crockett

Something I've noticed is here in the US the media and govt have been very good at making this whole thing a Snowden issue. Just like with Manning.

There was very little discussion about if the US govt was acting badly. It's all about Snowden , Manning.. ect ect.

I just wanted to say as an American.. This shouldn't be about either of these two guys.. This is the US govt acting badly. This isn't a right or a left issue.. It's a issue of our govt being out of control.

That should be the real focus.. Not Manning or Snowden they are just the messengers.

pornmasta

Successful police state is successful

dyna mo

more like shitty media is shitty

directly from the aclu::::::::::::::

To hear some in the press tell it, Congress could not be more indifferent to the recent revelations that the NSA is collecting all of the phone records of all law-abiding Americans.

But the press, and the American people, shouldn't write off Congress just yet: a civil-libertarian energy is stirring.

Since the Guardian broke the story about the NSA's bulk collection of innocent Americans' call records, many members of Congress have been pushing back at blanket government surveillance. They've made statement after statement criticizing the government's broad collection programs. Some have even argued there is no evidence these programs have thwarted attacks.

But most tellingly, legislators are filing legislation left and right to compel more disclosure about these programs and rein them in. The bills are coming from both Democrats and Republicans, including members who voted for the Patriot Act in the past but feel misled about how it's been used.

In little less than 3 weeks, six bipartisan pieces of legislation to rollback NSA spying have been introduced:

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-se...continues-grow

defunk

did snowden do something bad for the country as a whole? sure did. did he expose something that could be against your 3rd/4th amendments in the constitution (I think so but I'm Canadian, not sure).

everyone I talk to up hear said they don't care as long as is stopped terrorism.

I think were fucked.

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MaDalton

to learn that the NSA wired EU offices and considers us targets is not pretty

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crockett

Its not just about domestic spying. We have been tapping direct phone lines of the EU offices. Not to mention so called US allies such as Germany.

This isn't normal spy games that everyone is doing. The is our govt out of control.

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Mutt

if you know about it so does everybody else - you're not special. most people don't care.

as far as them spying on allies, that will be a shitstorm and deservedly so.

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dyna mo

sure it is. tapping phones lines goes way back in the spy game.

crockett

Honestly I really hope the EU go ape shit over this as they should. Countries like Germany and others directly targeted should come together and give the US govt a bit of smack down on the political arena.

The US populace is far to fat and lazy to do anything.. So we must depend on other countries to do the right thing.

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dyna mo

y'all really think this spying on each other is new? this team effort should prove that we all spy on each other.

OTTAWA -- Leaked documents suggest Canada helped the United States and Britain spy on participants at the London G20 summit four years ago.
Britain's Guardian newspaper says spies monitored the computers and intercepted the phone calls of foreign politicians and officials at two G20 meetings in London in 2009.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada-...#ixzz2Xirzf83M

dyna mo

why do you deny the proof i posted? just want to rant about shit in spite of efforts to the contrary?

crockett

Because you seem to think its OK. You are part of the problem.

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MaDalton

they are going ape shit right now...

the whole free trade treaty is probably being put on hold as well

"the straw that broke the camels back"

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dyna mo

you're a fucking idiot. you pull shit out of your ass like that based on my CUTTING & PASTING an aclu article verbatim moron. how is that me thinking it's ok and therefor i am part of the problem?

keep bitching like a 13 year old little girl in public, and also keep up the good work on misplacing focus with your bipartisan bullshit.


fucking idiot can't even support your missplaced view, maybe that's because i shoved it up your ass by showing you the aclu thinks you are an idiot.

dyna mo

piece of shit congress has passed ~12 bills in the 6 months of 2013 yet has shit 6 new bills in the 3 weeks since snowden yet dipshit op hears on fox news about snowden and concludes nothing is getting done in response.

lolz.

dyna mo

the most hilarious part of this post is how you would rather stay adversarial/confrontational rather than try to debate the issue.


if you want change, you can't come here and bitch about no change then when you get the chance to dialogue with someone you *think* has a view that is wrong/not your's, you instantly discount them by pointing your shitty finger at them as part of the problem instead of trying to work together to be the solution.

i guess we should eradicate the problem in your eyes, eh hitler?

fucking jack ass hypocrite. you're fucking logic is 3rd grade level.

dyna mo

if my view means the fuckwad op thinks i am part of the problem then i know i am on the right side of the argument.


that's how fukcing stupid this thread is

dyna mo

yeah america has a lock on spying on allies, this is ground-breaking shit!

