SwirlsGirl

U sure I checked the google search link you posted and saw a few more articles written by this gentlemen that were also good reads.

http://www.oregonherald.com/bnews/story.htm?id=619

http://www.oregonherald.com/bnews/story.htm?id=620

http://www.oregonherald.com/bnews/story.htm?id=587

signupdamnit

Yes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the people paying the fee wanting to know exactly where it is going. It's only in this industry and these parts where doing that makes you a conspiracy theorist or a hater rather than someone who just wants to make sure you are not being taken advantage of.

I don't know what is going on with it but I've read of some questions such as whether it is really required for a pay site to pay separate $500/whatever fees to each processor when doing a cascade. It's a valid question. Hopefully someone like MikeSouth will further dig into it.

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tonyparra

Good Points

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dyna mo

lol, ok,

100 words on a bear being captured.

a regurgitated 100 words on the chinese sewer baby and another 100 regurgitated words on the universe.

call pulitzer, this guy is prize worthy journalist.

arock10

Everyone else has to pay the MC and Visa fees. If this is too much money this biz is not worth your time

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Crazy Enough

1:300 is still possible if you know what you're doing.

Just don't expect using strategies from ten years ago, and still make the same money.

The Porn Nerd

The problem here, with the affiliate model, is twofold:

1. Affiliates competing against affiliates. Competition is always good, right? Wrong. Not when it comes to being an adult affiliate. Remember, these accursed tubes destroying the Industry and the affiliate model? They're affiliates. GIANT affiliates. Think Wal-Mart competing against the mom and pop hardware store in town.

2. Today, affiliates need to be more than just peddlers. Affiliates need to acquire skills they didn't need in the "good old days" like film editing, graphic design, webpage design, some scripting, server skills, writing skills, MARKETING skills...

Affiliates began relying on a Sponser's creatives; post some pre-made banners, submit some pre-made galleries, make money. But these were the same creatives thousands of other affiliates were using so of course the effect would be diminished over time.

My most successful affiliates are the tubes (naturally these days) and those affiliates with unique approaches and presentations of my content. Sure they may use a pre-made banner or two (I actually have killer designs available) but they will ADD to this by actually creating their own tours, banners, promo clips, articles, all kinds of things. I'm surprised and inspired when i visit these affiliates' creations. Sometimes I have to look twice to make sure they're an affiliate and not someone ripping off my designs because they look so professional! I'm sure when a surfer hits pages like these, then clicks through to MY site, their experience is seamless.

Paysite sales from being an affiliate is still possible, I have the proof of this in my inbox every day. But the times they have definitely changed.

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signupdamnit

Mr. Peabody, for sure you can still make pay site sales as an affiliate. And by doing a lot more work you might be able to up the amount of earnings from .1 to .3 cents per unique visit to something a little better.

But from the viewpoint of the affiliate why bother when there are other options which tend to earn more and are more stable? I think many affiliates have been affiliates for so long that they think selling pay sites is all they can do. But it's so different now. Man, even if they do sell you have to wonder if they will pay you. Then if you are on rev share you have to worry about whether the owner is going to shut it down with no notice which is now very typical. It's the "in" thing to do. Heck now many sell and neither the old owner or the new owner bothers to announce it. They just silently disable the affiliate links and then a month later when someone complains we all go "yeah it was sold". I think this is just going to get worse. As you said the tubes are your "best" "affiliates". So your (or any other sponsor) incentive to keep running a general affiliate program for others is at an all time low.

I think in your last sentence you basically agreed with me. It's possible for me to make a lot of money by ringing people's doorbells and asking if I can search their couch cushions for spare change. But that doesn't necessary mean it's my best option going forward.

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signupdamnit

It might still be possible but instead of being an 80% chance it's now a .01% chance. And the ratio is just part of it as I keep saying. The surfers don't click on what they know is a pay site because they know they will never pay. It's total disinterest.

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AllAboutCams

That ratio is with a pay site not cams

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slapass

You are wasting your time. Everyone on earth knows why selling porn has gotten harder. But a group here who are always going ot say adapt or die etc. This is true. We need to change since tubes are here to stay.

