News Greece Looks Like It Will Default - What Happens Next?.. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 06-29-2015, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Paul, we accept the fact that there are donor and recipient states in the US and the shoe may be on the other foot some day. We also don't want mass migrations state to state for economic reasons this causes social unrest.

Eutopeans are to diverse to ever accept that.

Quote:

The movement of the Roma within the EU and future Turkish immigration when (if) Turkey ever is accepted into the EU would be a European parallel.

It would lead to some countries voting out. Mass migrations is a major issue here.

Quote:

It is better (and in the long run less expensive) to improve people's lives and opportunities where they live within a national federation than to have to assimilate them into your state's better economic and lifestyle environment. However, you cannot necessarily improve social conditions one state compared to another. A lot of the social problems in the USA are caused by these social problems eluded to.

In America this can be done as the culture's are similar. In Europe it's impossible to make a Greek, be like a German. Except in rare cases.

NewNick · 06-29-2015, 03:32 AM

Lesson No. 1.

You cannot run a single currency unless you have a unified fiscal policy which governs levels of taxation and government spending.

djroof · 06-29-2015, 09:28 AM

Markets fallen today... but EURO is STRONGER that DOLLAR... WoW!!!

romeo22 · 06-29-2015, 09:56 AM

My country blocked all money transfers to greece

sperbonzo · 06-29-2015, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Go back to school man....

Actually, he's quite correct. Currency exchanges allow the productivity levels of a country/culture to be reflected in the value of their currency, thus when that level drops, the cheaper currency encourages exports, as well as investment, and helps to stabilize an economy. However, when a low productivity situation, like Greece's, is tied to the same high currency value as a high productivity situation, like Germany's , then there is no safety valve available through the devaluation of the currency.

.

klinton · 06-29-2015, 10:52 AM

add to that Spain and Portugal.
and for Germans ? weak euro is also blessing as they may export everything @ great prices and make good money

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Actually, he's quite correct. Currency exchanges allow the productivity levels of a country/culture to be reflected in the value of their currency, thus when that level drops, the cheaper currency encourages exports, as well as investment, and helps to stabilize an economy. However, when a low productivity situation, like Greece's, is tied to the same high currency value as a high productivity situation, like Germany's , then there is no safety valve available through the devaluation of the currency.

.

Tasty1 · 06-29-2015, 10:52 AM

Greece will go for the Drachme, print a lot of new money and soon the tourist will come back cause it gets affordable again. Most tourist went to Turkey now (i think a lot of people must love those shitty all in one hotels with bad food and annoying fellow travellers).

There won't be any big problems for Europe, Greece cost more than it could give to Europe. It will be good for Europe and for Greece if they leave the EU. People allready kept their money hidden under their bed, no need for ATM machines. The rich will profit from it in Greek and buy everything they can from he poor Greeks who need money. The poor people will be poorer, the rich richer and in the end there will be new governments that promise a lot, fill their pockets and print new money.

Tasty1 · 06-29-2015, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djroof

Markets fallen today... but EURO is STRONGER that DOLLAR... WoW!!!

The markets are not falling down, at least not in Holland. The stockmarket index dropped just 3%, while it rised last week with 6%. Still higher than the bottom we had 2 weeks ago, what was still 20% higher than the beginning of the year. In the end people predict this year a 25% rise of the stock market. Greece has only 2% econmoic influence in Europe.

2MuchMark · 06-29-2015, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies..

AntonMG · 06-29-2015, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Barry-xlovecam · 06-29-2015, 12:40 PM

I visited Czech Republic, Hungary and Romania in 2012 all EU countries but using their own currencies -- their consumer prices seemed lower than consumer prices in France(2014), Greece(2013) and The Netherlands(2012, 13) where I also visited. Greece was overpriced in Euros with the exception of state subsidized transport (subways and buses) when compared with wages.

My week's vacation in Paris(2014) was actually cheaper than my week's vacation in Athens(2013)

Tasty1 · 06-29-2015, 03:48 PM

sperbonzo · 06-29-2015, 06:51 PM

Here is a pretty good summation....

"The Greeks Have a Loan Payment Due Tomorrow They Are Not Going to Make

Last week, the Greek government walked away from the negotiating table with its creditors and enablers?the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund, called the "Troika." The group wanted Greece to commit to more spending cuts and not just more tax hikes as a condition of receiving more bailout money with which they could keep paying off their debts. The Greek prime minister, 40-year-old Alexis Tsipras, who was elected in a snap election in January promising less austerity but also that Greece would remain in the euro, said he would leave the decision to accept the bailout terms to Greek voters, scheduling a referendum for July 5. But Greece's next payment, $1.8 billion to the IMF, is due tomorrow?the country says it will not be making that payment, which have pushed global markets into a downward slide today. Greek citizens have been queuing up at ATMs for weeks, and this weekend the government finally announced banks would be closed all week. But public transportation in the city will be free.