Clare Short, a British cabinet minister who resigned in May 2003 over the war, stated in media interviews that British intelligence regularly spied on UN officials. She stated that she had read transcripts of Kofi Annan's conversations.[2][9][10]
On February 26, 2004 Short alleged on the BBC Today radio programme that British spies regularly intercept UN communications, including those of Kofi Annan, its Secretary-General. The revelation came the day after the unexplained dropping of whistleblowing charges against former GCHQ translator Katharine Gun.[11] Reacting to Short's statement, Tony Blair said "I really do regard what Clare Short has said this morning as totally irresponsible, and entirely consistent [with Short's character]."

dyna mo

six bipartisan pieces of legislation to rollback NSA spying have been introduced:

The LIBERT-E Act (H.R. 2399)?from Reps. Conyers (D-Mich.), Amash (R-Mich.), and 31 other bipartisan cosponsors?would limit Section 215 of the Patriot Act and force disclosure of the secret court orders and/or legal reasoning behind all of these surveillance programs.

The Ending Secret Law Act (S. 1130 and H.R. 2475)?sponsored by Sens. Merkley (D-Ore.), Lee (R-Utah) and 10 others in the Senate and Reps Schiff (D-Calif.), Rokita (R-Idaho) and five others in the House?forces the administration to release the secret court orders that have interpreted this statute and our constitutional rights. If disclosure would harm national security, the attorney general would have to write and release an unclassified summary of the secret court orders or explain why they can't. This language got 37 "yes" votes on the Senate floor during the FISA debate this past December.
S. 1182?from Sens. Udall (D-Colo.), Merkley, and five other bipartisan Senators?would tighten the requirements for getting a Patriot Section 215 order.

The Restore Our Privacy Act (S. 1168) from Sen. Sanders (I-Vt.) would require the government to state with specific and articulable facts why each thing sought is relevant to an investigation.

The Fourth Amendment Restoration Act (S. 1037), introduced by Sen. Paul (R-Ky.), would direct the government to interpret the Fourth Amendment as prohibiting searches of phone records without a warrant based on probable cause in both intelligence and criminal investigations.

And yesterday Senate Judiciary Chairman Leahy (D-Vt.) introduced the FISA Accountability and Privacy Protection Act based on his past Patriot Act reform bills to rein in the Patriot Act and increase transparency.

Captain Kawaii

The US Gov and media are owned and controlled by an outside State. Until that changes, if it can be changed at all, nothing will change. Targeting the individuals is only an attempt to point people in another direction besides the facts and truths that were revealed. People learning the truth about the gov and the media would be very harmful to the outside State asserting control.

I also find it funny, the comments coming out of the "Dark One", (refers to his energy not his color) as he tours Africa.

Inspired by Mandela? -- Hardly.

My only solace used to be that China was unaffected by the external State. Now it appears Goldman Sachs has taken care of China. Next decade will be interesting...and frightening.

crockett

Dyno mo's button was pushed it seems...

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dyna mo

not at all. but if you wanna try and go full retard on me for simply c&p'ing an article, res assured i can play at your level.

Captain Kawaii

Found this site by rabbit holing a Yahoo article

http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/0...eillance-grid/

pornmasta

not here.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...0311372572103/

dyna mo

that's been on the news cycle here since it came out.

sarettah

Nothing new under the sun.

From December 1985

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6862,7513033



.

