Rochard

I really think McCain / Palin was nothing more than throw away. They knew no matter what that they would loose - the economy was crashing down hard and people were loosing their jobs and then their houses - and at the same time they knew they could blame the next four years on the Democrat party.

Romney was a good choice really, for the most part. His time in Massachusetts seems to have been without drama, and then of course there is Romneycare. My problem with Romney was that his business experience was exactly what the banks were doing and exactly what we didn't need - Romney borrowed large sums of money from other people, bought companies with the intention of turning them around, and then charged massive consulting fees to "manage" the companies they bought. If the company did well or failed on a massive scale was irrelevant because Romney made money either way. This is exactly what the banks had done - They would hand out a mortgage to anyone because the banks made money even if the buyer defaulted.

The problem now is the Republican party took a huge gamble and lost. They thought that four - eight years of a Democratic president would be a struggle without knowing the only one thing needed to fix this was time.... Didn't matter who was in office; We needed 4-8 years to turn this around and another 4-8 years to make progress. Don't tell me things aren't better - They are. Unemployment is down, stock market is up, GDP is up, Economy is up, new construction is up, house values are up, etc, etc, etc.

In the mean time all the Republican has is complaining about healthcare (Romenycare at the Federal level, badly needed, and seems to be working), the IRS thing (which is really nothing more than the IRS giving scrutiny to people who abuse tax laws), and then Benghazi which is nothing more than the US Government denying the CIA was operating in another country, standard practice since the CIA was created in the late 1940s / early 1950s.

The Republican party needs to stop complaining and start doing their jobs - and they better find someone they can put forward for the next election. The country will not accept another Bush in the White House, and the fat cat from NJ is just ridiculous.

If not we'll be stuck with Hillary. I am all for a woman in the Oval Office, but not Hillary.

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GregE

I can't say that I'm exactly thrilled with Hillary either. But I'd take her in a heartbeat over any person/thing that the Republicans are likely to nominate.

Elizabeth Warren would be my first choice by far, but I'm also realistic enough to know that she wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning the general election.

Nonetheless, it sure would be fun to watch the same fat cats who trashed the economy in '08 collectively shit their pants and run to the nearest airport in the event that Warren did win however.

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DTK

Exactly. That's the question. Fuck, I hate defending Obama & in this case H Clinton (I have no use for either of them), but I love actual facts. The House GOP's own report said there's virtually nothing to this, but that creep Issa just won't move on to another fake scandal.

Of course, he's tried with the whole IRS thing, but wouldn't ya know, it turns out that so-called progressive groups were targeted more than conservative/tea party groups.

And of course, right-wingers don't know these things because the mouthpieces they listen to won't tell them about these things.

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DTK

Another center-right corporatist with a neocon foreign policy - just like the last 5 presidents (including the current one) - yeah, I'll pass too.

The only Dem or Rep I'd even consider voting for is Elizabeth Warren, but that point is moot because the plutocrats who now control our electoral process would never give her the money needed to be elected.

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Matt 26z

Stevens was in Libya funneling arms to Syrian rebels. Nobody will come out and say that, but it's just a matter of putting one and one together.

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-sy...2012-10#!H6Xih

Libya sent a supply of their own arms to Syria and the US was supplying Libya. So most likely instead of passing US arms directly to Syria they were given Libyan arms and the US then reimbursed Libya. Stevens was likely the guy on the ground coordinating it.

Vendzilla

Here are two of your quotes

Apples

Oranges

They never cut funding, they cut proposed funding. Try and see the difference

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

crockett

Where has anyone proven he lied or covered anything up? Every investigation has shown there is no cover up but you are ok with yet another wasting millions of dollars for nothing. All because it's ok to witch hunt if you don't like the guy getting hunted.

Robbie do you realize 14 million has already been wasted on Benghazi investigations by the Republicans? Now they are doing another?

crockett

Romney was not a bad choice until he tried to conform to the extreme right (aka tea party) to get their votes. He then distanced himself from everything that possible could have won him swing votes. He couldn't run far enough away from Romney Care something he should of been embracing and and generally became far too wishy washy when trying to distance him self from things the tea party wouldn't like..

