Today is the birth of a nation

[theking]

...I salute the forefathers and those that lay down their lives for this...my country.

[SuckOnThis]

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

[Barry-xlovecam]

Those ^^^ are Spaniards -- who's laughing now?

Took brass balls in 1776, Hooyah!

[Cleo]

Just wait until aliens thousands of years more advanced than we are land in their spaceships and decide that us humans are in the way.

[Dankasaur]

On this date 237 years ago we teabagged the shit outta England. 'Merica.

[CT-Content]

Originally Posted by theking

...I salute the forefathers and those that lay down their lives for this...my country.

Perhaps we can revise our forefathers Constitution and rid this country of the Islamic mosques. Not with-standing, I drive five miles from my house and I feel like I'm in fucking Calcutta! - What's happened to this country ?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

On this date 237 years ago we teabagged the shit outta England. 'Merica.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by Cleo

Just wait until aliens thousands of years more advanced than we are land in their spaceships and decide that us humans are in the way.

ADG

[DWB]

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by DWB

A wise man...

AUTHENTIC TEXT OF CHIEF SEATTLE'S TREATY ORATION 1854
Yonder sky that has wept tears of compassion upon my people for centuries untold, and which to us appears changeless and eternal, may change. Today is fair. Tomorrow it may be overcast with clouds. My words are like the stars that never change. Whatever Seattle says, the great chief at Washington can rely upon with as much certainty as he can upon the return of the sun or the seasons. The white chief says that Big Chief at Washington sends us greetings of friendship and goodwill. This is kind of him for we know he has little need of our friendship in return. His people are many. They are like the grass that covers vast prairies. My people are few. They resemble the scattering trees of a storm-swept plain. The great, and I presume -- good, White Chief sends us word that he wishes to buy our land but is willing to allow us enough to live comfortably. This indeed appears just, even generous, for the Red Man no longer has rights that he need respect, and the offer may be wise, also, as we are no longer in need of an extensive country.

There was a time when our people covered the land as the waves of a wind-ruffled sea cover its shell-paved floor, but that time long since passed away with the greatness of tribes that are now but a mournful memory. I will not dwell on, nor mourn over, our untimely decay, nor reproach my paleface brothers with hastening it, as we too may have been somewhat to blame.

Youth is impulsive. When our young men grow angry at some real or imaginary wrong, and disfigure their faces with black paint, it denotes that their hearts are black, and that they are often cruel and relentless, and our old men and old women are unable to restrain them. Thus it has ever been. Thus it was when the white man began to push our forefathers ever westward. But let us hope that the hostilities between us may never return. We would have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Revenge by young men is considered gain, even at the cost of their own lives, but old men who stay at home in times of war, and mothers who have sons to lose, know better.

Our good father in Washington--for I presume he is now our father as well as yours, since King George has moved his boundaries further north--our great and good father, I say, sends us word that if we do as he desires he will protect us. His brave warriors will be to us a bristling wall of strength, and his wonderful ships of war will fill our harbors, so that our ancient enemies far to the northward -- the Haidas and Tsimshians -- will cease to frighten our women, children, and old men. Then in reality he will be our father and we his children. But can that ever be? Your God is not our God! Your God loves your people and hates mine! He folds his strong protecting arms lovingly about the paleface and leads him by the hand as a father leads an infant son. But, He has forsaken His Red children, if they really are His. Our God, the Great Spirit, seems also to have forsaken us. Your God makes your people wax stronger every day. Soon they will fill all the land. Our people are ebbing away like a rapidly receding tide that will never return. The white man's God cannot love our people or He would protect them. They seem to be orphans who can look nowhere for help. How then can we be brothers? How can your God become our God and renew our prosperity and awaken in us dreams of returning greatness? If we have a common Heavenly Father He must be partial, for He came to His paleface children. We never saw Him. He gave you laws but had no word for His red children whose teeming multitudes once filled this vast continent as stars fill the firmament. No; we are two distinct races with separate origins and separate destinies. There is little in common between us.

