Penguin 2.1 Now Live - GoFuckYourself.com

ITraffic · 10-06-2013, 02:11 PM

how is everyones sites faring?

http://searchengineland.com/penguin-...-5-live-173632

nexcom28 · 10-06-2013, 02:19 PM

I thought penguin had gone and this was Seagull, I mean Hummingbird..

nexcom28 · 10-06-2013, 02:21 PM

Well whether it's penguin or Hummingbird or a mix of the two, it's fucking me over real bad.

Thanks for that Google. I wish I hadn't bought so mant adwords of off you.

sarah-teamcmp · 10-06-2013, 02:24 PM

so far i don't see it doing too much damage, but it's not helping any that's for sure

tokmansta · 10-06-2013, 02:25 PM

My viagra spam site is down damn...

Seth Manson · 10-06-2013, 03:09 PM

traffic is up!!

nexcom28 · 10-06-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Manson

traffic is up!!

Yeah, for me too. How are sales?

Seth Manson · 10-06-2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexcom28

Yeah, for me too. How are sales?

Sales seem about the same as during the week, which hopefully means they are up since they are normally lower than weekdays. Will find out tomorrow!

AllAboutCams · 10-06-2013, 04:14 PM

25% drop in my best site

ErectMedia · 10-06-2013, 04:30 PM

Took a quick look, search traffic looks slightly higher on my best site, I'll dig into it more in a few days and check all my sites as heading to Ohio tomorrow.

livexxx · 10-06-2013, 05:04 PM

even wikipedia got fucked on this one

socialerts · 10-06-2013, 11:27 PM

One of my sites got totally fucked, some of the keywords didn't loose that much ranking but the URL changed.
Dumb ass google...

PeR930 · 10-06-2013, 11:43 PM

No change here.

nexcom28 · 10-06-2013, 11:53 PM

Dumb ass Google indeed.

Now when you search for an article my sites show in the SERPS but on both sites it's the tag page that is shown rather than the relevant article itself.

In my quick analysis for pages I was previously ranking p1 for:

An authority site written in 2005 is #1, my site written in 2013 isn't even top 30
The old problem of sites taking the entire 1st page is back after briefly being corrected.

In my random surfer search for 'skip metro suite' the page I wanted doesn't even appear in the top 50 results. Crappy spammy Chinese results make it though as do irrelevent wordpress results.

Garbage.

mopek1 · 10-07-2013, 04:05 AM

No change.

Although I was already in a deep hole so not much to lose.

Sexier · 10-07-2013, 04:45 AM

Webcam whitelabels - Huge drop around 60%

MGP / tubes - 20% drop

Paysites - 35% increase

Looks like webcams took the largest hit from this update

baggg · 10-07-2013, 05:07 AM

Had a thread about this on sat morning,still no major changes on my end

anexsia · 10-07-2013, 05:30 AM

I don't really see any changes in my traffic

Roald · 10-07-2013, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexcom28

......
The old problem of sites taking the entire 1st page is back after briefly being corrected.

.....

when was that corrected? Imo it got way worse after the last update.

Black All Through · 10-07-2013, 06:07 AM

Nice read thanks for sharing.

adultmobile · 10-07-2013, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sexier

Webcam whitelabels - Huge drop around 60%
Looks like webcams took the largest hit from this update

Google still shows in first page results a blackhat domain with livejasmin in name which simply redirects to a livejasmin whitelabel, see my posts there:

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1122803
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1121706

Until google lists in first page any domain-with-copy-keyword.com redirecting to whitelabel-with-any-unrelated-name.com I think they failed. Until then, I suggest you register things like "myfreecams-cam4-chaturbate.com" and redirect to a whitelabel "djhgfdfgfgdf.com", it will go on first page perhaps.

ls101 · 10-07-2013, 06:37 AM

Time to switch on mainstream!

Roald · 10-07-2013, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Until google lists in first page any domain-with-copy-keyword.com redirecting to whitelabel-with-any-unrelated-name.com I think they failed. Until then, I suggest you register things like "myfreecams-cam4-chaturbate.com" and redirect to a whitelabel "djhgfdfgfgdf.com", it will go on first page perhaps.

Cause it's that easy right ;)

adultmobile · 10-07-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Cause it's that easy right ;)

Denny · 10-07-2013, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Cause it's that easy right ;)

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 10-07-2013, 09:41 AM

I don't like google.

