Donald Trump supports one Tim tax on the rich to pay off national debt - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Robbie · 08-04-2015, 07:43 AM

********** I think you can add Pres. Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Obama to the pic of Bush 2.

And then add in every slimeball Senator and Congressman who have turned our country into a huge funnel for money to the military industrial complex and worldwide wars with huge debt.

I personally don't think that ANY of these "business as usual" politicians are what we need. Republican and Democrat politicians in power have held hands for 50 years to fuck this country up.

I think we should REALLY "clean house".

Their ideas on both sides of the aisle are the same exact ones that we keep trading back and forth every 8 years or so. And they never work.

Barry-xlovecam · 08-04-2015, 08:16 AM

US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percent

Good Gods the facts hurt :P

Robbie · 08-04-2015, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percent

Good Gods the facts hurt :P

You have to keep in mind the following things as well. Each President and Congress has been steadily doing things that have led us to the current place we are at.

The wars, the economics, all have to do with their "work".

Even when we had a great economy thanks to the internet boom during the Clinton years...congress and the President were busy enriching themselves and their cronies the whole time.

Barry-xlovecam · 08-04-2015, 09:10 AM

@robbie: I don't see the "great conspiracy" to rip off the American public I see the work of fools borrowing money to cover their fuck ups in basic economic policy. If you look at the big percentage increases notwithstanding wars they were to cover the aftermaths of war spending -- war related recessions. Reagan's recession (1981) was inherited from Nixon and Carter -- the post Vietnam War and the Oil Shock economic wars that followed. Obama inherited a recession from G.W. Bush's crash of 2007 resulting from the most recent Middle Eastern Wars.

This is why I say global trade and less military conflict is good. You don't bomb your trading partners

There is little we can do but either ignore or war with people like ISIS (ISIL Daesh) -- it is a moral and political decision. We have to protect global trading partners like the Gulf oil producing states -- it is in world economic interest. Without oil we grind to a halt.

But if this war debt was debt was for R&D we could pay it off if the R&D succeeds in progress. If the R&D expense fails we are just stuck with the debt just like we are now with little benefit.

If we don't accrue any debt, can we as a nation do anything but stagnate? The alternative is to enact a 10% income tax increase on everyone to retire this excessive debt. That's a big tax increase! But that is the alternative ...

Barry-xlovecam · 08-04-2015, 09:50 AM

It would take 10 years paying an additional 10% of your AGI income to reduce the national debt to more workable levels.

That might be like $20K to $40K per AVERAGE taxpayer over 10 years.

I am sure a soak the rich policy would be popular among Trump's angry white man voters ... Sort of paradoxical that a billionaire would advance such a policy ... Trump is not advancing this policy today. He is advancing a xenophobic and anti trade policy -- didn't Hoover do that too with Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 and made the recession of 1929 become the Great Depression. Populists can set themselves up for a fall. My maternal Grandfather lost the family farm in the Great Depression -- ironic as the farmers wanted these tariffs and Hoover pandered to them just like Trump is pandering toward the 'angry white man' today with his anti-immigrant and anti-trade rhetoric.

Robbie · 08-04-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

@robbie: I don't see the "great conspiracy" to rip off the American public I see the work of fools borrowing money to cover their fuck ups in basic economic policy.

It's no "conspiracy" nor are they fools.

They are very smart and know exactly what they are doing. It's "business as usual" with unlimited funds to hand out in the way of contracts to the military industrial complex and every "program" that they can think of.

People get filthy rich from it. And IF anything they do actually helps the American people...it's totally unintentional.

It's the normal way in Washington D.C. (deficit spending).

That's why every President that I can remember has campaigned saying that "Washington is broke and I'll fix it".
Then they get into office and...business as usual.

And look where it's landed our country. War after war after war. Occupying other countries. Invading them without declaring war. National Debt at 18 trillion and growing.
Jobs lost to other countries. Lowest percentage of adults in the work force. More people on foodstamps than ever before. Getting searched at airports. Police militarized and killing unarmed citizens.

No, there isn't a "conspiracy". And the lifetime bureaucrats who live like Kings and Queens are not "fools" either. They know exactly what they are doing and the federal gravy train just keeps on rolling even though the country is in horrible debt.

Robbie · 08-04-2015, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

He is advancing a xenophobic and anti trade policy -- didn't Hoover do that too with Smoot?Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 and made the recession of 1929 become the Great Depression.

Uh...the link you gave says this very clearly:
"However, the general view is that while it had negative results, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was not one of the main causes of the Great Depression because foreign trade was only a small sector of the U.S. economy."

Also the world was much different in 1930.

In 2015 the world needs us far more than we need them. That is what Trump has been saying in his speeches.
He's not wanting to isolate us. He's saying that his team of negotiators have the experience and skill to play all of OUR cards in trade deal negotiations instead of making bad deal after bad deal as the amateurs in Washington D.C. have been doing for decades.

