Woman Shoots At Home Depot Shoplifter

[Sloane]

Detroit Home Depot shooting: bystander fires at shoplifter

Licensed concealed weapon owner fires several shots at shoplifter in Home Depot car park.

[bronco67]

So do you want to be in the Home Depot parking lot when every concealed carry jerkoff who thinks they're Wyatt Earp starts popping off rounds at someone who stole a 2 by 4?

Do you want to be in a bar full of people scared of their own shadows who need to carry guns, when a fight breaks out and everyone draws their weapon?

Or in a dark movie theater when the rare occurrence of a mad gunman opens fire, and everyone starts shooting blindly at what they think might be the gunman -- but is just another person shooting?

Answer that.

[sandman!]

yes she is an idiot

[Rob]

This DUI offender had 8 previous DUI convictions and ended up killing an entire family. Following your logic, all people who drive a vehicle or drink alcohol are family killers.

Repeat DUI offender involved in crash that killed family

[crockett]

Originally Posted by sandman!

yes she is an idiot

...and she can legally carry a gun.. Isn't life grand.


Hopefully the woman is convicted of a felony over this and loses her right to own and or carry a gun.

[PaulBaker]

Originally Posted by Rob

This DUI offender had 8 previous DUI convictions and ended up killing an entire family. Following your logic, all people who drive a vehicle or drink alcohol are family killers. :help

I love how you guys justify this stuff.

Out of curiosity how do you justify a kid shooting an 8 year girl over a puppy?

edition.cnn.com/2015/10/08/us/girl-killed-puppy-in-tennessee/

America, the only 'civilized' country that puts a misguided notion of freedom before the safety of their own children.

Americans think Aussies are stupid for having a law that requires guns to be locked up with ammo stored separately.
Aussies think Americans are stupid for allowing a situation where kids shoot kids.

[MetaMan]

Home Depot should be banned. They create a dangerous situation for the public if people shoplift.

[Rochard]

This is the problem with "average" people carrying firearms. You can't pull out your firearm and start shooting because someone was caught shoplifting.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is the problem with "average" people carrying firearms. You can't pull out your firearm and start shooting because someone was caught shoplifting.

It would seem to me that you can and in fact she did. If only someone else had a gun also they could have shot at her before she shot at the shoplifter.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is the problem with "average" people carrying firearms. You can't pull out your firearm and start shooting because someone was caught shoplifting.

Well how do you expect people to think when a cop can shoot a guy to death for stealing cigars?

Monkey see, monkey do.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

It would seem to me that you can and in fact she did. If only someone else had a gun also they could have shot at her before she shot at the shoplifter.

You sure can shoot your firearm at Home Depot. You can also be arrested for it. It seems police are considering firing charges.

Even the article states multiple firearms instructors saying you cannot pull out your handgun and shoot at shoplifters. The article says:

"It's my worst nightmare as a [concealed pistol licence] instructor," Doreen Hankins told the Detroit Free Press. "You have to know the entire situation before you pull that handgun out. And I don't see that a shoplifter at Home Depot fills any of those criteria."
Ms Hankins and other firearms instructors told the newspaper that concealed weapon license holders should only pull their guns if someone is in imminent danger of death or serious injury, including a sexual assault. Those who draw their pieces too quickly and frivolously fire at people can face serious felony charges, from the reckless use of a firearm to assault.

You cannot shoot someone for shoplifting.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Well how do you expect people to think when a cop can shoot a guy to death for stealing cigars?

Monkey see, monkey do.

The kids wasn't shot because he stole cigars. He was shot for attacking a police officer. If you attack an armed police officer, you might get shot.

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by Rob

This DUI offender had 8 previous DUI convictions and ended up killing an entire family. Following your logic, all people who drive a vehicle or drink alcohol are family killers.

Repeat DUI offender involved in crash that killed family

Viva Illegal Immigracion!

[Nitzer Ebb]

There are white people living in Detroit?

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is the problem with "average" people carrying firearms. You can't pull out your firearm and start shooting because someone was caught shoplifting.

The average person with a concealed carry permit doesnt do this. She is well below average.

[RandyRandy]

You've got three options:

1. Lock yourself in a safe-house, don't leave and hope for the best. (Do go up on any ladders or fall in the bathroom , as more people are killed that way then by people using firearms, legally or illegally.

