OBAMA, Seriously?? WTF SMH - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Yanks_Todd · 07-19-2013, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder what people here on GFY would do under the same circumstances.

You've already made the "mistake" of having the audacity to get out of your own car and follow a guy on a public street that you are part of the neighborhood watch.

Now...you start getting the shit beat out of you and you have a gun.

I wonder how many of you would actually just lie there and let Trayvon Martin beat your ass until his arms got tired?

I'm pretty sure that if somebody starts beating the fuck out of me and I have a gun...I'm putting a hole in them. That's what the gun is for. It's the "great equalizer".

I can't help but think some of y'all are being disingenuous when you suggest that GZ should have just allowed TM to beat the fuck out of him. Only a fool would do that.

Better question: What it all the circumstances were exactly the same...except George was a WOMAN.

If it had been Geogette Zimmerman...nobody would be calling Trayvon a "child". He would be known as a "man" and there would be no question that "Georgette" was defending herself when she shot him dead.

The problem with this point is that the mistake he made is the one that lead specifically to the end result he should be responsible for. I would have listened to the police and disengaged at that point.

It's like a DUI manslaughter. I have driven drunk before. I know as I make the decision to drive in that state that if I hit and kill someone I am responsible. I am responsible even if the accident is not my fault.

I don't' believe GZ was a racist who followed Trayvon because he was black. However the moment he decided to follow this dude against the police's direct order not to he stepped in that car.

This kid would have walked to his father's house alive had it not been for Gz's original decision to be a vigilante in the wrong.

baddog · 07-19-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

How do you sucker punch someone stalking you? Seriously how does that work.

Ah jeez, apparently you did not follow the actual testimony either.

TheSquealer · 07-19-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

The problem with this point is that the mistake he made is the one that lead specifically to the end result he should be responsible for. I would have listened to the police and disengaged at that point.

He didn't do anything illegal in following Martin. End of story. That is emotion talking. You are making arguments based on opinion that have no real basis in law.

RandyRandy · 07-19-2013, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

So your argument in the first point is that what the dispatcher said is not what she actually meant? Ah, I see, a code. Well you got me there. I can't win that one dude. I guess my mistake is interpreting the words as per their definitions.

Glad you agree that T.Martin had that right. I agree that GZ did as well. And yes you can go up to someone and ask them what they are doing here. However if you were in a place you were allowed to be how would you respond? You may not hit them, fine, but don't tell me you wouldn't be put off by it and cop an attitude.

So now you have a keyed up dude with a gun. He wanted to be cop. (fact) and he was following someone who wasn't' doing anything wrong and was told to disengage by the authorities. The fact that he didn't disengage means that GZ thinks of him self pretty highly.

Trayvon does seem like a bit of a thug, however 17 year old boys tend to be a bit over aggressive and troublesome.

Now you have keyed up GZ thinking he is approaching a criminal and a pumped up Trayvon who has no idea who this dude is.

The problem is nobody knows how the rest really went down. Do you really think it was as neat as the guy who lived and was on trial said? I don't but what he said isn't acceptable. So the slight slide of his version to the truth means to me that GZ had NO RIGHT to do what he did.

Your homeless comment is a terrible analogy. The desire and state of the homeless person is pretty obvious.

Sorry for the terrible analogy, it made sense to me. As to the rest of your post, I'm sure it makes sense to you. So I'll save my time and bandwidth by wishing you a great weekend and respect your right to your interpretations and opinions, even though we are on opposite sides. I'm sure somewhere we agree on something and look forward to the day when we discover what that is.

Have a nice weekend everyone - the bbq grill has just come to temperature!

Fetish Gimp · 07-19-2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

I don't' believe GZ was a racist who followed Trayvon because he was black. However the moment he decided to follow this dude against the police's direct order not to he stepped in that car.

The 911 dispatchers are not police officers, they're civilians. They have no legal authority. Google it for yourself. Zimmerman following Martin wasn't nice, but it wasn't illegal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

This kid would have walked to his father's house alive had it not been for Gz's original decision to be a vigilante in the wrong.

I would argue that Martin would be alive if he hadn't decided to beat up Zimmerman, breaking the law by assaulting a stranger and giving Zimmerman no choice but to defend himself. This is the conclusion that the jury reached, thus the "not guilty" verdict.

And now I bet you're going to argue that Zimmerman should have "taken his beating like a man".

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

The problem with this point is that the mistake he made is the one that lead specifically to the end result he should be responsible for.

You might as well say that getting out of bed that morning started the chain of events.