This is why the Republican party is doomed they have split too far apart.. All the crazies are running the loony bin and anyone that appeals to them doesn't appeal to the more sensible and certainly doesn't appeal to anyone on the left or swing voters.

Anyone that appears to be middle of the road or even close is a evil commie socialist. I mean hell the tea party in NV, Az or where ever he's from, censured John McCain for being too liberal.. That should tell yea something..

tony286

well one reason is you get fox with basic cable and you dont get msnbc. Secondly fox reported the news around the clock and no prisons docs all weekend.

tony286

There are enough real things that they could attack this president on but they arent as meaty or dramatic as the lies that their audience loves. Also this is the shit to get low information voters to vote against their own interests.
Also the whole bush was the past this is now is fine but it shows a lack of principles when something was no big deal back then but a big problem now. You are either one way or you are not.

crockett

So they did what McCain and other Republicans wanted them to do and that was arm the Syrian Rebels? This is the so called scandal? Do we need a Ollie North to come fall on a sword to make the Republicans happy?

crockett

I'm really amazed that the only thing these guys can grasp to in order to defend Fox is it's ratings.. It's no wonder this country is so fucked, when people worry more about their entertainment value of the news they watch over the accuracy of what it reports.

If I want to watch entertainment news I'll watch the Daily Show..

Vendzilla

It's the people that try to lessen the blame on the current because of the deeds of the past.

Doesn't make it right. The past can't do anything about it, the current can.

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

deltav

This is the key really. They've catered to an under-informed but highly passionate fringe of the party, who is now able to drive GOP (and American Right in general) policy by simply threatening in the primaries.

Thing is, that fringe's approach is nihilistic - they don't believe in compromise and they're completely naive about how governing works, so instead of a give-and-take and actually getting shit done and maybe getting their particular REAL agendas passed, they've collapsed into temper tantrums and the party of No.

It's telling that Barry Goldwater, the uber-conservative of generations past, would not be welcome in today's GOP. He'd at best be a fringe guy like Huntsman and more likely have to go the independent route. They've basically lost their minds. And like I said, that's a shame because conservatives can contribute a lot of great ideas to national policy, but in their current form they're doing nothing of the sort. Eventually a bloc of relatively sane conservatives are going to say enough-is-enough and there will be a schism, the only reason it hasn't happened yet is that it would basically hand the country to the Dems for the next several election cycles. Even I don't think that would be ideal, though part of me says let it happen because the Dems are the only ones remotely trying to get anything done and bring ideas to the table.

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Robbie

Both the Dems and Repubs are just really, really bad. Just reading people on here defending the Pres. for openly and knowingly lying his ass off is just crazy.

I don't know what to tell you guys. Your all just rooting for your "team" in my eyes.

If you are a Democrat, apparently Pres. Obama can just do whatever he wants to: spying, killing, cracking down with the drug war, lying, manipulating...it's just the same old song and dance...but Democrats don't care.

He's a DEMOCRAT! YAY! And the media keeps telling us that they are the "good guys"

The Democrats "care" about us and want to save the planet.

And you know what...I do believe that every one of you who votes Democrat party down the ticket really ARE the good guys who care and want to save the planet.

But the politicians running around representing the Democrats?

No fucking way. They are the exact same as the Republicans.

And to those of you who keep saying: "Well, yeah...they are both bad. But the Democrats are better."

No they're not.

And you shouldn't have to accept that kind of choice between "Lesser of 2 evils".

Come on guys! Stop voting for Dems and Repubs.

Let's show some fucking balls and vote for other choices. There are tons of other candidates running who are not affiliated with the "2 party system".

At least take a look at what those people have to say.

If you are a die-hard liberal who believes that rich people suck and need to give most of their money to the govt. in taxes...the Democrats are NOT for you.

