An interesting way to stop chargebacks - GoFuckYourself.com

DVTimes · 11-22-2015, 01:18 PM

I wonder if payment firms should add there own version.

Stop Friendly Fraud, Chargeback Protection for e-commerce websites- Vantage Point

https://youtu.be/-71TFrZgfzs

CurrentlySober · 11-22-2015, 01:28 PM

Yeah, but lets say I make an order on my laptop and decide to charge back. All they know is that it came from within 20 miles of my actual location, and if they tried to say 'That proves it' I'd just say - Sorry but I use an iMac, not a windows PC...

Check your Device Fingerprint Data Free

DVTimes · 11-22-2015, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Yeah, but lets say I make an order on my laptop and decide to charge back. All they know is that it came from within 20 miles of my actual location, and if they tried to say 'That proves it' I'd just say - Sorry but I use an iMac, not a windows PC...

Check your Device Fingerprint Data Free

You say that, but how many people would risk it?

I bet many would fear that they 'could' check and you could end up being charged with fraud.

SpicyM · 11-22-2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I wonder if payment firms should add there own version.

Stop Friendly Fraud, Chargeback Protection for e-commerce websites- Vantage Point

https://youtu.be/-71TFrZgfzs

And how do they get the fingerprints if the customer is on a PC?

CurrentlySober · 11-22-2015, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVTimes

You say that, but how many people would risk it?

I bet many would fear that they 'could' check and you could end up being charged with fraud.

People that are going out of their way to defraud companies wouldn't be at all afraid.

I personally see it as a false security measure for online stores. they are providing a sense of security for the merchants, which really wouldn't stand up if it was called upon.

adultmobile · 11-22-2015, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

People that are going out of their way to defraud companies wouldn't be at all afraid.

I personally see it as a false security measure for online stores. they are providing a sense of security for the merchants, which really wouldn't stand up if it was called upon.

Most importantly: credit card companies/banks really are looking those recorded video and especially sharing that to the user who claims it was not him?
This video is no evidence at all, it only could be useful if the video is shown to the users who claims it was not them, which in a % of cases could let them change idea and retire the chargeback (a small % of cases, better than nothing).

In this promo video there are 2 points I don't think are real:

1) ALL the credit card companies will get and share the video to the cardholder. This should be implemented in the customer care of many banks, cards, countries etc. it could be hardly done if this was mandated by VISA itself, imagine what if by other company. I would be surprised if more than 10% of sales are supported.

2) Let some cardholder be shown the video, not all of them would retire the chargeback claim, in fact, I would be surprised if more than 30% of them would.

so 30% of 10%, I am stating I think this could save 3% of friendly frauds costs.

rowan · 11-22-2015, 08:39 PM

I'm wondering exactly how this video is "recorded". Does the plugin phone home to tell vantagepoint that user has loaded URL X, and their mouse pointer is now at co-ordinates 456,1000, and vantagepoint reproduces the page and mouse activity to record? Or is it really capturing the screen of the user?

Can the date this video was produced be independently verified? How can it be proven that the video was recorded at the time of the order, and not simply synthesized at a later date?

BTW, their geoip is way off. Facebook usually thinks I'm in a suburb about 15km away, which is pretty good; vantagepoint is off by about 1200km. One thousand two hundred kilometres. I think they've basically just used the geographical centre of Australia, which is probably more useless than returning "I don't know"

I use a slightly falsified user-agent so it thinks I'm using Firefox on W7 (I'm on W8.1 with a browser forked from FF). So it looks like the magical fingerprint is based solely on the IP address and user-agent.

Looks like an interesting concept, but technically it seems to have flaws, and the thought of "recording" your customers sounds a bit creepy.

pornguy · 11-23-2015, 06:21 AM

In that video the first section says that you can not prove " HE " the card owner made it. BUt then it says with this video and finger print it shows he does. Does it access his PC camera and take a video of him tracking his actions? If not you have not proven HE has done anything. Just that it was done from HIS pc or device.

