Sad Truth About Healthcare

[L-Pink]

There is no reason every citizen of the US shouldn't have health care. Especially since we are already paying for it as a nation.

As a nation we already spend more than any other country on health care! We spend more per capita than any other country. We spend more as percentage of our Gross Domestic Product than any other country.

We, the citizens of the United States already pay more for health care than any citizen of any other country and look at the mess we're in! Every one of us should take a long hard look at our elected "leaders" My advise? Reelect NO ONE.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... )_per_capita


.

[MaDalton]

the problem is that every reform of the health care system would mean lower profits for many of the involved companies and there are enough lobbyists to prevent that

[The Heron]

We pay more because we get the newest stuff and subsidize the rest of the world. We also spend a lot on end of life stuff, those last couple years really jack up the price. No easy fix.

[BlackCrayon]

true enough, with the money already spent via taxes all citizens should already be covered. where is this money going and how is it being spent should be questioned by everyone.

too many people don't want to have to pay more than "their share" meanwhile they would most likely pay less in taxes to support a universal healthcare system than what they are paying for healthcare insurance. i have been to the doctors like twice in the last ten years but am i bitter about having to pay taxes that goes to others healthcare all those years? no.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We pay more because we get the newest stuff and subsidize the rest of the world. We also spend a lot on end of life stuff, those last couple years really jack up the price. No easy fix.

here it is in a nut shell

[Barry-xlovecam]

QFT

We are not getting a fair return on investment.

While the doctors and other healthcare workers deserve a better than average living standard some of the excesses are ridiculous.

Probably 80%+ are educated in publicly funded universities. One starting step would be to subsidise medical educations in return for 15 years work at publicly funded primary care clinics at reasonable wages. I am not talking downward spiral here like minimum wage but a decent upper middle class income wage scale with malpractice tort limits. The lawyers are a part of these high medical costs too -- we need to recognize that problem and overcome it.

[mikesinner]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We pay more because we get the newest stuff and subsidize the rest of the world. We also spend a lot on end of life stuff, those last couple years really jack up the price. No easy fix.

Nope, that's not true at all. We spend more because most Americans are idiots and it's much easier for big government and corps to fleece their citizens if they remain stupid. It's also easier to get them to believe your lies.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

the problem is that every reform of the health care system would mean lower profits for many of the involved companies and there are enough lobbyists to prevent that

it might seem that way however these for the most part are publicly traded companies AND I know how politically correct is to blame everyfucking thing on pharma BUT the cost to bring medicine/treatments to the public is 'ASTRONOMICAL'. for every new drug or treatment that make it, there are 20+ failed attempts that cost millions and millions each... think of it in your terms ma... you make 'x' net of your shoots however the roi is a bit lower due to the issues centered around models. in other words the roi and the net are not equal and if your going to say 'well in the czeck' models never flake and there are no issue start making drugs and get rich

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

QFT

We are not getting a fair return on investment.

While the doctors and other healthcare workers deserve a better than average living standard some of the excesses are ridiculous.

Probably 80%+ are educated in publicly funded universities. One starting step would be to subsidise medical educations in return for 15 years work at publicly funded primary care clinics at reasonable wages. I am not talking downward spiral here like minimum wage but a decent upper middle class income wage scale with malpractice tort limits. The lawyers are a part of these high medical costs too -- we need to recognize that problem and overcome it.

yes going to school for 20 years should be rewarded and lawyers are a MAJOR part of the price of health care... always remember lawyers need issues to make money... sorta like civil rights leaders..... no problems=no paycheck

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We pay more because we get the newest stuff and subsidize the rest of the world.

no - because you can charge $1000 for an X-Ray (which due to digital X-Ray in these days costs nada besides machine depreciation and minimal wage for the nurse, no costs for film and chemicals anymore) you can (and need) to buy new machines regularly to justify this insanity.

other countries have a catalog what an X-Ray can cost at max - which is usually something between $30 and $100