You know what I'm saying.

And you could also argue that the MISTAKE Trayvon Martin made by deciding to kick the "crackers" ass was the one that led to him being shot.

And as I said...for arguments sake...let's say that YOU had the sheer audacity to get out of your car and follow behind someone else in YOUR neighborhood to supposedly start the chain of events.

Now...for whatever reason (and it don't take much for a young testosterone-driven man), this guy starts beating the hell out of you.

Would YOU just lay there and get beaten? Or would you pull out your gun and blow them away?

That was my question. Because I've seen Rochard and several others post over and over how GZ was "just" getting beat up in a fistfight.

And I'm pretty sure, that if I were to jump on Rochard....get the better of him, and start beating his face in, that in the heat of the moment he would 100% shoot me if he had a gun.

That's what the gun is for.

I'm guessing that a lot of people in 2013 wouldn't have lasted very long in this country in the "old days".

I was just watching "Pawn Stars" and a guy had a signed check from Aaron Burr.

It reminded me that in society we used to demand respect and courtesy from people. And if you didn't get it...you demanded "satisfaction": A duel.

So the Vice President of The United States Aaron Burr had a LEGAL duel with pistols with the Secretary Of The Treasury Alexander Hamilton (the guy on the $20 bill) and KILLED him.

My how times have changed in regards to the gun laws, self defense, and even just saying "Hey, I don't like you...let's duel to the death"
Can't you imagine the death toll on GFY if dueling were still legal?

baddog · 07-19-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

So your argument in the first point is that what the dispatcher said is not what she actually meant? Ah, I see, a code. Well you got me there. I can't win that one dude. I guess my mistake is interpreting the words as per their definitions.

What is it you think she said, exactly?

_Richard_ · 07-19-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Can't you imagine the death toll on GFY if dueling were still legal?

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 07-19-2013, 03:29 PM

What President Obama said today (full transcript):

Quote:

I wanted to come out here, first of all, to tell you that Jay is prepared for all your questions and is very much looking forward to the session. The second thing is I want to let you know that over the next couple of weeks, there?s going to obviously be a whole range of issues -- immigration, economics, et cetera -- we'll try to arrange a fuller press conference to address your questions.

The reason I actually wanted to come out today is not to take questions, but to speak to an issue that obviously has gotten a lot of attention over the course of the last week -- the issue of the Trayvon Martin ruling. I gave a preliminary statement right after the ruling on Sunday. But watching the debate over the course of the last week, I thought it might be useful for me to expand on my thoughts a little bit.

First of all, I want to make sure that, once again, I send my thoughts and prayers, as well as Michelle?s, to the family of Trayvon Martin, and to remark on the incredible grace and dignity with which they?ve dealt with the entire situation. I can only imagine what they?re going through, and it?s remarkable how they?ve handled it.

The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there?s going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case -- I'll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues. The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury has spoken, that's how our system works. But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there?s a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it?s important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn?t go away.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me -- at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it?s inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear. The African American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws -- everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they?re disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It?s not to make excuses for that fact -- although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so the fact that sometimes that?s unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent -- using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there?s no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

Continued...

ADG

Vendzilla · 07-19-2013, 03:30 PM

I don't get the whole thing, Travon was bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground and Zimmerman shot him to protect himself. It was a gated community, Zimmerman was a watch for that community, are people outraged because a man defended himself against a black man? Nothing during the trial indicated race or racism.
And please don't call him a kid, I was 17 when I joined the NAVY

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 07-19-2013, 03:30 PM

Obama transcript continued...

Quote:

Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this? How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction? I think it?s understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent. If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family. But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do.

I know that Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think it?s important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government, the criminal code. And law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels.

That doesn?t mean, though, that as a nation we can?t do some things that I think would be productive. So let me just give a couple of specifics that I?m still bouncing around with my staff, so we?re not rolling out some five-point plan, but some areas where I think all of us could potentially focus.

Number one, precisely because law enforcement is often determined at the state and local level, I think it would be productive for the Justice Department, governors, mayors to work with law enforcement about training at the state and local levels in order to reduce the kind of mistrust in the system that sometimes currently exists.

When I was in Illinois, I passed racial profiling legislation, and it actually did just two simple things. One, it collected data on traffic stops and the race of the person who was stopped. But the other thing was it resourced us training police departments across the state on how to think about potential racial bias and ways to further professionalize what they were doing.

