How do you think the govt will road tax electric cars

[crockett]

Electric cars are a problem for both states and the federal govt in the form of road taxes. Both the state and federal govt heavily tax gas/diesel for funds to maintain our roads and highways..

Electric cars like them or not are the future, so how do you think the govt will manage to get their road tax in the future? Right now electric cars are driving tax free as far as road tax goes, so we all know that won't last..

So what do you think they will do?

[Sly]

Someone will label it the ********** Tax and all hell will break loose at GFY.

[kane]

I won't be shocked to see some kind of annual tax based on how many miles you drive

[dyna mo]

Electric cars are the future, what does that mean? Certainly they will factor in to the future but they are hardly THE future. As much as I like them.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by kane

I won't be shocked to see some kind of annual tax based on how many miles you drive

Probably this. If you own an electric car you'll have to file it along with your taxes and they'll tax you based on your mileage.

In any case, you know they will find away to fuck us somehow

[slapass]

I think the 1% that is being lost is probably acceptable to support a new technology.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Electric cars are the future, what does that mean? Certainly they will factor in to the future but they are hardly THE future. As much as I like them.

Battery storage is now advancing at a rate much higher than expected.. Think in the past we used to have HArd Drives which were measured in megabytes.. Today we have we have Terrabytes and that's happened in a fairly short time span.. Say roughly 15 years.

The same thing is going on with battery storage, they are right now making big advancements. Example now they are capable of creating lithium ion storage devices that can store as much as all lithium ion packs in the entire world in 2013. Meaning in 2 years the capacity has grown astronomically.

Storage devices (ie batteries) are the only thing that holds back electric cars from taking over the places of fossil fuel as far as usability.. (The auto manufactures obviously still need to gear up to make that happen). In the very near future, electric cars will have the same distance capibilities if not longer distance as today gasoline powered cars..

It's coming fast and and they will overtake gas powered cars on the roads.. It's pretty much a given at this point. The only question, is how soon..

[dyna mo]

I entirely disagree. There have been incremental advances in battery tech. I'm a HUGE fan of the technology and keep my finger on the pulse of breakthroughs in this industry. There are none. Have been none in quite a while.. And none are on the horizon. Combined with e simple fact that the future is thoroughly unpredictable.

[Rochard]

Obviously they will tax us based on our mileage.

As for batteries and technology, we are pretty close to where we need to be for this to be realistic for most people. Most people drive 400 miles in a day, and even then they stop to take breaks for food and to pee and what not. If your car can drive 400 miles in a single charge, and takes half an hour to charge up.... You can dive 400 miles, stop to pee, eat, clean the bugs off the windshield, and you are good to go for another 400 miles.

I think electric cars will be much more common in ten years, and gas powered cars will be hard to find in twenty years.

[dyna mo]

Oh, and I predict the government will remove tax incentives AND charge a yearly fee on registration of alternative energy vehicles.

[Imortyl Pussycat]

Originally Posted by crockett

Battery storage is now advancing at a rate much higher than expected.. Think in the past we used to have HArd Drives which were measured in megabytes.. Today we have we have Terrabytes and that's happened in a fairly short time span.. Say roughly 15 years.

The same thing is going on with battery storage, they are right now making big advancements. Example now they are capable of creating lithium ion storage devices that can store as much as all lithium ion packs in the entire world in 2013. Meaning in 2 years the capacity has grown astronomically.

Storage devices (ie batteries) are the only thing that holds back electric cars from taking over the places of fossil fuel as far as usability.. (The auto manufactures obviously still need to gear up to make that happen). In the very near future, electric cars will have the same distance capibilities if not longer distance as today gasoline powered cars..

It's coming fast and and they will overtake gas powered cars on the roads.. It's pretty much a given at this point. The only question, is how soon..

for some reason this post made me think of a dear old friend and former GFYer.
RIP AfterShock

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I entirely disagree. There have been incremental advances in battery tech. I'm a HUGE fan of the technology and keep my finger on the pulse of breakthroughs in this industry. There are none. Have been none in quite a while.. And none are on the horizon. Combined with e simple fact that the future is thoroughly unpredictable.