To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret. Your religion was written upon tablets of stone by the iron finger of your God so that you could not forget. The Red Man could never comprehend or remember it. Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors -- the dreams of our old men, given them in solemn hours of the night by the Great Spirit; and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people.

Your dead cease to love you and the land of their nativity as soon as they pass the portals of the tomb and wander away beyond the stars. They are soon forgotten and never return. Our dead never forget this beautiful world that gave them being. They still love its verdant valleys, its murmuring rivers, its magnificent mountains, sequestered vales and verdant lined lakes and bays, and ever yearn in tender fond affection over the lonely hearted living, and often return from the happy hunting ground to visit, guide, console, and comfort them.

Day and night cannot dwell together. The Red Man has ever fled the approach of the White Man, as the morning mist flees before the morning sun. However, your proposition seems fair and I think that my people will accept it and will retire to the reservation you offer them. Then we will dwell apart in peace, for the words of the Great White Chief seem to be the words of nature speaking to my people out of dense darkness.

It matters little where we pass the remnant of our days. They will not be many. The Indian's night promises to be dark. Not a single star of hope hovers above his horizon. Sad-voiced winds moan in the distance. Grim fate seems to be on the Red Man's trail, and wherever he will hear the approaching footsteps of his fell destroyer and prepare stolidly to meet his doom, as does the wounded doe that hears the approaching footsteps of the hunter.

A few more moons, a few more winters, and not one of the descendants of the mighty hosts that once moved over this broad land or lived in happy homes, protected by the Great Spirit, will remain to mourn over the graves of a people once more powerful and hopeful than yours. But why should I mourn at the untimely fate of my people? Tribe follows tribe, and nation follows nation, like the waves of the sea. It is the order of nature, and regret is useless. Your time of decay may be distant, but it will surely come, for even the White Man whose God walked and talked with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We will see.

We will ponder your proposition and when we decide we will let you know. But should we accept it, I here and now make this condition that we will not be denied the privilege without molestation of visiting at any time the tombs of our ancestors, friends, and children. Every part of this soil is sacred in the estimation of my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove, has been hallowed by some sad or happy event in days long vanished. Even the rocks, which seem to be dumb and dead as the swelter in the sun along the silent shore, thrill with memories of stirring events connected with the lives of my people, and the very dust upon which you now stand responds more lovingly to their footsteps than yours, because it is rich with the blood of our ancestors, and our bare feet are conscious of the sympathetic touch. Our departed braves, fond mothers, glad, happy hearted maidens, and even the little children who lived here and rejoiced here for a brief season, will love these somber solitudes and at eventide they greet shadowy returning spirits. And when the last Red Man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe shall have become a myth among the White Men, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, the shop, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages are silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled them and still love this beautiful land. The White Man will never be alone.

Let him be just and deal kindly with my people, for the dead are not powerless. Dead, did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds.

ADG

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Those ^^^ are Spaniards -- who's laughing now?

Took brass balls in 1776, Hooyah!

Haha, Saw that armor too!

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

A wise man...









ADG

there is something similar from a chief in BC. Read it as a kid, been looking for past 10 years.

basically says the same thing, but with a hope that 'we come to our senses'

[Mutt]

beautifully written from the heart Chief Seattle but jesus - what a pity party. surprise surprise - your children's children's children's children are still here, they're in the casino industry, things could be worse.

Indians were violent, they warred and committed atrocities on each other's tribes the same way the evil white man does.

and their religion is just as nonsensical as ours.

they did get a raw deal as every aboriginal people on the planet have when the white man showed up but i've never heard anybody propose how it could have been much different.

bleeding hearts should pick up and move back to Europe - that is if they really felt the pain they want you to believe they feel.

[Konda]

[Redrob]

Nice sentiments. We should conserve our resources.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by theking

...I salute the forefathers and those that lay down their lives for this...my country.

How does one salute the forefathers of this country while ignoring the fact that our govt currently ignores the very bill of rights and constitution they fought and died to create?

[crockett]

Double post

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by crockett

How does one salute the forefathers of this country while ignoring the fact that our govt currently ignores the very bill of rights and constitution they fought and died to create?

i think with a middle finger

in this case, an unintentional proverbial one..