And initially, the police departments across the state were resistant, but actually they came to recognize that if it was done in a fair, straightforward way that it would allow them to do their jobs better and communities would have more confidence in them and, in turn, be more helpful in applying the law. And obviously, law enforcement has got a very tough job.

So that?s one area where I think there are a lot of resources and best practices that could be brought to bear if state and local governments are receptive. And I think a lot of them would be. And let's figure out are there ways for us to push out that kind of training.

Along the same lines, I think it would be useful for us to examine some state and local laws to see if it -- if they are designed in such a way that they may encourage the kinds of altercations and confrontations and tragedies that we saw in the Florida case, rather than diffuse potential altercations.

I know that there's been commentary about the fact that the "stand your ground" laws in Florida were not used as a defense in the case. On the other hand, if we're sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if there's a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we'd like to see?

And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these "stand your ground" laws, I'd just ask people to consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.

Number three -- and this is a long-term project -- we need to spend some time in thinking about how do we bolster and reinforce our African American boys. And this is something that Michelle and I talk a lot about. There are a lot of kids out there who need help who are getting a lot of negative reinforcement. And is there more that we can do to give them the sense that their country cares about them and values them and is willing to invest in them?

I'm not naïve about the prospects of some grand, new federal program. I'm not sure that that?s what we're talking about here. But I do recognize that as President, I've got some convening power, and there are a lot of good programs that are being done across the country on this front. And for us to be able to gather together business leaders and local elected officials and clergy and celebrities and athletes, and figure out how are we doing a better job helping young African American men feel that they're a full part of this society and that they've got pathways and avenues to succeed -- I think that would be a pretty good outcome from what was obviously a tragic situation. And we're going to spend some time working on that and thinking about that.

And then, finally, I think it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul-searching. There has been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. I haven't seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. They end up being stilted and politicized, and folks are locked into the positions they already have. On the other hand, in families and churches and workplaces, there's the possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about, am I wringing as much bias out of myself as I can? Am I judging people as much as I can, based on not the color of their skin, but the content of their character? That would, I think, be an appropriate exercise in the wake of this tragedy.

And let me just leave you with a final thought that, as difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don?t want us to lose sight that things are getting better. Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. It doesn?t mean we?re in a post-racial society. It doesn?t mean that racism is eliminated. But when I talk to Malia and Sasha, and I listen to their friends and I seem them interact, they?re better than we are -- they?re better than we were -- on these issues. And that?s true in every community that I?ve visited all across the country.

And so we have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues. And those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature, as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions. But we should also have confidence that kids these days, I think, have more sense than we did back then, and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did; and that along this long, difficult journey, we?re becoming a more perfect union -- not a perfect union, but a more perfect union.

Thank you, guys.

Not sure what has people so upset.

ADG

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 03:30 PM

Damn ADG...you really are caught up in Obama-mania! lol

I'm sorry I ever questioned the motives and integrity of this living saint on Earth. heh-heh

I will now join you in jerking off to that lovely pic of the Prez

baddog · 07-19-2013, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

What President Obama said today (full transcript):

Continued...

ADG

Wait, why is he expressing condolences to the Martin family? There are lots of perps out there getting killed; how about apologies to the Zimmerman family for putting them through this?

Yanks_Todd · 07-19-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

He didn't do anything illegal in following Martin. End of story. That is emotion talking. You are making arguments based on opinion that have no real basis in law.

I agree that my opinion is that this law is wrong. And full circle Obama should be talking about this. That was my original point.

Yanks_Todd · 07-19-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So the Vice President of The United States Aaron Burr had a LEGAL duel with pistols with the Secretary Of The Treasury Alexander Hamilton (the guy on the $20 bill) and KILLED him.

How ironic to use an example of a legal duel when discussing this situation. It was a fair fight hand to hand until the ONE guy with the gun dueled. Too fucking funny man.And with that I am out for the day.

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

How ironic to use an example of a legal duel when discussing this situation. It was a fair fight hand to hand until the ONE guy with the gun dueled. Too fucking funny man.And with that I am out for the day.

I wasn't using that as a comparison to a stonger guy (trayvon) beating a weaker guy (zimmerman).

I was just pointing out how our society used to be when guns were more prominent. Less crime, less bullying, etc.

Just tossed it out there out of context because I had thought about it from the Pawn Stars episode with Aaron Burr's signed check.
Couldn't imagine how our govt. would react to a duel in 2013.

Probably wouldn't say anything if the "winning" politician were a Democrat and both guys were white.

baddog · 07-19-2013, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

So your argument in the first point is that what the dispatcher said is not what she actually meant? Ah, I see, a code. Well you got me there. I can't win that one dude. I guess my mistake is interpreting the words as per their definitions.