Peter-Porn · 10-07-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Google still shows in first page results a blackhat domain with livejasmin in name which simply redirects to a livejasmin whitelabel, see my posts there:

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1122803
https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1121706

Until google lists in first page any domain-with-copy-keyword.com redirecting to whitelabel-with-any-unrelated-name.com I think they failed. Until then, I suggest you register things like "myfreecams-cam4-chaturbate.com" and redirect to a whitelabel "djhgfdfgfgdf.com", it will go on first page perhaps.

Why don't you report him to google???

sandman! · 10-07-2013, 10:02 AM

no changes here

Magnetron · 10-07-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nexcom28

Well whether it's penguin or Hummingbird or a mix of the two, it's fucking me over real bad.

Hummingbird is supposed to a completely new engine that has Penguin parts.

Dakini22 · 10-07-2013, 12:11 PM

Such a good update... congrats G, now the first page of my targeting keywords is full of comment spaming websites.. No woryes i will switch to this tactic too.. fkin G

freemarket · 10-07-2013, 12:51 PM

One site is down like 90 percent. Another is down about 50 percent. The rest are untouched. This update got us bad.

Godsmack · 10-07-2013, 01:13 PM

50% up for my tube since 2 days ago, will probably not last... will see

spiederman · 10-07-2013, 02:06 PM

first 2 pages on one of my min keywords are now filled with.....fucking forum discussions

lucas131 · 10-07-2013, 02:18 PM

google and everyone there can get cancer ...

lucas131 · 10-07-2013, 02:20 PM

torrents and file indexers on the first pages ... for new porn sites i got from page three to page 30, and there is like serious-partners website on page 8 and so ... total out of mind serps, they really can get fucked to the ass ... google fucked up seriously bad ... nobody there knows whats going on and how to do anything with it ... google is fucked up and useless ...

lucas131 · 10-07-2013, 02:21 PM

i am getting some serps to some keywords on sites that are totally without those keywords, and some seoed pages that worked for years are now on page 30+ ... seriously, fuck off google bitch!

bluebook18 · 10-07-2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucas131

torrents and file indexers on the first pages ... for new porn sites i got from page three to page 30, and there is like serious-partners website on page 8 and so ... total out of mind serps, they really can get fucked to the ass ... google fucked up seriously bad ... nobody there knows whats going on and how to do anything with it ... google is fucked up and useless ...

torrents are everywhere.

nexcom28 · 10-07-2013, 03:23 PM

This is really bad. I don't think I am alone in feeling hard done by.

oppoten · 10-07-2013, 03:37 PM

The landscape created by these Google updates is depressing. The web just gets smaller and smaller and smaller

seeric · 10-07-2013, 04:12 PM

These threads never get old. You guys are still SEOing like its 2006. Stop caring about what Google does and just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank for the terms you want. There is no more gaming the system in any kind of a white way. Grey and black it up all you want still these days, but if you aren't traveling those roads, then just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank.

lucas131 · 10-07-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

These threads never get old. You guys are still SEOing like its 2006. Stop caring about what Google does and just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank for the terms you want. There is no more gaming the system in any kind of a white way. Grey and black it up all you want still these days, but if you aren't traveling those roads, then just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank.

you mean sites with stolen content so people will link and come back? that is the most i see in google so far ...

seeric · 10-07-2013, 04:20 PM

No that's not what I mean. I said what I mean. Build good sites. Provide excellent content. People will link to you because you have good sites. You will gain traffic. You will rank.

** It's really time for people to get over the stolen content thing. Until someone changes the laws, there is no such thing as "stolen content". It's "user uploaded", and there are safe harbor provisions in the DMCA to protect sites/isps hosting said "user uploaded" content. That is that. End of the story. So change the laws because Google is just doing it's job, which is showing people authority sites in relevant keyword categories with loads of relevant content related to those keywords.

*** disclaimer *** For the record, I hate content thieves more than anyone. But this is the reality now, and I've adopted new perspectives on things. Until you do the same, you will be imprisoned by your beliefs and won't be able to see the ways to adjust your business going forward to compete with free and/or stolen. Think on that a few.

adultmobile · 10-07-2013, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter-Porn

Why don't you report him to google???

There should be thousands if not million sites to be reported as in first page "in error"

lucas131 · 10-07-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

No that's not what I mean. I said what I mean. Build good sites. Provide excellent content. People will link to you because you have good sites. You will gain traffic. You will rank.