Most CC's used to have something in the TOS that said anyone in the house that used the card to make a purchase and the owner of the card was responsible for the transaction. but that does not seem to hold true any more.

247mg · 11-23-2015, 07:25 AM

What exactly in the video recording... Any sample

MaxPSC · 11-23-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

People that are going out of their way to defraud companies wouldn't be at all afraid.

Totally agree with that, if they make a chargeback in the first place they are ready to lie all the way.

2MuchMark · 11-23-2015, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Yeah, but lets say I make an order on my laptop and decide to charge back. All they know is that it came from within 20 miles of my actual location, and if they tried to say 'That proves it' I'd just say - Sorry but I use an iMac, not a windows PC...

Maybe, but you're forgetting that most friendly frauders are idiots, especially those that try to scam an adult site.

Catching friendly fraud is fun. When we do it, we contact the customer and pretend to be on his side to first gain as much information as possible. We attach everything we know about the customer including whatever IP address and meta data we can, attach it to the conversation he had with the model(s) he's trying to scam, along with a "so sorry someone else used your credit card" lingo.

Then in the end we let him know we are reporting the issue to the police to "help protect him from any further losses", and are turning over all of the data we have to help in the investigation. "The police may bring all of this to you your house in the next week or so to review everything", etc. At this point he usually freaks out, then asks to cancel the chargeback.

Sometimes though, this can backfire. A woman trying to do a friendly-fraud chargeback turned out to be a sad case. It turned out that her daughter was using the card. Mom was completely embarrassed and ashamed that her daughter was gay, and went on a nasty rant about it. We decided in the end that the daughter didn't need any more grief she was already getting from crazy old Mom, so we just let it go.

Ketchup · 11-23-2015, 05:59 PM

hello I notice many escorts using mobile credit card processing with cell how do they stop a customer from charging back ? thanks

plaster · 11-23-2015, 06:08 PM

That is so stupid... one time sales like they describe just use Mastercard and Visa 3d secure process which is a feature initiated by the card association themselves to verify the purchase was made by the cardholder. It prevents (or reverses) all chargebacks in sales like tangible items when customer claims friendly fraud.

SpicyM · 11-23-2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 247mg

What exactly in the video recording... Any sample

They probably mean filming the customer using his/her webcam. Not sure what they do if he has no webcam or he just doesnt want to get filmed.

2MuchMark · 11-23-2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

They probably mean filming the customer using his/her webcam. Not sure what they do if he has no webcam or he just doesnt want to get filmed.

No I don't think so.

What I think they do is grab all the meta data, and then make a movie out of it. I mean actually going into Windows Movie Maker or some other editor, pasting the data as text, and then adding notes as they go. This means it easy for anyone to load and follow.

I think.

NatalieK · 11-24-2015, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketchup

hello I notice many escorts using mobile credit card processing with cell how do they stop a customer from charging back ? thanks

Most clients to escorting are honest & are happy to pay for the service they are given. Also, I wouldn't have thought a client would want any further problems later in life life bumping into the escort, demanding their money in front of partners.

With regards to our websites, we've only had 2 or 3 chargebacks over the past 8 or so years.

Give quality service & have the right traffic & your customers are happy to pay for the good they receive

SpicyM · 11-24-2015, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

No I don't think so.

What I think they do is grab all the meta data, and then make a movie out of it. I mean actually going into Windows Movie Maker or some other editor, pasting the data as text, and then adding notes as they go. This means it easy for anyone to load and follow.

I think.

This wouldn't prove who sat at the computer and did the purchase. Anyone can use a pc and someone else's credit card for this.

rowan · 11-28-2015, 11:37 AM

I read about Mastercard developing an app that uses facial recognition to authenticate transactions. Wouldn't be surprised if they store the image for future dispute resolution purposes. It's a pretty strong proof that you authorised the purchase (unless you have an identical twin, or parents with dominant genes

) but it just seems really creepy to be letting an app phone home your face. Then again, gen-Y don't seem to care about things like that.