I think my question got lost with ADG's posts . . . . what do you think she said exactly?

vdbucks · 07-19-2013, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

The irrational seething anger directed towards Obama is kind of comical to watch. Racists foam at the mouth when the issue of race is discussed, and of course the right wing is playing this up for all that it's worth, injecting racist attitudes and propaganda into the discussion, desperately trying to shore up their diminishing white base by dividing people.

The only actual racists in this thread -- and other threads on this dumb ass topic -- are those who constantly call everyone else racist and have been trying, non stop, to make this entire ordeal between GZ and TM an issue of racism.

Fetish Gimp · 07-19-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

And now I bet you're going to argue that Zimmerman should have "taken his beating like a man".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

It was a fair fight hand to hand until the ONE guy with the gun dueled.

Close enough

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyRandy

As a Crime Watch Captain, Zimmerman's attempt to ask Martin what he was doing there (perfectly legal) was answered by a sucker-punch to the nose (misdemeanor assault at the very least). Seriously, that's how it works.

And as a teenager, it's his right to defend himself from a thirty year old man with a gun who is stalking him for no reason. Duh.

Grapesoda · 07-19-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Lol! Get used to it. Zimmerman got off scott free for killing an un-armed black teen while a black woman was sentenced for 20 years for shooting her gun into the air to scare off her abusive husband.

The Stand Your Ground Law is fucking BULLSHIT and was pushed through Florida and other states by the GUN SALES PEOPLE of the NRA which so many gone lovers worship.

President Obama is right to get involved. The problem affects the whole country. The stand your ground law attempts to fix a problem that never even existed in the first place. All it does is make it easier for gun lovers to carry and shoot guns without worrying about the consequences.

well since Montreal is a bed of fucking roses with no crime I guess it's okay for you bust our balls

Grapesoda · 07-19-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And as a teenager, it's his right to defend himself from a thirty year old man with a gun who is stalking him for no reason. Duh.

let's see: a neighborhood is being robed by black teens, neighborhood watch is set up, black teen wanders around a night in the neighborhood... damn your right as fucking rain!!! no reason at all ....

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

He didn't do anything illegal in following Martin. End of story. That is emotion talking. You are making arguments based on opinion that have no real basis in law.

Martin was defending himself from an thirty year old who not only had a long history of legal problems AND was armed who had stalked him for nearly twenty minutes.

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And as a teenager, it's his right to defend himself from a thirty year old man with a gun who is stalking him for no reason. Duh.

LOL! You never quit trolling man!

Saying Zimmerman is "30" (he's 28) is like saying that Trayvon was "20" since you're rounding up to the nearest ten.

I'm thinking that you see this in your mind's eye as a giant old Mexican man in full pursuit running as fast as he can with a big gun drawn and chasing down a tiny black toddler still wearing diapers and crying.

Seriously man...it's insulting to people's intelligence. Why not just stick with reality? Stop saying "stalked" when you know that's an incorrect use of the word, and stop trying to paint Trayvon as a little kid and Zimmerman as older than he really is.

This is pathetic.

Dvae · 07-19-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Martin was defending himself from an thirty year old who not only had a long history of legal problems AND was armed who had stalked him for nearly twenty minutes.

It was bad enough you posting stupid shit on this topic as Rochard, you now apparently are also posting as AsianDivaGirlsWebDude.
One of you is enough!

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

The 911 dispatchers are not police officers, they're civilians.

Yes, and when a car is on fire and they tell you to move away YOU FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM OR YOU TAKE YOUR OWN LIFE IN YOUR HANDS. And when they tell you how to perform CPR on someone who is near death YOU FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM and when they tell you "don't go outside" YOU FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM....

Obviously, a 911 dispatcher knows a lot better than some fucking yahoo jackass wanna be police office who thinks he's fucking god and is going act like a big man with his firearm and TWO FUCKING FLASHLIGHTS and chase down an innocent 17 year old kid.

And here's the kicker... Obviously in hindsight the 911 operator was fucking right. If Zimmmerman did what he was told, this kid would still be alive, and Zimmerman's life wouldn't be destroyed. This is just the beginning - there will be a federal investigation and then a civil suit...