Barefootsies

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Nydahl

No big surprise - I stay out since porn industry has turned in selling for free.
You can just tell yourself that tubes are ok on and on - maybe you start to believe this nonsense 1 day

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Manfap

Partly, but creditcard rapage and torrents dont help.

mopek1

Can you name some ?

OldJeff

No one ever admits that, it is always, Tubes, filelockers, crooked billing companies, sponsors shavings, the moon is in the wrong phase, Obama is an illegal alien, 9/11 is an inside job.

Could not possibly be they don't know WTF they are doing

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Sly

Not sure why so many of you keep going on and on about this. You believe it's true, that's fine, why not move on to greener pastures? If you believe the adult industry is dead, why still here posting and complaining about it?

Those doing well will not convince those doing poor, those doing poor will not convince those doing well. Look out for yourself and move forward.

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signupdamnit

Sure man.

1. Sell traffic on a cpm basis
2. Sell ad spots
3. Mainstream (thousands of opportunities)
4. Open your own paysite and live off the tubes
5. Dating as an affiliate
6. Cams as an affiliate
7. Get a offline job
8. Sell webmaster services
9. Sell other online consumer services

#1, #2, #5, #6 are possible for nearly every porn affiliate right now. #5 and #6 aren't great as an affiliate in my opinion but there is more of a future there than selling paysites as an affiliate I bet. I think #3 is the best bet for most if they want to stay online and are unwilling to invest thousands. The hard part with mainstream is getting started. Otherwise #7 could be a great idea and an old fallback.

I guess the important thing is to just do something rather than watch it all slowly fade away further.

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signupdamnit

The topic isn't about the entire adult industry being dead. It's about being an affiliate selling pay sites and showing the current state of things as compared to before.

I've explained why I started the topic. I wanted to help other affiliates see it if they haven't seen it yet. The topic isn't for sponsors or reps. It's for pay site affiliates who are struggling.

Now I'd like to turn your question around. Why did you feel the need to make such a reply when you completely misunderstood the topic and saw it as something it clearly wasn't? Do you feel threatened or something by someone pointing out stuff like this? I don't get it.

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signupdamnit

I see the 2003 join date. If you want to argue with my original post then please provide the following for both 2013 and 2003-

Monthly profit from paysite affiliate programs in cents / monthly unique visitors to your sites = ?????

Estimate 2003 if you need to. Please post those values for both years and then feel free to tell me I am full of it. Thanks.

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Tom_PM

I'm just trying to show how different things are between 1999 and 2013 for the person who unboxes a new computer and types in "free porn" on any common search engine. I guess if they already know there is tons of free porn they're lost to us already. Seems about right to me.

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OldJeff

Here let me give you my industry join date, August 1997, I have not run a free site since 1999.

I buy traffic from affiliates, but I only deal with affiliates that can produce 10 sales a day or more.

and I maintain, most people that whine about shit on message boards do not know what the fuck they are doing. If you cannot achieve ratios better than 1:2000 the problem is not everything else, it is you

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signupdamnit

So you're not an affiliate then. I think you're a bit out of your place in this topic but hey whatever.

Can you provide the information requested for 2013 versus 2003 then as a sponsor or whatever you are then? Take what you earn as profit total in cents per month and then divide by monthly uniques to your sites. What is that number now versus ten years ago? You don't have to post the numbers you used to get it. Just the final ratio. It would be great to see how it's going for a sponsor in comparison. I only know the story for affiliates.

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OldJeff

Can I - Yes

Will I - No

For many reason, not the least of which is it is none of anyone's business what I make. What anyone was making by any measure (per join, click, or ass scratch) 10 years ago is completely irrelevant.

And THAT is why so many are broke, they are still hung up on yesterday, yesterday is over, gone, goodbye, so long, see you.

Concentrate on today's reality that is all you have to work with.

Some will make it some will fail what I do will not help webmaster x.

Cold hard reality of any business, 10 years ago I could buy Apple Stock at $10 a share (really wish I had) did they whine that they had a shitty computer and Microsoft / PC was kicking their ass, nope, they transformed themselves into the ultimate entertainment / communication giant and made BILLIONS.