If you are (like me) a socially liberal, anti-war, anti-drug war, freedom from oppressive govt. person (you know, like the Hippies and TRUE liberals from the 1960's) ...the Democrats are NOT for you.

If you are a small govt., less taxes kind of person...the Republicans are NOT for you.

If you are a conservative Christian nutjob...I got bad news, the Republicans are STILL not for you.

Neither of these parties EVER delivers what they promise.

They come in, spend their entire lives as career bureaucrats. They get rich. We get fucked.

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GregE

Broadcasting news around the clock is the one (and only) thing that Fox does right.

CNN jumped the shark by becoming the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 Channel all day every day and TV Chicago at night.

As for those dumb ass prison docs on MSNBC.. wtf is with that?? Put that shit on The History Channel which has gone to shit anyway </rant>

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Robbie

I liked "Married With Children" back in the day too.

"Family Guy" is also on Fox.

It's always been kind of funny to listen to some of the more moralistic guys on FNC like Hannity rail against immorality when the show on Fox Network were always pretty racy for broadcast television.

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MaDalton

since Fox News is not news but entertainment (fictional), i'd just say they are pretty good at that in general

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Robbie

Yep, I agree.

Rush Limbaugh paved the way. People talk shit about the guy...but if you ever actually tuned in (which I do for shits and giggles sometimes on my way to the gym)...he's funny as hell and a super entertainer.

I think FNC saw that and modeled their "opinion shows" like O'Reilly and Hannity after that.

Of course people don't ever talk about FNC's other shows..John Stossel is a strict pro-drug, pro-freedom Libertarian. And his show is damned entertaining.

Geraldo Rivera is also a very entertaining guy who isn't conservative and doesn't give a damn about morality and "Jesus" and all that stupid shit. His show is pretty informative and fun.

I don't watch much afternoon national news anymore...but Shepard Smith has always been solid on FNC doing the news.

The bashing of FNC is really based on their two biggest stars: Hannity and O'Reilly (and yeah, the moronic "Fox And Friends" in the morning).

But Hannity and O'Reilly aren't delivering the news. They are entertainers having arguments for ratings.
And yeah, it can be fun to watch.

They learned how to get the ratings by bringing in the opposition and fighting it out with them on t.v. (O'Reilly vs. Barney Frank or Phil Donahue is always entertaining).

That's the mistake MSNBC makes. Their "talk shows" like Ed Shulz, Rachel Maddow, etc. NEVER have any opposing veiwpoints. It's always like-minded people all agreeing and smirking.

Hell, one episode of Bill Maher's show had Rachel Maddow and also a Republican Congressman on the panel. He told her that her news reporting was liberal biased.
She pitched a fucking fit over that! Claimed she was NEVER biased! And of course Bill Maher's crowd cheered. I lol'ed and almost spit my drink out of my mouth.

Rachel Maddow SHOULD have a very highly rated show. But she doesn't understand Show Biz 101.
Nobody is interested in her and a bunch of her friends smirking and agreeing.

Now if she just wants to read the news like a real reporter...cool. But if you're gonna have an "opinion" show...you better make it have something to keep my interest.

Because her show is just like O'Reilly's...an entertainment show...only he kicks her ass.

She needs to get some opposing STRONG people on her show and let the debate really occur. Could you imagine her having guys like Newt Gingrich or Ted Cruz on her show?

I would watch that!
I won't watch her talking to some smirking agreeing liberal wonks. It's boring.

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SongRider

Whats funny is that people STILL think party lines matter... It don't matter if its a Spacely's Sprocket or a Cogswell Cog... They BOTH just keep the corporate funded government machine running.....

Robbie

Not all of us think "party lines", but as you can see by the posts in this thread...there are still plenty that do.

Maybe the next generation of people will be smarter than the ones now.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

GregE

Fox has NFL Football too.

But.. I think you know what I was referring too

Having said that, most of the women on Fox News are admittedly easy on the eyes.

