just a punk

What? )) Ukrainian country? For 70 years? The peaceful Nazi Galichina Waffen SS brigades and UPA? Are you an idiot?

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C4W

Mabey they where tired of being skull fucked by the Russians. Did they not see the Germans as liberators and then the Nazis skull fucked them to?

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aka123

No, it was not peaceful as it was under the terror of Moscow.

aka123

I don't think that they saw Germans as liberators. More like they just hoped that their asses wouldn't hurt so much, no matter who is fucking them.

MaDalton

let's be honest - russians, poles, ukrainians etc. were not any more or less anti-semitic than regular germans - just that no one wants to admit that.

just recently the poles went crazy when a documentary pointed out that polish jews got ratted out or even killed by polish resistance - still it's a fact

so as long as it went mainly against jews, many eastern europeans played along

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Horatio Caine

Yes my thick skulled Ivan. Kaliningrad as hypothetical breakaway region and how would have Vlad handle situation the compared to E. Ukraine. Im sure it would have been with milk and cookies because just like Russian Nazi's your cluster bombs are more humane than those of Ukraine. We all know that. What were you saying about Indians my slightly intoxicated vodka comrade?

Horatio Caine

Since when Galichina SS became representation of entire country of Ukraine? You must be an idiot Ivan? Far greater number of Ukrainians who fought alongside your grandfathers.

rvn

Don't you think that GFY is not a right place for Russian propaganda?

Also, if you're talking about Nazi Galichina Waffen SS brigades, why did you forget to mention that Russia had 20 times more collaborators fighting on the side of Third Reich. Over 1,000,000 versus 55,000 from Ukraine. Only ROA (Russian Liberation Army) had around 800,000 and totally there were 23 Russian divisions (and 2 from Ukraine).

UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) was an opposing force to both Third Reich and Communists.

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klinton

hahahah... I'm waiting for story then about "polish concentration camps" and that they were actually builded by Poles/ Ukrainians/ Russians and managed by them

aka123

In the Schindler's list when the jews get "liberated" by the single horseman (Russian), they ask where to go, and the soldier replies something like: "Don't go to the east, you are not liked in there, don't go to the west, you are not liked in there." And then they probably go north or south. Well, just a movie, but it brings up the issue mentioned.

stoka

fixed it for you

Kolargol

It's probably worth to mention that in Poland, Russia or Ukraine occupied by the Germans there was death penalty for helping Jews.
It was the Germans who elected anti-semitic party not Poles, Russians or Ukrainians.

Kolargol

You probably shouldn't bring SS troops in this discussion:

29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS RONA (1st Russian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Russian Liberation Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

just a punk

They where tired of being skull fucked by Turks and Poles in 1654 and asked for a protection of Russian Tsar. They decided to be a part of Russia by their own will. Learn history, man.

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C4W

It dosent change that 300 years later it was not really protektion.

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just a punk

Not for Nazi Galichina Ukrainian propaganda for sure.

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just a punk

Johny boy, you are more stupid than I thought. Course it was not a representation of whole Ukraine. It was a representation of whole Western Ukraine. The territory which Stalin took from Poles, Romans, Hungarians and then joined to the Soviet Ukrainian Republic. So now there is a war between Eastern Ukraine (former Russian territories) and Western one (former Polish, Romanian, Hungarian territories). Why you guys are so dumb in geography?

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just a punk

I shouldn't. Because I MUST. These were always considered as the main enemies of my country. They were crushed and Vlasov was publicly hanged. Nobody praises those bastards in Russia. Nobody does pro-Vlasov marches here and nobody occupies Russian parliament to demand any privileges for veterans of Vlassov's gang (I have serious doubts that even one of them has survived). Do you see a difference with the modern Ukraine, you stupid sick fuck?

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Kolargol

Calm down and try without insults next time.

I didn't say Vlasov army is praised in Russia. I say both Russia and Ukraine had their armies supporting Hitler. That's all.
I also see that Stalin who murdered millions of Russians, Ukrainians and others is still praised in Russia.

just a punk

There were forces that supported him everywhere (in every single country including yours). But even Germans are ashamed of their history. While only Ukrainian are openly praising their Nazi "heroes". Only there you can see this:





this:



and that:



Don't play stupid please.