Tsipras, as well as proponents of a "NO" vote on the bailout insist it's possible for Greece to remain in the European Union?they're betting that Greece's creditors will come back with a better deal if this one is rejected at the ballot box. Europe's political leaders have insisted that's not the case?that the deal on the table, requiring pension and labor market reforms, was the best Greece was going to get. Those reforms are likely necessary for any kind of substantive economic recovery that could bring Greece back to a level where it's a healthy member of the European Union. That's important because?

The EU is a Political and Monetary Union, Not a Fiscal One

For nearly the first decade of the 21st century, the European Union tried without success to get its member states to accept a Constitutional treaty that would further integrate the EU's political system and settle important issues like the supranational organization's official anthem and flag. The euro currency, the apex achievement of the European project, created a monetary union, eventually bringing 19 out of the 28 EU countries under a single currency and a single central bank. But each country retained its own fiscal policymaking power?crucially without the ability to print money that can help government spend a lot of money without necessarily having to raise taxes at that very moment. In Greece, where tax evasion is a social norm, this tool was particularly important. Greek tax evaders were not tax resisters seeking a more limited government?they supported, and even demanded, more government spending and a larger welfare state even while refusing to pay all their taxes. Now they want other countries in the EU to plug the hole they won't. One study suggested 31 percent of Greece's budget deficit could be covered by taxes on the estimated 28 billion euros in annual unreported income. The same kind of schizophrenic Greek attitude contributed to the current problem in the short term...

Greece Had a Prime Minister Who May Have Been Fixing Things, and Voted Him Out of Office

Last we heard from Greece was in 2011 or 2012, when they were, like now, on the brink of possibly exiting the eurozone. Greece secured a series of loans, agreed to so-called austerity measures, and crisis, for a while, had been avoided. Greece had a prime minister, Antonis Samaras, who came closer than any other in the last 40 years to achieving a balanced budget. Briefly, Greece had the fastest growing economy in Europe. The tax delinquency rate didn't go down, but Greek citizens grew tired of austerity, blaming the European Union for the consequences of their own reckless fiscal policy and politics. Tsipras won a snap election in January in part on a promise to undo the EU-imposed reforms. This would be simple enough if Greece unilaterally decided to exit the eurozone?but Tsipras also promised Greece could stay in the EU. These two promises are virtually mutually exclusive. The EU's reforms are necessary not just to get Greece out of the current crisis but to bring its economy to a caliber that fits with many of the other economies of the Eurozone. What are those reforms?

Europe's Reforms for Greece Ought to Be Pretty Uncontroversial

The Greeks say they want more money from their creditors now without having to make any changes. But they are not being honest and saying outright that they want a handout. They insist on the fiction that the loans will be repaid. Without the reforms Europe is asking for, that is impossible. Greece, for example, has 133 separate government pension funds. The troika wants Greece to simplify its pension system, to stop running deficits in its pension fund, to stop permitting early retirement, and to cut government contributions to pensions. They also want Greece to reverse a minimum wage hike the Tsipras government instituted?a higher minimum wage, of course, keeps more people out of the job market and, and this is especially relevant to Greece, provides more incentive for off-the-books work, from which the Greek government can't extract taxes creditors need it to so that their loans don't become total handouts.

Europeans May Be Losing Patience

While Greece is the economic crisis getting the most international headlines, the entire Eurozone has remained in a bleak economic condition for the last several years. It still has a double digit unemployment rate. Eurosceptic parties have seen their luck turn for the better at the ballot box. The majority of citizens in only two countries?Germany, with the richest economy, and Poland, with the most emigrants sending remittances from the rest of Europe?believe European integration has strengthened the economies of their countries. Arguments about democracy meaning the Greeks are entitled to money from Europeans elsewhere on the continent notwithstanding, European public opinion may be getting weary of the Greek crisis and the Greeks' insistence Europe needs to pay for its bloated welfare state. But Europeans interested in saving Greece can do something about it, without forcing their less interested fellow Europeans to commit their money. An Indiegogo campaign to raise 1.6 billion euros for Greece to make its next loan payment was launched earlier today. It's raised almost 9,000 euros in less than one day, far from the mark but more than most crowdsourcing campaigns raise on the first day."

.