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

it might seem that way however these for the most part are publicly traded companies AND I know how politically correct is to blame everyfucking thing on pharma BUT the cost to bring medicine/treatments to the public is 'ASTRONOMICAL'. for every new drug or treatment that make it, there are 20+ failed attempts that cost millions and millions each... think of it in your terms ma... you make 'x' net of your shoots however the roi is a bit lower due to the issues centered around models. in other words the roi and the net are not equal and if your going to say 'well in the czeck' models never flake and there are no issue start making drugs and get rich

i worked about 8 years in medical business - for Siemens Medical and for Henry Schein, one of your Fortune 500 companies

i know pretty well what i am talking about - thanks

[RandyRandy]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

no - because you can charge $1000 for an X-Ray (which due to digital X-Ray in these days costs nada besides machine depreciation and minimal wage for the nurse, no costs for film and chemicals anymore) you can (and need) to buy new machines regularly to justify this insanity.

other countries have a catalog what an X-Ray can cost at max - which is usually something between $30 and $100

100% true. They charge what they can get away with, especially when you have "insurance". I had MRIs and Xrays on my knee recently - done in The Bronx, paying cash. $40 for the xray, $50 for the MRI, but I had to shop around, or I would have paid much more.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i worked about 8 years in medical business - for Siemens Medical and for Henry Schein, one of your Fortune 500 companies

i know pretty well what i am talking about - thanks

X-rays are only used in the US for bone breaks and some specialized cases. Doppler imaging as well as CAT enhanced and MRI imaging is used -- these imaging methods create much better images for problems with organs, muscles, or tissues -- this leads to better clinical diagnosis.

These imaging methods are more expensive to use but the diagnostic advantages outweigh the costs.

Still, when you compare the costs at a imaging laboratory to a hospital the hospital charges 5X the price. What makes them so fuckin' special -- they can get away with it! I can see the hospital charging 50% more that might be justified by their higher operating expense but 400% no fuckin' way.

This is a big part of the inefficient use of healthcare dollars. In a fair and open market you could not get away with this -- there has to be a certain collusion between the health insurers in this country and the hospitals.

I think that the hospitals are soaking the insured to make up for their lowered payments for patients on Medicaid or using Medicare benefits. This has not been adequately addressed IMHO -- Business as Usual

[MaDalton]

X-Ray was just an example - take whatever else you think is appropriate and compare costs...

[L-Pink]

Say what you want about Obamacare, I find it appalling the Republicans only plan was to leave it as it is. With the staggering amounts of money already being spent where is the new radical health system that should be in place?

With technology advances where is the lowering of health care costs? Streamlining of services? With the money already being spent why will some have to pay more?

Every single one of us should be appalled enough to have our own shut-down and demand some real changes. (won't happen I know but fuck when is enough enough?)


.

[arock10]

So we should have single payer? Oh republicans don't want that either

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by RandyRandy

100% true. They charge what they can get away with, especially when you have "insurance". I had MRIs and Xrays on my knee recently - done in The Bronx, paying cash. $40 for the xray, $50 for the MRI, but I had to shop around, or I would have paid much more.

Really:

http://blog.remakehealth.com/blog_He...-MRI-scan-cost
Posted by John Holden on Sun, Jan 04, 2009

MRI prices are based on a number of factors:

body part being examined
need for contrast/dye injection
done at hospital or outpatient imaging center
local competition

We decided to check our local MRI prices.

We called 5 hospitals and 5 outpatient imaging centers in our area asking for the full price for an MRI of the Brain with dye. Two hospitals were unable to give us the price (didn't know!) and one outpatient center refused to divulge its cash prices over the phone.
MRI Price Range

Hospitals (3) - $1750 to $2200
Outpatient Imaging Centers (4) - $700-$1000

We did not try to negotiate these prices during the first call. We called back and asked for a discount. Results:
Negotiated MRI Prices

And this from Canada:

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/608249
by cherrity on July 9th, 2009
cherrity

I live in Alberta and had a MRI a year ago and it cost me $550.00, our insurance usually pays but I wanted it right away and found that if I paid I could have it done in days instead of a 10 month wait. I was wondering if anyone knows the price of a cat scan as I now need one of them because I had back surgery and now have medal so I can't have an MRI. Thanks anyone who answers.
Cherrity

http://www.ehow.com/about_4761591_mri-prices.html
Average Cost of MRI

The cost of an MRI can reach between $400 and $3,000. This depends on what kind of procedure is being done and where it is being done. Two identical MRIs can have completely different prices at two different places. Taking the time to shop around is time well spent as it could save you hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. Two factors go into the pricing of an MRI. They are technical fee and professional fee. The technical fee is the actual cost of the procedure one is having done. The professional fee is the fee for having a radiologist read the results of your MRI.