Zimmerman is done. He'll never be able to live a normal life again... Too bad he didn't listen to the 911 operator. He fucked himself hard.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 07-19-2013, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Damn ADG...you really are caught up in Obama-mania! lol

I'm sorry I ever questioned the motives and integrity of this living saint on Earth. heh-heh

I will now join you in jerking off to that lovely pic of the Prez

You'll have to jerk off to Obama's picture yourself, because I don't swing that way (I mean I'm not gay, let's not make this about race).

There are several issues which I disagree with President Obama on (Guantanamo, Drones, etc), however I think overall he is doing an admirable job considering the gridlock that exists in Washington.

While I may not be happy with everything Obama does, the pragmatist in me says that he is still doing better than Romney and the Republicans would have done.

ADG

Fetish Gimp · 07-19-2013, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And as a teenager, it's his right to defend himself from a thirty year old man with a gun who is stalking him for no reason. Duh.

Again, you're letting emotion cloud reason.

There's a difference between a perceived threat and a real one. It is not legal to pre-emptively assault someone simply because they give you the hibby jibbies, specially if you're not cornered without any other avenue of escape or recourse.

I understand that if you've been followed by security when you walk into stores everyday of your life you'd consider that point arguable, but it isn't. This is why when invoking self-defence you must prove that you had no other choice but to use force.

Martin had plenty of choices. He wasn't cornered into a blind alley or locked in a bathroom in his house. He had in fact lost Zimmerman.

Then he chose to beat Zimmerman up, giving Zimmerman no choice but to defend himself.

See how that works?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

If Zimmmerman did what he was told, this kid would still be alive, and Zimmerman's life wouldn't be destroyed.

If Martin hadn't assaulted Zimmerman he wouldn't have gotten shot. That's the conclusion the jury, who had more access to facts than we do, arrived at.

Helix · 07-19-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

If Martin hadn't assaulted Zimmerman he wouldn't have gotten shot. That's the conclusion the jury, who had more access to facts than we do, arrived at.

*Bingo !

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

LOL! You never quit trolling man!

Not trolling at all. I just really believe in what I am saying.

I don't see this as a "black kid". I see this as my daughter. For reasons I don't understand, teenagers like to wear hoodies. We went out for ice cream the other day, right before the trial started, in 95 degree weather, and there was teenagers there wearing sweat shirts with hoodies.

I close my eyes and I see my teenage daughter walking to her friend's 8pm at night, cutting between houses; I see my teenager running in fear from a man that's following her and then I see my child being shot and killed... All because she want to go to her friend's house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Saying Zimmerman is "30" (he's 28) is like saying that Trayvon was "20" since you're rounding up to the nearest ten.

Zimmerman was twenty-nine or is twenty-nine. Martin was 17 - a teenager, a minor. The difference between the two of them is staggering. Zimmerman was a full grown adult about to graduate from college with a degree in criminal law, while Martin was a dumb teen. Zimmerman should have known better.

Zimmerman not only should have known better, he should have handled himself better. In the evidence in Zimmerman's statement, Martin walked around Zimmerman's truck. Why didn't Zimmerman roll down his window and say "I am with the neighborhood watch" or "Can I help you?". He didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm thinking that you see this in your mind's eye as a giant old Mexican man in full pursuit running as fast as he can with a big gun drawn and chasing down a tiny black toddler still wearing diapers and crying.

I don't see a Mexican or a black teen. I see my white daughter being shot by a local white homeowner who's house was robbed two months ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Seriously man...it's insulting to people's intelligence. Why not just stick with reality? Stop saying "stalked" when you know that's an incorrect use of the word, and stop trying to paint Trayvon as a little kid and Zimmerman as older than he really is.

I think stalking is the correct word. Zimmerman followed Martin for seventeen minutes (that we know of), to the point where Zimmerman got out of the car. Martin RAN from Zimmerman, and yet Zimmerman was somehow close enough to Martin for a confrontation to take place.

Stalking: Stalking is unwanted or obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person or monitoring them.

Zimmerman stalked this kid for seventeen minutes, following him from his truck and then on foot. That's not following, that's stalking.

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

You'll have to jerk off to Obama's picture yourself

While I may not be happy with everything Obama does, the pragmatist in me says that he is still doing better than Romney and the Republicans would have done.

ADG

Okay, I jerked off alone.

As for "Romney and the Republicans"...so that is the measuring stick for Obama?

He did "better" than Romney?

So I guess that you shoot Asian girls naked better than some guy with a Kodak instamatic?

Comparing Obama to someone else isn't the way to measure the man. And justifying his bullshit based on you thinking it's "less bullshitt-y" Romney is...well...BULLSHIT.

I don't give a fuck what Romney or McCain...or even the Great Satan: Bush, would have done.