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seeandsee

lol spying alies is old as world i think, and they are so in shock now, lol

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Rochard

It comes from years and years of playing this game. The US government can make a spy look very bad very quickly. Nothing new. Snowden should have known this.

Everybody fucking does this. They just usually don't get caught.

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slapass

The bad news is that Americans have thought this was going on all along and feel it should be going on. I bet most Europeans agree.

PhoneSexKing

dyna mo has the candor of your typical meth addict, and the judgement of a canary.

Maybe he should calm down, stop picking crank bugs, and take a hit already.

faxxaff

I value civil liberties as the most important thing in the world. I hope a civilized European country will grant asylum to Snowden and he reveals it all.

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ReggieDurango

Am I the only one who does not give a single fuck if some nsa geeks are listening to my phone calls or tapping my phone? I'm not talking about building bombs or committing terrorist acts, so what the hell do I care?
Let them listen and jerk off as my girl talks dirty to me !

MaDalton

are you really that naive?

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faxxaff

Maybe they are suspecting your are doing something wrong and they forward your info to IRS or immigration? Maybe you say something that is considered discrimination? Or you talk about an offshore bank account? Or you might be considered a drug addict, communist or gay? Whatever. They can take steps to make your life miserable .....

So many things that they can misinterpret. Much better they don't have any info at all.

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crockett

Did you know they also have access to your financial history and bank records?

What's the point in right to privacy if we have none?

Should we just crumple up the constitution and toss it away because some people are lazy and don't care about their rights?

Jel

No, Rochard is with you on that. Baffles the fuck outta me, but hey, you're entitled to your opinion etc so crack on

theking

Not that I approve of either entity having as much information as they do...but between big business and the government...one has little privacy...and both possess pretty much the same information...and this has been the case for many years.

Tough it irritates me to some extent...I really do not care...as it does not effect my day to day life. I do as I choose to do.

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Rochard

There is no such thing as privacy today. They know who you are and what you want.

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Jel

damn, big businesses have access to my bank account, social security number, driving licence, tax returns, my private phone calls/sms messages, etc?

I'm well out of the loop it seems.

Jel

Do all you i-have-nothing-to-hide-so-crack-on people feel that if say, your neighbour was listening to all your calls, your privacy has been invaded? Or as you have nothing to hide, it really doesn't matter a fuck at all? Just out of interest.

theking

The answer is pretty much yes...businesses...exhange/buy/sell your data so they eventually have almost 100% of what you may consider to be private information.

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theking

Our privacy has been invaded and it has been that way for years and as long as it is little more than an irritant to me...I really do not care. Do I approve of the way things are...no.

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pornmasta

and if they discover something that could destroy your business ?

Jel

lol, behave. They have all my phone calls? And my bank statements? Stop, you're killing me

Jel

I can dig what you're saying there But, specifically, your neighbours, able to listen to every phone call you make, if they so choose - would you care?

Fetish Gimp

I don't think George Orwell could have ever imagined so many being proudly indifferent to Big Brother's spying.

Privacy used to be a right.
It is now a privilege.
Soon it will be a crime.

And not a single person will give a flying fuck

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theking

Yes...sport. if you have a land line service or if you use a cell phone there is a record of all of the phone calls made. I do not know if any company other than your bank has a record of your bank statements but your overall financial status is shared by multiple companies.

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dyna mo

yes, by actually providing pertinent and real information re: the topic and attempting to participate in discussing it, instead of just joining in the bitchfest or not even contributing, like yourself, i am part of the problem, act like a doper and think like a small bird.

got it.

theking

I would care to the point that I would at the least attempt to have them prosecuted and at the most I would personally attempt to put a stop to it

BTW...I just was made aware that you live in the UK and I do not know what may be applicable to the UK..

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Jel

Ok, you specifically said, that a bunch of companies have a record of all my phone calls, and all my bank statements, just like the gov't has, on account of them buying/selling data, to the tune of pretty much 100% of what I consider private. Which is way different to the above quote, which I already knew, on account of not being a complete idiot (just a partial one )