High Cost

The high cost of an MRI begins with the cost of the machine itself. An average machine can cost well over $1 million and so it is necessary to charge a price that will help pay for the machine. However, this price is at the high end and can be negotiated. You can often get a discount by simply asking for one.

Insured Patients

It is important to understand your insurance policy and know what it will and will not pay for, especially before undergoing an expensive procedure. There are many insurance companies that will reimburse the cost of an MRI. In some cases a pre-certification may be necessary. If this pre-certification is not obtained your claim may be denied.

Uninsured Patients

For the uninsured, it is possible to get a discount of up to 40 percent if the full cost of the MRI is paid within 60 days. Of course, you can always pay with cash, Visa, Mastercard or American Express. Depending on how dire your financial situation is, you may qualify for an even bigger discount.

NYC medical prices are 30% to 50% above the national average -- want to share how you paid only $50.00. And if you did -- who do you think pays the rest?

[Kolargol]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We pay more because we get the newest stuff and subsidize the rest of the world. We also spend a lot on end of life stuff, those last couple years really jack up the price. No easy fix.

yes, you pay more because you get the newest stuff and you get really good healthcare. But it's not that much better than UK (#15 on the list), comparable actually.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i worked about 8 years in medical business - for Siemens Medical and for Henry Schein, one of your Fortune 500 companies

i know pretty well what i am talking about - thanks

gracious as always

[Kolargol]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We (...)subsidize the rest of the world.

How do you subsidize healthcare in the rest of the world - European countries for example?

Also, brain drain of super high skilled doctors from all over the world to USA is huge.

Thousands of doctors get trained in foreign universities, come to America and work as residents for $40k per year to get American medical license.
25% of doctors in USA are foreign graduates whose education was paid for by other countries.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

X-Ray was just an example - take whatever else you think is appropriate and compare costs...

Exactly. When I hear about prices of any medical service in US I think, WTF, how such major ripoffs can even exist. I know companies are greedy, but that much, its insane. Whatever cost 50Eur in Europe, cost 1000$ in US and so on....

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

gracious as always

happens when someone talks to me like i'm a 3rd grader that is supposed to think "in his terms"

[baddog]

While the idea of "re-elect no one" looks good on the surface, that is how the Tea Party will become a bigger PITA than they already are. Trust me, every local election I run into this crap.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

here it is in a nut shell

Sorry, both of you are so wrong it is laughable. Ma Dalton is on the nose with it. I spent 7 years in healthcare insurance for BCBS. When they went for profit it was like New Years, Christmas and the 4th of July for them.

We spend far more than any other country and often the care is substandard, the health insurers control the care almost entirely since they decide what is covered and what is not.

A friend of my wife's learned that in an emergency situation better off not to say you have insurance until after they help you.

In a metropolitan city the woman was pregnant, she began bleeding. Husband rushed her to hospital. She was foreign national from 1st world. Told the ER people she had insurance through husband's job, foreign company with US office/factory. She bled out and lost the baby because the hospital, pretty big one, said they could not treat her until her health insurance was confirmed.

Meanwhile she watched so many people come in, say no insurance or not even speak english and get treated right away.

She survived, baby died. When she got on her feet she informed her husband you have 24 hours to pack your shit up. I'm getting out of this place.

That's the impression the world has of our healthcare system. "If you go to the US don't get sick, they will fuck you up the ass."

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by baddog

While the idea of "re-elect no one" looks good on the surface, that is how the Tea Party will become a bigger PITA than they already are. Trust me, every local election I run into this crap.

Good point -- you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

We may not agree on the good guys or the bad guys but a republic with elected representative needs to find a workable compromise solution.