It's completly untrue to say there hasn't been advances.. They have been dramatically increasing the storage capacities of lithium ion batteries over the last few years..

Hell here is a breakthrough just a few months ago..

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0316113424.htm


I mean shit.. Just visiting Home Depot can show you major advancements in powered battery hand tools. 2 years ago all the drills used 18v batteries.. Now they all have 20v batteries and the batteries are smaller than the previous 18v versions. That is in your hand advancement.. More power storage capacity in a smaller package.

Now a jump from 18v to 20v in 2 years might not sound like a big thing, but keep in mind it took roughly 15 years to go from 12v/14v to 18v.

Claiming they haven't had any breakthroughs would be the same as saying there were no hard drive or computer memory advancements, when we went from having a few 100mbs of storage to gigs and Terrabytes..

[dyna mo]

You can't read. I specifically stated the advances have been incremental. You're fucking deluded if you think major advances in battery tech will first show up at home depot. Jtfc.

[dyna mo]

That link is a principle. Not an application. You need to understand the difference.

[kane]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I entirely disagree. There have been incremental advances in battery tech. I'm a HUGE fan of the technology and keep my finger on the pulse of breakthroughs in this industry. There are none. Have been none in quite a while.. And none are on the horizon. Combined with e simple fact that the future is thoroughly unpredictable.

I wonder if some of this has to do with demand. I know several people who say they won't buy an electric car because they need something with a bigger range. The problem is they are thinking of the 1-2 times a year they take a road trip and not the other 99.9% of the time when the range will never be a problem. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there just like this leading to a limited market for the cars.

If those attitudes change and the cars start to see an increase in demand more companies will start working on battery technology and we could see bigger, better, faster advances.

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Obviously they will tax us based on our mileage.

As for batteries and technology, we are pretty close to where we need to be for this to be realistic for most people. Most people drive 400 miles in a day, and even then they stop to take breaks for food and to pee and what not. If your car can drive 400 miles in a single charge, and takes half an hour to charge up.... You can dive 400 miles, stop to pee, eat, clean the bugs off the windshield, and you are good to go for another 400 miles.

I think electric cars will be much more common in ten years, and gas powered cars will be hard to find in twenty years.

Most people drive 400 miles a day? You crazy? Try 40 miles a day.

[MK Ultra]

Government doing what Government does, keeping an eye us.

Oregon preps program to swap mileage tax for gas tax

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) ? Oregon is about to embark on a first-in-the-nation program that aims to charge car owners not for the fuel they use, but for the miles they drive.

Starting July 1, up to 5,000 volunteers in Oregon can sign up to drive with devices that collect data on how much they have driven and where. The volunteers will agree to pay 1.5 cents for each mile traveled on public roads within Oregon, instead of the tax now added when filling up at the pump.

How long before it's no longer voluntary?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by kane

I wonder if some of this has to do with demand. I know several people who say they won't buy an electric car because they need something with a bigger range. The problem is they are thinking of the 1-2 times a year they take a road trip and not the other 99.9% of the time when the range will never be a problem. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there just like this leading to a limited market for the cars.

If those attitudes change and the cars start to see an increase in demand more companies will start working on battery technology and we could see bigger, better, faster advances.

could be. i know a lot of it has to do with how amazingly difficult it all is and the time involved in the process. Elon Musk stated recently (paraphrasing) that he's hopeful a battery tech breakthrough will happen within the next 10-30 years, but he's not counting on it.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Obviously they will tax us based on our mileage.

.

wait, so the government will give out ~$8000 tax credits to buy electric, then turn around and tax the miles on that very car?

Obviously, that makes zero sense.

[EonBlue]

The next big advancement will likely only come when/if superconductors become viable. But that could be a long way off, if ever.

DailyTech - Silver-Doped Superconductor Stores 550,000+ Times Earth's Magnetic Field

In the meantime we still have fossil fuel which is nature's perfectly designed energy storage solution.