2. Have total anarchy. Anything goes. Kill or be killed. Do whatever you want for as long as you can get away with it.

3. Live in the US. Look at the stats. 30,000 killed by firearms, all-in? That's 1.3% of ALL DEATHS. Take out suicides and it drops by a third. Stay out of a gang and don't deal drugs, drops even more. It's not that people can kill with guns with total impunity (I know - some get away with it). You get caught, there's a system in place and you get dealt your punishment. That's how it is.

The US has a gun culture. It also has a lot of nuts that fall through the cracks. And it has a lot of evil people. Shit happens. Sucks when it happens to a child, a complete innocent or someone you know. Or you. But that's life.

Try to change the system - it can be done - look at marijuana. Or move to a "safer" place. Or get on with your life and enjoy everyday.

Peace and Love, brothers and sisters.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by PaulBaker

I love how you guys justify this stuff.

I'm not, and I never will justify a needless shooting, or death. I'm just sick and tired of people taking one or two incidents and using them to categorize everyone who owns a gun or isn't anti gun. If a person kills someone with a car, the actual vehicle is marginalized, and it was the person acting out of anger or stupidity. The car is never blamed.

If a guy comes home drunk, sees his girlfriend kissing another man in their driveway, gets pissed and runs over the guy, killing him. It's the driver's fault. He was angry, drunk, not thinking sanely. No one EVER blames the car, when that's what actually killed him. If the same drunk person pulls out a gun and shoots the guy, it's the gun's fault. Same situation, different weapon, different blame. I just can't follow that logic.

Out of curiosity how do you justify a kid shooting an 8 year girl over a puppy?

edition.cnn.com/2015/10/08/us/girl-killed-puppy-in-tennessee/

I don't. Once again, you have to take a look at the kid and understand the underlying issues. I have two kids and they've never thought about pulling a gun, much less use one. And there are plenty of them around. Then again, I would like to think I've raised my children properly and they are psychologically sound. A person has to pull out the gun and a person has to pull the trigger. The question is why did they do it?

America, the only 'civilized' country that puts a misguided notion of freedom before the safety of their own children.

That's an incorrect statement. The only reason a majority of gun owners have guns is to protect their families. I've taught both my children gun safety at a very young age, and they respect guns. They're not curious and don't go snooping around because it's forbidden. Psychology 101 states if you tell a child they can't do something, they do it. Once again, this all leads back to the individual and individual circumstances. Why was the kid so angry or desperate for the puppy they were willing to kill for it? The gun didn't talk them into it. The gun didn't aim itself, remove the safety, and certainly didn't pull the trigger. So we're not sacrificing freedom for safety. We're keeping our kids safe with the freedom we're given, and we're fighting to keep that freedom intact so we can continue to keep them safe.

Americans think Aussies are stupid for having a law that requires guns to be locked up with ammo stored separately.
Aussies think Americans are stupid for allowing a situation where kids shoot kids.

Every country is different, and I could care less what Aussies do. I'm never moving to Australia and I'm certainly never raising kids there. People like to compare England with the U.S. as well, but in England, the police don't carry guns. Try that in the U.S. and see how it works out. Just like homicides by gun, each case needs to be looked at individually. There's no cookie cutter solution to any of it.

One thing I can say is that the pharmaceutical industry is about 100 times larger than the gun industry, and they kill more people, kids included, per year than anything else. 106,000 in 2013 to be exact. But since they pump so much money into the political machine through lobbyist, they're untouchable. And since the media is controlled by politicians, you'll never hear them whisper a negative word against big-pharma. And these companies are the ones making billions off SSRI and benzos that are turning people into emotionless zombies. If you look right below the surface, the real evil is the amount of medication we're pumping into kids these days. That's where my investigation would start, not at gun manufacturers.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Nitzer Ebb

There are white people living in Detroit?

At least one guy...

[Socks]

Originally Posted by Rob

I'm not, and I never will justify a needless shooting, or death. I'm just sick and tired of people taking one or two incidents and using them to categorize everyone who owns a gun or isn't anti gun. If a person kills someone with a car, the actual vehicle is marginalized, and it was the person acting out of anger or stupidity. The car is never blamed.