Ultimately, this minority holding the USA's credit rating hostage will end up paying the political price. Problem is will we the people have to pay the economic price of their pig-headedness over the issues of Obamacare's and the deficit's funding?

This is the second time, hopefully the last.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Kolargol

How do you subsidize healthcare in the rest of the world - European countries for example?

Also, brain drain of super high skilled doctors from all over the world to USA is huge.

Thousands of doctors get trained in foreign universities, come to America and work as residents for $40k per year to get American medical license.
25% of doctors in USA are foreign graduates whose education was paid for by other countries.

And we don't have the people that are citizens of this country that if given the chance, with proper qualifications and government provided or subsidised medical education, would not want these jobs?

I am not saying that foreign born, educated doctors and medical personnel are not welcome here, that is if they are able to meet our standards of care.

But in light of the current situation we have to ask ourselves: Are our people too dumb to be educated as doctors and healthcare workers? If so, we are really in a shitload of trouble.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

We may not agree on the good guys or the bad guys but a republic with elected representative needs to find a workable compromise solution.

We pay more than any country in the world for healthcare. We don't have a system that includes everyone. Our government is at a standstill. Fucking pathetic.

[Sid70]

Fact is if you have a deep finger cut bleeding you dont wanna wait 5 hours in the ER - you get served almost immediately. And you don't meet people with gun shots, or samurai sword wounds in the same lobby with other people who still have their body parts on.

At least its like that in a backward Ukraine.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

We pay more than any country in the world for healthcare. We don't have a system that includes everyone. Our government is at a standstill. Fucking pathetic.

Not arguing as I agree with you; but what if the Tea Party was in real control and not just fucking with us at every opportunity?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

happens when someone talks to me like i'm a 3rd grader that is supposed to think "in his terms"

one thing is for sure... you damn sure have your nuts twisted up in your panties

[kane]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

it might seem that way however these for the most part are publicly traded companies AND I know how politically correct is to blame everyfucking thing on pharma BUT the cost to bring medicine/treatments to the public is 'ASTRONOMICAL'. for every new drug or treatment that make it, there are 20+ failed attempts that cost millions and millions each... think of it in your terms ma... you make 'x' net of your shoots however the roi is a bit lower due to the issues centered around models. in other words the roi and the net are not equal and if your going to say 'well in the czeck' models never flake and there are no issue start making drugs and get rich

There are a couple of issues with the pharm industry though that allow for them to greatly overcharge on drugs. Sure, creating new drugs can be expensive, there is not doubt about that. However, about 50% of the funding for this research comes from either the government or foundation grants/gifts. Also, many of the medications that are out there are not new inventions they are slight improvements on past creations.

Another thing that sucks is that the way the laws are it allows to drug companies to circumvent then 10 year rule. By this I mean that when a company creates a new drug by law they get a monopoly on selling that drug for 10 years. This allows them to get their money back before lower cost generics hit the market. However, they manipulate this. Let me give you an example. I have asthma. I use an inhaler. The medication is called albuterol . It has been around forever. The brand of inhaler I was first prescribed when I was first diagnosed in 3rd grade was Proventil. That was 1980. Proventil is still on the market and is one of the major brands prescribed today. It costs about $50 per inhaler. For several years there was a generic albuterol inhaler I could buy for about $10 each. Then about 5 years ago the government forced all companies who had any kind of aerosol propellant products to change to a non CFC propellant because it was better for the environment. This including most inhalers. By modifying the propellant the pharm companies were able to renew their 10 year monopoly. They had "changed" the medicine and therefor it was considered new again. This means you can no longer guy a generic inhaler for $10 you have to shell out about $50 for the name brand. That just isn't right. The drug has gone unchanged for 30+ years yet they keep finding ways to keep the generics off the market to the price stays high.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by The Heron

We pay more because we get the newest stuff

That may have been true 10 years ago. A lot of rest of the world has caught up and is now surpassing the USA in healthcare and medical facilities. Medical tourism is beyond huge, and growing fast. Of course there are some medical issues the USA excels at, but general healthcare is much better abroad now, and usually much cheaper. It's also not uncommon to find excellent US doctors working overseas as they are also fed up with the current system.

