EddyTheDog

You could wear wet suits - It seems to me we just aint welcome in Cali anymore - Porn needs a new home...

mikesouth

Im curious here where exactly do you think porners would be welcome?

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

Rumbledog

Law makers are enforcing condom laws while content pirates get away.

California is a piece of shit state ran by trash.

EddyTheDog

Parts of Europe have a good rep - In most of Eastern Europe you can film anything if you pay enough...

If you insist on being in the US there are states that seem more porn friendly than Cali - That's your area of expertise though.....

Grapesoda

measure B was pushed forward by the homosexual mafia, only concerns Los Angeles county and has no relationship to OSHA, in fact OSHA does not enforce measure B and disagrees with many of the guidlines

Grapesoda

yes it is, isn't it

Jamie Gardner

The problem with using the production date as a basis for when a movie was made is that porn DVDs frequently have only one production date even though the scenes are often done on different days. I assume the DVDs are using the date when the movie was finished including editing etc.. Of course what the companies are doing is not the original intent of the 2257 law because you can't pin down when each individual scene was shot. In the past, I used to notice more multiple dates listed rather then just one date.

Grapesoda

not to mention web companies that do not produce dvd's

NemesisEnforcer

So true. Speaking with other producers in my area, we wouldn't even welcome "porners" in our area.

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mikesouth

Good call actually NH might be the omly other place in the USA, but I suspect that OHA would follow them there as well what people arent getting is that yes this is Cal-OSHA but the OSHA rules they are enforcing are FEDERAL so they would apply in NH as well.

The turh is that porners are going to have to sit down with OSHA a nd develop industry specific rules that OSHA can live with...thats all there is to it. and YES OSHA will do that.

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

mikesouth

Ya i actually meant in the US....somehow I dont see Vivid moving to the czech republic though ;)

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

DWB

And then the majority of people in the business will go and break that agreement.

Grapesoda

nope... maybe some low level producers..... like you... hard to imagine the big boys breaking the agreement with Cal OSHA

Gringo1

That's F'd up!

mikesouth

kinda reminds you of porn in general and GFY huh?

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

DWB

Mark my words, there will be a "big boy" who breaks whatever agreement is put into place. I would wager money on it.

Porn is full of misfits and idiots, even in the "professional" circles. They are not suddenly going to all snap in line and do the right thing because OSHA says so. How about the big boy who shot Mr. Marcus with painfully obvious syphilis wounds on his cock and balls? How many big boy producers are still shooting without condoms or without a permit?

Yep. Low level producers like myself don't have to legally deal with your silly US OSHA / condom laws and will be shooting permit free bareback scenes while you're waiting for your male performer to get his rubber on and maintain his wood. Enjoy.

The Porn Nerd

I wonder how prudent it would be for the larger porn companies to begin a marketing/PR campaign "re-educating" the public about condoms in porn. Sure, there will always be condom-less porn produced SOMEwhere (not to mention the millions of bareback scenes already shot - what do you do about them, take them down?) but maybe there's room for both.

I don't know but if marketers can convince people to buy plastic bottles of water instead of turning on their own damn faucets I would think marketers could convince the public condoms in porn are "safer, healthier and better for you", just like with Evian. LOL

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mikesouth

it would be a good idea but we had better first fix the problem with std rates porn performers have a 68 TIMES higher infection rate for chlamydia than the general population of the same age range in LA they also have a 38 TIMES higher rate of Gonorrhea....till that is fixed we best not go "educating" anyone

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Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

Grapesoda

I don't shoot BG, not attracted to the penis myself and even if I did, I wonder why you are happy about food being taken from peoples family's? I guess living in a 3rd world shithole has fucked up your sense 'morality and family obligations' but then again your BGF mike south doen't live in a 3rd world shit whole and nothing seesm to make him happier than seeing a man lose the income to feed his family... both you guys are pieces of shit IMHO..

guess what douche bag... if something happened to your biz and you could NOT put food on the table I damn sure would have some empathy for you and your situation... I wouldn't be hopping around doing the snoopy dance like you and shithead girlfriend... fuck you scum bag

pornlaw

We have had several conversations with CalOSHA and the County of LA already about industry specific rules and variances. That is already in the works.

__________________
Michael

www.AdultBizLaw.com

Robbie

Mike where did you get those stats from?

And since the general population never gets tested and only go to the doctor when their piss starts burning...well, I think you can see the reality.

Those stats are total bullshit. You know that. I'm not sure where you're going with this. Some of your posts sound awfully anti-porn. And if I see the govt. using you as their poster boy it's gonna really be a shame.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DWB

Wow, even attacking my girlfriend for no reason whatsoever. Pure class.

