brassmonkey

thye can afford to pay more! they need you to take less so they can pay executives 10 million a year!

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L-Pink

Obviously some here have never owned a business employing minimum wage workers.

Listening to you is like having a virgin tell me how good a pussy feels.

Fucking hilarious.

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Minte

And if you divided that $10 million equally among the 1/2 million employees McD's has each person would make an additional $20 a year.

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Tom_PM

Minimum wage has nothing to do with skills. It's a basic minimum wage and raising it would bring people instantly beyond the point where they could qualify for social welfare. Get behind it and you'll save money.

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Robbie

That's completely untrue. It would instantly eliminate entry level jobs and devalue skilled workers who had put in years and risen up the chain through promotions.

A person should be paid according to their skill level. Not one penny more. Unskilled labor should be paid accordingly. Skilled labor should be rewarded accordingly.

You don't "save money" by paying people more than they are worth.

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Rat King

At $20 an hour, we'll have to switch GFY to GSY (Go Stuff Yourself) bc adult won't be worth it if you can make that flippin' burgers.

The OP's arguments are extremely misleading which I am sure he is just repeating.

First, the prices are not staying the same, they grow as our economy grows. I worked 2 fast food jobs, one in high school and one in college. They earn almost twice now what I did.

Secondly, it sounds like there's a ton of single moms working fast food which is just not the case. That demographic is a very small number of over all fast food workers. Look up "New York Time's demographics in fast food."

Flipping burgers, dropping fries, and filling drinks are not meant to be careers. Those jobs are for high schoolers looking for summer jobs and first time jobs to build skills.

brassmonkey

somebody has to make peanuts right? that's what the world is based on. some companies like consumer cellular give back.

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L-Pink

If the minimum wage went to $38,000 the unemployment numbers would soar.

75% of all new jobs are created by small business. 50% of all workers are employed by small businesses. Most small businesses would fail or never get launched if entry level jobs started at such an absurd figure.

All your boarder line restaurant franchises as well as mom&pop locations would fold. So would a large percentage of franchised McDonalds.

But hey, some dumb 18 year old mother of 2 would be making $38,000 a year selling $10. Big Macks to a declining cliental. Wonderful.


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SBJ

$15-$20 per hour working at MCDs? hell no but I do think they should pay more than the $7 they are paying them currently in places like NYC. The cost of living has went up so much yet the wages earned hasn't.

I say $10 or $11 per hour starting wage would help a lot of people without ill effects.


BTW I'm not sure who said it and I don't feel like looking back a page to quote but someone said that his wife was paid $6.50 per hour as she went through college and he made like $8 per hour.. When was this 10 or 15 years ago? 10 years ago gas cost $1.40 per gallon

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Buff

Study some economics, specifically read about the marginal value of labor. You're welcome.

tony286

They wouldn't cost $10 because you can only charge what the market will bear. Also the mom making $8 bucks you are paying for her. Also its funny people in an industry that depends on discretionary income. Wants those wages not to go up when they are being the new normal for jobs available.

Minte

That's right. someone does. The good news, is this is still America. No one is forced to work for minimum wage.

The only challenge is they actually have to put forth some effort. Tech schools, colleges, apprenticeships. There is opportunity everywhere.

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L-Pink

"you can only charge what the market will bear" EXACTLY!! And if your cost of doing business is higher that your profit margins guess what? You close the the store, everyone is out of a job.

Ever do business projections Tony? Ever own a retail store? Ever try and plug in $38,000 as a starting wage in a service oriented business and see a positive bottom line?

Impossible. A dream. American consumers won't pay for it.


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dyna mo

gotta raise everybody's pay in the chain if you raise the min wage up that much. what"s the manager currenty make? 25-45k? so raise the manager's pay, then his/her pay will start getting to close to the general manager's pay, she'll need a raise, and so on.

ThunderBalls

Christ. I've never seen more people so concerned over the price of a damn big mac.

In the half dozen or so businesses I've had over the past 30 years not once have I ever paid minimum wage, nor would I ever. Treating your employees well pays dividends well beyond the few bucks an hour you're saving. There are two kinds of workers, those who hate their job and will do anything to not have to be there, and those who like their job. The former don't give a damn about your business, will steal any chance they get, trash the company to customers, etc, etc, etc. The latter is an asset who takes pride in their work, they feel good about their job and customers also pick up on that. Right now I only employ 9 people, its not much but I sleep better knowing they don't go home starving every night.

dyna mo

videobunch

You have to remember also, if a person is making $15-20 hr, it is costing the company in taxes, SS, unemployment and another $8-10/hr. So that paying that person $15-20 is costing the company $22-30/hr. They will also want healthcare to be provided with will cost the company another $6/hr. So now that uneducated person is costing $30-38/hr.

No small business can afford that and a large business will not eat the cost, the consumer will.

There is no way any educated person with common sense can think this will be good. I just do not see any good that can come.

A person is paid what they are worth, not what they are entitled to.

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videobunch

100% agree, except I do not eat mcdonalds, Crap will kill you. Always paid my people more, actually way more because I would rather have 3 good employees instead of 6 bad ones.