Young kids don't pickup cars and accidentally kill people though.

I don't mind guns, but I think if you leave your gun out and your kid gets it and kills someone, that you should be held accountable for the murder too.

And while you may teach your kids correctly, how can you expect everyone else to? I mean if someone hurt your children with a gun, it wouldn't matter whose fault it was, or how they got the gun, or bad parenting, or none of that... You just want your kid back.

[PaperstreetWinston]

Originally Posted by sandman!

yes she is an idiot

couldnt agree more

[PornSEO]

That's what idiots do when there is lots of unused ammunition lying around.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

The average person with a concealed carry permit doesnt do this. She is well below average.

We need better training for firearm owners. It needs to be mandatory.

It's very simple and involves a lot of common sense. My kid is going to get her driver's license. She needs to have thirty hours of classroom instruction, and then six hours of driving instruction behind the wheel. Then she has to take a written and driving test. Even then, after she gets her driver's license, there are huge restrictions on her driving until she is 18. I think that driving is one of the most important things we do on a daily basis, and it can in fact be deadly.

Yet all you need for a firearm is a background check.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by Socks

Young kids don't pickup cars and accidentally kill people though.

I would bet that kids and cars kill more people than kids and guns.

And you are gonna say it doesn't even happen?

[Itchy]

Originally Posted by Socks

Young kids don't pickup cars and accidentally kill people though.

I don't mind guns, but I think if you leave your gun out and your kid gets it and kills someone, that you should be held accountable for the murder too.

And while you may teach your kids correctly, how can you expect everyone else to? I mean if someone hurt your children with a gun, it wouldn't matter whose fault it was, or how they got the gun, or bad parenting, or none of that... You just want your kid back.

[L-Pink]

300 million people and almost that many guns, everyday 1 or 2 idiots do something really stupid with a gun. Sounds low actually.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Well how do you expect people to think when a cop can shoot a guy to death for stealing cigars?

Monkey see, monkey do.

Yea, that's exactly how it went down.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by candyflip

I would bet that kids and cars kill more people than kids and guns.

And you are gonna say it doesn't even happen?

So because heart disease kills more people than cancer we should just ignore finding a cure for cancer? WTF kind of logic is that?

[Joe Obenberger]

It's true that this woman was on shaky grounds if she was aiming at the perpetrator making an escape. Was she?

Is it barely possible, within the range of reason, that she was aiming at the tires, hoping to shoot them out, and simply prevent an escape of these criminals? Newspaper accounts report this tactic by cops with some frequency, and I've not heard many voices oppose it. In fact, no bystanders were shot in Detroit, and so is it unreasonable to suppose that she had a safe, clear shot at the tires?

The reason why we have courts of law - and defense lawyers - is that lynch mobs are not reliable tools to discover the facts and compare them to the law.

One of the hats that I wear is a certification by the Illinois State Police as a concealed carry instructor. Many states require legal instruction as part of a mandatory curriculum to get a concealed carry license. That mandatory curriculum includes substantial instruction about defense of self, others, home, other real property, and property as well as cautions against shooting a retreating criminal under most circumstances. It is easy to jump to a conclusion that this lady didn't pay attention to that instruction (Michigan does require such instruction) and easy to prejudge her to have committed a crime by shooting at non-violent escaping criminals. But it seems just as possible on these facts that she was shooting at tires to stop an escape vehicle. That's may be a horse of a different color, and it may turn out that so long as she didn't endanger innocent lives, her attempt to do that was legally justified. Keep in mind that the value of the property stolen was probably enough to make this a felony, that the crime was a conspiracy with an escape crew, and it is easy to see that this was not merely "shoplifting" but a serious crime, punishable by prison. In Illinois, she would have been legally justified in using reasonable, nonlethal force to prevent an escape. Shooting out tires under these facts may amount to just that - reasonable nonlethal force used to prevent escape. (I recognize that it's possible that shooting at a vehicle, at least in some jurisdictions, may amount to a force applied against persons, and not just the vehicle they occupy. That's an issue of law that deserves research and may become critical in this case when it gets to court.)

Anyway, this is why we have courts to sort it out. It would be wrong to judge this lady based on the news accounts presented here. Especially wrong to now assume that she was legally wrong in her conduct and use that conclusion as some kind of proof that no citizen should be armed. If she was wrong, not justified in the use of force, so be it. It is hardly an argument to ban smoking that some smokers cause fires.

