nikki99

can u please fix your shit and we start making sales together and make money as it used to be? thanks

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geedub

would you like some cheese with your whine?

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SwirlsGirl

Mom and Pop websites and affiliate programs closing down this year = 100's

Middlemen pseudo banking companies closing down this year = 0

why is that?

arock10

My guess is porn is still making a ton of money, but its concentrated to a much smaller % of companies then in the past. No conspiracy here, adult industry just continues to mature like any other industry

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FingerPrinter

Who knows...

DWB

Easy answer.

Mom and pop don't really know how to run a website or stay relevant in the rapid changing industry.

The "middle men" know how to run a business and have positioned themselves to play an important role in the industry. They can live without mom and pop, but mom and pop can't live without them.

signupdamnit

Sure. But I think the $/visitor is declining even for those who are benefiting from the consolidation. That's not technically maturing but it is following the standard business cycle and we are in the decline phase for paysites.

I think it has more to do with "because they can". No government is watching for monopolies or unfair business practices in porn unless it's watching for customers getting screwed. No government is interested in protecting ma and pop porn operators. It's open season on the smaller players as a way to increase earnings from a dying paysite industry. Visa and Mastercard (which are monopolies in themselves) does not help matters either.

If there were something like paypal for adult it could change things overnight. But part of the reason it doesn't exist is because the big players in adult don't want to see it. Imagine anyone with content being able to open a paysite in an hour while paying 2.9 to 5% + 0.50 per transaction regardless of volume. It would radically shift power back to the ma and pops as well as some affiliates.

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Fat Panda

ccbill has turned into such a fucking joke is laughable

dehash

Fuck... I just was about to switch all future blogs to CCBill. Want to hear more opinions - any good stories here?

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icymelon

ratios have been pretty terrible with ccbill. my guess is there might have been some fraud issues. So they had to clamp down hard to keep the chargeback ratios low to stay in compliance.

The question is why doesn't all the affiliate programs have a secondary processor to catch those sales. Epoche interfaces with the ccbill affiliate program problem solved.

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DWB

Why should the government protect mom and pop? How about, mom and pop works harder, does more volume, and gets their own merchant account?

No one is forcing mom and pop to use any one billing company. If you don't like the rates, don't use them or get more sales and negotiate a lower percentage. If you can't do that, look at where you're leaving money on the table and try to make up the difference somewhere. I'd wager most smaller sites who complain a lot leave a LOT of money on the table, or have user friendly disasters for sites.

Yea, I wish the 3rd party companies didn't charge so much or scrub so hard, but that's how it is if you want to use them. I can't complain much about it if I know going in what I'm getting. However, I can work my ass off to try to make my sites as sticky as possible and tweak them for optimal conversions, as well as find other ways to make money with the content and get the most out of each member who does join.

You gotta work with what you have.

PornDude

CCBill. Invest some money into new user friendly system.

anexsia

I get all of my traffic from the blogs I create and in all honesty I would highly recommend you don't make all of your blogs CCBill only. I see MUCH better ratios and sales from my blogs that promote sponsors who use NATS.

I was going to do the same thing you do and I'm so happy I chose not to use only CCBill sponsors because my CCBill ratios are not that great overall. Sure I have some really good ratios with some microniche CCBill sponsors with some decent rebills but for every good CCBill sponsor...I have 5 more that don't make shit.

looky_lou

I agree with OP. Worst first 10 days of the month with ccbill since 2004 for me.

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Socks

Do you have your own merchant account DWB or do you use CCBill?

fuzebox

/thread

deltav

Recently I sent them a fairly bitchy email about their dinosaur of a backend system & slow speeds, their reply gave me at least a glimpse of hope something'll be done. The gist was "we're aware of the issues and have some upgrades in development" - believe it when I see it, but at least they're acknowledging. I urge any other CCBill clients/webmasters to write them with your feedback/criticism too.

OP: are you saying "worst 10 days" meaning your sales were low, or just CCBill's recent outages & glitches? Tho the latter were & are annoying I didn't see any sales or ratio dropoffs.

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sojproductions

Yep, pretty poor first 10 days of the month here too... I do know there are some beta stats in testing, fingers crossed there is an improvement on the horizon

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BSleazy

Does ccbill notify site owners on declines?