.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

You can't read. I specifically stated the advances have been incremental. You're fucking deluded if you think major advances in battery tech will first show up at home depot. Jtfc.

I think it's just obvious that you only want to argue. I clearly said you can go to fucking Home Depot and hold the advancements in your hand. I didn't say anything about major advances showing up at Home Depot.,

The major fucking advancement is the fact that they jumped from 18v to 20v in only 2 years when previously it took ought 15 years to go from 12v to 18. Hell if you look back to the 9v drills it's about 20 years..

You have to be a serious dumb fuck to not understand what I said.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crockett

I think it's just obvious that you only want to argue. I clearly said you can go to fucking Home Depot and hold the advance td in your hand. I didn't say anything about major advances showing up at Home Depot.,

The major fucking advancement is the fact that they jump from 18v to 20v in only 2 years when previously it took ought 15 years to go from 12v to 18.

You have to be a serious dumb fuck to not understand what I said.

heads-up dumbfuck, i answered your fucking OP question, twice. you're the one clinging to your fucked up assumption and continuing to argue about shit that so far over your fucking head you think home depot is the place for showing off battery tech breakthroughs.

and heads-up, dumbfuck, i'll stick with Elon Musk's view, not crockofshitt science dumbfuckery based on what's on sale at the local hardware store.

[Colmike9]

Why not tax the car itself in a big lump sum like they do with the "Gas guzzler tax", which the dealer pays.
Or taxes at charging stations.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by DukeSkywalker

Most people drive 400 miles a day? You crazy? Try 40 miles a day.

Yeah, I wondered about that. I drive 5 kilometres a day on average.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The utility company will install EV battery charging stations that are a tax credit that function for billing purposes like interruptible service meters for air conditioning. The government will tax the power usage of your EV (electric vehicle) charging costs. 33% of road travel may be in EV's 25 years from now.

We will still need roads until cars can fly in 2232 :P -- Jetsons ...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crockett

I think it's just obvious that you only want to argue. I clearly said you can go to fucking Home Depot and hold the advancements in your hand. I didn't say anything about major advances showing up at Home Depot.,

The major fucking advancement is the fact that they jumped from 18v to 20v in only 2 years when previously it took ought 15 years to go from 12v to 18. Hell if you look back to the 9v drills it's about 20 years..

You have to be a serious dumb fuck to not understand what I said.

you dumbfuck, the jump from 18v to 20v is a marketing scheme, they're the same battery.

https://www.google.com/search?q=18v+..._sm=0&ie=UTF-8



crockofshitt science fail

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

Electric cars are a problem for both states and the federal govt in the form of road taxes. Both the state and federal govt heavily tax gas/diesel for funds to maintain our roads and highways..

I'm sure that they will simply put a tax on the amperage at charging stations, just like they do gasoline.

That will work for federal and state roads.

Local roads are funded by local taxes so they won't be hurt by loss of gasoline tax revenue. So if you fully charge your car at home and ride around town you aren't causing a "problem" for the govt.

But once you need to go any real distance on a state or fed hwy you'll probably need to charge a couple of times at least at a public charging station.

Also...there ain't gonna be no electric semi-trucks anytime soon. Those are still gonna run on diesel. And still gonna pay that tax to do it (the one that helps drive fuel costs through the roof and causes inflated prices on everything we buy at the store )

Just with all the goods that are shipped over federal hwy's for instance I'm thinking the money will continue to flow from truckers.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm sure that they will simply put a tax on the amperage at charging stations, just like they do gasoline.

That will work for federal and state roads.

Local roads are funded by local taxes so they won't be hurt by loss of gasoline tax revenue. So if you fully charge your car at home and ride around town you aren't causing a "problem" for the govt.

But once you need to go any real distance on a state or fed hwy you'll probably need to charge a couple of times at least at a public charging station.

Also...there ain't gonna be no electric semi-trucks anytime soon. Those are still gonna run on diesel. And still gonna pay that tax to do it (the one that helps drive fuel costs through the roof and causes inflated prices on everything we buy at the store )

Just with all the goods that are shipped over federal hwy's for instance I'm thinking the money will continue to flow from truckers.