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dyna mo

you guys paying completely unskilled labor more, think that creates not only improved performance but loyalty?

first hand experience has shown me that kicks in the entitlement gene bigtime and creates zero incentive to perform better. why should they, they're already making more than they should and they know it.

ThunderBalls

This is seriously the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time, have you ever had a job? You obviously don't now since all you do is post idiotic shit on here day and night, but have you ever?

Helix

You can't compare service industry jobs to manufacturing jobs. wtf

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Seth Manson

A big mac isnt worth 68 cents more. None of that fast food shit is even worth what it costs now.

dyna mo

no, i've never had a job. brilliant observation einstein.

however, i've hired and fired shitheads like you often.

dyna mo

what's so fucking funny about this is how fast you turned into a shithead.

simply asked if it created loyalty and better perf because in my experience, paying absolutely completely unskilled labor more money because i want to sleep better backfires everytime

ThunderBalls

Doubt that. Especially if you think paying people less makes them work harder. Makes me think you've never been exposed to any type of work environment.

Are you collecting SSI for downs syndrome? Tell me if you are, I don't like making fun of sick people.

dyna mo

when did i say paying people less makes sense? now your just making shit up to try and insult. i mean really.


i pay people what they earn. i know that's a bizarre concept to you, you need your beauty sleep so you gotta pay off everyone around you, i get it.

dyna mo

paying completely unskilled labor more money so you can sleep better?

and you're trying to claim you're a business owner?


hahahahahahaha

jtfc.

SBJ

wow that is the the dumbest reply in this thread! Congrats

Now again I don't think they should be making $15-20 per hour but I do think they deserve more than $7 per hour in 2013. You get what you pay for. Pay a guy $7 and they will not give a shit cause it might cost them more in gas and babysitting than it's worth to work. Pay them $10 or $11 and they will care more about not spitting in your next sandwich..

I haven't worked a job in over 10 yrs besides adult but before that I worked 15+ years. When I was 14 I washed dishes for my grandmas restaurant. When I was 16 I did a few min wage fast food jobs that started at like $3.35 back in 1986. In 1991 I started a factory job for $7.50 per hour. In 2002 when I quit that factory job I was making $13 per hour.

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dyna mo

again, i pay people what they earn. how is that so hard for some of you to read? and my reply is the dumb one? lolololol

dyna mo

what's so fucking funny about your post is that i was simply asking a question about other's experience and stating my own.

if you think that's dumb, well,..not sure what else to say about that. you and thunderballs can hang out.

Robbie

For fucks sake! We're talking about teenagers who are UNSKILLED labor taking your fucking order at McDonalds.

They do NOT love their job and never will. If they did love their job, they would do it better than anybody else and rise up the chain of promotions and EARN more money.

THAT is the incentive to succeed. You don't just hand people money for nothing.

They don't deserve even minimum wage...which is why there is a separate lower minimum wage for service industry.

Yes, ENTRY level pay is low. You do NOT pay entry level any more than what they are worth.
And the cream will rise to the top and get promoted and make more money. The rest...are worth whatever low level they end up at.

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ThunderBalls

when did I say you said paying people less makes sense? now your just making shit up to try and insult. i mean really.

kane

The overall theory is that if McDonald's paid $20/hr other fast food places and low wage places like Walmart would be forced to do the same. Then since those people would be making more money they would have a higher standard of living and those of them that are currently also collecting some kind of government aid like food stamps, housing assistance, health insurance, daycare help etc would no longer need it or need as much of it. This would lower the government's costs and thus lower taxes. In the end you might have to pay a small amount more for the things you buy, but the tax savings would more than offset it.

The problem with the theory is that the government never really lowers taxes. They would just find other ways to spend that money so we would end up at the same tax rate while also paying more for many goods and services. This would then leave us with only the hope that these overall higher wages made for a better economy where everyone made more money and were better off, but I have yet to see any real evidence that this would actually happen.

In the end, sure, these places could pay a lot more (I read a few years ago that Walmart could double most of their employees pay and only have to raise their prices by about 1.5%-2% to cover the cost), but it doesn't appear that these thing really have a large, overall benefit to the economy as a whole.

dyna mo

wait, i'm still chuckling at your trying to claim that paying someone who has already shown a complete lack of motivation to learn an employable skillset, more money to motivate them to perform better.



gimme a few tics before you crack me up again man.

baddog

You are fucking insane

That would be total bullshit too . . . I am bailing from this thread . . . too many silly comments.

clickhappy

This Is What Would Happen If Fast-Food Workers Got Raises

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...rs-got-raises?

brassmonkey

you are old as shit

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ThunderBalls

Yes that is quite humorous. Even more so since I said nothing to the sort. Why the need to fabricate shit to prove a point? Is it that weak of an argument that you have to lie?

Captain Kawaii

I can see a fair living wage at $12.50 or so. 15 or 20? No way. These are monkey jobs for old people, high school kids and losers who did not graduate or are barely literate.