I only care what the current man in the office is doing. And it's a piss poor job and he has been as deceitful and secretive as any President I can remember since Nixon.

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Zimmerman was twenty-nine or is twenty-nine. Martin was 17 - a teenager, a minor. The difference between the two of them is staggering.

You really should use Google. GZ is not 29 and was not 29

And if you think the difference between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman was "staggering" you are correct.

Trayvon was athletic, strong, lean and had a lot of experience apparently from his text messages of kicking people's asses. Zimmerman was a soft guy who didn't know how to fight and was not close to TM in physical strength.

As for "stalking", you've already proven that you love to exaggerate. You already know the circumstances and yet you keep parroting the same thing over and over.
Newsflash: Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

Again, you're letting emotion cloud reason.

There's a difference between a perceived threat and a real one. It is not legal to pre-emptively assault someone simply because they give you the hibby jibbies, specially if you're not cornered without any other avenue of escape or recourse.

I understand that if you've been followed by security when you walk into stores everyday of your life you'd consider that point arguable, but it isn't. This is why when invoking self-defence you must prove that you had no other choice but to use force.

Martin had plenty of choices. He wasn't cornered into a blind alley or locked in a bathroom in his house. He had in fact lost Zimmerman.

Then he chose to beat Zimmerman up, giving Zimmerman no choice but to defend himself.

See how that works?

If Martin hadn't assaulted Zimmerman he wouldn't have gotten shot. That's the conclusion the jury, who had more access to facts than we do, arrived at.

Yes, Martin did have choices. But he was a teenager, he was being followed, and he decided to act defensely.

He didn't beat Zimmerman. He punched him. He had fat lip and two cuts on his head. This was not life threatening.

Zimmerman had lots of choices too. He didn't need to defend himself by shooting and killing Martin. He could have laid there and done nothing and witnesses would have come to his rescue - he would have been a local hero instead of this being a national case that destroyed his life.

Robbie · 07-19-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

He could have laid there and done nothing and witnesses would have come to his rescue

Richard, you have no fucking sense of reality. You need to get out in the real world a bit more.

2MuchMark · 07-19-2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath

lol. Says the Canadian who clearly doesn't know shit about US laws.

Please enlighten me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

Nothing you said had anything to do with this case....

http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/215759571.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath

Time to take the country back from Criminals!!!

I agree completely. Let's start with this guy

Phoenix · 07-19-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

The problem with this point is that the mistake he made is the one that lead specifically to the end result he should be responsible for. I would have listened to the police and disengaged at that point.

It's like a DUI manslaughter. I have driven drunk before. I know as I make the decision to drive in that state that if I hit and kill someone I am responsible. I am responsible even if the accident is not my fault.

I don't' believe GZ was a racist who followed Trayvon because he was black. However the moment he decided to follow this dude against the police's direct order not to he stepped in that car.

This kid would have walked to his father's house alive had it not been for Gz's original decision to be a vigilante in the wrong.

I think i'd like to go ahead and just sign up to your newsletter

Save myself time and just agree with your points on most matters....keep it coming man.

I 100% agree with that analogy. That kid no matter what his race would be alive if that man had not followed him around at night.

Fetish Gimp · 07-19-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yes, Martin did have choices. But he was a teenager, he was being followed, and he decided to act defensely.

You're again assuming that merely being followed by someone is akin to being assaulted. This is, in the eyes of the law, wrong. As I stated before, you can only use force to defend yourself if there's a REAL, PALPABLE threat. Imaginary scenarios do not count in the eyes of the law. Martin acted OFFENSIVELY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

He didn't beat Zimmerman. He punched him. He had fat lip and two cuts on his head. This was not life threatening.

I can easily argued that was simply because Zimmerman shot him before the beating could go on. It only takes one good blow to the head to kill somebody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Zimmerman had lots of choices too. He didn't need to defend himself by shooting and killing Martin. He could have laid there and done nothing

You really, truly believe that? That somebody is going to lay there while a taller, more muscular person lays on top of them throwing punches saying to themselves "well, I did act like an asshole by following this guy so I'm just going to laid here and do nothing and somebody hopefully will come to my rescue and I'll be the local hero because if I shoot him the media will blow this case out of proportion, distort facts and even after I'm found innocent by a court of law they'll still demand my head on a platter because of political agendas."

Seriously?