That only works if you charge at a station.. However you can charge electric cars at your house which is what most people likely do.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

you dumbfuck, the jump from 18v to 20v is a marketing scheme, they're the same battery.

https://www.google.com/search?q=18v+..._sm=0&ie=UTF-8



crockofshitt science fail

The voltage is not what the 18v or 20v is about.. It's the storage capacity which raises. Yes the 18v and 20v is a marketing scheme, it's the storage which gets increased and sometimes the size of the storage cell.. Yes if you want to take apart a new 20v battery and place the internals into a 18v housing it will also work.. I used to rebuild my old 14.4 batteries and got 6 years of work out of them using them as a contractor back in the early 2000s.. ( I used to buy the RC car ni cad cells to rebuild my drill batteries)



Just like solar panels.. A 100w panel built today is much smaller than a 100w panel built 5 years ago.. Yet they are still both 100w.

I realize though, this concept is way too much for you to grasp..

[crockett]

Yey look another new battery breakthrough for Dyna Mo to claim never happens...

An MIT battery breakthrough could charge your smartphone in 6 minutes

Li's team's battery is better in every way a consumer could want. Because it relies on aluminum nanoparticles and not the more commonly used graphite to conduct a charge, its energy output and power density far exceed those of typical batteries. Crucially, the new battery can store more electricity in the same amount of space.

[dyna mo]

From that very article-

The only serious problem is that the process would require literal tons of aluminum nanoparticles. While aluminum is cheap in bulk, the process to convert that aluminum into nanoparticles is potentially prohibitively expensive.


Again, it's a principle, not an application.

I'll continue to agree with elon musk science, not Crockett science.

Even if that article was about application, it was after I made the comment that there haven't been batt tech breakthroughs.

Double Crockett fail.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

That only works if you charge at a station.. However you can charge electric cars at your house which is what most people likely do.

That is why I very carefully said in my post that people charging at home are not going to be traveling long distances on Federal Hwy's. So they won't be costing the govt. anything anyway.

But truck drivers are never going to be driving electric semi-trucks. So they will continue to get nailed for fuel tax (and they are the ones who use the Federal Hwy's the most)

Now when a person with an electric car does use the Federal Hwy's they are most likely going enough of a distance where they will have to recharge and then get taxed.

But I'm repeating myself because I already said all of this in my last post.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by crockett

That only works if you charge at a station.. However you can charge electric cars at your house which is what most people likely do.

actually, false...

Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits - WSJ

The trend has caught the attention of Chief Executive Elon Musk. During the company’s annual shareholder meeting in June, he indicated the Superchargers are too often being used by people who are driving around town instead of those needing energy for longer road trips, creating lines of people waiting for juice.

“There are a few people who are quite aggressively using it for local supercharging,” he said. “We’ll sort of send them just a reminder note that it’s cool to do this occasionally, but it’s meant to be a long-distance thing.”

why would people charge at home when tesla is giving it away? simple economics.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crockett

The voltage is not what the 18v or 20v is about.. It's the storage capacity which raises. Yes the 18v and 20v is a marketing scheme, it's the storage which gets increased and sometimes the size of the storage cell.. Yes if you want to take apart a new 20v battery and place the internals into a 18v housing it will also work.. I used to rebuild my old 14.4 batteries and got 6 years of work out of them using them as a contractor back in the early 2000s.. ( I used to buy the RC car ni cad cells to rebuild my drill batteries)



Just like solar panels.. A 100w panel built today is much smaller than a 100w panel built 5 years ago.. Yet they are still both 100w.

I realize though, this concept is way too much for you to grasp..

crockett, knock it off. you're trying to exclaim this is over my head while you reveal a complete lack of understanding of electricity. crockett, battery storage is measured in Amp hours, the 18v and 20v cordless drill batteries both measure 2 Amp hours. you fell for the marketing gimmick, not me.