But you are correct about there being no easy fix.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

true enough, with the money already spent via taxes all citizens should already be covered. where is this money going and how is it being spent should be questioned by everyone.

too many people don't want to have to pay more than "their share" meanwhile they would most likely pay less in taxes to support a universal healthcare system than what they are paying for healthcare insurance. i have been to the doctors like twice in the last ten years but am i bitter about having to pay taxes that goes to others healthcare all those years? no.

If you had a choice you wouldn't pay it...

[DWB]

Originally Posted by kane

There are a couple of issues with the pharm industry though that allow for them to greatly overcharge on drugs. Sure, creating new drugs can be expensive, there is not doubt about that. However, about 50% of the funding for this research comes from either the government or foundation grants/gifts. Also, many of the medications that are out there are not new inventions they are slight improvements on past creations.

Another thing that sucks is that the way the laws are it allows to drug companies to circumvent then 10 year rule. By this I mean that when a company creates a new drug by law they get a monopoly on selling that drug for 10 years. This allows them to get their money back before lower cost generics hit the market. However, they manipulate this. Let me give you an example. I have asthma. I use an inhaler. The medication is called albuterol . It has been around forever. The brand of inhaler I was first prescribed when I was first diagnosed in 3rd grade was Proventil. That was 1980. Proventil is still on the market and is one of the major brands prescribed today. It costs about $50 per inhaler. For several years there was a generic albuterol inhaler I could buy for about $10 each. Then about 5 years ago the government forced all companies who had any kind of aerosol propellant products to change to a non CFC propellant because it was better for the environment. This including most inhalers. By modifying the propellant the pharm companies were able to renew their 10 year monopoly. They had "changed" the medicine and therefor it was considered new again. This means you can no longer guy a generic inhaler for $10 you have to shell out about $50 for the name brand. That just isn't right. The drug has gone unchanged for 30+ years yet they keep finding ways to keep the generics off the market to the price stays high.

That's fucked. Have you tried getting it from outside the US? I doubt some other countries would worry about CFC propellants, and you know damn sure the pharma companies didn't just throw all their stock away. A lot of stuff that gets banned or taken off the shelf due to it being unhealthy gets sold to the poorest nations in South East Asia and Africa.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by kane

There are a couple of issues with the pharm industry though that allow for them to greatly overcharge on drugs. Sure, creating new drugs can be expensive, there is not doubt about that. However, about 50% of the funding for this research comes from either the government or foundation grants/gifts. Also, many of the medications that are out there are not new inventions they are slight improvements on past creations.

Another thing that sucks is that the way the laws are it allows to drug companies to circumvent then 10 year rule. By this I mean that when a company creates a new drug by law they get a monopoly on selling that drug for 10 years. This allows them to get their money back before lower cost generics hit the market. However, they manipulate this. Let me give you an example. I have asthma. I use an inhaler. The medication is called albuterol . It has been around forever. The brand of inhaler I was first prescribed when I was first diagnosed in 3rd grade was Proventil. That was 1980. Proventil is still on the market and is one of the major brands prescribed today. It costs about $50 per inhaler. For several years there was a generic albuterol inhaler I could buy for about $10 each. Then about 5 years ago the government forced all companies who had any kind of aerosol propellant products to change to a non CFC propellant because it was better for the environment. This including most inhalers. By modifying the propellant the pharm companies were able to renew their 10 year monopoly. They had "changed" the medicine and therefor it was considered new again. This means you can no longer guy a generic inhaler for $10 you have to shell out about $50 for the name brand. That just isn't right. The drug has gone unchanged for 30+ years yet they keep finding ways to keep the generics off the market to the price stays high.

this is very common - worldwide

just a little change in formula gives you a new 10 year monopoly and some more billions in profit.

and no one cares if that keeps people from getting the medication cause they can't afford it - let them suffer for the sake of profits.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

If you had a choice you wouldn't pay it...

if i had a choice between being covered for virtually everything and not having to worry if i have insurance or even a job vs having to pay anything from 300-1500 a month on insurance that they will try at every turn to deny me when i need it most..i would definitely chose the first option.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

this is very common - worldwide

just a little change in formula gives you a new 10 year monopoly and some more billions in profit.

and no one cares if that keeps people from getting the medication cause they can't afford it - let them suffer for the sake of profits.