Barry-xlovecam · 06-29-2015, 08:02 PM

Quote:

[I]n the European Union, there is also a system of deposit insurance, but it?s a bit more complicated since every country has its own deposit insurance fund. In 2008, member countries agreed to insure up to 100,000 euros in deposits. The Hellenic Deposit Guarantee Fund is Greece?s version of the FDIC. While U.S. depositors would be paid very quickly, it could take up to three months for a depositor to be paid in Greece. Also, the Hellenic Deposit Guarantee Fund isn?t backed by an institution like the U.S. Treasury, which severely limits the fund?s ability to raise money quickly if depositors begin a run on the banks.

As of March 2012, banks in Greece had approximately 174 billion euros in deposits, and the deposit insurance fund had approximately 3 billion euros in it. Greece?s deposit insurance fund could borrow from other deposit insurance funds in the eurozone if it were to run low on money. But if depositors fear that their banks might fail or that Greece might drop the euro and use the drachma instead, then it?s unlikely that the deposit insurance fund would do much good. ...

https://blogs.wellsfargo.com/advanta...-run-but-mayb/

3 billion euros as of March 2012. What do you think the deposit insurance reserves are in Greece today? Greek banks may be out of cash euros within a week or two of reopening. Why do you think there has been placed a ban on foreign payments? Greeks moving euros to other more stable eurozone banks ... The banks would not be able to honor the drafts to the payment (deposit) receiving banks.

The Greek banks are up shit's creek without a paddle

pornlaw · 06-29-2015, 11:27 PM

Interesting how the Germans under Merkel have come to dominate Europe using the Euro where Hilter failed to do the same with tanks.

I am shocked how the rest of Europe follows Germany's commands a mere 70 years after the end of WW2.

If Greece prospers it will be interesting to see if Italy follows them. Greece & Italy are the two largest tourist economies and have seem to taken the brunt of hurt caused by the Euro. When I was in Italy 2 years ago the Italians were still complaining about the Euro and wanted to go back to the Lire to bring the tourist money back.

MPGdevil · 06-30-2015, 02:18 AM

Being able to retire at an age of 40? What the fuck were the idiots thinking. Only have themselves and incompetent governments to blame. Kick them out of EU if that's their desire.

Barry-xlovecam · 06-30-2015, 06:17 AM

67

Greece Retirement Age - Men | 2009-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar

woj · 06-30-2015, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

67

Greece Retirement Age - Men | 2009-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar

That might be the "official" retirement age, but ->

?In the public sector, 7.91% of pensioners retire between the ages of 26 and 50, 23.64% between 51 and 55, and 43.53% between 56 and 61. In IKA, 4.44% of pensioners retire between the ages of 26 and 50, 12.83% retire between 51 and 55, and 58.61% retire between 56 and 61. Meanwhile, in the so-called healthy funds, 91.6% of people retire before the national retirement age limit,? Vroutsis said.

75% of Greek Pensioners Enjoy Early Retirement | GreekReporter.com

RummyBoy · 06-30-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

I wonder what Bert and Ernie would have had to say about this..... I bet they would have handled things better too. I think its time Greece defaulted.... they can start from fresh. Better they collapse while everything else seems to be chugging along, rather than they collapse while everything else is collapsing.

As well as..... Greece will be a great place to holiday for a while (at least it will be before/after the riots).

Barry-xlovecam · 06-30-2015, 08:19 AM

OK

Well, those lazy Greeks!

And with so many ''retired'' early the unemployment rate is so high ...

Either there is no real work in Greece or many Greeks are working ''under the table.''

We have lots of ''retired'' people 18 to 62-years-old in America too -- their pension is called ''welfare'' and they work under the table. Rush hour is a bitch in Athens -- it's avenues full and stop and go -- they were doing something ...

What I did not see in the Athens area was a lot of industrial activity. There is not much of an industrial infrastructure in Greece. Greece is not heavily industrialized like Germany or France. Greece is not a money or trade center like The Netherlands. Greece probably doesn't belong in the Eurozone -- not on its current terms. The Eurozone is better off without having to support the weight of Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal, but only because they are unwilling to. The Greeks may not accept their ''terms.'' The Eurozone member-states of the EU are sovereign nations with national interests and issues.

June 28th may have been the beginning of the end of the euro but not the political and trade alliances of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
An EU like Federation was unworkable in the post revolution US

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation#European_Union
EU type federation of nations

US Americans cannot understand the national and ethnic differences in Europe. It is not like the racial conflicts in the US. Europeans have been fighting wars between each other for a thousand or more years over nationalism and religion. Wars of Nationalism, Capitalism, Socialism and Communism for the last 100 years -- fighting wars and wars of words.

Greece is a great whipping boy

Really, to a degree the Greeks set themselves up for this.

MaDalton · 06-30-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornlaw

Interesting how the Germans under Merkel have come to dominate Europe using the Euro where Hilter failed to do the same with tanks.