He is not. At least officially. Your lovely Putin has personally forbade the previous major of Moscow to use replicas of WWII time banners with a face of Stalin in a Victory Day.

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aka123

Swedish nazies praised in Ukraine?

just a punk

14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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aka123

Well, I think that they praise Soviet things also, at least Russia does. Somewhat equal.

It has been said that Russia has never made "peace" with it's past, as it was on the winning side. Maybe these like to praise nazi criminals instead of Soviet criminals.

MaDalton

i would never claim that - but there were collaborators who worked at concentration camps - but that's not what I meant..

i guess when you are polish resistance, you don't worry too much anymore for what reason the germans want to kill you

did anyone of you see "Unsere Väter, unsere Mütter" and followed the discussion afterwards?

and it's actually the same here in CZ when you mention how they killed germans after 1945 - some people still freak out over that and either deny it ever happened or call it justified

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aka123

I saw it from TV, but didn't notice any discussion (at least in here).

Adam Wade

Sure. Putin gives money to Ramzan Kadyrov (Chechen leader) and as he pays the Chechens are his people. As soon as he finishes doing this they'll be his worst enemies. Just believe me.

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klinton

there were even Jewish collaborators in concentration camps...and there were Polish and Ukrainian collaborators too

also some people in Poland were hiding Jews in their houses and not all of them were doing this for Jewish gold teeth ;-) also many people were helping Jews / or the other people - were selling them for money to Nazis

and also , after second world war there were few anti semitism clashes in Poland, and in 68' many people with Jewish origins were forced to exile Poland...

but it all doesnt mean that modern Israel is chosen nation and has the right to do what they want with Palestinians, because they are dangerously similiar in their actions to Nazis during 2nd world war....

MaDalton

well, that's a completely different topic

my main intent was to point out that mislead people are everywhere, atrocities happen(ed) everywhere and no one is completely free of guilt - not back then, not now.

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femdomdestiny

Russian liberation army was a try to resist communist and only partner in that were Germans. Every country in war had collaborators. It is just important how big is population supporting that idea. They were recruited from German occupied territories of Russia.


Russian volunteers who enlisted into the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer) wore the patch of the Russian Liberation Army, an army which did not yet exist but was presented as a reality by Nazi propaganda. These volunteers (called Hiwi, an acronym for Hilfswilliger, roughly "volunteers") were not under any Russian command or control; they were exclusively under German command carrying out various noncombat duties. Soon, several German commanders began forming small armed units out of them, primarily used in combating activities of the Soviet partisans.

Adolf Hitler allowed the idea of the Russian Liberation Army to circulate in propaganda literature so long as no real formations of the sort were permitted. As a result, some Red Army soldiers surrendered or defected in hopes of joining an army that did not yet exist. Many Soviet prisoners of war volunteered to serve under the German command just in order to get out from Nazi POW camps which were notorious for starving Soviet prisoners to death.


The ROA was organized by former Red Army general Andrey Vlasov, who tried to unite anti-communist Russians opposed to the communist regime in the Soviet Union. The volunteers were mostly Soviet prisoners of war but also included White Russian émigrés (some of whom were veterans of the anticommunist White Army during the Russian Civil War).

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WDF

There is the real truth in all the they did this and they did that.

You all expect way too much from CyberSEO and his band of Mislead Putin Propagandists.
They only know what they are told and usually only post what they are told to post.

CyberSEO has already admitted to a relationship with the Russian Military to Rochard in a post here.

Do you expect to admit certain truths that will make his propaganda completely invalid.

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klinton

and I can agree with that POV

Kolargol

Not every country had volunteer Werhmacht or SS divisions - unlike most European countries, including yours, Poland didn't.

It's a bit complicated about support of Stalin in Russia and many post soviet republics, he might not be officially praised but not totally condemned as he should be (and as Germans did with Hitler).

Also, Stalin remains quite popular in polls.

I agree with the rest of your post.