As for Hannity, unlike Beck and Limbaugh who laugh all the way to the bank, I think Sean might really be as stupid as he comes off on the air. For his sake I certainly hope not.

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Robbie

He's hard to read...but he might just be that good of an actor.

I've listened to his radio show before while driving. And for a guy who acts all "Jesus-Freak", he certainly curses a good bit and talks about drinking and partying, etc on-air.

I think the "Hannity" character might be close to what he believes in a lot of ways...but I think he might be a lot more "fun" in real life.

I will say this...listening to his show on the radio, he has a black woman named "Velma" who I think lives here in Vegas. She is VERY, VERY liberal. And very pro-Obama.
She calls in and they argue like cats and dogs. And then he sends her kids (whom he calls his "nephews") gifts for Christmas, he flew her out to New York., etc.

He's also doing a thing every week now on the radio where he brings in the owners of companies who are looking for employees for high paying jobs. He's had guys on there with literally hundreds of job openings for really good money.
That's kind of cool.

But when he gets going about "jesus" and acting stupid...it's impossible to listen to him at that point for me. But he knows his audience I guess.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

GregE

Both parties are in every meaningful sense of the word owned by the big corporations and Wall Street. That's hardly a secret anymore.

Where they differ for the most part is on the so called social issues that the corporate interests couldn't care less about anyway. Additionally, the Democrats tend to be a tad more inclined to toss a few crumbs to the peasants.

Having said this, it still feels damn good when I vote against every fucking foaming-at-the mouth, bible thumping, blame-the-jobless-for-being-jobless asshole that I get an opportunity to vote against.

Then again voting nowadays is kinda like jerking off, isn't it?

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Robbie

The thing I question about it though is...WHAT have the Dems really accomplished lately in that dept?

The Pres. waltzed into office and IMMEDIATELY said that legalizing pot is the "wrong" thing to do. lol

And only after he "evolved" did he finally say that gays should be able to get married (but he hasn't actually DONE anything about it).

Giving lip service to stuff is fine. But when it comes to ACTION...neither party does what they promise on social issues.

The COURTS do.

Hell, the ONLY reason that any of the states are legalizing pot is just so THEY can make money by taxing it. They didn't do it because people should be free...

The only time that politicians on either side do something that has to do with a "social" issue is when they are dragged kicking and screaming into it, OR if it means the govt. can tax something and get bigger.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

crockett

That's because they are in the business of entertaining and are good at it. What most people don't seem to get, is guys like Hannity, Bill O'reilly and so on are fictional characters made for TV just like John Stewart or Steven Colbert. There is no Santa clause or Easter bunny or a Bill O'Reilly., it's all just entertainment.. Hell even I kinda like Bill O'Reilly but I also understand he's playing a part on a TV show that is scripted for a certain audience.

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Robbie

EXACTLY crockett! I'm glad you can see that. It's all showbiz.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

DTK

NOWHERE, that's where. Here's the House Armed Services Committee's report. It concludes that there was no way for the U.S. military to have responded in time to the attack in Benghazi. There was no fucking "stand down" order.

There's nothing here. It's just a shitty thing that happened.
The mouthpieces who won't let it go are lying to you. On purpose. Move the fuck on.

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GregE

This is why I find it so amusing when the tea party types insist on labeling Obama as a tree hugging socialist. The man is a right leaning centrist who's positions are clearly to the right of both Clintons and those of most of his Democratic constituents.

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2MuchMark

I would take this one step further, and say that all republicans do is take each others advice on their shitty outdated ideology on ways to to try to repackage and resell it.

The truth is, the US has moved on from slave days, moved on from the 50's, and just plain moved on. Black people are people. Women are people. Gays are people. Everyone is just as smart as everyone else, just as hard working, can contribute just as much to society, and deserve equal pay, equal recognition, and equal respect. Republicans spend millions of dollars trying to sell their old fart ideas, but very few old farts still buy them. It's time they realized how stupid they are before they become nothing more than a side note in history.