I am shocked how the rest of Europe follows Germany's commands a mere 70 years after the end of WW2.

If Greece prospers it will be interesting to see if Italy follows them. Greece & Italy are the two largest tourist economies and have seem to taken the brunt of hurt caused by the Euro. When I was in Italy 2 years ago the Italians were still complaining about the Euro and wanted to go back to the Lire to bring the tourist money back.

can we please leave out the politics from 70 years ago?

please see my post from page one of this thread and how greek people agree

many other EU countries got their shit together, the greek not (yet)

seriously, now you only need to post some nazi pictures and we're at the same level as the dumbshits on the street that completely ignore reality and just like to scream and throw stones

crockett · 06-30-2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

My hope is that people will look at what happens when a country tries to give people too much free money and "free" services.
Perhaps that will change people's minds about always wanting the govt. here in the U.S. to take care of them like they are babies.

Socialism always ends up bankrupt.

Actually, the lesson is... Look what happens when no one pays their taxes...

woj · 06-30-2015, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Actually, the lesson is... Look what happens when no one pays their taxes...

reasonable theory, but ->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ntage_of_ GDP

Greece 30.0%, which is on par with most other countries... so Robbie is right, over-spending is the problem...

MaDalton · 06-30-2015, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

reasonable theory, but ->

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ntage_of_ GDP

Greece 30.0%, which is on par with most other countries... so Robbie is right, over-spending is the problem...

no one pays their fucking taxes in Greece - did you not get the memo?

woj · 06-30-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

no one pays their fucking taxes in Greece - did you not get the memo?

How do you explain the fact that 30% of GDP is magically collected?

Robbie · 06-30-2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Actually, the lesson is... Look what happens when no one pays their taxes...

crockett, I think that you aren't willing to accept that socialism in it's extreme forms never works...unless there are some outside factors keeping it afloat.

When so many people in Greece are on the public dole and retiring at early ages (thanks to the govt.), you are going to shrink your tax base.

That's how real life works.

You give people motivation to work and they will. You take that away from them and give them motivation to NOT work...then that's what they will do.

Same thing is slowly happening to our country. And examples like Greece are what you end up with at the end of that tunnel.

MaDalton · 06-30-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

How do you explain the fact that 30% of GDP is magically collected?

i explain it by the fact that no official numbers by the greek government turned out to be true

woj · 06-30-2015, 03:08 PM

This page spells out better what the problem is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...centage_of_GDP

Country Tax burden % GDP Govt. expend. % GDP
Greece 31.2 51.9

They collect 31.2% of GDP, but spend 51.9% (which turns out to be one of the highest in the world)...

MaDalton · 06-30-2015, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

When so many people in Greece are on the public dole and retiring at early ages (thanks to the govt.), you are going to shrink your tax base.

and this has nothing to do with socialism, it has something to do with a corrupted society and it happened no matter whether there was a socialist or conservative government for the last decades

it has been a longstanding tradition to award votes with government jobs in return, sometimes up to the point where those people didn't even show up for any work and only collected their monthly income. and then retired on government dime at 55.

look at greek bureaucracy when it comes to creating jobs - once again, no matter which government was in place in the past.

... actually - i can't and i won't write down all the absurdities of that country while being called Nazi while my country covered that shit all these years

I just feel for my greek friends and their families - while about 2000 greek people own 80% of the total wealth of that country and most of them are not even obliged to pay taxes according to their constitution

Robbie · 06-30-2015, 03:24 PM

So you think that a socialist society would function better than a capitalistic one?

I don't think that socialism is a good way for society to function at all.

Again: it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work.

Tasty1 · 06-30-2015, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

So you think that a socialist society would function better than a capitalistic one?

I don't think that socialism is a good way for society to function at all.

Again: it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work.

Unemployment rates in Holland are almost equal to the USA.
Except everybody has health insurance, wellfare if needed,
and we still can buy off all Greece debts if needed.

Robbie · 06-30-2015, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn_Tasty1

Unemployment rates in Holland are almost equal to the USA.
Except everybody has health insurance, wellfare if needed,
and we still can buy off all Greece debts if needed.

Not sure what you're getting at.

Does that mean that you think that socialism is a better way for society and that it can be successful and somehow people (not just a few at the top) can "get ahead" in life and work their way up to fulfill their ambitions?

Tasty1 · 06-30-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Not sure what you're getting at.

Does that mean that you think that socialism is a better way for society and that it can be successful and somehow people (not just a few at the top) can "get ahead" in life and work their way up to fulfill their ambitions?

Well, you said " it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work.".
That would imply that there are more people unemployed in a more socialist country.
But if you look at the numbers with some more soacialist countries, that is not the case.

