Paul Markham

Not in the way you first thought.

Travel back 20 years. No Internet of any influence and if you want sex and don't have a girlfriend, you have to go and get one. Bar, disco, pubs, malls, supermarkets all great hunting grounds for the Male of the Species who looks OK and can walk up to a girl and start a conversation. It was that or a hooker or your hand.

For maybe 12 years it changed little. Then Dating Sites made the whole thing of getting laid easier. To 2015 and its never been easier to get laid. There's even apps that tell you where your closest free fuck is. So why bother with Tubes, when Blendr dleivers the real thing? And once a guy finds a permanent friend with benefits. He's not going to be surfing Pornhub, or clicking on ads. Unless it's to find the next dating site.

Think of it as a slow gradual change, as 65 year olds fall off the tree, are the younger blokes not even replacing those leaving? Think of it as a trend over years, not months. How are traffic and click stats performing over the last 2-3 years?

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Cyber Fucker

I don't think so that dating sites have much to do with the porn decline. Dating sites existed for long along with porn. It's more like now it's easy to get porn you like for free so people don't pay for it, they just take it free.

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mineistaken

Only the small minority of porn watchers can exchange watching porn for real dating. And do it continuously. Most of them still need porn.
Completely not the reason.
Reason is simple - free porn.

Roald

Not really no

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SilentKnight

Where's the empirical evidence that porn is on the decline?

Paul Markham

Dating real women hasn't impacted porn as much as free porn has. What I was thinking was the future growth of traffic to free site. Yes Dating Agencies, Lonely Hearts columns, private ads, were around prior to the Internet. Online for a long time.

Their impact now is bigger than it's ever been. So has or will the ease at how a guy can find the real thing, and the culture of the young. Going to make our core market of men who can't get any. Smaller?

I don't agree with the concept of only a small number of men can get laid today outside a steady relationship. Lot easier than it was back in my day.

The evidence I found was in traffic to Tubes, maybe someone with an account can go back a few years and get more. Maybe those buying and selling traffic can wade in.

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EddyTheDog

You cant post in this thread if I don't have your CC number...

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Paul Markham

I checked a few over the last 2 years, seems the big ones are losing traffic. To smaller ones, or a changing market?

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potter

It's not, it's more prevalent and bigger than it ever has in history. But some people on this forum have not adapted to the changes in the industry and are losing money because of it. Thus they feel porn is on a decline when the reality is there is more money being made in porn than there ever has.

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wehateporn

Sales graph of PMT

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wehateporn

I hope I don't bring myself bad luck, but my $/click has been improving year on year

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Barry-xlovecam

Porn, pay-site porn, has declined for two reasons as I see it;

1. pay-site porn allowed their content to be downloaded with unprotected copyright and the content was given away free in a traffic network scheme to sell advertising.
2. pay-site porn refused to adapt, has not yet died, but has not innovated to protect its copyright properties.

If you want to blame someone -- look in the mirror. Pay-site porn set it self up and with DCMA schemes puts band-aids on cancer tumors.

We have always streamed our cam content. However, the public free chat content can be bootlegged (*stolen [if you will]) but the real content we sell is sold in private shows ''mano a mano'' (1on1). The real hardcore content cannot be downloaded en mass and used for a advertising traffic scheme.

Self deception does not change the truth ...

Best-In-BC

I dont think tubes are the reason for the decline ether, we dont work as a community anymore, greed took over and destroyed what was here a year or two after the market crash, people have let thousands of profitable sites go and die, this industry makes no sense to me, seems to attract the most delusional people next to pyramid schemes. Like fuck, so many people here speak as if they know while knowing shit.

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Roald

Sorry but not working as a community and greed have always been a big part of this industry. Nothing new here ;)

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celandina

Same shit everywhere, every tube every site... Really tiring no innovation...

i am a " lesbian sub dom fan" and it takes me 60 pages on xhamster to find ONE clip which turns my crank....the rest is all the same shit which turns me off.


There is NO talent no imagination in the industry today... Its sooooo sad.

bobr

Another reason for Decline is Customers are now looking for more options to pay along with Crypto-Currencies.

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The Porn Nerd

Do not fool yourself.
Your Premium private cam shows content can be stolen, too.

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DVTimes

In the last year or so we have seen some big data hacks (Ashley Madison and others).

If I was a customer now thinking of putting my details in any site, I would think twice.

After all no one wants to find that people know they have joined a porn site.

Its important now to ensure people how safe they are joining your site.

This should be made very clear to your customers. It should be part of your promotion too.

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Barry-xlovecam

How much can you afford to steal at $200/HR?

Soon Joe-dumb-shit will have to use desktop capture with ffmpeg -- the broadcast will be in MP4 EME.

You still letting your customers download your content and post it?

Roald

doesn't matter much, it's about the live interaction anyways.

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Barry-xlovecam

Shhhh ...

SilentKnight

That's some solid and exhaustive research and study, right there.

Paul Markham

No doubt there are more people than ever before consuming porn, so on that side you're right. The industry is huge.

The decline is only in the revenue. Revenue per surfer is what? I'm talking porn paysite/Cam sites. Dating is a "Social" industry. Even though many porn people have moved into it.