One way the app ensures it's a live person and not a photo or loop is by asking you to smile at a certain point. The Mastercard equivalent of asking a cute girl on an anonymous webcam chat site to wave to prove you're not being shown a recording.

11-22-2015, 01:18 PM	#1
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	An interesting way to stop chargebacks I wonder if payment firms should add there own version. Stop Friendly Fraud, Chargeback Protection for e-commerce websites- Vantage Point https://youtu.be/-71TFrZgfzs __________________ The Affiliate Program

11-22-2015, 01:28 PM	#2
CurrentlySober Too lazy to wipe my ass Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A Public Bathroom Posts: 38,534	Yeah, but lets say I make an order on my laptop and decide to charge back. All they know is that it came from within 20 miles of my actual location, and if they tried to say 'That proves it' I'd just say - Sorry but I use an iMac, not a windows PC... Check your Device Fingerprint Data Free __________________ My AI Handywork... My Dream Gal... XXX 👁️ 👍️ 💩

11-23-2015, 06:21 AM	#8
pornguy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Homeless Posts: 62,911	In that video the first section says that you can not prove " HE " the card owner made it. BUt then it says with this video and finger print it shows he does. Does it access his PC camera and take a video of him tracking his actions? If not you have not proven HE has done anything. Just that it was done from HIS pc or device. Most CC's used to have something in the TOS that said anyone in the house that used the card to make a purchase and the owner of the card was responsible for the transaction. but that does not seem to hold true any more. __________________ PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online! TChicks.com \| Angeles Cid \| Mariana Cordoba \| MAILERS WELCOME!

11-23-2015, 07:25 AM	#9
247mg Yellowplum / 247mg Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Nicosia, CY Posts: 2,161	What exactly in the video recording... Any sample __________________ 247mg.com - Indian Affiliate Program - Over 50+ Sites To Promote - Monetize Your INDIAN Traffic Today!

11-22-2015, 08:39 PM	#7
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I'm wondering exactly how this video is "recorded". Does the plugin phone home to tell vantagepoint that user has loaded URL X, and their mouse pointer is now at co-ordinates 456,1000, and vantagepoint reproduces the page and mouse activity to record? Or is it really capturing the screen of the user? Can the date this video was produced be independently verified? How can it be proven that the video was recorded at the time of the order, and not simply synthesized at a later date? BTW, their geoip is way off. Facebook usually thinks I'm in a suburb about 15km away, which is pretty good; vantagepoint is off by about 1200km. One thousand two hundred kilometres. I think they've basically just used the geographical centre of Australia, which is probably more useless than returning "I don't know" I use a slightly falsified user-agent so it thinks I'm using Firefox on W7 (I'm on W8.1 with a browser forked from FF). So it looks like the magical fingerprint is based solely on the IP address and user-agent. Looks like an interesting concept, but technically it seems to have flaws, and the thought of "recording" your customers sounds a bit creepy.

11-23-2015, 05:59 PM	#12
Ketchup Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 563	hello I notice many escorts using mobile credit card processing with cell how do they stop a customer from charging back ? thanks

11-23-2015, 06:08 PM	#13
plaster So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 2,295	That is so stupid... one time sales like they describe just use Mastercard and Visa 3d secure process which is a feature initiated by the card association themselves to verify the purchase was made by the cardholder. It prevents (or reverses) all chargebacks in sales like tangible items when customer claims friendly fraud.

11-28-2015, 11:37 AM	#18
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	I read about Mastercard developing an app that uses facial recognition to authenticate transactions. Wouldn't be surprised if they store the image for future dispute resolution purposes. It's a pretty strong proof that you authorised the purchase (unless you have an identical twin, or parents with dominant genes ) but it just seems really creepy to be letting an app phone home your face. Then again, gen-Y don't seem to care about things like that. One way the app ensures it's a live person and not a photo or loop is by asking you to smile at a certain point. The Mastercard equivalent of asking a cute girl on an anonymous webcam chat site to wave to prove you're not being shown a recording.