Thats one of the problems I have with big pharma and even researchers. There is more money in treating issues rather than curing issues. If you do not have the money, pfft, someone else does. Its a pretty despicable industry at this point.

[kane]

Originally Posted by DWB

That's fucked. Have you tried getting it from outside the US? I doubt some other countries would worry about CFC propellants, and you know damn sure the pharma companies didn't just throw all their stock away. A lot of stuff that gets banned or taken off the shelf due to it being unhealthy gets sold to the poorest nations in South East Asia and Africa.

Here is the crazy reality of the world and medicine pricing in the US.

I take two medications for Asthma. The inhaler I mentioned and another medicine I take twice a day everyday. The regular medicine costs $320 for a 30 day supply.

I buy it online where I can still get the generic inhalers and I pay an average of about $9 per inhaler. The other medicine I also buy online and the 30 day supply is $70.

So assume I use 1 30 day supply of regular medicine and 2 inhalers per month. In the US that will cost me around $420. Online from a different country I pay about $98 and they give me free shipping.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Say what you want about Obamacare, I find it appalling the Republicans only plan was to leave it as it is. With the staggering amounts of money already being spent where is the new radical health system that should be in place?

With technology advances where is the lowering of health care costs? Streamlining of services? With the money already being spent why will some have to pay more?

Every single one of us should be appalled enough to have our own shut-down and demand some real changes. (won't happen I know but fuck when is enough enough?)


.

If you find it appalling, I'll let you into what the reason for that is and how Obama fucked himself and made so much harder on himself over Obamacare.

He had no GOP people voting for it, that is the biggest flaw with it. If he would had worked with the GOP and got some of them to approve it, we wouldn't be in this mess. The GOP and the people they represent had no say in it. That's a lot of people all because Barry didn't give a shit to include them.


It was Obama's arrogance that has caused the major divide in Washington and the nation.

If he would had been a leader and got the GOP to back the plan with some small %, all this shit would not be happening. It's all posturing now, the GOP was voted in by people that didn't feel represented

[kane]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

If you find it appalling, I'll let you into what the reason for that is and how Obama fucked himself and made so much harder on himself over Obamacare.

He had no GOP people voting for it, that is the biggest flaw with it. If he would had worked with the GOP and got some of them to approve it, we wouldn't be in this mess. The GOP and the people they represent had no say in it. That's a lot of people all because Barry didn't give a shit to include them.


It was Obama's arrogance that has caused the major divide in Washington and the nation.

If he would had been a leader and got the GOP to back the plan with some small %, all this shit would not be happening. It's all posturing now, the GOP was voted in by people that didn't feel represented

I remember him trying to include them, but they had nothing of value to offer. There was even one meeting where the republicans stood up and walked out of it. Had the shoe been on the other foot and the democrats walked out of a meeting with a republican president the republicans would have lost their minds and exploded over how disrespectful it was.

Here is summery of the republican suggested healthcare bill. It basically looks just like Obamacare without the mandate.

Obama realized there was no way he was going to get GOP approval. Since he took office the republican strategy and basically been if "Obama is for it, they are against it" no matter what. It didn't matter what he said or did he was never going to get them go along with it and he knew it so he bypassed them.

They were already butthurt about getting their asses handed to them in 2008, then when they won back the house in 2010 it emboldened them and made them feel like their "against anything Obama wants" strategy was working so they have just continued on with it.

The reason we are here now is that there no more kicking the can down the road. Obamacare is starting so this is their last stand and they know it. If they can't get it changed or defunded now they know their only hope of getting that done will be in 2016 and likely only then if they can win the white house and hold both the house and senate. This is their Alamo.

[DAMNMAN]

Originally Posted by blackcrayon

true enough, with the money already spent via taxes all citizens should already be covered. Where is this money going and how is it being spent should be questioned by everyone.

Too many people don't want to have to pay more than "their share" meanwhile they would most likely pay less in taxes to support a universal healthcare system than what they are paying for healthcare insurance. I have been to the doctors like twice in the last ten years but am i bitter about having to pay taxes that goes to others healthcare all those years? No.

exactly!!!