[theking]

Originally Posted by crockett

How does one salute the forefathers of this country while ignoring the fact that our govt currently ignores the very bill of rights and constitution they fought and died to create?

What is fact can be subjective and in your case it is. The Federal Supreme Court is the ultimate determiner if the Bill of Rights is being ignored or not. Not you and not I.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

What is fact can be subjective and in your case it is. The Federal Supreme Court is the ultimate determiner if the Bill of Rights is being ignored or not. Not you and not I.

is that the same crusader-for-freedomz court that rolled back voter rights 100 years?

same crusader-for-freedomz that decided the right to assembly didn't apply to 'the ultimate barrier'?

it is right?

[theking]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

is that the same crusader-for-freedomz court that rolled back voter rights 100 years?

same crusader-for-freedomz that decided the right to assembly didn't apply to 'the ultimate barrier'?

it is right?

No it is not...the Supreme Court does not engage in crusades...and the nine Justices have not and do not remain the same...and because they do not remain the same...or because of changing times...sometimes the laws change. It is what it is...our system.

Right and wrong are subjective terms...now shoo...troll.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

No it is not...the Supreme Court does not engage in crusades...and the nine Justices have not and do not remain the same...and because they do not remain the same...or because of changing times...sometimes the laws change. It is what it is...our system.

Right and wrong are subjective terms...now shoo...troll.

what are you even talking about.

'no it is not'

are you implying you think my points didn't happen last week? they did.

[theking]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

what are you even talking about.

'no it is not'

are you implying you think my points didn't happen last week? they did.

I am not implying anything. I will state it outright. You are a troll that is not very bright but likes to pretend that you are...now shoo...troll.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

I am not implying anything. I will state it outright. You are a troll that is not very bright but likes to pretend that you are...now shoo...troll.

while i respect your opinion, you really need to answer the question.

are you denying that your supreme court rolled by voter rights and banned protests on their grounds?

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Mutt

what a pity party. surprise surprise - your children's children's children's children are still here, they're in the casino industry, things could be worse.

Indians were violent, they warred and committed atrocities on each other's tribes the same way the evil white man does.

and their religion is just as nonsensical as ours.

Well hell, when you put it like that it justifies everything. We should round up some men and kill what's left of those violent savages.

[theking]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

while i respect your opinion, you really need to answer the question.

are you denying that your supreme court rolled by voter rights and banned protests on their grounds?

I have answered and do not feel the need to elaborate...thank you very much...you are dismissed.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by theking

What is fact can be subjective and in your case it is. The Federal Supreme Court is the ultimate determiner if the Bill of Rights is being ignored or not. Not you and not I.

When the people in charge have even lied to congress with no repercussions, what makes you think it will ever see the supreme court?

In fact the supreme court has already turned down a similar case because the info was classified and the plaintiff couldn't prove they themselves were spied on.

Meaning we first have to have a case that can prove the NSA was spying on the victim, before the supreme court will hear the case.

That in its self makes next to impossible conditions outside of having yet another whistleblower come forward with specific info on someone whom is willing to take it to trial.

Given the fact you call the whistleblowers traitors means justice is legally impossible under your terms..

Yet you claim to support the ideals of the forefathers whom established this country.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

I have answered and do not feel the need to elaborate...thank you very much...you are dismissed.

you have done no such thing.

you stated that the supreme court decides whether the bill of rights is violated or not.

i am saying the supreme court is violating the bill of rights THEMSELVES

just admit what is all over the news

it's easy.

Originally Posted by crockett

In fact the supreme court has already turned down a similar case because the info was classified and the plaintiff couldn't prove they themselves were spied on.

Meaning we first have to have a case that can prove the NSA was spying on the victim, before the supreme court will hear the case.

that.. is so fucked up.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by crockett

How does one salute the forefathers of this country while ignoring the fact that our govt currently ignores the very bill of rights and constitution they fought and died to create?

Both were written in pencil so they can be changed at any time to better suit the current government.