Between a more socialist country and 100% socialism is a huge difference.
I think there isn't a 100% socialist country, most of the time the politics are between right and left.

Yes, i think in a more socialist land people 'get ahead' in life and become what they want. Maybe even more cause everybody is able to go to university and has good Healthcare, better life environment. Europe isn't Korea. You think everybody in the USA is able to visit the best school, get Always good healthcare and Always a minimun you can life from to offer your children also a better future?

Robbie · 06-30-2015, 10:17 PM

Fair enough.

Not the way I see things. But if everyone thought the same it would be a boring world.

I prefer "dog-eat-dog" capitalism. I like to compete and enjoy being forced to raise my game.

Paul Markham · 06-30-2015, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewNick

Lesson No. 1.

You cannot run a single currency unless you have a unified fiscal policy which governs levels of taxation and government spending.

Few EU countries would of joined the Euro with those rules. Especially Greece, probably Italy, Spain and Portugal. The EU is the bureaucrats and politicians wet dream. The had a good trade agreement with the Common Market. Since then have taken every step they can to make Europe one Federal State. With populations who see themselves as people of their country first and Europeans a poor second.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You give people motivation to work and they will. You take that away from them and give them motivation to NOT work...then that's what they will do.

Works like that in America with so many Americans caught up in the consumer race, going for the American Dream. Greeks and most of Southern Europe's people are very different. They will only work hard enough to get the essentials. Preferring a quieter life than working "50" hours a week and striving for the next gadget or a bigger car.

There's the problem the EU has to face head on. The Greeks, Spanish, Italians, should never of been given a blank check book.

Paul Markham · 06-30-2015, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn_Tasty1

Well, you said " it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work.".
That would imply that there are more people unemployed in a more socialist country.
But if you look at the numbers with some more soacialist countries, that is not the case.

Between a more socialist country and 100% socialism is a huge difference.
I think there isn't a 100% socialist country, most of the time the politics are between right and left.

Yes, i think in a more socialist land people 'get ahead' in life and become what they want. Maybe even more cause everybody is able to go to university and has good Healthcare, better life environment. Europe isn't Korea. You think everybody in the USA is able to visit the best school, get Always good healthcare and Always a minimun you can life from to offer your children also a better future?

Pure Socialism doesn't work, because it removes the reward factor for the best. Demoting or losing them.

Having a safety net for those in real need, like Pensions, Healthcare, Unemployment Benefits, Disability Pensions, is just looking after fellow citizens. Those who are fit enough to work, shouldn't be made to work looking after the society that looks after them. In return for their benefits.

As the world becomes more technical, it will need less people in low to medium paid jobs. This is going to present a real problem. With the increasing gap between those who can get a decent job and those who can't.

pornlaw · 06-30-2015, 10:52 PM

Greeks headed towards BitCoin as an alternative currency ??

Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin - Jun. 29, 2015

Paul&John · 06-30-2015, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornlaw

Greeks headed towards BitCoin as an alternative currency ??

Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin - Jun. 29, 2015

Unfortunately not that many of them

I bought some at $250 and it raised only to $260

RR Productions · 07-01-2015, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Actually, he's quite correct. Currency exchanges allow the productivity levels of a country/culture to be reflected in the value of their currency, thus when that level drops, the cheaper currency encourages exports, as well as investment, and helps to stabilize an economy. However, when a low productivity situation, like Greece's, is tied to the same high currency value as a high productivity situation, like Germany's , then there is no safety valve available through the devaluation of the currency.

.

Right. I envy EU countries with their own currency, such as Hungary or the Czech Republic.

but hey!, we need go back to school.

MetaMan · 07-01-2015, 03:13 AM

Socialsts make me fucking sick!

It is all a free ride for you idiots. Then you end up with situations like Greece and pull the entire society down with you.

No true busisness person can be a socialist (unless they are in bed with the government)

JJ Gold · 07-01-2015, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Fair enough.

Not the way I see things. But if everyone thought the same it would be a boring world.

I prefer "dog-eat-dog" capitalism. I like to compete and enjoy being forced to raise my game.

Three Cheers!!!

GFED · 07-01-2015, 05:03 AM

SPX making a LH and LL, following the lead of the majority of our sectors. Only 2/9 of them uptrending.

thinkorswim Sharing

If we can't rally above the prior high, I foresee us making a lower low around the 2030.25 price level. Hopefully we don't fall back below 2000. IMO Greece is just a distraction for what the market has been waiting to do since stopping QE last year.

NaughtyEmails · 07-01-2015, 06:23 AM

I know this is a bit callous taking advantage of a country sinking under waves of debt...

But is anybody else eyeing Greece as a discount porn-filming location? I've met some smoking hot Greek chicks and well...one has to pay the bills.