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

You're again assuming that merely being followed by someone is akin to being assaulted. This is, in the eyes of the law, wrong. As I stated before, you can only use force to defend yourself if there's a REAL, PALPABLE threat. Imaginary scenarios do not count in the eyes of the law. Martin acted OFFENSIVELY.

Yes, you are right. Running away from someone following you is clearly acting offensively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

I can easily argued that was simply because Zimmerman shot him before the beating could go on. It only takes one good blow to the head to kill somebody.

If Zimmerman did NOTHING at all, Zimmerman would have had a fat lip and Martin would still alive.

Hey, I'm fine with the way it is. Zimmerman destroyed his own life. He'll never be able to work again, and for the rest of his life he'll always be watching his back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

You really, truly believe that? That somebody is going to lay there while a taller, more muscular person lays on top of them throwing punches saying to themselves "well, I did act like an asshole by following this guy so I'm just going to laid here and do nothing and somebody hopefully will come to my rescue and I'll be the local hero because if I shoot him the media will blow this case out of proportion, distort facts and even after I'm found innocent by a court of law they'll still demand my head on a platter because of political agendas."

Or shoot and kill. It was his choice.

He could have been a hero, and Martin would have been arrested. Instead, now he's a national villain who will never be able to live a normal life again.

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Richard, you have no fucking sense of reality. You need to get out in the real world a bit more.

The reality is that a teenager ran away form danger, and Zimmerman chased him.

bronco67 · 07-19-2013, 06:15 PM

In about 20 years, all of the angry white people complaining about this speech will be dead...some of them are probably in this thread now. Hopefully we can start progressing once these fuckers are out of the way and in the ground --and out of our government making decisions that no one asks them to.

Rochard · 07-19-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

Again, you're letting emotion cloud reason.

There is no emotion in this what so ever for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

There's a difference between a perceived threat and a real one. It is not legal to pre-emptively assault someone simply because they give you the hibby jibbies, specially if you're not cornered without any other avenue of escape or recourse.

So an armed man following a teenager around in the dark isn't a threat?

The kid RAN AWAY from a man ARMED WITH A GUN. Zimmerman chased him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

I understand that if you've been followed by security when you walk into stores everyday of your life you'd consider that point arguable, but it isn't. This is why when invoking self-defence you must prove that you had no other choice but to use force.

Zimmerman, a grown man, failed to identify himself in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

Martin had plenty of choices. He wasn't cornered into a blind alley or locked in a bathroom in his house. He had in fact lost Zimmerman.

Martin was chased in the dark by a man with a gun. A man armed with a gun chased him and confronted him. What else could Martin do? Run some more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

Then he chose to beat Zimmerman up, giving Zimmerman no choice but to defend himself.

He didn't "beat Zimmerman up". Zimmerman got punched in the face.

Martin was acting in self defense - He fled, he ran, but was still confronted by a man who had been following him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetish Gimp

If Martin hadn't assaulted Zimmerman he wouldn't have gotten shot. That's the conclusion the jury, who had more access to facts than we do, arrived at.

The Jury didn't have access to more facts than we did. A lot was kept from the jury, while we saw it all.

Fetish Gimp · 07-19-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is no emotion in this what so ever for me.

Oh really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't see this as a "black kid". I see this as my daughter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So an armed man following a teenager around in the dark isn't a threat? The kid RAN AWAY from a man ARMED WITH A GUN. Zimmerman chased him.

Martin did not know that Zimmerman was armed. If he had known, do you really think he would have assaulted Zimmerman? Or are you going to assume that Zimmerman ran after Martin pointing his gun at him? Because none of the evidence points to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

He didn't "beat Zimmerman up". Zimmerman got punched in the face.

I already addressed the fact that it can be argued that the only reason Zimmerman wasn't beaten more badly was because he was armed and used his gun in self-defence.

And again, self-defence is about real threats, when you have no other alternatives and you're not committing a crime. But don't take my word for it, google it yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Martin was acting in self defense - He fled, he ran, but was still confronted by a man who had been following him.

Okay, answer me this.

If Zimmerman had been unarmed and Martin had beaten him to death, do you think that Martin could have been found innocent?

That a jury would have considered being followed a tangible, life or death threat, and that Martin had no other choice but to beat Zimmerman to death?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The Jury didn't have access to more facts than we did. A lot was kept from the jury, while we saw it all.

Oh now you're just being silly.

tonyparra · 07-19-2013, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanks_Todd

I don't see a problem with this. Race is an issue in the country he is a leader of.

It is not his job to lead us on Social issues the country faces just as it is in military and economic ones?