[Axeman]

I just love threads where Crockett gets his ass owned over and over again.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Axeman

I just love threads where Crockett gets his ass owned over and over again.

yes its hard to take him serious when he doesnt know his own limitations. a key to intelligence is knowing your unknowns. there are known knowns, & there are known unknowns. crockett unknowns his unknowns, reflected by his false omniscience.

& PS, the thread is irrelevent because king oil will not be replaced in our lifetimes so all of this is moot.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

From that very article-

The only serious problem is that the process would require literal tons of aluminum nanoparticles. While aluminum is cheap in bulk, the process to convert that aluminum into nanoparticles is potentially prohibitively expensive.


Again, it's a principle, not an application.

I'll continue to agree with elon musk science, not Crockett science.

Even if that article was about application, it was after I made the comment that there haven't been batt tech breakthroughs.

Double Crockett fail.

Anything to let you live in denial..

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

actually, false...

Tesla Owners Frustrated by Recharge Waits - WSJ



why would people charge at home when tesla is giving it away? simple economics.

He shouldn't be giving it away. That is a mistake on his part. He should charge a flat rate to use the Chargers, I've seen chargers like that at a Sam's club in Austin. You had to pay to use it, granted it wasn't much but still.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

yes its hard to take him serious when he doesnt know his own limitations. a key to intelligence is knowing your unknowns. there are known knowns, & there are known unknowns. crockett unknowns his unknowns, reflected by his false omniscience.

& PS, the thread is irrelevent because king oil will not be replaced in our lifetimes so all of this is moot.

You are about as irrelevant as your post.. Oil has had an extremely short life as far as being "king" of transportation. Steam had a longer life as king Compared to oil..

The Ford Model T was still in production 100 years ago and it marked the beginning of the oil revolution.. There are people alive today who were alive at a time when motor vehicles were not a common sight.

Oil will be replaced as the so called king in less than 30 years. Electric is coming on just as fast as oil did at it's start.. Oil will at best have a 150 year run.. Oil didn't "instantly" become king of transpiration, it took time, just like electric is slowly taking over..

You maybe an ancient old fart ready to kick the bucket in 30 years, but I'm pretty certain I'll be around to see it..

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Axeman

I just love threads where Crockett gets his ass owned over and over again.

The only people that ever whine about my posts, are conservatards. Considering the IQ levels of the average conservatards around here.. I can see why you feel the need to jump on my coat tails..

[2MuchMark]

Here's an idea that I'm sure will go nowhere fast. They should RAISE the taxes on gasoline cars.

Taxing electric cars is stupid. It impedes progress and punishes the wrong sector of drivers. Gasoline drivers should be taxed as a "penalty" because they contribute to pollution.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by **********

Here's an idea that I'm sure will go nowhere fast. They should RAISE the taxes on gasoline cars.

Taxing electric cars is stupid. It impedes progress and punishes the wrong sector of drivers. Gasoline drivers should be taxed as a "penalty" because they contribute to pollution.

Punishing people for using gasoline, MP, that's one of your more elitist views/comments.

Besides, it appears you and crockett do not know how electricity is generated. It's primarily generated by fossil fuels.

[RyuLion]

Originally Posted by Sly

Someone will label it the ********** Tax and all hell will break loose at GFY.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm sure that they will simply put a tax on the amperage at charging stations, just like they do gasoline.

That will work for federal and state roads.

They might, but I doubt it. Here in Quebec anyway, the cost to full charge an electric car is about $3.00, vs about $70.00 to fuel a car. The money the government makes from gas far exceeds that of EV's right now.

And as Crockett says, most charge at home. I myself always charge at home now, but still charge when I'm out shopping or whatever if I know the trip home will deplete my battery.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Local roads are funded by local taxes so they won't be hurt by loss of gasoline tax revenue. So if you fully charge your car at home and ride around town you aren't causing a "problem" for the govt.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Also...there ain't gonna be no electric semi-trucks anytime soon. Those are still gonna run on diesel.