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Paul Markham

Giving away free porn to 1,000 to get a $30 join, giving half that to "marketing". Started long ago. The only limit of what everyone gave away was cost. Remember the threads about a Gallery on The Hun costing more in B/W than it brought in sales. (1-100 was clicks, 1-1,000 are consumers).

Protecting copyright for 99% of the industry is pointless. It's just a brand and the product has little to define it from all the others. Porn has always been like this, it's people doing sex.

How can a porn product adapt, that can't be copied? The $1,000,000,000 question.

Roald is right. "it's about the live interaction anyways." Live interaction with who, some girl working in a studio in the Third world who could be anyone. Or someone you fell you know because she has an online persona?

Whales have to be made to fall in love, not hoped to. This to me is the future, small independent girls who can do what we have done and paid them a pittance for.

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Paul Markham

You are welcome to present yours.

If I has an account on Alexa, I would present what I found. That was more Tube sites falling in traffic than those gaining.

Traffic buyers/sellers are prices rising or falling over all, is it getting slower to get clicks than it used to be, harder to get sales that it used to be, etc?

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TheLegacy

Dating sites may be in decline simply due to the recent news announcing that over 95% of females are fake. Few if any dating sites have real women in your area and bots or call center text programs give a sense of being real - but in the end - male users aren't to me giving up on porn - more than dating sites for that reason. If there is a decline of porn then my opinion is that it's the same ol same ol. Kindly of like buying one playboy doesn't last you a lifetime of pleasure. There really isn't anything out there to capture the wow factor anymore as people have seen boobs etc. before - same action - its the feeling of the video that they're watching

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pornmasta

i'm not sure of that

pornmasta

for me the problem is the cost of the bandwidth :p
the bandwidth is cheap, so there is free sites...
expensive ? you have to play.

signupdamnit

I wish I got into dating sites more circa 2001. But I don't think dating sites are responsible for the decline. In fact dating sites are also going through a decline right now almost like porn has been declining since 2007. Guys never can get enough unless they are movie stars with seven figure bank accounts. And even then they will still probably look at some porn sometime.

I think it's mostly all the free content. That isn't just tubes and file lockers though. It's also social media.

BTW when I saw this topic I was expecting it to be a bumped post from circa 2008.

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signupdamnit

In the early days more people thought long term about things to some extent. Sure they were still banging cards and screwing people over with dialers but for the most part those guys expected to still be in the business to some degree five years out. It was just stupidity and ignorance where they did the dumb crap.

Over time things started to change where most players were in it for a short term cash grab. They don't give a crap what happens or if two years down the road it triggered government legislation, etc. They didn't plan on being around anyway. Porn was just a means to an end. Grab all the money you can as quickly as possible and take it to use it for something else. The early tube players were probably the height of this.

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SilentKnight

I'm not the one who started a thread boldly stating 'Porn is on the decline...' (yadda, yadda).

You did.

I don't need to present anything. I was questioning YOUR methodology for coming to the above conclusion.

Barry-xlovecam

Actually, MindGeek(Manwin) announced that they would have a $9.99/ a month price point on a Netflix like platform. If they use MP4 Dash EME then they can stream newer content from their paysites' inventories -- (encrypted and copyright protected to most unsophisticated non-techie users).

Gotcha, the $29.95 join becomes legacy.

Ironic to have to copycat this -- snooze you lose

Don't be so bitter Paul -- time waits for no man and I always remind myself that yesterday's hero is tomorrow's shit-head. We all walk the line ...

Nothing lasts online more than a few years these days -- you have to continually evolve, innovate and roll with the punches. Unless, you own the market: then you have a ticket to fuck everyone over (so long as you can keep your throne).

The AM hack and revelations of all the scamming and bots pretending to be women on dating sites may lead to a decline in dating revenue. Our girls get on cam and are real ... Paul, Eastern European women -- really? Why did you move to the Czech Republic from the UK? Hell, I am going to put Indian, South Asian and Chinese cam girls live -- all pussy is pink when you turn it inside out and for every seat there is an ass

Paul Markham

If the price of B/W in 2000 was as low as 2008. There would be a lot fewer of people in the business now.

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Paul Markham

At that price it's a bargain. And generating their own traffic probably very profitable.

Can people download it fast enough to buy a years supply for $9.99?

Gotcha, the $29.95 join becomes legacy.

No way am I bitter. I lasted 3 decades, longer than most. I started the thread after chatting with a friend who says traffic to Tubes, and onto clicks, is a lot slower these days. He buys traffic.

Came here to shoot stills, for me girls who can't speak the language of the consumer aren't as good on video or live as those who can.

Girls who can generate their own traffic via their own personality are doing better than studio girls. One I know can afford to hire a professional porn shooter to generate content of her. It's a minority, which is good for them and you.

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geedub

Your decline in adult is your fault, no one else. There is more traffic and more sales happening now than ever, there are more billing options for countries we were never able to bill before and so forth. So I repeat myself. Your decline in adult is your own fault.

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Barry-xlovecam

They worked for a lot less than UK girls and they were in greater availability.