Sad..

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by crockett

When the people in charge have even lied to congress with no repercussions, what makes you think it will ever see the supreme court?

In fact the supreme court has already turned down a similar case because the info was classified and the plaintiff couldn't prove they themselves were spied on.

Meaning we first have to have a case that can prove the NSA was spying on the victim, before the supreme court will hear the case.

That in its self makes next to impossible conditions outside of having yet another whistleblower come forward with specific info on someone whom is willing to take it to trial.

Given the fact you call the whistleblowers traitors means justice is legal impossible under your terms..

Yet you claim to support the ideals of the forefathers whom established this country.

Be careful, you're walking on the fighting side of him by running down his country, hoss.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

Be careful, you're walking on the fighting side of him by running down his country, hoss.

Its my country too and the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written to protect the people of this country not to protect secretive courts and govt.

[theking]

Originally Posted by crockett

When the people in charge have even lied to congress with no repercussions, what makes you think it will ever see the supreme court?

In fact the supreme court has already turned down a similar case because the info was classified and the plaintiff couldn't prove they themselves were spied on.

Meaning we first have to have a case that can prove the NSA was spying on the victim, before the supreme court will hear the case.

That in its self makes next to impossible conditions outside of having yet another whistleblower come forward with specific info on someone whom is willing to take it to trial.

Given the fact you call the whistleblowers traitors means justice is legally impossible under your terms..

Yet you claim to support the ideals of the forefathers whom established this country.

All "laws" or "injustices"...that are controversial...eventually find there way to the Supreme Court. Justice can sometimes be extremely slow...and can even take decades. In the meantime the law is the law and it is our system...it is what it is.

Do I approve of everything that our Congress or Executive or the Judicial does...far from it...sometimes it makes me angry...and I express my thinking to my Representative and or Senator...frequently. I suspect far more than they or their staff would like. That is my contribution to change something that I do not like. I made the decision to not become an activist a long time ago. I leave that to others and either support them or not.

We the people have the ability to change those people that are in power every two...four and six years...and they in turn have the power to replace the Justices of the Supreme Court as they retire or die. This is our system.

[Si]

Originally Posted by Konda

[crockett]

In case anyone wanted to know what case I was talking about.. Here yea go..

http://www.aclu.org/national-securit...iretapping-law


Pretty sure this isn't what the forefathers of this country had in mind...

The lovely supreme court won't even hear the case, so that must make it all perfectly legal, right theking?

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by theking

...I salute the forefathers and those that lay down their lives for this...my country.

oh shut up LOL..."my country" LOL...bunch of immigrant traitors used the balls and resources of their REAL countries (england,spain, portugal) to rape and steal and loot land from the natives, and then they turned TRAITOR on their REAL countries and STOLE the indians land with THEIR REAL COUNTRIES RESOURCES LOL LOL LOL

they did not lay down their lives for anything else than greed ...you make it sound like they built america stone by stone from the ocean fucking euro trash rejects looking for easy $$$ LOL

do you know who had concentration camps before hitler? YOUR FOREFATHERS! to round up the red man and exterminate...

4th of july is in fact "traitor day" and if any group of americans, went and did what your forefathers did, you would call them traitors too! you double standard brainwashed phoney...

oh and its not YOUR country...its your corporate governments country...you just get to pay tax and go die for their politics...if you are seriously implying that they give 2 shits about you then LOL...you are INSANE if you think you are anything else than tax cattle to your country LOL...

you brainwashed north korean LOL

happy "pretend its not theft and treason" day

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

bunch of immigrant traitors used the balls and resources of their REAL countries (england,spain, portugal) to rape and steal and loot land from the natives, and then they turned TRAITOR on their REAL countries and STOLE the indians land with THEIR REAL COUNTRIES RESOURCES LOL LOL LOL

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by crockett

Its my country too and the Constitution and Bill of Rights were written to protect the people of this country not to protect secretive courts and govt.

I know, I just get a kick out of his sig.