Sorry! You dun goofed. There is already an electric truck

VIA Motors | Extended-Range Electric Truck 402HP/100mpg

and more on the way. Electric has more energy than Diesel, and considering the larger size and extra space for batter placement, EV trucks make a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Robbie

And still gonna pay that tax to do it (the one that helps drive fuel costs through the roof and causes inflated prices on everything we buy at the store )

If goods and produce were shipped around the country in EV trucks it might lower the cost of those items.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just with all the goods that are shipped over federal hwy's for instance I'm thinking the money will continue to flow from truckers.

Thankfully there are advancements in EV technology pretty often now so maybe soon, those truckers will be riding along on electrons instead of Carbons. 10-4 good electric buddy!

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by crockett

He shouldn't be giving it away. That is a mistake on his part. .

Actually I love the idea. It's a fantastic marketing gimmick. "Here's a car, it's electric, blah blah blah, and oh yeah, pay $0.00 for energy too". Just incredible.

Originally Posted by crockett

The only people that ever whine about my posts, are conservatards. Considering the IQ levels of the average conservatards around here.. I can see why you feel the need to jump on my coat tails..

Next round is on me.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Punishing people for using gasoline, MP, that's one of your more elitist views/comments.

Besides, it appears you and crockett do not know how electricity is generated. It's primarily generated by fossil fuels.

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.7%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.4%
Wind = 4.4%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

Of the 2 fossil fuels we use to generate electric in this country, only one is really harmful. Which is coal.. Coal might be the largest single fuel type, it is still not the majority and it's slowly being phased out..

Here in Colorado for example they use a lot of coal but they were already moving away from coal with out any Federal govt intervention. In fact if Obama's new coal regulation were to be put into effect, Colorado would not have to change their current plans as they were already on plan to be where the proposed regulations want them to be..

Coal just like Gasoline is on the way out.. In fact the only reason we aren't phasing it out fast, is because too many corrupt polititions are in the pockets of the coal industry.

Anyway.. Burning coal to generate electric to power electric cars, is still cleaner than burning coal and burning gas to power cars..

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by **********

Here's an idea that I'm sure will go nowhere fast. They should RAISE the taxes on gasoline cars.

Taxing electric cars is stupid. It impedes progress and punishes the wrong sector of drivers. Gasoline drivers should be taxed as a "penalty" because they contribute to pollution.

That is irrelevant to the OP.

Imagine the future and no gasoline cars, just electric ones.

Now answer the question.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crockett

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
Biomass = 1.7%
Geothermal = 0.4%
Solar = 0.4%
Wind = 4.4%
Petroleum = 1%
Other gases < 1%

Of the 2 fossil fuels we use to generate electric in this country, only one is really harmful. Which is coal.. Coal might be the largest single fuel type, it is still not the majority and it's slowly being phased out..

Here in Colorado for example they use a lot of coal but they were already moving away from coal with out any Federal govt intervention. In fact if Obama's new coal regulation were to be put into effect, Colorado would not have to change their current plans as they were already on plan to be where the proposed regulations want them to be..

Coal just like Gasoline is on the way out.. In fact the only reason we aren't phasing it out fast, is because too many corrupt polititions are in the pockets of the coal industry.

Anyway.. Burning coal to generate electric to power electric cars, is still cleaner than burning coal and burning gas to power cars..

coal is being phased out?
natural gas production does not harm the environment?
what planet are you posting from?

because here on earth in America we are mining coal in record #s and selling the shittiest of it to the Europeans. and natural gas drilling, extracting and transporting creates huge amounts of methane. you do know about methane right?

[Best-In-BC]

The government can create charge stations and earn the rev that way.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The utility company will install EV battery charging stations that are a tax credit that function for billing purposes like interruptible service meters for air conditioning. The government will tax the power usage of your EV (electric vehicle) charging costs. 33% of road travel may be in EV's 25 years from now.

We will still need roads until cars can fly in 2232 :P -- Jetsons ...

The most likely outcome.

But in the boonies for sure and probably elsewhere freelancers will sell electricity marginally above their cost using plugin adapters.