Right Vendy?

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2MuchMark

Fox IS number one......in the 60 to 80 demographic. Old fool republicans watch old fool news that spoon-feeds the same shit they heard when ol' Ronnie was making those scary socialized medicare records.



Ever hear this shit? Has you have - its the same rhetoric you hear on Fox every single day.

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DTK

100% True. Good luck convincing low-info right-wingers & Obamabots of this.

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Rochard

And?

Do we now instantly confess to every intelligence operation we have?

So at the end of the day the only problem is the White House, State Department, the US miliary, and the CIA is trying to conceal a... Covert intelligence operation involving the CIA? We should investigate this further. In fact....

We should find out who in Congress approved this convert action.

Then.... We shouldn't allow the CIA to operate in other countries. (You don't think the CIA isn't funneling arms, ammo, and money into Ukraine RIGHT NOW?)

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Robbie

Nice that you seem to hate older people.

But unfortunately for your ignorant statement...Fox is not only number one in that demographic but ALSO the 25 to 54 year old demographic.

Average number of viewers in primetime:

FNC: 1.774 million viewers / 297,000 adults 25-54

MSNBC: 645,000 viewers / 203,000 adults 25-54

So just like the bureaucrats and politicians here in the U.S., you have mastered the art of not telling the WHOLE story.

FNC beats MSNBC in EVERY demographic. It's simply more entertaining...if you're in the mood for that kind of "entertainment".

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

bronco67

He was thinking "oh shit, daddy won't be able to bail me out of this mess."

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bronco67

They do know what they're doing, and they're doing it better than anyone else. Keeping old people and rednecks misinformed.

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DTK

Way to twist a guy's words there, Robbie. Not to mention saying that he seems to HATE older people. Inflammatory, much? Maybe you want to dial it back a hair.

The fact is, the median age of a Fox viewer is 68, with a 1.1% black viewership. The stereotype of Fox as a channel for old white conservatives is backed up by the data.

Oh, and they've been losing the younger demographic for years.

"TVNewser reported on the big drop in young people tuning into Fox News, ?Compared to 2012, Fox News was down -5% in total viewers and -19% in the A25-54 demographic in total day. In primetime, the network was down -14% in total viewers and -30% in the demo, the steepest decline among younger viewers of all the cable news networks.?

2012 was a presidential election year, so all three cable news networks lost viewers in 2013. The difference is that at Fox News this problem has been going on for years. The move of Megyn Kelly to 9 PM was supposed to attract young viewers, but Kelly suffered a drop 23% in young viewership compared to Sean Hannity?s 2012 ratings. Bill O?Reilly is down 23% with younger viewers, and Hannity is down 16%."

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bronco67

It's always funny to watch your "neutral" viewpoint in action.

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DTK

Mainstream media is a lie factory in general, but Fox is on it's own level. They've actually gone to court to defend their right to lie to their viewers, and won. No joke.

Once the Fairness Doctrine was gutted, it was game on for amoral propagandists to do their thing.

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bronco67

This is why I don't understand how Fox and MSNBC can really be compared, other than the fact that they're polar opposites in politics. MSNBC has some really smart people, and I'm not saying that because I agree with them. Compared to the brain trust that converses on Fox, they just sound like more intelligent people. I'm surprised those idiots on Fox and Friends can put their own pants on in the morning. Alex Wagner's left eyeball is smarter than all three of them combined.

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Robbie

Just showing the facts over what he posted which was totally NOT telling the whole story.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

The FACTS are still the FACTS. More young people still watch Fox News than MSNBC. And a lot of older and wiser people watch it too.

It simply beats MSNBC in EVERY demographic.

If you don't think that the head of MSNBC would LOVE to have those older (and richer) viewers so that they could charge more money for advertisements, then you clearly haven't thought it through.

Look...I think that ALL of these channels are shitty for actual "news". But FNC is simply BETTER at what they do than MSNBC.