Its a pretty simple and effective analogy. This kid that was killed doing nothing wrong (sorry I think attacking someone stalking you at night is self defense) could very well have been Obama who as the current president of the U.S. is the most powerful human to have existed.

Do you really think there isn't a huge part of this country that looks at a kid like Trayvon and discounts who he can become?

He has been in office for 5 years and he addresses race quite rarely. If I was the first black president I would remind every white reporter I encountered what he score is.

Thanks

tonyparra · 07-19-2013, 07:02 PM

Im pretty sure from reading this the op and 95% of posters didnt listen to the whole speech just simply heard the words "Martin" or "Zimmerman" saw that a black person was speaking and went to click the "new thread" button.

Trend · 07-19-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Ah jeez, apparently you did not follow the actual testimony either.

I don't know why you guys keep trying. This illustrates why I don't believe there will ever be reconciliation :

Black & White : Will be the same in 100 years as it is today

Dems vs Repubs : Will be the same in 100 years as it is today

Jews & Muslims : Will be the same in 100 years as it is today

They can't change your ( correct ) position & you can't change theirs.

tonyparra · 07-19-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Wait, why is he expressing condolences to the Martin family? There are lots of perps out there getting killed; how about apologies to the Zimmerman family for putting them through this?

That really burns you up doesnt it? I contend that Zimmerman put his family through this with his actions. He was the only adult in the situation i feel no sympathy for him.

TheSquealer · 07-19-2013, 07:59 PM

Nice that Obama took time out from the extrajudicial bombing of Pakistani wedding parties and American teens with drones to comment inappropriately on the results of a trial by jury.

Grapesoda · 07-19-2013, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I 100% agree with that analogy. That kid no matter what his race would be alive if that man had not followed him around at night.

and 100% the kid would have been alive had he not been in that neighborhood, "if wishes were horses beggars would ride..." so what's your point?

Grapesoda · 07-19-2013, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyparra

That really burns you up doesnt it? I contend that Zimmerman put his family through this with his actions. He was the only adult in the situation i feel no sympathy for him.

that's pretty interesting actually... the situation, no matter what the impetus, is now blacks, liberals and the media falsifying and manipulating those actions.. are there no adults there as well?

TheSquealer · 07-19-2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyparra

Im pretty sure from reading this the op and 95% of posters didnt listen to the whole speech just simply heard the words "Martin" or "Zimmerman" saw that a black person was speaking and went to click the "new thread" button.

maybe 95% of posters are tired of a black man, that grew up in Hawaii, went to private schools, continued on to what? 3 Ivy league schools, who then became a lawyer... who then became Senator,... who then became the first black President in the history of the USA and who was then re-elected talking about how how he understands what its like to have a tough life and how he understands how horribly everyone has it.... while telling everyone how shitty everything is?

Imagine if he just used his position and his story to become one of the greatest inspirations and most positive and moving leaders of our time, instead...

07-19-2013, 03:30 PM	#60
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	I don't get the whole thing, Travon was bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground and Zimmerman shot him to protect himself. It was a gated community, Zimmerman was a watch for that community, are people outraged because a man defended himself against a black man? Nothing during the trial indicated race or racism. And please don't call him a kid, I was 17 when I joined the NAVY __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

07-19-2013, 03:30 PM	#62
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	Damn ADG...you really are caught up in Obama-mania! lol I'm sorry I ever questioned the motives and integrity of this living saint on Earth. heh-heh I will now join you in jerking off to that lovely pic of the Prez __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

07-19-2013, 06:15 PM	#90
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	In about 20 years, all of the angry white people complaining about this speech will be dead...some of them are probably in this thread now. Hopefully we can start progressing once these fuckers are out of the way and in the ground --and out of our government making decisions that no one asks them to. __________________ Last edited by bronco67; 07-19-2013 at 06:16 PM..

07-19-2013, 07:02 PM	#94
tonyparra Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: In your back seat with duck tape Posts: 4,568	Im pretty sure from reading this the op and 95% of posters didnt listen to the whole speech just simply heard the words "Martin" or "Zimmerman" saw that a black person was speaking and went to click the "new thread" button. __________________ High Performance Vps $10 Linode Manage your Digital Ocean, Linode, or Favorite Cloud Server. Simple, fast, and secure Server Pilot

07-19-2013, 07:59 PM	#97
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,145	Nice that Obama took time out from the extrajudicial bombing of Pakistani wedding parties and American teens with drones to comment inappropriately on the results of a trial by jury. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard Last edited by TheSquealer; 07-19-2013 at 08:13 PM..