No one is doing the snoopy dance, but guess what? The industry did this to itself. This problem didn't miracle itself into existence. It is the reaction to decades of irresponsibility and greed. The bed was made, now everyone finally gets to sleep in it. It is going to suck for a lot of people, but it is what it is. I don't get joy out of knowing this *may* cause people to struggle, but truth is, Porno Dan uses condoms and seems to be doing just fine. Wicked has always been condoms, they do well too. So what's the real problem, permits? Extra money having to be spent on testing? Boo hoo.

If you don't even shoot BG, then why are your panties in a bunch?

Yes, I work in a third world country (a few of them), but it has made me not a pansy ass and I roll with the punches. I produce 200+ scenes a year (I pay for all testing), not in an air con studio, not with the help of agents, not with the help if the FSC, not with the help of professional models, and not with the assistance of a STD database. Do you see me crying anywhere? Nope. I adapted and am growing in an industry that is slowly dying. If you can't keep up, that is tragic, but that is life. Porn isn't easy anymore. Deal with it. But lashing out on me and my girlfriend because I don't have to follow the same rules and regulations you do makes you look like the scum bag here, not me. I simply stated that people will violate the agreement, and pointed out (after you tried insulting me) that I don't have to follow your silly rules. Both 100% true.

Mike's views are his own, but he is usually spot on. Those of you who try to protect the industry don't like the truth, and I can understand why, but living in denial isn't healthy and has led to the very problems that caused this regulation.

I don't feel bad for anyone who can't adapt, but that doesn't mean I'm happy they fail. Times change. Business changes. The herd is thinning. I've covered my ass in the event the entire industry went tits up tomorrow, what about you? But it wont go tits up, it will change and survive in one form or another. That's what business does.

DWB

Manwin had the GOT LATEX campaign. Remember that?

Porn will find a way. It may not be the way everyone wants, but a solution will present itself.

Porno Dan

The OSHA blood born pathogens law of 1992 mandates mandatory condom usage nationwide, until recently the only time OSHA has chosen to do open investigations is when there has been on set exposures to HIV.

OSHA has the right to inspect any work place environment it doesn't matter if it is in La Vegas, Miami or yes, Los Angeles.

Michael and I made the decision to work with OSHA rather than work against to try an come up with a middle ground that would allow us to continue to produce porn in the USA and have us be in compliance with their laws.

I can only speak for myself, but my sales have increased since we went condoms only.

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DWB

Kudos Dan. Working with OSHA instead of fighting them seems like the only logical option at this point.

Jamie Gardner

This reminds me of rape statistics. Decades ago, anti-porn people were using a study that compared rape rates in states to circulations of adult magazines. There was more rape in the states that had higher circulations. The problem with the study is that many rape victims don't report to the authorities that they were raped.

Grapesoda

I'm fine, just really don't care to see the joy and happiness at others misfortunes DWB..... believe me I know more about what's going on with the industry than either you or Mike... you don't see me joyfully digging at the people that are being hurt.... here's one you and Mike might enjoy: I know 3 models right now with no money and no work and now where to stay, from out of town, because of all the issues in the biz... gee isn't that fucking hilarious... what a scream.... hahahahha.... I had made mention of your GF in relation to MS, and where have you seen me crying about this shit... I only point out the guys dumping on the industry that feeds them are scum

Robbie

But Dan, your current company has only been in business a few years.
So your sales should have "increased" a bit since you started at nothing with the new sites and sales.

But how far could they have gone without condom use? Who knows? I don't and neither do you.

I'm glad you're having good success finally in this biz. But to think that using condoms is somehow helpful to your sales is ridiculous.

I read the things you've been saying lately. And all I can say is...I hope the govt. doesn't do to you what it always does: Turn around and bite you.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Creatine

Well dam. That's wrong.

The Porn Nerd

The porn Industry should be better educated about STDs, I agree, and so should the public. But this only makes the case more. Let's all learn together!

This is why my next paysite is called Safe Sex Porn. It will feature condoms-only pics and videos and also have a section to educate the public on the benefits of condom use. I intend to make condom use "hot". LOL

(Wear Your Rubbers dot com is also available.....LOL)

Congrats Dan on your success!

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Porno Dan

Immoral Productions has been in business over 5 years and in that time has become one of the ten largest production companies in the world. We shoot 14 to 16 models a week in our boy/girl live shows, which we re-purpose into three new movie releases a week.

Condom use has enabled me to get numerous broadcast deals that I would have otherwise been unable to.