Paul Markham · 08-05-2015, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Don't buy US debt ...

The US can sell debt -- why? If the problem is so,so,so critical:

Why can the USA continue to sell it's debt and primarily to US private citizens and US corporations?
Why do foreign central banks own (and continue to buy) a strong stake in the US debt?
If our debt is so fuckin' bad why does the world buy it up?

You should try to think past silly internet charts ...

The same reason they bought prime mortgage debts. And we all know how that ended.

It all goes well, like a train until it hits the wall. The trick is jumping ship before it hits the wall.

Paul Markham · 08-05-2015, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

********** I think you can add Pres. Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Obama to the pic of Bush 2.

And then add in every slimeball Senator and Congressman who have turned our country into a huge funnel for money to the military industrial complex and worldwide wars with huge debt.

I personally don't think that ANY of these "business as usual" politicians are what we need. Republican and Democrat politicians in power have held hands for 50 years to fuck this country up.

I think we should REALLY "clean house".

Their ideas on both sides of the aisle are the same exact ones that we keep trading back and forth every 8 years or so. And they never work.

Agree for many countries in the West. The problem is how to fix it and stay in power.

US debt is 71.8%, according to the CIA World Factbook, or 104.5%, according to the IMF

UK debt is 90.6% of GDP. Both pulled from Google so might need adjusting.

To halve them over 10% years requires we pay more taxes. Or everyone lives on less. Which damages spending which has a knock on effect Or we import less and export more. Which means few can fill their homes or wardrobes with un-needed stuff.

Quote:

"However, the general view is that while it had negative results, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff was not one of the main causes of the Great Depression because foreign trade was only a small sector of the U.S. economy."

Also the world was much different in 1930.

In 2015 the world needs us far more than we need them. That is what Trump has been saying in his speeches.
He's not wanting to isolate us. He's saying that his team of negotiators have the experience and skill to play all of OUR cards in trade deal negotiations instead of making bad deal after bad deal as the amateurs in Washington D.C. have been doing for decades.

Spot on.
The West has a huge card to play with the Third world. But as much as you sell, or we will block goods. Now look around you and find a "Made in......" label. Half or more of them will disappear or cost more, because they were made in the US by someone on a Western wage. Is consumerist Western Culture ready for that?

A phrase I heard a long time ago. "If you desire changes, one must first change."

08-04-2015, 07:43 AM	#51
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	********** I think you can add Pres. Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, and Obama to the pic of Bush 2. And then add in every slimeball Senator and Congressman who have turned our country into a huge funnel for money to the military industrial complex and worldwide wars with huge debt. I personally don't think that ANY of these "business as usual" politicians are what we need. Republican and Democrat politicians in power have held hands for 50 years to fuck this country up. I think we should REALLY "clean house". Their ideas on both sides of the aisle are the same exact ones that we keep trading back and forth every 8 years or so. And they never work. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

08-04-2015, 08:16 AM	#52
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percent Good Gods the facts hurt :P

08-04-2015, 09:10 AM	#54
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	@robbie: I don't see the "great conspiracy" to rip off the American public I see the work of fools borrowing money to cover their fuck ups in basic economic policy. If you look at the big percentage increases notwithstanding wars they were to cover the aftermaths of war spending -- war related recessions. Reagan's recession (1981) was inherited from Nixon and Carter -- the post Vietnam War and the Oil Shock economic wars that followed. Obama inherited a recession from G.W. Bush's crash of 2007 resulting from the most recent Middle Eastern Wars. This is why I say global trade and less military conflict is good. You don't bomb your trading partners There is little we can do but either ignore or war with people like ISIS (ISIL Daesh) -- it is a moral and political decision. We have to protect global trading partners like the Gulf oil producing states -- it is in world economic interest. Without oil we grind to a halt. But if this war debt was debt was for R&D we could pay it off if the R&D succeeds in progress. If the R&D expense fails we are just stuck with the debt just like we are now with little benefit. If we don't accrue any debt, can we as a nation do anything but stagnate? The alternative is to enact a 10% income tax increase on everyone to retire this excessive debt. That's a big tax increase! But that is the alternative ...

08-04-2015, 09:50 AM	#55
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	It would take 10 years paying an additional 10% of your AGI income to reduce the national debt to more workable levels. That might be like $20K to $40K per AVERAGE taxpayer over 10 years. I am sure a soak the rich policy would be popular among Trump's angry white man voters ... Sort of paradoxical that a billionaire would advance such a policy ... Trump is not advancing this policy today. He is advancing a xenophobic and anti trade policy -- didn't Hoover do that too with Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act of 1930 and made the recession of 1929 become the Great Depression. Populists can set themselves up for a fall. My maternal Grandfather lost the family farm in the Great Depression -- ironic as the farmers wanted these tariffs and Hoover pandered to them just like Trump is pandering toward the 'angry white man' today with his anti-immigrant and anti-trade rhetoric.