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RyuLion

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deltav

Yup, webmasters are notified by default IIRC.

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ctggls

I don't understand why so many program still use the CCBill fail of billing provider. I'd use Verotel or Epoch which are very strong an reliable.

Like another WM said, I prefer sponsors that have NATS because they seem to convert better.

Part of the so called decline in sales I think is due to billing providers like CCBill not giving a shit because they make money anyway. When I check the CCBill stats, as an affiliate, I see a lot joinfrom clicks and sometimes 0 sales... Maybe CCBill should do something about that, like not allowing extra gazillions of cross-sales.

Why are cams not in the crisis? Do you see any serious cam programs using CCBill? Hell, I have quite some sales with Livejasmin who one might say that it's an supersaturated sponsor. Do you see on the join page of LJ : "buy 10 credits and also get a pass to etc.com that will renew automatically after 30 days and $39.99" ? No!

BSleazy

Cam sites can't afford to get raped by ccbill fees and still profit after model and affiliate expenses.

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deltav

Huh?? CCBill isn't forcing clients to put cross-sales pitches on their join pages - that's individual stupidity and despite CCBill's other faults they're in no way responsible for those. Bitch to the paysite owners who fail to recognize the current sales environment.

CCBill certainly has room for improvement and really do need to step up their game soon (i.e. modernize) or face a webmaster exodus. But I see a lot of webmasters using them - or whatever other processors or services - as a scapegoat for lazy marketing/design/business plans/whatever.

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ctggls

Deltav you are right and I'm not saying CCbill is forcing paysites to put cross-sales but I think that they should ban sites that do this. After all the surfer is paying for a certain product not for every cross sale.

Also I think is more convenient for certain paysites to put CCbill since most software solutions developer know how to implement CCBill.

Still I think that the decline in the industry is also fault of the payment processor.

NewOldPlayer

In June all the graduations start, so all the loose money is going towards family, gifts, etc.... some kids are out of school... or soon to be, and Dad can't surf for porn as much as he could normally. Start of June is usually bad. Gets better mid month, then dies again when the rent is due.

MainstreamGuy

Classic...

SwirlsGirl

I recently decided to stop using ccbill to bill for goods and services after getting fed up with false inaccurate stats and would you believe that overnight my sales have quadrupled and I have not had a 0 sales day in 4 months.

I repeat I personally removed ccbill as billing option for some goods and services and my sales and transaction thru put has quadrupled over night.

but too many around here are in wanton denial about the integrity of middle men and pseudo bankers

p.s. no extra traffic,no extra affiliates......simply removing ccbill payment option....there have been steady sales for about 4 months....with no more 0 sales days!!

I am Swirlsgirl and I approved this message

ctggls

There are lot of bad threads about CCbill lately an as an affiliate I wanna say that their backend for affiliates look like in the mid '90.
Just look at how the naughtyamerica signup page looks with epoch and most will understand why ccbill needs to go.

Good for you Swirlsgirl, letting go of ccbill was probably the best decision you've made to increase sales!

CurrentlySober

i like periods...

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dehash

Thank you.

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PornDude

It's funny when I see 0 form hits and 1 sale. CCBill, go do something about.

dehash

Bookmarked and paid few day later?

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The Porn Nerd

So Swirls, you keep bragging about quadrupling sales by switching processers so WHICH processer is now getting you these 4x sales?

Can a rep from this biller confirm this for us because I honestly don't believe you, sorry.

Name the processer please.

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deltav

Dude, just don't promote sites that precheck cross-sells like it's 1999. You're in control of who you do business with.

Also, far as "decline in the industry" being the fault of payment processors - do you remember what payment processing was like in the industry's "heydey" once upon a time?? Pretty much the Wild West, tons of unethical paysite practices, tons of fly-by-night processors pulling all sorts of shit and going under with webmasters' money, etc. Neither surfers nor webmasters trusted most of the processors then (and rightfully so), it's 10x better now.

This is indicative of a certain mindset, I think - low volume sites have a natural fluctuation in sales, when you're not processing a ton of transactions in general you're going to have "low days" where sales are minimal. This is natural. And webmasters then create theories about what happens, often there's some emotional component because they're pissed they're not making money and they see that big fat 0 on their transaction summary, so they look for a scapegoat. Payment processors are a convenient one. Or theories like the graduation one above.