[rayadp05]

Agreed with ...100%

Originally Posted by sandman!

yes she is an idiot

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Well how do you expect people to think when a cop can shoot a guy to death for stealing cigars?

Monkey see, monkey do.

When did a cop shoot a guy for stealing cigars?

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Socks

Young kids don't pickup cars and accidentally kill people though.

.

Good point. And you also can't drive to work in an AR15.

The gun nuts have a brain defect that doesn't allow them to recognize a false equivalency.

When it comes to firing guns I've probably done just as much as anyone on this message board, so why do I have common sense about the issue? We don't need to take away people's guns, or even make mag sizes smaller. It just needs to be an incredible pain in the ass to get a gun -- at least for the first one you purchase. And there just can't be any more gun show sales. It's so fucking irresponsible.

[kane]

It is situations like this that make me hesitant when I see people saying that everyone should walk around armed. Everyday we see crazy shit like people getting in a brawl over cheeseburgers or people fighting in walmart over one of those scooters. These people are also going to be armed and clearly some of them are not afraid to fire off some rounds.

The last thing I want is one crazy person starting to shoot and 20 other people returning fire and me caught in the middle of it all.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

300 million people and almost that many guns, everyday 1 or 2 idiots do something really stupid with a gun. Sounds low actually.

Until it's someone you know..

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We need better training for firearm owners. It needs to be mandatory.

I've had concealed carry permits in three different states at different times in my life. All three required classroom and range instruction, and a test to demonstrate that you understood the training and could safely handle your firearm.

And like I said earlier, she does not represent the average concealed carry permit holder. You would not even know that the average permit holder is even carrying a firearm. For instance, while walking past you at Internext at the Hard Rock 3 years ago.

[VikingMan]

Don't worry as this "poor woman" will benefit from the female gender privilege that exists in the court system.

[Sloane]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

I've had concealed carry permits in three different states at different times in my life. All three required classroom and range instruction, and a test to demonstrate that you understood the training and could safely handle your firearm.

And like I said earlier, she does not represent the average concealed carry permit holder. You would not even know that the average permit holder is even carrying a firearm. For instance, while walking past you at Internext at the Hard Rock 3 years ago.

There is a huge difference between firing a gun on a range, and being in the middle of a life or death situation. Just ask any experienced Cop or Soldier. We are poorly evolved mammals, our Adrenal glands over power our frontal lobes, thus rendering us useless in making 'logical' decisions in the heat of the moment. Try taking a math exam while your Adrenaline is pumping at full thrust. You 'cannot' concentrate. Now throw a gun into the hands of an average Joe, who has just witnessed the horror of a massacre. Blood, guts, chaos and potentially watching his fellow classmates have their heads popped like grapes. Joe average is more likely to shit his own pants and accidentally shoot himself in the foot rather than be the hero every gun nut here thinks he would be. 15,000 gun related deaths every year, time to change the system. It's clearly not working.

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Sloane

There is a huge difference between firing a gun on a range, and being in the middle of a life or death situation. Just ask any experienced Cop or Soldier. We are poorly evolved mammals, our Adrenal glands over power our frontal lobes, thus rendering us useless in making 'logical' decisions in the heat of the moment. Try taking a math exam while your Adrenaline is pumping at full thrust. You 'cannot' concentrate. Now throw a gun into the hands of an average Joe, who has just witnessed the horror of a massacre. Blood, guts, chaos and potentially watching his fellow classmates have their heads popped like grapes. Joe average is more likely to shit his own pants and accidentally shoot himself in the foot rather than be the hero every gun nut here thinks he would be. 15,000 gun related deaths every year, time to change the system. It's clearly not working.

1. I know quite a bit about being an experienced soldier.

2. What does this have to do with a shoplifter? Nobody was massacred. She wasnt being threatened. Are you high?

[aka123]

She didn't succeed. It is quite obvious that you guys need concealed bazookas.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

300 million people and almost that many guns, everyday 1 or 2 idiots do something really stupid with a gun. Sounds low actually.

You know that the number of incidents reported by media is different than the actual number? Excluding officers, it makes 130 gun incidents per day. It is low number of course.. for wild west.

