Serge Litehead

You can treat your bitcoin income as hobby, gambling or bartering according to the article:

http://www.nextgov.com/cybersecurity...bitcoin/65051/

IRS decided to let the market's mature before coming up with new tax codes for it due to other priorities and no avail. resources.

So, it's official - bitcoin is here to stay, for those who didn't realize still that this tech cannot simply be undone or banned.

Funny though how FinCen, IRS and GAO do not treat Bitcoin as play monopoly money or pyramid scheme or whatever else. Gotta wonder why. out of all places preaching "adopt or die" some folks here stuck in past century with their real tangible paper money with different value representations on 'em that they can touch and feel, that is gov. backed until serious financial crisis that is - then value - pufff, is gone; which is the real property of real current money, unfortunately.

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Serge Litehead

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/...coins-20130618

Now, the Internal Revenue Service (via the GAO's report) is giving taxpayers some ad-hoc, unofficial guidance, complete with hypothetical examples.

• If you're playing a massively multiplayer online game like World of Warcraft (yes, the report actually cites WoW by name) but don't convert your in-game gold to real-life dollars, you haven't made any money and you don't owe any income taxes on your gameplay.
• If you trade virtual goods and services for virtual currency, you "may" have earned income and you have to report it.
• If you trade real-world goods and services for virtual currency, that might also result in taxable income.
• If you earned virtual income (say, by renting out property on SecondLife) and convert those earnings into dollars, you've earned taxable income.
• If you successfully mine a batch of bitcoins, that's taxable income.

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DWB

That is all common sense. Most people who don't live in Bitcoinland have been saying that from day one while Bitboys held onto the idea that since nothing was directly said about it, it was exempt. It doesn't matter how you make money or by what means, it is taxable.

- Jesus Christ -

Good luck proving who owns what.

http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdf

I would say "haters gonna hate", but its more like "haters say dumb shit and keep making government threats."

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Amen

L-Pink

Well stated. To bad Franck isn't here to call you an idiot. Lol

- Jesus Christ -

"If we reinforce each others stupidity on a topic we feel better."

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Amen

L-Pink

So owing taxes on income is stupid? Really? Can I have the name of your account I've foolishly been paying taxes every year on income earned.

- Jesus Christ -

Does a free man own the product of his labor or not?

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Amen

Serge Litehead

Business oriented bitcoin guys and simply people with common sense understood from day one that any kind of income is taxable.

Most people on both sides of a fence manage to produce fair amount of wild BS assumptions without further thinking or researching regards what they're talking about.

Who wants to play fair will play fair no matter in what currency they're dealing in and those who step over rules are going to do just that with or without bitcoin, nothing has changed in this sense with introduction of Bitcoin.

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L-Pink

If a man wants to remain free he better pay his taxes.

But that's a personal choice …….


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seeandsee

Too bad for people that got it over 200$, they are in deep shit now

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Agreed.

We've been treating it as an investment (that is taxable) since the get go anyone who treats it otherwise is just being stupid, the IRS will at some point likely find out about it.

Whether that be thru regulation of the exchanges or seizing exchanges and gathering their data, the IRS will eventually discover the amount of taxes owed by people.

That is, if they aren't to busy trying to clean up their scandal

DWB

That is the easy part if you're cashing out your bitcoins for USD. Dwolla or whoever you may use has to report all of that and it is no longer anonymous. The only way it will go unnoticed is if you don't exchange the bitcoins for anything and just keep whatever gains you made in your wallet. But even mtgox has to report now and members must be verified, so like banking in general, it is more difficult to "hide" your coins.

It has nothing to do with "haters" and everything to do with the regulations placed on the companies involved in bitcoin, just like everyone with a brain predicted would happen.


Your first mistake is thinking you're a free man.

+1 Propaganda Machine

Since the big bitcoin crash where it fell from $200+ to where it is now, you've sounded awfully bitter. How much did you lose?

BTW... when does your JohnnyClips nick get unbanned? That one is a lot of fun, looking forward to the return of the lizard people.

