America vs Norway

[2MuchMark]

Norwegians love Tesla more than Americans
Norwegians love Tesla even more than Americans - Dec. 23, 2014

[mineistaken]

how much does it cost in Norway in comparison to petrol/diesel competitors? Article makes it sound as if it may cost even lower, lol, because of those huge taxes "that may increase auto price twice" ..
Would be interesting to see price comparison

[fappingJack]

Electric cars is the best.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

how much does it cost in Norway in comparison to petrol/diesel competitors? Article makes it sound as if it may cost even lower, lol, because of those huge taxes "that may increase auto price twice" ..
Would be interesting to see price comparison

No idea... good question though.

[lezinterracial]

Doesn't Norway have a shit ton of geothermal energy? That is why the Aluminum plants and data centers are there right? Big geysers and such.

Or am I thinking of Iceland?

[stoka]

gem replies lol

[DamageX]

Mark, you do realize that electric cars may actually end up polluting MORE than say a clean diesel car, right? I'll let you wrap your head around that for a bit. :winkwink

Originally Posted by lezinterracial

Doesn't Norway have a shit ton of geothermal energy? That is why the Aluminum plants and data centers are there right? Big geysers and such.

Or am I thinking of Iceland?

Iceland. Norway has a lot of hydro energy and other types like that.

[XXXBizXXX]

Here's Why The Tesla Model S Is The #1 Selling Car In Norway

[EngineCash]

They say that the Norway is the best place to live in...

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by EngineCash

They say that the Norway is the best place to live in...

You haven't watched Hellfjord, have you?

[aka123]

Originally Posted by lezinterracial

Doesn't Norway have a shit ton of geothermal energy? That is why the Aluminum plants and data centers are there right? Big geysers and such.

Or am I thinking of Iceland?

There are not datacenters because of the geothermal energy, quite opposite; because of cool climate. Norway hasn't geysers anyways, well.. based on googling there is two way up north at the north pole or something like that, but not at the main land.

[lezinterracial]

Originally Posted by aka123

There are not datacenters because of the geothermal energy, quite opposite; because of cool climate. Norway hasn't geysers anyways, well.. based on googling there is two way up north at the north pole or something like that, but not at the main land.

Yea, DamageX is right. I was thinking of Iceland.

[hadden]

Originally Posted by aka123

There are not datacenters because of the geothermal energy, quite opposite; because of cool climate. Norway hasn't geysers anyways, well.. based on googling there is two way up north at the north pole or something like that, but not at the main land.

The best cooling for machinery is the arctic wind.

[seeandsee]

They have money in their pockets!

[aka123]

Originally Posted by hadden

The best cooling for machinery is the arctic wind.

I don't know about the wind, but here is sea water used (not in Norway).

"The facility is one of the most advanced and efficient data centers in the Google fleet. Our high-tech cooling system, which uses sea water from the Bay of Finland, reduces energy use and is the first of its kind anywhere in the world. "

Although not the only reason, I bet that the energy infrastructure plays big part in Norway too.

" Why did Google choose Hamina?

Hamina has the right combination of energy infrastructure, developable land and available workforce for the data center. We had the unique opportunity to salvage an old paper mill in Hamina and use the pre-existing infrastructure to build a data center there. "

https://www.google.com/about/datacen...ations/hamina/

[slapass]

A big chunk of that is the subsidy. Add in that 20% of the country lives in one urban area Even if you add Sweden, the over all land area is not that big. Electric cars make more sense for lots of short trips.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by slapass

A big chunk of that is the subsidy. Add in that 20% of the country lives in one urban area Even if you add Sweden, the over all land area is not that big. Electric cars make more sense for lots of short trips.

The width of Norway is about 400 km and with Sweden the overal distance is about 800 km. Is that short trip to you? The gasoline alone will cost about 36-70 euros (one way) with 6 litre/100 km consumption.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Mark, you do realize that electric cars may actually end up polluting MORE than say a clean diesel car, right? I'll let you wrap your head around that for a bit. :winkwink


Iceland. Norway has a lot of hydro energy and other types like that.

********** has never heard of clean diesel tech and in fact thinks anyone who uses the words clean and diesel in the same sentence is an idiot.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by XXXBizXXX

Here's Why The Tesla Model S Is The #1 Selling Car In Norway

Fuckers did not even manage to add a comparison of prices... That would be like one of the most important/interesting things to an article.