Abracadabra_nl · 07-01-2015, 07:04 AM

I sincerely hope it won't come to a Greek exit. On the brigher side, a strong euro would be good for me because my earnings are in dollars ;-)

tsester · 07-02-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaughtyEmails

I know this is a bit callous taking advantage of a country sinking under waves of debt...

But is anybody else eyeing Greece as a discount porn-filming location? I've met some smoking hot Greek chicks and well...one has to pay the bills.

welcome to greece.....be sure you have bills of 5 $

just a punk · 07-02-2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetaMan

Socialsts make me fucking sick!

Don't visit Sweden then. It's the most socialistic country on the Earth.

tsester · 07-02-2015, 12:17 PM

greek porn actress sofia xiouma

19 yo,new generation is the most sluttish one!

GFED · 07-02-2015, 07:33 PM

Not much movement today. Sitting on top of the 2067.75 price level is positive if we remain there on Monday, although we didn't make it above the blue trend line. Looking for a move to the upside of 2099, or the downside of 2030.25. thinkorswim Sharing

xsabn · 07-05-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn_Tasty1

Greece will go for the Drachme, print a lot of new money and soon the tourist will come back cause it gets affordable again. Most tourist went to Turkey now (i think a lot of people must love those shitty all in one hotels with bad food and annoying fellow travellers).

they can't, they smashed the drachma printing presses

lezinterracial · 07-05-2015, 01:02 PM

And the Greeks vote no. They are gonna need to build new presses. Maybe the EU will help with that.

06-29-2015, 03:32 AM	#52
NewNick Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7,033	Lesson No. 1. You cannot run a single currency unless you have a unified fiscal policy which governs levels of taxation and government spending. __________________ "Americas Hitler" JD Vance. “There isn’t really an upside to Trump.” Tucker Carlson. “a convicted felon rapist is now your president” OneHungLow, gfy.com

06-29-2015, 10:52 AM	#57
Tasty1 Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South-America Posts: 9,260	Greece will go for the Drachme, print a lot of new money and soon the tourist will come back cause it gets affordable again. Most tourist went to Turkey now (i think a lot of people must love those shitty all in one hotels with bad food and annoying fellow travellers). There won't be any big problems for Europe, Greece cost more than it could give to Europe. It will be good for Europe and for Greece if they leave the EU. People allready kept their money hidden under their bed, no need for ATM machines. The rich will profit from it in Greek and buy everything they can from he poor Greeks who need money. The poor people will be poorer, the rich richer and in the end there will be new governments that promise a lot, fill their pockets and print new money. __________________ everything is fake

06-29-2015, 03:48 PM	#62
Tasty1 Judge Jury and Executioner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South-America Posts: 9,260	__________________ everything is fake