Again I will fully agree CCBill needs to update their system. But to blame them completely for your sales magically declining the 1st 10 days of this month - I dunno about that. My sales have pretty much been normal for that period, or a tick above.

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PornDiscounts-V

Because consolidation shortens an economy. This shrinks quality of life on many levels. Your society suffers greatly. What is governments job if not to protect the rights of its citizens to have a quality life?

Major (Tom)

it's their bank. a little bird told me merrick is having very high decline rates nearing 60%
duke

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SwirlsGirl

I appreciate that ctggls and yes dropping them was not an easy decision but my own common sense and intellect told me that if a middle man can not even report our stats correctly or accurately then there is no confidence to be had with that middle man.

_Richard_

ur the one calling out fris?

pornmasta

I agree there is probably a problem with the sales.
i see only rebills...

SwirlsGirl

I honestly don't believe you don't believe me sorry! If you really doubt me put your wallet where your peabrain is and lets roll.

Actually find me 4 more skeptics like yourself and each of you place 1000 bucks in the possession of a neutral party and we can air this shit out!

But to just prove it to peabrainy because he is fucking clueless about doubling his own sales let alone quadrupling his sales....is offensive!

You want proof put up the fucking cash or kindly go rack your brain with another 50 how to get sales threads.

Peabrainy made a list of 10 things to do to increase sales....not quadruple but increase....so what he won't admit here is that if what swirlsgirls says is true...he is officially owned and so are many others.

Because he can make a list of 50 things to do and it may not increase sales ifhe keeps the same biller.

We did 1 power move and sales quadrupled we did not want to put it out there but we are not the only ones who have said this....many others have said on gfy that if you want to be successful and grow your business the first thing that needs to go is ccbill

All we have done is personally confirm and validate this to be a fact. And we feel obligated to mom and pop webmasters who are unaware of what we have discovered and are wondering if the industry is really as dead as the middle men falsely report!@

tonyparra

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ctggls

Just look at how the affiliates control panel looks like for CCBill .... it looks like the '80 without the possibility of seeing refering url and so on... Everything about the looks untrustable...

The Porn Nerd

Thanks for not answering the question.

So you replaced CCBill with verotel or did you have BOTH CCbill AND Verotel before but now only have Verotel?

Amazing how direct questions seem to phase you Sara.
Besides, I should be directing these questions to Beaner.

BTW: Others on here claiming quadruple sales with verotel over CCBill are full of shite. Just sayin'.

PS: No one will ever take you seriously if you resort to childish name-calling, something I have never done to you. (This goes for many on GFY.)
Again, Just sayin'.

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DamianJ

So that means you'll stop your conspiracy threads?

Excellent!

arock10

Verotel is a middle man too....

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sigurman

You are using only ccbill as a biller?

SwirlsGirl

Peabody you have resorted to name calling and insults directly towards me in the past, and I have seen you take pot shots at me several times so I do not feel pitty for you.

Having said that we don't have to take pot shots at each from this point on.

For whatever reason you rubbed me the wrong way its water under the bridge.

I still stand by my statement and I say it one last time....please read carefully as to not put words in my posts for me...

After removing ccbill as biller for some of my goods and services and replacing them with a more reputable biller we have not had a 0 sales day in 4 months and sales have quadrupled....*WITHOUT EXTRA TRAFFIC OR AFFILIATES*

Make of it what you will it is astonishing and an absolute fact I that I have nothing to gain by fabricating nor do I gain anything from sharing with you this info because I will admit it *does* sound hard to believe but it is the case.

It certainly does make me want to ask more questions at some point but right now my head is still spinning at the fact that by mere removal of a certain 3rd party billing company from processing transactions and replacing them with another processor instantly quadrupled transactions.

This is all I will say about it from this point out...you guys can take it or leave it...I could care less...I have done my part by sharing the info and shattering the myth that the industry is totally dead

nikki99

I trust in ccbill they will fix it and everything will be good again

it's a sunny day today and is almost winter

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Bladewire

You didn't share the info of who the processor is that you replaced CCBill with, at least not in the above post.

Who did you replace CCBill with?

Answering the above question is sharing info, anything else is propagating innuendo.