fully funded NICS. Many states do not fully report felony and mental health data to NICS. The Justice Department only prosecutes a fraction of those who criminally falsify background check forms. We desperately need to engage in genuine discussion about real solutions to the violence problem. These solutions are not likely to yield instantaneous results, or win the next election cycle; yet it is what we would do if we were serious about addressing the issue. The underlying causes include: gang activity, which accounts for 48-90% of violent crime depending on jurisdiction; drug abuse, the single biggest predictor of violence with-or-without mental illness; concentrated urban population and poverty; and mental illness, including de-institutionalization, treatment and intervention, and other facets of mental health. __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber Last edited by sperbonzo; 02-13-2013 at 07:47 AM..

02-13-2013, 08:44 AM	#69
sarettah see you later, I'm gone Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 14,055	__________________ All cookies cleared!

02-13-2013, 08:47 AM	#70
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,457	__________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

02-13-2013, 07:08 AM	#54
Dirty F Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 59,204	Yup, one in every room. They call it freedom, i call it living in fear and being a total fucking idiot.

02-13-2013, 07:10 AM	#56
bl4h Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 1,282	dumb question. why wouldnt you want a semi automatic. i guess youd rather load a musket when someone is breaking into your home

02-13-2013, 07:22 AM	#62
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,152	Can someone give me a valid reason why I should care what someone from another country thinks about my countries laws? .

02-13-2013, 10:07 AM	#76
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,836	We need assault rifles for the zombie apocalypse. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

02-13-2013, 11:07 AM	#81
J. Falcon www.AdultCopywriters.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31,562	Meanwhile the next mass shooting is just around the corner, just wait and see. __________________ Adult Copywriters SEO Content for Porn Sites sales at adultcopywriters dot com

02-13-2013, 11:43 AM	#87
2013 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: lollling Posts: 4,390	cliff notes on thread?

02-13-2013, 11:46 AM	#89
dgraves Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 2,283	In most cases people want guns because they are fun. That part isn't always understood because we all like different things. Some people like to smack a little white ball around for hours trying to get it in a hole while others think it's stupid and a waste of time. Do we need semi-automatic weapons? No more than we need a fire extinguisher. You don't really "need" it but you want it in case you need it. This country is in serious dept and if and when things go to shit, guns and bullets will quickly turn into a very important "need" to protect your other vital needs like food, water, medicine, shelter. __________________ Gloryhole Swallow \| Cumpsters \| Spy Tug \| Cum Clinic \| Chica's Place

02-13-2013, 12:41 PM	#93
CyberHustler So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 25,214	Franck, why you so scared of armed Americans? Vast majority of people here will never get shot or robbed with a gun, what makes you so scared all the way in Weedsterdam?

02-13-2013, 01:07 PM	#95
grzepa Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,195	because handguns and rifles are NOT ENOUGH these days. __________________ Like X-ART !!

02-13-2013, 02:12 PM	#96
dgraves Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 2,283	I think it's a smart move on Obama's behalf. A president that is tanking the economy should make disarming citizens a priority. __________________ Gloryhole Swallow \| Cumpsters \| Spy Tug \| Cum Clinic \| Chica's Place Last edited by dgraves; 02-13-2013 at 02:25 PM..

02-13-2013, 03:01 PM	#100
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,382	100........semi automatic debates __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com