06-29-2015, 06:51 PM	#63
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,743	Here is a pretty good summation.... "The Greeks Have a Loan Payment Due Tomorrow They Are Not Going to Make Last week, the Greek government walked away from the negotiating table with its creditors and enablers?the European Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund, called the "Troika." The group wanted Greece to commit to more spending cuts and not just more tax hikes as a condition of receiving more bailout money with which they could keep paying off their debts. The Greek prime minister, 40-year-old Alexis Tsipras, who was elected in a snap election in January promising less austerity but also that Greece would remain in the euro, said he would leave the decision to accept the bailout terms to Greek voters, scheduling a referendum for July 5. But Greece's next payment, $1.8 billion to the IMF, is due tomorrow?the country says it will not be making that payment, which have pushed global markets into a downward slide today. Greek citizens have been queuing up at ATMs for weeks, and this weekend the government finally announced banks would be closed all week. But public transportation in the city will be free. Tsipras, as well as proponents of a "NO" vote on the bailout insist it's possible for Greece to remain in the European Union?they're betting that Greece's creditors will come back with a better deal if this one is rejected at the ballot box. Europe's political leaders have insisted that's not the case?that the deal on the table, requiring pension and labor market reforms, was the best Greece was going to get. Those reforms are likely necessary for any kind of substantive economic recovery that could bring Greece back to a level where it's a healthy member of the European Union. That's important because? The EU is a Political and Monetary Union, Not a Fiscal One For nearly the first decade of the 21st century, the European Union tried without success to get its member states to accept a Constitutional treaty that would further integrate the EU's political system and settle important issues like the supranational organization's official anthem and flag. The euro currency, the apex achievement of the European project, created a monetary union, eventually bringing 19 out of the 28 EU countries under a single currency and a single central bank. But each country retained its own fiscal policymaking power?crucially without the ability to print money that can help government spend a lot of money without necessarily having to raise taxes at that very moment. In Greece, where tax evasion is a social norm, this tool was particularly important. Greek tax evaders were not tax resisters seeking a more limited government?they supported, and even demanded, more government spending and a larger welfare state even while refusing to pay all their taxes. Now they want other countries in the EU to plug the hole they won't. One study suggested 31 percent of Greece's budget deficit could be covered by taxes on the estimated 28 billion euros in annual unreported income. The same kind of schizophrenic Greek attitude contributed to the current problem in the short term... Greece Had a Prime Minister Who May Have Been Fixing Things, and Voted Him Out of Office Last we heard from Greece was in 2011 or 2012, when they were, like now, on the brink of possibly exiting the eurozone. Greece secured a series of loans, agreed to so-called austerity measures, and crisis, for a while, had been avoided. Greece had a prime minister, Antonis Samaras, who came closer than any other in the last 40 years to achieving a balanced budget. Briefly, Greece had the fastest growing economy in Europe. The tax delinquency rate didn't go down, but Greek citizens grew tired of austerity, blaming the European Union for the consequences of their own reckless fiscal policy and politics. Tsipras won a snap election in January in part on a promise to undo the EU-imposed reforms. This would be simple enough if Greece unilaterally decided to exit the eurozone?but Tsipras also promised Greece could stay in the EU. These two promises are virtually mutually exclusive. The EU's reforms are necessary not just to get Greece out of the current crisis but to bring its economy to a caliber that fits with many of the other economies of the Eurozone. What are those reforms? Europe's Reforms for Greece Ought to Be Pretty Uncontroversial The Greeks say they want more money from their creditors now without having to make any changes. But they are not being honest and saying outright that they want a handout. They insist on the fiction that the loans will be repaid. Without the reforms Europe is asking for, that is impossible. Greece, for example, has 133 separate government pension funds. The troika wants Greece to simplify its pension system, to stop running deficits in its pension fund, to stop permitting early retirement, and to cut government contributions to pensions. They also want Greece to reverse a minimum wage hike the Tsipras government instituted?a higher minimum wage, of course, keeps more people out of the job market and, and this is especially relevant to Greece, provides more incentive for off-the-books work, from which the Greek government can't extract taxes creditors need it to so that their loans don't become total handouts. Europeans May Be Losing Patience While Greece is the economic crisis getting the most international headlines, the entire Eurozone has remained in a bleak economic condition for the last several years. It still has a double digit unemployment rate. Eurosceptic parties have seen their luck turn for the better at the ballot box. The majority of citizens in only two countries?Germany, with the richest economy, and Poland, with the most emigrants sending remittances from the rest of Europe?believe European integration has strengthened the economies of their countries. Arguments about democracy meaning the Greeks are entitled to money from Europeans elsewhere on the continent notwithstanding, European public opinion may be getting weary of the Greek crisis and the Greeks' insistence Europe needs to pay for its bloated welfare state. But Europeans interested in saving Greece can do something about it, without forcing their less interested fellow Europeans to commit their money. An Indiegogo campaign to raise 1.6 billion euros for Greece to make its next loan payment was launched earlier today. It's raised almost 9,000 euros in less than one day, far from the mark but more than most crowdsourcing campaigns raise on the first day." . __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

06-29-2015, 11:27 PM	#65
pornlaw Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,854	Interesting how the Germans under Merkel have come to dominate Europe using the Euro where Hilter failed to do the same with tanks. I am shocked how the rest of Europe follows Germany's commands a mere 70 years after the end of WW2. If Greece prospers it will be interesting to see if Italy follows them. Greece & Italy are the two largest tourist economies and have seem to taken the brunt of hurt caused by the Euro. When I was in Italy 2 years ago the Italians were still complaining about the Euro and wanted to go back to the Lire to bring the tourist money back. __________________ Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com

06-29-2015, 09:28 AM	#53
djroof JuicyDevils.gr Owner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 25,373	Markets fallen today... but EURO is STRONGER that DOLLAR... WoW!!!

06-29-2015, 09:56 AM	#54
romeo22 你自己去他媽的 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 23,346	My country blocked all money transfers to greece

06-29-2015, 12:40 PM	#61
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	I visited Czech Republic, Hungary and Romania in 2012 all EU countries but using their own currencies -- their consumer prices seemed lower than consumer prices in France(2014), Greece(2013) and The Netherlands(2012, 13) where I also visited. Greece was overpriced in Euros with the exception of state subsidized transport (subways and buses) when compared with wages. My week's vacation in Paris(2014) was actually cheaper than my week's vacation in Athens(2013)

06-30-2015, 02:18 AM	#66
MPGdevil Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,210	Being able to retire at an age of 40? What the fuck were the idiots thinking. Only have themselves and incompetent governments to blame. Kick them out of EU if that's their desire.