I know because my first live cam site used all USA/Canadian camgirls and we were priced out of and overwhelmed in the market by the Eastern European performer pool. So, I had to switch allegiances to continue in the cam business ... The rest is history ...

One thing that is true about porn, cams and even dating: There are known favorites but also what I call "fresh meat." Fresh Meat is the life of this business.


New turn ons sell out fast then flicker out and the fame passes on to the next new turn ons ... So, you can try to live on fame and glory, the ''porn star'' as an example --or: Keep introducing new talent to keep the buyer coming back for more. That is why we do millions a month and work with studios -- a constant flow of new talent and a few long term favorites thrown into the mix. It just business, and business that is working out in the webcam business.

But back to the instant topic of this thread;

The dating sites may have been the challenge that Yahoo! Chat (and others similar) could not overcome and subsequently folded. In reality, the horn dogs fap to a boner (probably at a free tube these days) then go cyber sex the Filipino chat bots at the dating site (where they a free member) then the bot (affiliate in fake skirts) takes them to some cam site. They find there some hottie on cam that they beat their meat to begging for a freebie. They shoot off on their leg, wipe up, go to bed and get up in the morning to work their shift job -- that is 97% to 99% of today's traffic.

I know who butters my bread -- the ''free sites'' can have that 97%.

I want, and cater to, the 3% with some real money to spend.

sandman!

nope

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Paul Markham

We weren't the first and the price we paid was the same as the UK. The quality was higher and availability. For stills only.

As it was ours. Still the stars who viewers feel they know are always the winners. It's about marketing a product with an identity.


Girls only have to have a real identity better than the opposition to gain more. They only need to stars in the eyes of the consumer.

There was a pornstars cam site. The girls found working for it earned them less, but contributed to the identity building. We couldn't get those girls, so we found them before they became well know. New talent always replaces old talent.

I'm pointing out a trend in the moving market that might be hard to over come.

The foundations of our industry has always been single & married guys who don't get laid enough. I look around and see kids dating at an earlier age, women more sexually demanding, and dating sites connecting them.

The shoot off and go to bed sector maybe shrinking.

The only proof I found was Tubes getting less traffic and someone who buys traffic says percentage of Tube surfers clicking on adverts getting worse.

We need people with up to date info to come in and offer stats.

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adultchatpay

I think users are more into interaction where they can mostly get when joining a dating site.

JFK

Really ?

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Paul Markham

Agree.

Free porn has devastated paid porn. We may have as little as 5% of the revenue that was once here. Different people will have different views and different time frame references. The only question is whether it's 5% or 10% of the glory days.

The ease at which a man can find a real person online to have sex or a relationship with, has to have an effect on sales. Even if browsing Tubes, those likely to buy instead of getting a real person has to be less.

What is true is it's never been so hard to sell. The problem used to be getting published.

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The Porn Nerd

The decline of porn is a silly discussion.
The only "decline" is in people's imaginations, hard work and persistence.

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BigFurry

Just because you and some skillful people still do good doesn't mean there's no decline. You might have 3 times the profits today if there were no tubes.

I don't think dating sites are to blame though. Not directly anyway.

Indirectly they might play a role, as the tubes make a lot of money off the dating ads, while they get the free traffic off the content that paysites give them for free. So basically the high-paying (often scam-like) dating offers help the tube sites be profitable and flood the net with more and more free porn.

I have all the respect for real dating sites like PlentyOfFish and Match.com, but those advertising on porn sites are often shady I feel. Look at AshleyMadison, it was one of the few that actually looked legit, and even that one turned out to be a scam.

Rochard

Dating sites have nothing to do with the decline of porn sites.

Porn sites are for people who want instant gratification and want to get off right now. Dating sites are for people who want to meet other people; Perhaps to hook up "shortly" but more likely to meet someone to "hook up with at a later date".

The decline of porn sites is because of the tube sites, plain and simple. Fifteen years ago we were concerned about TGPs giving away too much content, and now we have tube sites handing out all of our content for free. Why pay to see fifty photos when you can jerk off to a fifteen minute video for free?

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Best-In-BC

There was always free porn, but when all the pros sell out cause they had to work and big guys were allowed to steal with no repercussion

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The Porn Nerd

I am SO SICK of this bullshit argument, repeated like a mantra by seemingly everyone. WHY PAY WHEN YOU CAN GET IT FOR FREE???

(I've gone over the bottled water analogy enough times yet people still fail to grasp it so I won't go there again this time.)

Ask yourself this ONE question people: If porn (paysites) are in fact DEAD then why - WHY??? - are so many companies still opening paysites?

Jesus, the reason this industry is in 'decline' is because it's filled with fucktards who cannot think clearly and have their heads up their asses.

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KillerK

The industry is in a decline, the average webmaster doesn't make shit for sales. The only people making real $$$ are people with a large tube site.

Try to make a blog and post photos of hot women and link to paysites. You will not make enough to pay your bills doing that.

Penny24Seven

yeah you nailed it LOL dumbass. There is no one reason for the decline. There are tons of reasons. Some made a huge dent and others not so much but this was just funny

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