There is far too much reminiscing about the good old days, there is opportunity for millions right there to be taken, some will take it, others will watch it pass them by.

Just like every other business

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mopek1

Mainstream is so different. I probably will go that route someday but still can't 'see' how to do it without selling snake oil.

dyna mo

thoughts on #4?

The Porn Nerd

While I agree an affiliate can make more promoting cams and dating the issue is also not every webmaster has the traffic necassary to make serious money with these models. I know that I make a paltry amount from my cams/dating affiliate work because, to me, you need tens of thousands of hits to really make bank with cams or dating.

Anyway, everyone must make a choice, of course. Deciding you can make more selling something else is as old as business itself. Good luck to everyone!!

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signupdamnit

Usually trends are considered pretty important in most businesses. A number such as profit per unique visitor or customer is usually considered to be pretty important. I don't think it's something most business people ignore. I'm pretty sure Microsoft or Apple isn't ignoring numbers like this.

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signupdamnit

It's been over a decade since I owned a pay site so I'm not the best person to ask. But based on my observations as an affiliate I think it's possible to make a middle class life doing that ($35k) and it's even probable. Some can make more but no one is getting rich and if they are there are special conditions. For instance don;t think you're going to become a millionaire because the guy who used to own a major tube and wants you to submit to his friend's CPP tells you he made a million dollars last year from his paysite. That's a special circumstance.

I think the problem with it is two fold:

1. Dwindling returns. As the amount of your free content and your competitors free content increases along with the amount of people who are willing to buy decreases there will be less return per video impression at the tube. There isn't anything revolutionary here. It's been happening for years and is the trend.

2. As the tubes realize they have you over a barrel and that you are dependent on them their terms will become less friendly. Instead of ten minute videos they will want 20. Instead of allowing you to put a big watermark on the video they will want no watermarks. Instead of letting you put up your videos without an affiliate program they will demand it. Then instead of taking rev share they will demand PPS. Then maybe instead of allowing any processor they will require that all traffic sent from them uses their approved processor. Then maybe one day you need to purchase a submitter's account as in the old TGP days or pay per submit. You get the picture.

If you do it then get the money while you can. Don't expect to get rich. Don't expect it to be easy. Expect diminishing returns month after month at some point. Expect increasing amounts of bullshit from the tubes. And be ready to get out by about 2016 or 2018. Maybe sooner.

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adendreams

Complaining about the ratios from a site that was selling 15 years ago....

Tired of hearing about piracy hurting aff's that previously made fast easy money sending internet surfers to a variety of scam or near-scam sites and programs (AVS? nothing beats looking through 3000 websites that have only garbage..but HEY you got access to 3000 sites!) Dialers! Cool lets rip off as many people as we can! Pre-checked X-sales great! Lets scare off guys from ever taking out another credit card for porn - but we made 60 bucks off the sucker! Membership site with only a small amount of crap in it - but Hey just LOOk at the GREAT TOUR!

Piracy is not to blame. Tubes are not to blame. You are to blame and only you.

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signupdamnit

It's tougher if you have morals. Many people bragging about making bank are doing payday loans and scams. But there is a lot out there which isn't as much of a scam - some people are making money from things like coupons and recipes. A good transitional one for people coming from adult is casual dating presuming you have any experience with adult dating.

The advantage the porn site affiliate has now is that it's not tough to make more in mainstream than you make in adult with porn sites. It's pretty easy because the revenue is down from paysites as an affiliate. If you go tell the guys in mainstream that you make one $20 sale in average on 50,000 unique visitors to your adult site you will be able to see their eyes bulge through the screen even though they might be 5,000 miles away from you.

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adendreams

Why would you be sending 2000 surfers to a program that only converts one of them?

This is the best evidence of the adapt or die webmaster choosing to die.

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dyna mo

appreciated.

i do think there are other areas to gather traffic from, good enough even to perhaps be focused on, for small/new, uniquely produced sites, over tube traffic because it's so very targeted. twitter, reddit, and imgur come to mind.

signupdamnit

Same question to you as to oldjeff.