I had on site visits from LAPD, LA County and OSHA. I choose to work with the "government" because I felt it was my best option, and I still feel that way.

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Robbie

Exactly...5 years. Before that nothing. Not trying to attack you, because I actually enjoyed the swinger am stuff you shot all the years before that when you lived on the East Coast.

And I do think that your broadcast deals are fucking awesome! I'm very proud of you for what you're doing there.

But the condom scenes aren't that hot to the general public. That's why the sites themselves aren't setting the world on fire.

Look man, I'm your friend and don't have any agenda one way or another. And I see that you are trying your best to move ahead in the world and I respect that.

But I don't feel that the govt. has ANY business sticking it's nose in to people having sex. It's just overreach.

And I'm worried that by trying to be clever and "work with them", you may be setting yourself up for something bad. The govt. doesn't want anybody to be "safe" in porn...they want porn GONE.

They aren't friendly to our industry...they are the enemy to our industry.

And I think they will use you and your example to spread what they are trying to do even further. And then when they have used you to gain even more power to pass even more restrictive laws on people, they are going to turn around and burn you.

Just keep it in mind Dan. I can't think of any govt. interaction with the porn industry that has EVER ended in anything but legal and financial woes for the porn person.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

pornlaw

Robbie - it's not the 1980s anymore. I've been in the meetings with Dan & CalOSHA and have also attended the CalOSHA hearings. I've also had numerous meetings with LA County with Dan and with other producers. And I've represented producers busted for shooting without a film permit in the criminal courts. This isn't a witch hunt. This isn't a set up.

For the most part no one wants to enforce these Measurre B. LA County Health really isn't interested in "busting" porn production. Matter of fact they have terminated all inspections under Measure B.

As for CalOSHA there is a vocal minority that would like to see condoms used for every sex act but they have also told us that they are willing to discuss variances to the current regs. They understand porn is here to stay but they also understand that since it's a legitimate industry it falls under their regulatory ability. And therefore they are going to inspect sets and insure that employee safety laws are being adhered to.

It's not the govt that the industry has to be concerned with its AHF. They are the ones pushing the inspections, the new legislation and the fines. LAPD doesn't care about condoms. They just care about film permits. LA County Health stopped all condom inspections. And CalOSHA hasn't hassled a single producer in LA that is trying to comply. And I represent more than half of the producers in LA that have secured permits.

If you want to identify who the enemy of the industry is - it's AHF. They are the ones driving all of this.

__________________
Michael

www.AdultBizLaw.com

Robbie

I never said it's the 1980's. It's definitely 2014 and the govt. is going after the industry in different ways.

The NUMBER ONE rule of porn is to "stay off the radar". I don't give a damn what you think you might know...that rule is always a good one.

And I can't help but think that no good is going to come of it in the end.
Number one...the govt. has no business involved in people having sex.
Number two...yes, the AHF is prodding it on, but the politicians are falling in line because the good old "Liberal" voters in California are going along with it.
Number three...in the end, the govt. will burn your ass. They always do.

But good luck to Dan. I just hate seeing those posts because I believe the govt. and the AHF will be quoting him to "prove" that they are "right" and use it to further their agenda.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

The Porn Nerd

Yeah but Safe Sex Porn is still a great domain name. :D

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pornlaw

Politicians fall in line because they are paid to fall in line. And Hall wants the national spot light that fighting with the industry brings him. No other politician besides Hall wanted this fight. For years AHF tried to find a sponsor for their condom bill and no one would touch it. But the industry was warned by other politicians for years to clean up its act or something like this would happen. The FSC ignored those warnings. This is what happens when you don't police yourself.

As for staying off the radar screen, I agree that's the best course of action. And that's easy to do when you can shoot anywhere on any given day. When you're like Dan and you shoot at the same studio everyday and it's as easy to find that studio (or home) as serving a cam site with a subpoena it's impossible to hide.

And while I agree with you that the govt has no business in our bedrooms... They have always been there and will continue to try to be, whether it's sodomy laws, race mixing, gay marriage or condoms in porn.

But those who actually enforce these laws - they have no interest in doing so. The cops don't want to be condom police and the health depart doesn't see this as a public health issue. You can pass all the laws you want if no one wants to enforce them then they have no teeth. As for CalOSHA, they are a small department with a few staff members and an entire state to worry about. Porn is only one industry.

__________________
Michael

www.AdultBizLaw.com

jimmycooper

Has anyone considered the ramifications of shooting on a large yacht or cruise ship in International Waters or on an Indian Reservation?