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by EngineCash

They say that the Norway is the best place to live in...

well, if you like darkness, ice and cold for half year and crappy weather for other half, it's not so bad... standard is high, but beer in normal bar is 10 euros, in some cheap is 9, pizza is from 20 euros , bottle of vodka or something similar in the shop is around 70 euros, in small towns in fjords people will accept vodka/whishey/rum as payment for some services (e.g. renting of boats) as it's really to expensive and they like to drink

also if you like quietness and not much communication with people around you, it's good, but it's bloody boring place, I've been there for 8-9 times in several places and don't have some wish to come back even as tourist

[Sly]

Originally Posted by aka123

The width of Norway is about 400 km and with Sweden the overal distance is about 800 km. Is that short trip to you? The gasoline alone will cost about 36-70 euros (one way) with 6 litre/100 km consumption.

Compared to the United States, yes, 400 km is not a long trip.

Though you did just bring up another good point. Gas in Europe is significantly more expensive than gas in the United States, which would give Europeans in general more of a reason to go electric car if electricity was a cheaper energy source.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Tom.K

beer in normal bar is 10 euros, in some cheap is 9,t

Interesting. In many countries beer in cheap bars are lets say half cheaper. 10% is not enough to go to the "cheap" bar when you can drink at normal one
This may be due to the high taxes probably? Like lets say tax is 8Eur, so one bar sell for 1eur + tax and another for 2 eur + tax
That may explain only the slight difference, but like I said - no point in going to chap bar to save only 10% on beer

[dyna mo]

the real reasons why:

The prosperous country enjoys a GDP per capita of almost $65,000, which overshadows the US per capita GDP of $53,000.

The Norwegian government has also waived sales tax on electric cars sold in the country. Typical taxes on conventional cars can almost double the cost for consumers.

Users of Norwegian electric vehicles (EV) can also use bus lanes, park for free, and don’t have to pay road tolls, making EVs seem almost like a bargain.

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the real reasons why:

The prosperous country enjoys a GDP per capita of almost $65,000, which overshadows the US per capita GDP of $53,000.

Wealth distribution is also a lot flatter. VERY broad middle class, with a close-to-non-existent lower class and a fairly thin upper class.

[EonBlue]

I love when people try to scale the function and economics of a small low population country like Norway up to the US which is the third most populous and third largest by land mass in the world. Anyone who thinks it can be done needs to put down the pipe full of magic pixie dust.



.

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Interesting. In many countries beer in cheap bars are lets say half cheaper. 10% is not enough to go to the "cheap" bar when you can drink at normal one
This may be due to the high taxes probably? Like lets say tax is 8Eur, so one bar sell for 1eur + tax and another for 2 eur + tax
That may explain only the slight difference, but like I said - no point in going to chap bar to save only 10% on beer

well, to be honest, I haven't seen "classic" dumpholes like you have in most places in the world, but beer was generally everywhere 8-12 euros. after first time, we were bringing our own drinks out (I've been working on the cruise ship, beer for crew was around 70 cents). In shops in Norway 6 pack (small beers) is around 15 euros. Even for money they earn, alcohol is very expensive

anyway, I'm living happily in Czech Republic now and today I sow beer for 60 euro cents in bar in my street. and beer is here up to 1.5 euros in classy place

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Mark, you do realize that electric cars may actually end up polluting MORE than say a clean diesel car, right? I'll let you wrap your head around that for a bit. :winkwink

Links please...

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

********** has never heard of clean diesel tech and in fact thinks anyone who uses the words clean and diesel in the same sentence is an idiot.

Dynamo,

Once again, you are talking for me. Please don't. Once again, you talk as if you know me. You don't, so please stop.

Moving forward, of course I have heard about clean Diesel, also called ULSD, or ultra-low sulphur diesel. It is surprisingly clean, but for me anyway, it's just not good enough. Maintenance costs on these cars are much higher as is the fuel itself.

While Diesel is more efficient, the fuel is more expensive than gas. In the U.S., diesel fuel tends to be more expensive than gasoline - thanks in part to lopsided federal tax rates - and diesel rises and falls based on different factors than gasoline. So when gasoline is priced low, diesel can still be high, and when gasoline is high, diesel fuel can be even higher.

Also, don't forget that Canadian, US and many other governments offer tax breaks when you buy electric. (I received $8500 credit towards my car, $1000 to buy a 220v charger (which cost only $650 btw), and other incentives. No governments offer tax breaks to buy Clean Diesel. The $3400 tax credit that the US offered back in 2006 expired and was never renewed.

Finally, the energy delivery infrastructure is just out of date when it comes to electricity. (Diesel fuel has to be reminded from oil, transported, stored, and pumped. The money you pay for this fuel, depending on where you live of course, goes to companies like Exxon and Duke, who you know to be reckless when it comes to the environment. For me anyway, electricity is as close as my garage, the energy comes from hydro electric damns instead of oil, and the money goes to a company with a better green thumb.

You keep thinking that electric sucks, but it doesn't. Electric is not the best solution for everyone, or every kind of car or truck, or every location, but it is for some. I wish you would realize that.