** It's really time for people to get over the stolen content thing. Until someone changes the laws, there is no such thing as "stolen content". It's "user uploaded", and there are safe harbor provisions in the DMCA to protect sites/isps hosting said "user uploaded" content. That is that. End of the story. So change the laws because Google is just doing it's job, which is showing people authority sites in relevant keyword categories with loads of relevant content related to those keywords.

*** disclaimer *** For the record, I hate content thieves more than anyone. But this is the reality now, and I've adopted new perspectives on things. Until you do the same, you will be imprisoned by your beliefs and won't be able to see the ways to adjust your business going forward to compete with free and/or stolen. Think on that a few.

unless you build something like freeones, or some established review site like thebestporn, why would people link to you? i have sites with new porn sites, i am getting some links back, i am getting bookmarkers returning daily, still my site is on page 30, even if its unique and nothing like that is anywhere else ... so, what else to build? buy unique content and just publish it for free? or take free content from sponsors that everyone else have? man, google is now pro pirate and everyone without stolen content have it very hard or almost impossible to get traffic from there ...

it will be nice to see some other examples, but i think they are not, or dont want to be posted

congrats to everyone who is doing legit business and is having grow in his traffic and sales

mopek1 · 10-07-2013, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

Build good sites. Provide excellent content. People will link to you because you have good sites. You will gain traffic. You will rank.

I have found that I build good sites and make good content and do get people linking to me.

Not other webmasters since they are in competition with me.

I get social media and forum links. Over the years I've gotten 'some' links but not nearly what is needed to rank.

As a webmaster I've found you have to get the links (and everything else) yourself. People won't do it for you (or at least enough for you).

seeric · 10-08-2013, 07:39 AM

Lucas131 I'm really not hammering on you, but you've got to adjust your outlook on things. Google is not PRO pirate. Google is PRO authority website.

Google is not part of the adult business. They are not your friend. They do not owe you any traffic. Google has generated every hit of traffic to their site. The lion share of Googles traffic is type in and/or address bar searching. YOU have to earn their traffic. The way you do that is by doing the things I've listed.

They will continue to show their site visitors the best sites for the keywords that the visitor is searching for on THEIR engine. We all have our own issues with different terms, and the seo space is certainly much different than it was even a year ago, but you have to keep shifting. I do not even look at keywords ranking anymore.

Once a quarter I will run a report to see what is where and go from there. Step back, analyze a larger picture and data set. You will never know again what's going on with Google unless you do that. They are rolling out daily updates these days.

Hope this helps.

mopek1 · 10-08-2013, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeric

Lucas131 I'm really not hammering on you, but you've got to adjust your outlook on things. Google is not PRO pirate. Google is PRO authority website.

Google is not part of the adult business. They are not your friend. They do not owe you any traffic. Google has generated every hit of traffic to their site. The lion share of Googles traffic is type in and/or address bar searching. YOU have to earn their traffic. The way you do that is by doing the things I've listed.

They will continue to show their site visitors the best sites for the keywords that the visitor is searching for on THEIR engine. We all have our own issues with different terms, and the seo space is certainly much different than it was even a year ago, but you have to keep shifting. I do not even look at keywords ranking anymore.

Once a quarter I will run a report to see what is where and go from there. Step back, analyze a larger picture and data set. You will never know again what's going on with Google unless you do that. They are rolling out daily updates these days.

Hope this helps.

So you think they have nothing at all against adult sites or affiliate sites. That they are objectively trying to give the best results possible? I don't think any entity that is trying to make money is ever THAT neutral.

ITraffic · 10-08-2013, 07:49 AM

blackhat sites were rewarded with this update. white or grey hat sites were punished. that is the reality. that is no "theory."

ITraffic · 10-08-2013, 07:56 AM

google is increasingly pushing out adult sites from the serps. that is an objective fact. google "porn" and compare that to a month ago.

also google doesn't want anyone anyone making money from their results outside of adwords. looks at affiliates sites through that filter.

add to that how by their own admission google favors corporate sites or "brands" over mom and pop or sites created by individuals.

that is the reality of google in 2013.

"making a site for the user" is advice google gives to the rubes.

google ultimately wants you to provide your content for free so they can monetize it. don't feel bad doing whatever you have do to profit off them.

you can either be a wolf or a sheep with google. what do you want to be?

pinkz · 10-08-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITraffic

blackhat sites were rewarded with this update. white or grey hat sites were punished. that is the reality. that is no "theory."

you will probably see the BH sites take a dive within the next few days as the algo irons it self out.