__________________

mikesouth

Robbie I agree with ya about staying off the radar and to answer your question there have been 3 different studies in the last 5 years I published the most recent on my site about a year ago...It was done by UCLA Phd Candidates...It was non biased and scientifically sound...

That study is where my numbers came from but the previous two found smilar numbers...unlike those the most recent study also screened for anal and throat infectionss and found a massively high rate of those that were going undiagnosed as well.

Now it may sound anti porn but it really isnt because this is the data tha is going to be used against us whether we acknowledge it or not...AVN and XBiz arent going to make you aware of it but i will because forewarned IS forearmed...If we want to successfully fight this we have to know what is being used against us .

To have any chance of winning we HAVE to address these realities. You and I shoot in a very different environment than porn valley does....my guys dont work in porn at all they only shoot for me and I know and have used them for years...result no stds on one of my sets ever in over 20 yrs in this biz (Knocking on wood) my technique clearly wouldnt work for porn valley where you have guys working with different girls (and other guy even) every day...

If The people in LA want to win the day they have to come up with a workable solution and I want them to but if they dont...in the long run it thins the herd and helps you and I

__________________
Mike South

It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

ezgirl

I too have often wondered about the sources of your stats, but this does not answer the question about the source of your stats. May we know where we can see these stats, especially since you warn us we need to be prepared with true information. Thanks, much appreciated, we would all like to be informed citizens.

__________________
E-mail: ezgirlproducer at yahoo dot com

Robbie

As I said in my earlier post about that:
The study is obviously using health statistics from a given area (I assume L.A.)

And since performers in L.A. are testing every 2 weeks...then yeah, every little case of chlamydia (which according to everything I read about it is VERY common among all people) is going to show up as a statistic against adult performers.
Meanwhile....in the general public, people do NOT get tested and don't even think about it until their piss starts burning.

So what I'm saying is: those statistics are not taking into account that the general public has millions of people running around with chlamydia that don't even KNOW it (many people show no symptoms at all).
Meanwhile the porn people are getting tested and it's getting reported constantly.

And another thing...since when did anybody really give a shit about chlamydia anyway?

Let's all be truthful here...the ONLY disease that scares the shit out of everybody and the ONLY reason that testing was even started a few years ago is HIV.

If any of us had a "problem" and it came back as "only" chlamydia...that person would thinking: "Thank God!", take some antibiotics and be fine a few days later.

What's next for the govt? Are they gonna come after all the guys and girls who caught chlamydia this last weekend when they hooked up with somebody at a nightclub for a quickie????

Mike, I just don't want them to be taking your words and turning it around into some kind of anti-porn story by saying that even YOU are on "their side" (Meaning the AHF).

And you know that's what they will do. If I were in their PR dept. and read you saying what you said in this thread, I would be sending out mass emails with your words quoted and I'd have you quoted on all of our flyers and in court too.

THAT would really suck.

I'm like you, in that I could give a shit about the L.A. scene. They are too caught up in their own myth to realize that the majority of adult scenes are no longer shot there or by the companies based out of there.

In some ways that perception in a "bubble" works to my advantage. Everybody watches them and THEY are on the "radar".

Hell, when I first moved out west I thought about moving to porn valley. I didn't because I'm scared of earthquakes lol
Now I"m VERY glad I'm not out there.

And if I were those companies...I would seriously consider moving out of California and to another state and keep my company much lower to the ground.

It seemed great out there AT FIRST.

But by being "legitimate" and part of the community in L.A. and "working with" the govt., what has it gotten them in the end?

Fucked.

They have to pay for permits just to have a guy with a camera shoot 2 people fucking at somebodies house? Give me break.

And NOW? All this condom bullshit and regulations?

I would have moved my company a long time ago.

As you (and everybody in this business that is NOT in L.A.) know...there is "talent" in every city. Always plenty of hot girls and a few guys with big dicks who can get it up.

Porn "talent" isn't all in LA

There are plenty of strip clubs all over the world just full of prospective new talent who just happen to not live in L.A.

So that wouldn't be a problem.

I shot the first 2 years of our site in South Carolina for fuck's sake.

I shot all the content for Pure Candy Images content company in North and South Carolina and Georgia.

If I had made the mistake of moving to L.A. in 2008 instead of where I am now...I would have already packed my bags and moved back OUT of California.

This business is tough enough with piracy eating it alive. Who needs all that other expense and headaches and loss of personal freedom? I don't.

If the day ever comes when they make what's happening in California nationwide, I'll just move down to Costa Rica or the Bahamas or some other little paradise. I'll keep myself on the downlow and continue on with my business.

If not, then I'll just exit what's left of this "industry".

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com