Serge Litehead

gee dude, lulz

seeandsee's mind:
"we will never see $200 again, ever! poor poor people who are early adopters, they got in on a peak and now they're fucked for the rest of their lives and i'm fucked for believing that Frank dude last moment, when price was $266 and i foolishly believed it will rise up forever till i be a billionare. but i never truly believed this fake-ponzy-scheme-internet-virtual-currency is real. no, no way a hash string with balance in it can be used as a real world means of exchanging value. oh why they want to break out off expensive and slow to move, outdated paper legacy money, which values can be easily manipulated with inflation/deflation, wars funded... and that me losing value over time on my hard-earned money is the best kind of money humanity could come up with."
(in much simpler terms)


dood, you will see your $200 btc by end of year, or even next month. cheers

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adultmobile

Meanwhile in Ukraine:

June 11, 2013: The Ukrainian tax authorities have frozen $7.5 million held in the bank accounts of Ukraine division of WebMoney. Database is in Russia, so you can login webmoney; but you can't withdrawn to your bank account if you live in Ukraine. Kiev office: many computer used for the system's operation it was seized. A group of plain-clothes people, referring to themselves as the Incomes Ministry staff, arrived in WebMoney's Kyiv office with an unscheduled inspection. Reason: tax evasion, no coordinated with (authorized by) the national Bank of Ukraine. NBU Previously stated: WebMoney and Yandex are not agreeable by ukraine Article 15 of the Law (On Payment Systems and Funds Transfer in Ukraine). Determines that the issuance of electronic money may be carried out only by a bank.

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TubeCamGirl.com

DWB

I couldn't possibly predict the price either way, but what makes you believe it will go back to $200?

It seems stable where it is now. Possibly where it should be?

helterskelter808

Why do Bitcoin fanboys always sound like they're trying to convince themselves?

dyna mo

go on and take your lumps anti-bitcoiners.

so much for you adamantly clinging to your view that btc is a ponzi and *the goberments* gonna shut it down and i am going to lol and lol at you for thinking this is valid.

another checkmark of proof of concept.

Serge Litehead

google news: bitcoin and tell me all the recent news like i posted above are not positive news? FinCEN/IRS has no issues with bitcoin at the moment, they want see their current regs applied to money business services and transmitters. this should clear up all paranoia about legitimacy of bitcoin. this is start of another rally or possibly new hype wave ;)

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helterskelter808

By posting that it will go up to $200 everyone will obviously rush out and buy some, thus pushing it up to $200.

Serge Litehead

heheh.. not some long time ago when price was stuck around $3-7 for half a year, i though $100 btc was far away.

with seeing how US gov reacts and almost babysits this bitcoin phenomenon atm, 100, 200, 300, 500 is not a top limit and imo not far fetched either.

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helterskelter808

The 'concept' was an anonymous currency that unchained us from *the goberments*. At least that's all I heard from bitards. Turns out it's not anonymous and it's taxable. Which I'm fairly sure 'anti-bitcoiners' said all along.

So it has none of the advantages of real money -- such as the small matter of being able to buy stuff with it -- but all of the disadvantages of real money.

In fact real money -- existing in the real world, as an untracked item passed from human to human -- is if anything more anonymous than bitcoin and more easy to 'forget' cutting the goberments in on.

DWB

What the IRS says about taxing bitcoin is irrelevant to its survival. When The FED gives it a thumbs up, then that is positive news. What the IRS said it just common sense that everyone already knew.

baddog

Don't waste your time; he thinks he is smarter/above us all.

Serge Litehead

why anti-bitcoiners are so primitive in their minds sometimes with their logic and thought process?

how can you expect something new and radical being accepted worldwide instantly for you to be able to buy any kinds of stuff anywhere in real world the next moment?

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TheSquealer

Any revenue agent can wake up one day and declare that you owe the IRS money and its up to you to prove you don't. Good luck with explaining that your gains are not taxable.

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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

dyna mo

no.

you are confusing the bitcoin experiment with exchanges. exchanges popped up as a result of the bitcoin concept, not part and partial.

it's a common mistake people make when they don't understand.

dyna mo

that already happened. fincen is the fed. they make a public statement months ago.

dyna mo

too funny, antibitcoiners just can't face facts.

why not admit it's not going according to your plans?

go on.