Want a better job, get better pay? Go to school and get a degree in a field that pays.
We live in a capitalist world. McDonalds inc is not going to become a social welfare net.

McDonalds should pay a fair wage but not an absurd amount like 15-20. I think the 15$ an hour ploy by the guy in Kansas City is a bargaining chip. He is smarter than that to think he can get it at full 15 plus.

L-Pink

What a lame insult, you sure seem jealous he's going to live a full life. But understandable with you standing a 1 in 3 chance of going to prison then getting shived or HIV.

.

johnnyloadproductions

Yeah, but if he keeps trolling you and baddog, that'll keep him out of trouble.

dyna mo

you're way over your head here. not only is your troll hand weak, you actually expect real business owners here to think you pay your crew extra. small biz owners i've ever known loses sleep every month worrying about making payroll.

you're getting more sleep from paying more!

running a small biz like a charity, yeah, they'll study that business model at wharton.

mikesinner

#12 sounds good to me but the problem is this really does nothing. After a year or so prices increase and that money is no longer giving them a better life. You could argue that it takes 2-3 years for food and goods prices to stabilize with the new income but really we should be doing other things to make poor peoples lives better.

I still say healthcare is the way to go. Free education or job training for the working poor would be great.

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Axeman

The other issue with the theory is the fact that all skilled labor will also demand more money to be in line with the increased in pay, their skills warrant. In McDonald's alone, that would mean the assistant manager, manager and GM etc.

Then you take college graduates. Teachers, Police Officers, Welders, Electricians, Doctors etc. They will demand more money, and be entitled it, based on their skill set. And if given, inflation rises rapidly, and these low entry level unskilled workers are back to the same spending power they had before. Things just cost more.

And if you don't pay the skilled workers what they are worth, then you are going to see a brain drain, as there is no incentive for these people to get educated and spend all that money on tuition if the net pay is just over what it would be to work fast food. Why put yourself if in debt, and have a job with stress, if you can get paid good money, for a carefree job like flipping burgers at McDonalds.

Utopia is just that. An idealistic dream, but never achievable.

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kane

Exactly. If a guy is working at a job right now making $20/hr then suddenly McDonalds is paying $20, the other guy is going to want $30+/hr. This will cause a rise in wages across the board.

This is still sustainable if taxes go down as much or more than the rise in consumer costs, but that will never happen.

SuckOnThis

You think its bad business to pay above minimum wage? You're starting to rank up there with Rich and Stickyfingers as the biggest retard in GFY history.

SuckOnThis

So your whole economic experience comes from eating chicken at KFC today...what a special gift you have. Are you also able to solve your towns infrastructure issues by peering your head out of your moms trailer?

Barefootsies

Exactly.

However, that does not even get into the REAL COST to the business. Just because some Mcwebmaster makes minimum wage, that does not represent the ACTUAL COST to that business. There is a lot of additional expense for any one worker that most never factor in. If you provide a worker with vacation time, health or other benefits, insurance, workman's comp, taxes, uniforms, whatever.

The point being, all of that is an additional cost to the business over and above the hourly wage expense to one working employee. It seems that when people are throwing around these numbers, they somehow always forget all of these other expenses and cost to the business for this worker. I can assure you it's much higher than their hourly wage.

If a $10.00/hour (over minimum wage) is getting health benefits of any kind from their employer, especially if they have a family, they are truly making more like $15.00+ an hour as a TRUE COST to that business once you break down the cost of health policy over their hours worked. Add in vacation and personal days off, and the rest that each worker represents in TRUE COST and it blows a lot of these numbers out of the water.

When does it end? We need to provide these people $20.00/hour jobs for flipping McBurgers, provide them outfits, health insurance, paid leave, workman's comp, 401k unti the cost to the business is $40-50/hour per worker?!?!?! How much more per big mac will the consumer be willing to pay to achieve this?

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Enough Said.

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Socks

But we also have a society that values work in sometimes illogical ways. Athletes getting paid millions while the guy who cures cancer will probably make a few hundred grand a year. Teachers vs Lawyers. People who can see differences in the values of markets make billions.

I have a job where I go to meetings, answer e-mails, and write proposals, manage people.. at $40/hr. I think I have to be skilled in some ways, but there was certainly 0 "job training" or instruction even. Not to mention I work at home, go in only when I have to, and record my own hours with no supervision.

My wife on the other hand works at the airport for ~$15/hr, and her job is much harder and requires a lot more training. She has entire books with notes in them that she refers to in order to use their system. If they send someone whose passport expires within say 6 months to certain places in the world, the country won't accept them and sends them back.. For 2 people that could be a $15,000 fine to her company.

Not to mention the people yelling at you every day because you work at the airport and people are frustrated with delays, fees and cancellations. The worst is when someone misses their wedding because they didn't check their passport and the rules...

Oh, and it's part time, 4 hour shifts... We all know why.

Am I more skilled than her? I doubt it.

I have a grade 11 education. My skill is instilling confidence.

AdultKing

Minimum wage in Australia is $16.37 plus loading plus superannuation.

Most McDonalds workers get above this.