[baddog]

Originally Posted by kane

. . . .
Here is summery of the republican suggested healthcare bill. It basically looks just like Obamacare without the mandate.
. . .

The "mandate" is the problem.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by baddog

The "mandate" is the problem.

Theirs had a mandate also and Newt praised it saying personal responsibility.

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/31/149767...-mandate-first

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

There is no reason every citizen of the US shouldn't have health care. Especially since we are already paying for it as a nation.

As a nation we already spend more than any other country on health care! We spend more per capita than any other country. We spend more as percentage of our Gross Domestic Product than any other country.

We, the citizens of the United States already pay more for health care than any citizen of any other country and look at the mess we're in! Every one of us should take a long hard look at our elected "leaders" My advise? Reelect NO ONE.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... )_per_capita


.

in statistical comparison, canadian healthcare helps more people for less money

since the us always likes doing bigger and better, we're interested to see what else you boys can come up with

[baddog]

Originally Posted by tony286

Theirs had a mandate also and Newt praised it saying personal responsibility.

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/31/149767...-mandate-first

Well, it it is on the Internet it must be true . . . not sure how that changed the relevance of my comment though.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by baddog

Well, it it is on the Internet it must be true . . . not sure how that changed the relevance of my comment though.

you said the mandate was the problem. what you meant to say 'a mandate from a black man is the problem'

[arock10]

single payerrrrrr

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

in statistical comparison, canadian healthcare helps more people for less money

since the us always likes doing bigger and better, we're interested to see what else you boys can come up with

Why is cost or cost increases even an issue?

BOTH sides should be saying that since we already pay more per person than any other country. Since we are the smartest country, lead the world in technology, etc, bla bla bla ?.. Then coming up with a top level health plan for everyone should be easy. After all WE ARE ALREADY SPENDING MORE THAN EVERY OTHER COUNTRY!!!

I've concluded we're idiots for having idiots represent us and neither party gives a fuck.


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[RandyRandy]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Really:



And this from Canada:




NYC medical prices are 30% to 50% above the national average -- want to share how you paid only $50.00. And if you did -- who do you think pays the rest?

Sure. I live in Morris Park in the Bronx. Morris Park is known for 2 things: having a big Italian-American community (had the Columbus Day Parade yesterday with Chaz Palminteri as Grand Marshal) and having Montefiori Hospital and the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

Every Saturday morning, they have free medical consultations, from 8am - 12 noon, for uninsured Bronx residents. The consultation is free, but you have to pay for tests, etc. in cash at cost. They said I needed an MRI of my knee, and refered me to Third Avenue Radiology and Imaging in the South Bronx. Got the MRI and paid cash, $50 which I'm guessing is their actual cost.

So, if MRIs (depending of course which type) really cost $50 - what is a fair price to charge? $500 (10x the amount) doesn't seem fair to me. Of course this is a business and you need to turn a profit. So is 3x fair? Like the way they mark up a bottle of wine in an upscale NYC restaurant?

To me therein lies the root of the problem. The medical arts should be considered a service first, not a business. But it's been that way for too long in the US and will be hard to change.

Maybe medicine should take a page from sports - instead of paying $500 million for the naming rights of a stadium, like AT&T did in Dallas, they could back research for breast cancer and the treatment would be called the AT&T cure for breast cancer.

For such an "advanced" country the US is the world's laughingstock when it comes to medical coverage (and a lot if other things lately).

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

There is no reason every citizen of the US shouldn't have health care. Especially since we are already paying for it as a nation.

As a nation we already spend more than any other country on health care! We spend more per capita than any other country. We spend more as percentage of our Gross Domestic Product than any other country.

We, the citizens of the United States already pay more for health care than any citizen of any other country and look at the mess we're in! Every one of us should take a long hard look at our elected "leaders" My advise? Reelect NO ONE.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of... )_per_capita


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If that chart is based on total population versus total cost then,
considering the number of Americans that have no health coverage at all; the per capita rate for American is way higher than that chart.

We have millions upon millions who get little or no medical treatment and their zero cost is
averaged in and weighed against countries where everyone is treated.