Serge Litehead

lol, no, you don't mean unrealized gains? ))

lol funny thing only anti-bitcoiners blubber about tax evasions fantasizing about bitcoiners being under IRS scrutiny.

no one saine on pro side comes up with this bullshit. if you push fiat in and out digitally it is reported and one needs to be out of their mind not to include them in their taxes.

guys drink coffee and don't say stupid idiotic shit without thinking through what you want to say at least couple of times, before typing it up.

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BlackCrayon

meanwhile there is a poster on gfy who thinks bitcoin will put an end to income taxes and fiat money...

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_Richard_

L-Pink

helterskelter808

Even more common: people inanely saying "you don't understand" rather than being able to formulate an actual thought out rebuttal or argument.

Without the ability to exchange bitcoins into real actual spendable money Bitcoin is completely redundant. Which may explain why absolutely nobody at all in the universe gave a single shit about Bitcoin until exchanges came along.

Serge Litehead

bitcoin is a more solid form of money than fiat. how it will turn out for both in the future we will have to wait and find out. bitcoin could be abandoned or fiat, or they could co-exist, or fiat gets some bitcoin technical inspiration and gives us new form of fiat... regulating bitcoin in to underground will do no good to regulators - that's out of question for time being.

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dyna mo

i've easily made 500+ posts around here re: btc, most of them an effort to share info and links that i've come across in my activity with it.

so no need to continue going on with things you are not informed about like even suggesting i can't formulate a rational thought re: btc, that's truly funny.

and exchanges are not needed for bitcoins to work or be transacted or shared or exchanged for that matter.

Serge Litehead

lets apply your logic to a web site and its traffic. you build a site. by your logic, your site is complete and utter shit ONLY because no one knows about it! fair enough you say. continuing with your logic you then should just stop working on your site because the world did not come to see your site the moment you put it up online. no one needs your site, no need to promote it and work on it further. internet is useless. the end. game over.

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BlackCrayon

my point was that people on both sides can say some pretty stupid things. i'd still argue that its not a more solid form of money currently. it fluctuates too much. my $1 can buy a loaf of bread today and tomorrow whereas bitcoin might cost me more or less from one day to the next. i'm sure there will be a government backed virtual currency that comes out eventually.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

helterskelter808

Thanks for your fascinating posting history stats, even though I don't remember asking for them.

So why am I still waiting to hear one?

So what? I can trade shells with people on the beach, but if nobody accepts them as 'payment' for anything else then it's an exercise in complete futility.

I'm not saying stop 'working on' bitcoins, whatever that means. I'm saying that without a method of exchanging bitcoins into real actual money, Bitcoin is pointless, redundant and of no use at all.

dyna_mo seems to think otherwise, but rather than using his replies to back up what he's saying, he seems to think simply disagreeing is enough.

dyna mo

what makes you think i am here to clear up your misconceptions? certainly you should know by now peeps here don't change their minds. you = proofs of that because if you wanted to learn you would go out and learn instead of trying to make it a drama issue about me.

so don't expect that high school logic to fly, go clear up your own misconceptions, they truth is out there.

helterskelter808

^ So not only clueless, but delusional too. You can't clear jack shit up here because to do so you'd have to clear your own addled mind first.

As for you bawling like a pussy about 'making a drama about you', you replied to me, you stupid fuck.

If you don't want me to refer to the stupid, inane, brainless shit you post, then do not direct your stupid, inane, brainless shit in my direction.

Serge Litehead

the exchange value is irrelevant to solidness of technical aspect of the network and its protocol. Bitcoin network processes transactions the same way whether bitcoin evaluates at $1 or $1,000.

the seemingly stable dollar used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for a few cents if not for a penny back in the day, you and I don't remember that and it is kind of irrelevant to us what the prices and purchasing power were before our time. although the dollar is sort of the same, the loaf of bread is sort of the same, only 100 years later the same loaf of bread costs what, 100-500 times more. and your grand grand kids wont be able to buy a loaf of bread for the same price you pay today.