06-30-2015, 06:17 AM	#67
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	67 Greece Retirement Age - Men \| 2009-2015 \| Data \| Chart \| Calendar

06-30-2015, 08:19 AM	#70
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	OK Well, those lazy Greeks! And with so many ''retired'' early the unemployment rate is so high ... Either there is no real work in Greece or many Greeks are working ''under the table.'' We have lots of ''retired'' people 18 to 62-years-old in America too -- their pension is called ''welfare'' and they work under the table. Rush hour is a bitch in Athens -- it's avenues full and stop and go -- they were doing something ... What I did not see in the Athens area was a lot of industrial activity. There is not much of an industrial infrastructure in Greece. Greece is not heavily industrialized like Germany or France. Greece is not a money or trade center like The Netherlands. Greece probably doesn't belong in the Eurozone -- not on its current terms. The Eurozone is better off without having to support the weight of Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal, but only because they are unwilling to. The Greeks may not accept their ''terms.'' The Eurozone member-states of the EU are sovereign nations with national interests and issues. June 28th may have been the beginning of the end of the euro but not the political and trade alliances of the EU. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation An EU like Federation was unworkable in the post revolution US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation#European_Union EU type federation of nations US Americans cannot understand the national and ethnic differences in Europe. It is not like the racial conflicts in the US. Europeans have been fighting wars between each other for a thousand or more years over nationalism and religion. Wars of Nationalism, Capitalism, Socialism and Communism for the last 100 years -- fighting wars and wars of words. Greece is a great whipping boy Really, to a degree the Greeks set themselves up for this.

06-30-2015, 03:08 PM	#78
woj <&(©¿©)&> Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 47,882	This page spells out better what the problem is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govern...centage_of_GDP Country Tax burden % GDP Govt. expend. % GDP Greece 31.2 51.9 They collect 31.2% of GDP, but spend 51.9% (which turns out to be one of the highest in the world)... __________________ Custom Software Development, email: woj#at#wojfun#.#com to discuss details or skype: wojl2000 or gchat: wojfun or telegram: wojl2000 Affiliate program tools: Hosted Galleries Manager Banner Manager Video Manager Wordpress Affiliate Plugin Pic/Movie of the Day Fansign Generator Zip Manager

06-30-2015, 03:24 PM	#80
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	So you think that a socialist society would function better than a capitalistic one? I don't think that socialism is a good way for society to function at all. Again: it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

06-30-2015, 10:17 PM	#84
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Fair enough. Not the way I see things. But if everyone thought the same it would be a boring world. I prefer "dog-eat-dog" capitalism. I like to compete and enjoy being forced to raise my game. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

06-30-2015, 10:52 PM	#87
pornlaw Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,854	Greeks headed towards BitCoin as an alternative currency ?? Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin - Jun. 29, 2015 __________________ Michael www.AdultBizLaw.com

07-01-2015, 03:13 AM	#90
MetaMan I AM WEB 2.0 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,682	Socialsts make me fucking sick! It is all a free ride for you idiots. Then you end up with situations like Greece and pull the entire society down with you. No true busisness person can be a socialist (unless they are in bed with the government)

07-01-2015, 05:03 AM	#92
GFED Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 8,098	SPX making a LH and LL, following the lead of the majority of our sectors. Only 2/9 of them uptrending. thinkorswim Sharing If we can't rally above the prior high, I foresee us making a lower low around the 2030.25 price level. Hopefully we don't fall back below 2000. IMO Greece is just a distraction for what the market has been waiting to do since stopping QE last year.

07-01-2015, 06:23 AM	#93
NaughtyEmails Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Florida...currently Posts: 47	I know this is a bit callous taking advantage of a country sinking under waves of debt... But is anybody else eyeing Greece as a discount porn-filming location? I've met some smoking hot Greek chicks and well...one has to pay the bills.

07-01-2015, 07:04 AM	#94
Abracadabra_nl Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 147	I sincerely hope it won't come to a Greek exit. On the brigher side, a strong euro would be good for me because my earnings are in dollars ;-) __________________ TubeUploads.com – The #1 Upload Service for Professionals

07-02-2015, 12:17 PM	#97
tsester Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 312	greek porn actress sofia xiouma 19 yo,new generation is the most sluttish one!

07-02-2015, 07:33 PM	#98
GFED Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 8,098	Not much movement today. Sitting on top of the 2067.75 price level is positive if we remain there on Monday, although we didn't make it above the blue trend line. Looking for a move to the upside of 2099, or the downside of 2030.25. thinkorswim Sharing

07-05-2015, 01:02 PM	#100
lezinterracial Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 3,064	And the Greeks vote no. They are gonna need to build new presses. Maybe the EU will help with that. __________________ Live Sex Shows