[theking]

Originally Posted by crockett

In case anyone wanted to know what case I was talking about.. Here yea go..

http://www.aclu.org/national-securit...iretapping-law


Pretty sure this isn't what the forefathers of this country had in mind...

The lovely supreme court won't even hear the case, so that must make it all perfectly legal, right theking?

Yes it does.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

Yes it does.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by theking

Yes it does.

No it doesn't. Just because a thief wasn't caught in the act, doesn't mean stealing is lawful.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by CT-Content

Perhaps we can revise our forefathers Constitution and rid this country of the Islamic mosques. Not with-standing, I drive five miles from my house and I feel like I'm in fucking Calcutta! - What's happened to this country ?

morons like you can vote too?

[theking]

Originally Posted by crockett

No it doesn't. Just because a thief wasn't caught in the act, doesn't mean stealing is lawful.

It is lawful whenever it is deemed by the Courts to be lawful...end of story. It was a 5-4 decision that the ACLU did not have standing. I have not read the minority decisions and I do not intend to...but none the less the challenge was barely defeated...but that is immaterial...it was defeated and it frequently happens. That is our system...end of story.

Eventually some one that makes a challenge will have standing and maybe even the ACLU...if they come back at it with a slightly different legal point. This sort of thing is not infrequent. As I stated the wheels of justice can...and often does...work slowly.

[crockett]

The fact if the wiretap was not decided not on. The court instead made the bar so high that its next to impossible for anyone to challenge of f the FICA courts and NSA wiretaps are legal.

That does not mean the secrecy courts or warrantless wiretaps are legal. Just that the court is making t next to impossible for anyone to bring a case against it.

Sad that someone that claims to be a supporter of this countries constitution is more than willing to toss away the bill of rights.

[seeandsee]

God knows how much more births of nations will happen just in next 1000 years

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by DWB

Well hell, when you put it like that it justifies everything. We should round up some men and kill what's left of those violent savages.

He is such a Nazi.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by crockett

The fact if the wiretap was not decided not on. The court instead made the bar so high that its next to impossible for anyone to challenge of f the FICA courts and NSA wiretaps are legal.

That does not mean the secrecy courts or warrantless wiretaps are legal. Just that the court is making t next to impossible for anyone to bring a case against it.

Sad that someone that claims to be a supporter of this countries constitution is more than willing to toss away the bill of rights.

I was listening to NPR a few days ago. Host and several phone in guests. It was funny and tragic when the conversation led them to understand the Supreme Court has become a political tool just like any other. Anyone know when they last administered justice per the Constitution or has it always been an arm of the dominant political party represented there?

[theking]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I was listening to NPR a few days ago. Host and several phone in guests. It was funny and tragic when the conversation led them to understand the Supreme Court has become a political tool just like any other. Anyone know when they last administered justice per the Constitution or has it always been an arm of the dominant political party represented there?

In my opinion it is not much more...if any more...of a political arm than it ever has been...at least in my life time.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I was listening to NPR a few days ago. Host and several phone in guests. It was funny and tragic when the conversation led them to understand the Supreme Court has become a political tool just like any other. Anyone know when they last administered justice per the Constitution or has it always been an arm of the dominant political party represented there?

I don't think this spying ordeal really has anything to do with political parties. This was all started under Bush and Obama has added to it. Both parties are dirty with this.

The very fact that the right has hounded Obama over everything possible then go quiet as a mouse on this just shows this rabbit hole goes very deep.

IMO they are hiding much more than we have seen so far. I've said that from the start.

[theking]

Originally Posted by crockett

The fact if the wiretap was not decided not on. The court instead made the bar so high that its next to impossible for anyone to challenge of f the FICA courts and NSA wiretaps are legal.

That does not mean the secrecy courts or warrantless wiretaps are legal. Just that the court is making t next to impossible for anyone to bring a case against it.

Sad that someone that claims to be a supporter of this countries constitution is more than willing to toss away the bill of rights.

For one...I am not of the opinion that the Constitution was written in stone...and for another it is only your opinion...that the Bill of Rights is being tossed away...let alone that "I" am willing to toss it away...now isn't that right...sport?