*IF* once bitcoin gets its momentum and stabilizes with significant volumes and value and more commercial use instead of speculative trading, then we'll see how dollar fluctuates and its dynamics of weakening value when paired against with bitcoin. for now it seemingly stable being world's reserve currency, everything is pegged to it. we pray china won't dump their usd and mainly other US securities. else the bread could end up costing hundreds of solid dollar bills not to mentioned global crisis, depression, civil unrest.

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BlackCrayon

sure but i am talking about the here and now. of course over time things will happen to make a dollar worth less or worth more but with bitcoin, its value can change from day to day so much its crazy. if bitcoin does ever "completely" stabilize then all the people holding bitcoins for investment/speculation reasons will most likely get out causing a crash in the price of bitcoin.

i stopped posting in bitcoin threads because what will happen is anyone's best guess but i think its safer to assume bad things will happen with bitcoin rather than good simply because its so new, not well understood and has a huge uphill battle to become commonplace. we both have our views and biases but i thikn people like myself are looking at it more objectively than people like yourself who i assume have a vested interest in it.

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The value of *any* currency changes from day to day too so that isn't really a good comparison imho.

I'm sure when credit cards were originally introduced people said the same thing... Have all your money on a piece of plastic, I'm sure something bad is going to happen with that...

Do I have a vested interest in Bitcoin? Yes. I want to see the value go through the roof, but that is based on what I currently have in my wallet, in bitcoin stocks and other intangible assets, my initial investment was made back in 2 weeks of depositing when BTC started to fluctuate wildly, as well as regular monthly withdrawals of pure profit since right now I'm riding on 'free' money (once withdrawn) so if BTC drops or raises I don't really care, I got out much more than I put in anything above and beyond that is gravy.

BlackCrayon

the value of currency changes against other currencies but not so much within itself. i can go into the store and buy a loaf of bread today for 1.99, i can do the same 2 months from now. if i buy with bitcoin, i might of paid 2.99 for something worth 1.99 or .99 for something worth 1.99...all in the same day. sure the loaf of bread might go up .32 cents within the year but its not comparable. as for the credit card comparison...well i guess you missed the key word...credit. its not someone's actually money. i'd like to see bitcoin not be used for investment buy/sell purposes but actually commerce. that's what it was meant for, that's what it should be used for. if you kicked out everyone who bought for investment reasons, it would be worthless because next to no one is using it for its actual purpose.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

dyna mo

why so aggro? is your need to cling to your lack of understanding about bitcoins so important to you that you flip out like this in defense?

moreover, you should also realize this is really not the place to get your bitcoin info. i mean you could do a search here, you would find a ton, you obviously didn't even do that, instead choosing to go off on me for not going out of my way to correct you.

facialfreak

If you need somewhere to spend your bitcoins ... so you do not have to convert them into fiat, and thus you do not owe any taxes on them ....

A1 Web Solutions now accepts bitcoin at going rates (-no premiums for cashing them out) for all of our hosting plans.

Bitcoin checkout has been integrated already for our VPS plans, but contact us and we will accept bitcoins for any shared or dedicated plans as well.

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pimpmaster9000

well the US gov seized 1mdc that was EXACTLY like bitcoins a few years back but don't let that stand in the way of your PDF...egold went down 2 years after...

you digital currency noobs are always good for a laugh

they dont have to "prove" shit...they just seize...its what the US gov does...

L-Pink

"and thus you do not owe any taxes on them" ? The only way no taxes are owed is if no profit was made. Nice that your company is promoting tax evasion.


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facialfreak

TAX EVASION MY ASS!!

Bitcoins have no value (to the IRS) UNTIL THEY ARE CONVERTED INTO FIAT (USD) CURRENCY.

When our company converts them to cash value, yes taxes will be paid on them! So please tell me again how we are promoting tax evasion????

I have a university degree in accounting and business maths, and I am a Certified Management Accountant.

Are you going to tell me that depositing personal checks into your credit card account -- to be applied towards paying your credit card is tax evasion too? Hahahaha

Lets call paying rent or buying new office equipment tax evasion while we're at it ...

TROLLING FAIL!!!

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