Peace.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by EonBlue

I love when people try to scale the function and economics of a small low population country like Norway up to the US which is the third most populous and third largest by land mass in the world. Anyone who thinks it can be done needs to put down the pipe full of magic pixie dust.



.

And who is trying to do that?

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by **********

Links please...

No need. How green an electric car ultimately comes down to how green the energy production is. If the electricity used to charge the car's batteries comes from say hydropower, then an electric car pollutes less than a clean diesel equivalent. If the electricity comes from fossil fuel plants, then it will pollute more than a clean diesel car. That's because the production of electricity itself results in much more CO2 to charge the batteries, than what a clean diesel car would produce when driven. Basic math.

There are figures out there about how much each country (or state) pollutes in terms of energy production, according to the sources it uses for it. Feel free to search for them.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

Dynamo,

Once again, you are talking for me. Please don't. Once again, you talk as if you know me. You don't, so please stop.

Moving forward, of course I have heard about clean Diesel, also called ULSD, or ultra-low sulphur diesel. It is surprisingly clean, but for me anyway, it's just not good enough. Maintenance costs on these cars are much higher as is the fuel itself.

While Diesel is more efficient, the fuel is more expensive than gas. In the U.S., diesel fuel tends to be more expensive than gasoline - thanks in part to lopsided federal tax rates - and diesel rises and falls based on different factors than gasoline. So when gasoline is priced low, diesel can still be high, and when gasoline is high, diesel fuel can be even higher.

Also, don't forget that Canadian, US and many other governments offer tax breaks when you buy electric. (I received $8500 credit towards my car, $1000 to buy a 220v charger (which cost only $650 btw), and other incentives. No governments offer tax breaks to buy Clean Diesel. The $3400 tax credit that the US offered back in 2006 expired and was never renewed.

Finally, the energy delivery infrastructure is just out of date when it comes to electricity. (Diesel fuel has to be reminded from oil, transported, stored, and pumped. The money you pay for this fuel, depending on where you live of course, goes to companies like Exxon and Duke, who you know to be reckless when it comes to the environment. For me anyway, electricity is as close as my garage, the energy comes from hydro electric damns instead of oil, and the money goes to a company with a better green thumb.

You keep thinking that electric sucks, but it doesn't. Electric is not the best solution for everyone, or every kind of car or truck, or every location, but it is for some. I wish you would realize that.

Peace.

**********, your post from 9 days ago:

Originally Posted by **********

You're the one trying to make the point, bitch, but you have yet to post links to back up any of your claims. Where are they?

Only a complete idiot would use the word "clean" and "diesel" in the same sentence. Kindly post links that prove diesel is clean or cleaner than electric.

And yet, you have posted none.

Toots bitch!

the sad part is how you come here and participate in threads re: subjects you have no idea about.

but the bizarre part is how you'd spend $40,000 on a car you didn't even research, else you would have known about all the clean diesel options in your country.

piece!

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Sly

Compared to the United States, yes, 400 km is not a long trip.

Though you did just bring up another good point. Gas in Europe is significantly more expensive than gas in the United States, which would give Europeans in general more of a reason to go electric car if electricity was a cheaper energy source.

Is not a long trip compared to what? Is it common in US to drive thousands kilometres (or miles)?

If you drive to other side of Norway (vertically) it is pretty much the same as driving across US horizontally, but what is the fucking point? Some vacation maybe (sometimes), but significant amount of driving is not usually that meaningful and in Europe it is also fucking expensive. People will usually try to minimize their driving, not maximize. Not just for the money or to avoid dull driving, for environmental reasons also.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by DamageX

No need. How green an electric car ultimately comes down to how green the energy production is. If the electricity used to charge the car's batteries comes from say hydropower, then an electric car pollutes less than a clean diesel equivalent. If the electricity comes from fossil fuel plants, then it will pollute more than a clean diesel car. That's because the production of electricity itself results in much more CO2 to charge the batteries, than what a clean diesel car would produce when driven. Basic math.

There are figures out there about how much each country (or state) pollutes in terms of energy production, according to the sources it uses for it. Feel free to search for them.

Hi Damagex,

You made a statement but didn't prove it, which is why I asked for links.

But regardless, you are partially right. Here in Montreal, Canada, most of our energy comes from Hydro and Nuclear. It some places around the world, most or all of the electricity comes from coal.

However that being said, the saying that electric cars do nothing for the environment if the electricity comes from coal is a myth. There is a really good article about it at this link: The ‘electric cars aren’t green’ myth debunked | shrinkthatfootprint.com . So even if you are in a state with lots of "dirty' electricity, driving electric is still a good idea.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

**********, your post from 9 days ago:



the sad part is how you come here and participate in threads re: subjects you have no idea about.