It's funny to read some of this...you guys are not only making excuses for the political parties you love, but now you're making every excuse under the sun for MSNBC sucking.

Look, I get it...if you are a person who just loves Democrats....then MSNBC is the holy grail.
Problem is...nobody is watching it. And from reading all the quotes and vid clips that Democrat Party loyalists keep posting here...it seems that they too are watching Fox News a lot, or at least bringing it up in every conversation ad nauseum.

The conversations seem to go like this:

Me: "Pres. Obama isn't doing what he promised and in many ways has seemed worse to me than Bush."
Obamapologist: "He isn't doing anything that Bush didn't do too! And quit listening to Fox News!:"

AND:

Me: "Whether you like FNC or not, they are constantly kicking everyone else's ass in the ratings in EVERY age group"
MSNBC Lovers: "Fox News viewers are all old and stupid rednecks! We 'liberal' elite are far too clever and smart! Fox News lies! And oh yeah...one more thing...GEORGE BUSH and THE KOCH BROTHERS!!!"

It's really lame guys. Especially the trying to twist reality to fit some kind of elitist smarmy vision of things.

Let's keep it in reality and not fantasy.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

DTK

Says the guy who wrote "I'm pointing out the facts crockett. He LIED. He covered up." when multiple investigations didn't find shit AND the GOP controlled Armed Services Committee said the opposite.

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sperbonzo

STANDING OVATION!!!


BEST POST OF THE THREAD!!





(unfortunately, no one will pay attention to this post, because they are still so taken in by rooting for their "side". The two parties have got them so wrapped up in making sure to back their "teams" that they can't see the truth staring them in the face......

It's a damn shame. )


.

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Robbie

Dude...what "investigation" do you need?

I WATCHED the Pres. go on the David Letterman show and claim it was caused by a "video" from a "shady guy".

Youtube it for yourself. He is the President. His own CIA team in Libya had told them it was NOT a protest over a video.

He knew that. He LIED right on television and had all of his staff people on every Sunday morning news show telling the same lie.

That was just flat out political because he didn't want his foreign policy to look bad (at the time he was running neck and neck with Romney).

Goddamn...what does the govt. have to do to some of you people to get you a bit upset?

It was a coverup, plain and simple. And a dumb one at that. He should have just told the truth. His campaign manager made a very bad call on that one.

And now...the Republicans are going to use it for their political advantage against Hillary Clinton.

That is a FACT.

I'm not cheerleading it. I'm just saying what is going to happen. You guys are in some kind of fantasy land if you don't think that's what the Republicans will do.

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2MuchMark

How could he have been a good choice? You never knew where you stood with him because he always contradicted himself.



Flip Floppin' Romney.

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Robbie

It's politics Mark.

The guy went "far right" in order to win the Republican nomination.
Then he's screwed in the general.

That's the same fate that happened to McCain. Both guys were "moderates" all their careers.

Then they get up and straight-faced lied and pretended to be far-right to win the primary.

And then, of course...it ruins the whole reason that people liked them in the beginning.

The Democrats have finally figured that out. And it's been very successful for them the last 2 Pres. campaigns.

I don't see how the Republicans are going to be able to field any candidate that won't have the same thing happen to them too. So if Pres. Obama can just get through to the end of his term without completely fucking up...it should be easy for Hillary to beat the Republican no matter who they find.

As long as the primary forces them to go full-retard on themselves, they are doomed.

As far as Romney goes...he would have definitely been a better Pres. from an economic standpoint in my opinion. His ideas to stimulate the economy were pretty damn good.
But he obviously didn't have the charm of Pres. Obama. And the Pres. is probably one of the best campaigners in modern times.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

MK Ultra

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Vendzilla

Kind of a prejudice thing to say, are rednecks and old people beneath you? Are you a better class of people than old people and rednecks. If I didn't know any better, I would think you are prejudice?

__________________
Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

crockett

So how is Fox News stats on accurate reporting? We all get they are awesome entertainment TV, but how about their accuracy? I heard it was pretty bad..