10-06-2013, 04:14 PM	#9
AllAboutCams Femcams.com Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: bjcam.com Posts: 12,223	25% drop in my best site __________________ Binance - Blockchain and Crypto Asset Exchange Chaturbate make money in cams

10-06-2013, 04:30 PM	#10
ErectMedia Confirmed Chicago Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 7,100	Took a quick look, search traffic looks slightly higher on my best site, I'll dig into it more in a few days and check all my sites as heading to Ohio tomorrow. __________________ Domain Name Registration Web3 Domains Last edited by ErectMedia; 10-06-2013 at 04:34 PM..

10-06-2013, 05:04 PM	#11
livexxx Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,201	even wikipedia got fucked on this one __________________ http://www.webcamalerts.com for auto tweets for web cam operators

10-07-2013, 04:45 AM	#16
Sexier Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Celt-Iberia Posts: 364	Webcam whitelabels - Huge drop around 60% MGP / tubes - 20% drop Paysites - 35% increase Looks like webcams took the largest hit from this update __________________ Webmasters Contact: \| skype: jp_sexier Last edited by Sexier; 10-07-2013 at 04:48 AM..

10-07-2013, 06:07 AM	#20
Black All Through Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: US Posts: 2,078	Nice read thanks for sharing. __________________ I want to buy contextual links on quality blogs For both Adult and mainstream niche - Small to massive packages

10-06-2013, 02:11 PM	#1
ITraffic Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,725	Penguin 2.1 Now Live how is everyones sites faring? http://searchengineland.com/penguin-...-5-live-173632

10-06-2013, 02:19 PM	#2
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	I thought penguin had gone and this was Seagull, I mean Hummingbird..

10-06-2013, 02:21 PM	#3
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	Well whether it's penguin or Hummingbird or a mix of the two, it's fucking me over real bad. Thanks for that Google. I wish I hadn't bought so mant adwords of off you.

10-06-2013, 02:24 PM	#4
sarah-teamcmp Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 129	so far i don't see it doing too much damage, but it's not helping any that's for sure

10-06-2013, 02:25 PM	#5
tokmansta Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 566	My viagra spam site is down damn...

10-06-2013, 03:09 PM	#6
Seth Manson Please dont fuck animals Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 3,988	traffic is up!!

10-06-2013, 11:27 PM	#12
socialerts Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 264	One of my sites got totally fucked, some of the keywords didn't loose that much ranking but the URL changed. Dumb ass google...

10-06-2013, 11:43 PM	#13
PeR930 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 283	No change here.

10-06-2013, 11:53 PM	#14
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	Dumb ass Google indeed. Now when you search for an article my sites show in the SERPS but on both sites it's the tag page that is shown rather than the relevant article itself. In my quick analysis for pages I was previously ranking p1 for: An authority site written in 2005 is #1, my site written in 2013 isn't even top 30 The old problem of sites taking the entire 1st page is back after briefly being corrected. In my random surfer search for 'skip metro suite' the page I wanted doesn't even appear in the top 50 results. Crappy spammy Chinese results make it though as do irrelevent wordpress results. Garbage.

10-07-2013, 04:05 AM	#15
mopek1 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 3,105	No change. Although I was already in a deep hole so not much to lose.

10-07-2013, 05:07 AM	#17
baggg So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: EEA Posts: 1,432	Had a thread about this on sat morning,still no major changes on my end

10-07-2013, 05:30 AM	#18
anexsia Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 5,735	I don't really see any changes in my traffic

10-07-2013, 06:37 AM	#22
ls101 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 713	Time to switch on mainstream!

10-07-2013, 09:41 AM	#26
Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE Barterer Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,864	I don't like google. Last edited by Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE; 10-07-2013 at 09:43 AM..

10-07-2013, 10:02 AM	#28
sandman! Icq: 14420613 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: chicago Posts: 15,432	no changes here __________________ Need WebHosting ? Email me for some great deals [email protected]

10-07-2013, 12:11 PM	#30
Dakini22 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Candyland Posts: 45	Such a good update... congrats G, now the first page of my targeting keywords is full of comment spaming websites.. No woryes i will switch to this tactic too.. fkin G __________________ ICQ Contact: 666983620

10-07-2013, 12:51 PM	#31
freemarket Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 67	One site is down like 90 percent. Another is down about 50 percent. The rest are untouched. This update got us bad.

10-07-2013, 01:13 PM	#32
Godsmack Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,525	50% up for my tube since 2 days ago, will probably not last... will see __________________ Download the much improved Free Tube Script adult/mainstream tube solution for FREE!