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19652809&postcount=73

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Marquis85

And that's the reason why I won't ever pay for porn. Yes, I'm an affiliate. But would I ever pay for it? No because I don't trust any adult company with my card. Once I signed up to something years ago and got charged three times over. Never again.

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Colmike9

I make one $10-50 sale in 500-1500ish uniques with Really Useful Cash right now. You have to find what is new and selling constantly as an affiliate to do that as well as knowing how to be a salesman.

(Yeah, I work for them, but I have stats to prove it using only blogs..)

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adendreams

Bingo

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Marquis85

Personally, that's true for me. I rarely sign up to a new program nowadays without doing extensive research on them - mainstream or adult. And you know what? I've signed up to maybe 2 new programs over the last 6 months.

So many programs are either changing rules, shutting down, not paying, generally make it harder for their affiliates to convert.. I have to work hard to even get that sale and in the end I may get fucked over.. where's the incentive?

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signupdamnit

Most affiliates don't have an easy way of replacing links. Depending on their traffic generation methods it may not be possible for them to swap out one sponsor for another especially when sponsor content is being used.

1:2000 isn't bad for some types of traffic. For others it's horrible. But the ratio is nothing compared to the ctr and the effect it has. People simply don't click on what they know is a pay site because they have no intention of paying. I would gladly take a 1:5000 ratio with a 10% ctr over 1:1000 with a 0.5% ctr.

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signupdamnit

I'll look past you working for them. Is that uniques to your site or uniques to their site? Take the amount you make from them in pennies per month and divide that by the amount of monthly unique visitors on your sites where they are displayed. That's a much better way to measure. I think for most affiliates this will be pretty eye opening. It was for me.

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Colmike9

I'd have to do some digging to find total uniques on all of the blogs, I was talking about clicks to their site.

If I do your math for uniques to the site, it comes to 0.031. I'll get the number using uniques to the blogs in a bit.
(Hun listings that got no sales are going to kill that number, though.. lol)

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adendreams

Here is what surprises me about this biz - people expect things to just continue... just a free money box that should spit out magical digital dollars and how dare it if it slows down or stops.

Every other business I'm aware of requires constant adjusting to market conditions, innovating new strategies, changing business partnerships and affiliations...Breaking into new territories or demographics or products.

A website is like a movie - it makes some money from a few rev streams then it slowly drops off till finally its not making anyone any money anymore, some small royalties but thats it. (There are exceptions of course...some sites still growing bigger and bigger, but its not the norm)

Why do people think websites should continue to forever flow the same dollars they did 10...or even 5 years ago? Todays profitable sites EVOLVE to increase their longevity but there will always be the inevitable drop.

If you apply any kind of market trend analysis to the porn biz its clear that nothing has changed with regard to over all sales - people still spend the same percentage of their income on porn as they did 7-10 years ago (or MORE) - you just have to be smarter and more innovative to capture those dollars.

You want to place blame then blame the arrow of time and evolution.

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fuzebox

The most vocal of the complainers on this board are people who haven't really done anything new or interesting, and don't realize just how lucky they were to have even made money in the past.

DWB

Not sure what you're trying to sell, but it seems to be the wrong thing for the traffic you have.

OldJeff

One of the most intelligent posts EVER on this board

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Colmike9

+1

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xxxjay

Piracy, tubes...it will get worse before it gets better

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signupdamnit

The topic isn't about placing blame. That has been more people such as yourself coming in and telling others that they are lazy, stupid, ignorant,etc. and that things are better than ever (because you who aren't even an affiliate says so and insert your opinion with little or no facts relevant to affiliates here).

The point is that we are there. For most pay site affiliates out there I guarantee you that what I posted is the reality if not worse. 100,000 - 200,000 page views per sale. It's not just me. It's not something I made up.

You can't win chasing that game unless you throw huge numbers at it. You'll always be poor when you are operating under this type of equation.

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signupdamnit

Yes. Unfortunately they don't want pay sites. That's the point.

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