Dynamo:
"Clean" Diesel burns more cleanly than gasoline in that it has less pollutants, but it also contributes 13% more CO2 to the environment. The "Clean" in clean diesel is a marketing keyword at best. "Clean" Diesel still increases air pollution, creates more oil dependance, and increases the carbon footprint. And just like gasoline engines, the exhaust is still dangerous. Breathing in even relatively small amounts of diesel exhaust can cause serious illness--especially in children, the elderly or the chronically ill. Even very short term exposure can cause existing allergies to worsen or cause symptoms of asthma or bronchitis.

Now that being said, "Clean Diesel" is still a significant step forward and is much better than old Diesel for sure. But it still sucks.

Originally Posted by dyna mo

but the bizarre part is how you'd spend $40,000 on a car you didn't even research, else you would have known about all the clean diesel options in your country!

And again, again, again, Dynamo, stop talking for me. You really don't know anything at all when it comes to me and when you try to talk for me, you lie, distort facts, or just make stuff up, who knows. Are you trying to lie to me? Or to yourself? Or to GFY readers? Or all of the above? Intradesting...

Anyway, Of course I did my research. Electric cars, in Canada, has the smallest environmental impact, is the cheapest to "fuel", and in my head anyway, lots of fun to drive too.

The car did not cost $50,000. The Chevy Volt retails for $38,500 CAD - $8500 instant government credit, - $2200 GM customer loyalty credit. Total : $28,800. This also does not include a 3 year 40 cent per litre discount on fuel that I gave to Tracy, the $1000 tax credit for the purchase of a $600 220v charger, etc. All of this I've said before, all of this you know, and all of which you seem to want to ignore.

Originally Posted by dyna mo

piece

It's spelled "Peace".

Peace.

m

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by **********

Hi Damagex,

You made a statement but didn't prove it, which is why I asked for links.

But regardless, you are partially right. Here in Montreal, Canada, most of our energy comes from Hydro and Nuclear. It some places around the world, most or all of the electricity comes from coal.

However that being said, the saying that electric cars do nothing for the environment if the electricity comes from coal is a myth. There is a really good article about it at this link: The ?electric cars aren?t green? myth debunked | shrinkthatfootprint.com . So even if you are in a state with lots of "dirty' electricity, driving electric is still a good idea.

Those figures seem bogus to me, at best. I'll see if I can be assed to collect some data, run the numbers and post it all here.

[The Porn Nerd]

Chicks in Norway are hotter than chicks in the US so....Norway for the win!!

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

Dynamo:
"Clean" Diesel burns more cleanly than gasoline in that it has less pollutants, but it also contributes 13% more CO2 to the environment. The "Clean" in clean diesel is a marketing keyword at best. "Clean" Diesel still increases air pollution, creates more oil dependance, and increases the carbon footprint. And just like gasoline engines, the exhaust is still dangerous. Breathing in even relatively small amounts of diesel exhaust can cause serious illness--especially in children, the elderly or the chronically ill. Even very short term exposure can cause existing allergies to worsen or cause symptoms of asthma or bronchitis.

Now that being said, "Clean Diesel" is still a significant step forward and is much better than old Diesel for sure. But it still sucks.



And again, again, again, Dynamo, stop talking for me. You really don't know anything at all when it comes to me and when you try to talk for me, you lie, distort facts, or just make stuff up, who knows. Are you trying to lie to me? Or to yourself? Or to GFY readers? Or all of the above? Intradesting...

Anyway, Of course I did my research. Electric cars, in Canada, has the smallest environmental impact, is the cheapest to "fuel", and in my head anyway, lots of fun to drive too.

The car did not cost $50,000. The Chevy Volt retails for $38,500 CAD - $8500 instant government credit, - $2200 GM customer loyalty credit. Total : $28,800. This also does not include a 3 year 40 cent per litre discount on fuel that I gave to Tracy, the $1000 tax credit for the purchase of a $600 220v charger, etc. All of this I've said before, all of this you know, and all of which you seem to want to ignore.




It's spelled "Peace".

Peace.

m

wrong.


But continue talking about shit which you know nothing about, we are all used to it and expect it. again, 9 days ago you thought anyone who used clean and diesel in the same sentence is an idiot, yet here you go soapboxing about it.

and I spelt it piece for a reason.

gofuckyourself.

[druid66]

anyone thinking abotu living in norway try movie serie first - lillyhammer - hilarious black comedy and shows norway pretty nice to figure out some opinions

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wrong.


But continue talking about shit which you know nothing about, we are all used to it and expect it. again, 9 days ago you thought anyone who used clean and diesel in the same sentence is an idiot, yet here you go soapboxing about it.

and I spelt it piece for a reason.

gofuckyourself.

Alright.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

Alright.

In going to stop ducking with you starting new towards day. Its my new years resolution. Heads up.