10-07-2013, 02:06 PM	#33
spiederman Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,216	first 2 pages on one of my min keywords are now filled with.....fucking forum discussions __________________ xcams-partners: up to €200 PPS\|crakrevenue: Promote MyFreecams @ crakrevenue\|Plugrush: Buy and sell your traffic icq# 610-522-509 <---- dont add me for crap i DON'T ask for isliveHD\| Latex tube\|Androidcams\|ipadcams

10-07-2013, 02:18 PM	#34
lucas131 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,475	google and everyone there can get cancer ...

10-07-2013, 02:20 PM	#35
lucas131 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,475	torrents and file indexers on the first pages ... for new porn sites i got from page three to page 30, and there is like serious-partners website on page 8 and so ... total out of mind serps, they really can get fucked to the ass ... google fucked up seriously bad ... nobody there knows whats going on and how to do anything with it ... google is fucked up and useless ...

10-07-2013, 02:21 PM	#36
lucas131 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,475	i am getting some serps to some keywords on sites that are totally without those keywords, and some seoed pages that worked for years are now on page 30+ ... seriously, fuck off google bitch!

10-07-2013, 03:23 PM	#38
nexcom28 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,716	This is really bad. I don't think I am alone in feeling hard done by.

10-07-2013, 03:37 PM	#39
oppoten NAME THE JEW Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4,793	The landscape created by these Google updates is depressing. The web just gets smaller and smaller and smaller

10-07-2013, 04:12 PM	#40
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	These threads never get old. You guys are still SEOing like its 2006. Stop caring about what Google does and just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank for the terms you want. There is no more gaming the system in any kind of a white way. Grey and black it up all you want still these days, but if you aren't traveling those roads, then just build good sites, with great content, people will link to you, your traffic will grow, and you will rank.

10-07-2013, 04:20 PM	#42
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	No that's not what I mean. I said what I mean. Build good sites. Provide excellent content. People will link to you because you have good sites. You will gain traffic. You will rank. It's really time for people to get over the stolen content thing. Until someone changes the laws, there is no such thing as "stolen content". It's "user uploaded", and there are safe harbor provisions in the DMCA to protect sites/isps hosting said "user uploaded" content. That is that. End of the story. So change the laws because Google is just doing it's job, which is showing people authority sites in relevant keyword categories with loads of relevant content related to those keywords. * disclaimer *** For the record, I hate content thieves more than anyone. But this is the reality now, and I've adopted new perspectives on things. Until you do the same, you will be imprisoned by your beliefs and won't be able to see the ways to adjust your business going forward to compete with free and/or stolen. Think on that a few. Last edited by seeric; 10-07-2013 at 04:23 PM..

10-08-2013, 07:39 AM	#46
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	Lucas131 I'm really not hammering on you, but you've got to adjust your outlook on things. Google is not PRO pirate. Google is PRO authority website. Google is not part of the adult business. They are not your friend. They do not owe you any traffic. Google has generated every hit of traffic to their site. The lion share of Googles traffic is type in and/or address bar searching. YOU have to earn their traffic. The way you do that is by doing the things I've listed. They will continue to show their site visitors the best sites for the keywords that the visitor is searching for on THEIR engine. We all have our own issues with different terms, and the seo space is certainly much different than it was even a year ago, but you have to keep shifting. I do not even look at keywords ranking anymore. Once a quarter I will run a report to see what is where and go from there. Step back, analyze a larger picture and data set. You will never know again what's going on with Google unless you do that. They are rolling out daily updates these days. Hope this helps.

10-08-2013, 07:49 AM	#48
ITraffic Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,725	blackhat sites were rewarded with this update. white or grey hat sites were punished. that is the reality. that is no "theory."

10-08-2013, 07:56 AM	#49
ITraffic Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,725	google is increasingly pushing out adult sites from the serps. that is an objective fact. google "porn" and compare that to a month ago. also google doesn't want anyone anyone making money from their results outside of adwords. looks at affiliates sites through that filter. add to that how by their own admission google favors corporate sites or "brands" over mom and pop or sites created by individuals. that is the reality of google in 2013. "making a site for the user" is advice google gives to the rubes. google ultimately wants you to provide your content for free so they can monetize it. don't feel bad doing whatever you have do to profit off them. you can either be a wolf or a sheep with google. what do you want to be? Last edited by ITraffic; 10-08-2013 at 07:57 AM..