There is about one mass shooting per day.

Gun Violence Archive

[Sloane]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

1. I know quite a bit about being an experienced soldier.

2. What does this have to do with a shoplifter? Nobody was massacred. She wasnt being threatened. Are you high?

Okay, you appear to be a little slow. So, I shall explain to you what happened here. You are indeed correct, the thread did begin with a woman firing a concealed weapon at a shoplifter. The thread then transitioned to the topic of concealed weapon permits. (thanks to yourself) Do you recall typing this?

I've had concealed carry permits in three different states at different times in my life. All three required classroom and range instruction, and a test to demonstrate that you understood the training and could safely handle your firearm.

And like I said earlier, she does not represent the average concealed carry permit holder.

I then, proceeded to explain that there is a 'huge' discrepancy between classroom/range practice and a real life situation such as, a massacre. (Yes the thread transitioned slightly yet again, but still on the theme of guns). Anyway, I do hope I explained myself clearly this time, and you were able to follow along.. or, along you were able to follow.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer

I've had concealed carry permits in three different states at different times in my life. All three required classroom and range instruction, and a test to demonstrate that you understood the training and could safely handle your firearm.

It's pretty obvious this woman didn't have any training. You cannot shoot people for shoplifting. Even if she was able to detain the shoplifter, the crime she committed by shooting her firearm off in the city limits was much larger than shoplifting.

I am all for the 2nd amendment. If you want to own and carry a firearm, that's super. But the problem is everyone thinks what they see on TV is real and that it's super easy when it isn't. Just like the person in Texas the other day who tried to prevent a car jacking but instead shot the victim in the head. If you don't have the training you really can't step into a situation like that.

[Colmike9]

Why would anyone care about something stolen from a Home Depot? Around here we don't even yell at shoplifters, let insurance deal with it or write it off during inventory..
Or if they stole something you want, try to buy it from them half off in the parking lot, everyone wins..

[Barry-xlovecam]

If you shoot someone that is not armed and threatening you with deadly force outside of the threshold ( not having forced his way) of/into your ''house''; you are guilty of felonious assault with a firearm, attempted murder ( if you shoot him) and/or manslaughter if you kill him.

If someone breaks into your garage and steals or tries to steal your automobile and you shoot him dead; the case being he was a thief and not threatening you with a deadly weapon -- you will be charged with manslaughter.

You cannot (it is unlawful to) open fire on or kill someone committing a property crime when your life is not in danger if you are an armed civilian (is most states in the USA).

[Colmike9]

Plus there's nothing in a Home Depot worth killing someone for stealing..

Some countries they would chop off your hand for shoplifting, though, back when people would literally lift up a corner of a tent shop to steal grapes or something..

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Well how do you expect people to think when a cop can shoot a guy to death for stealing cigars?

Yes, that was the reason.
Tool.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Nitzer Ebb

There are white people living in Detroit?

They did not flee out that far.

[Deej]

She deserves jail time and a felony. Retarded Kunt!

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Colmike7

Why would anyone care about something stolen from a Home Depot?

I don't want to generalize, but I'd say the large majority of firearm carriers have a secret fantasy of being a hero...or vigilante. Look at the guy who killed teenagers who were playing loud music. He would have never initiated that situation without knowing he could fall back to his gun if things got hairy. Actually, he was probably hoping for it to get hairy so he could finally fulfill his fantasy of shooting some scary black people.

People who need to carry a weapon in a largely unarmed society need therapy more than a gun, because basically they're paranoid and scared of the world.

[Mr Pheer]

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's pretty obvious this woman didn't have any training. You cannot shoot people for shoplifting. Even if she was able to detain the shoplifter, the crime she committed by shooting her firearm off in the city limits was much larger than shoplifting.

I am all for the 2nd amendment. If you want to own and carry a firearm, that's super. But the problem is everyone thinks what they see on TV is real and that it's super easy when it isn't. Just like the person in Texas the other day who tried to prevent a car jacking but instead shot the victim in the head. If you don't have the training you really can't step into a situation like that.

Just because she disregarded her training, does not mean she wasnt trained. What she did was stupid. You can teach people to be less ignorant. But unfortunately you cant always train the stupid out of people.