Government Takeover

[Paul Markham]

Just watched a documentary on how Obama fought to get Obamacare through. One of the favourite phrases by the Republicans was Government Takeover. This assumes the private sector is better at sage guarding a nation's health than the Government. Which with 45,000 people dying every year, because they don't Health Insurance is stupid.

The argument from the people was also uneducated. Phrases like Don't allow Government into Medicare, or I don't want to be giving money to those who have never worked.

Trump will only make matters worse. Because the one essential to bring down costs and drive up Healthcare is a Government Takeover. They might be inefficient, but they won't be as profit minded and dedicated to ripping people off.

A Government Non-Profit Insurance scheme. Even ready to fly people to India or other places to get private healthcare in those countries. Or build new State hospitals and staff them with doctors from overseas who cost less.

Yes, taxes will rise, but not as much as Health Insurance costs and can be dropped. All that's needed is to explain to Americans with Private Health Insurance why they pay so much.

[L-Pink]

Watching a documentary on healthcare from a country you don't live in. You need to get out more Paul.

[Google Expert]

Why do you give a shit about what's going on in the USA?

Don't have anything to worry about in Yurope?

Throw some magic links up.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

All that's needed is to explain to Americans with Private Health Insurance why they pay so much.

Dammit why didn't we think of that! It's that easy!

The catchphrase of the campaign could be "easy as magic join links!"

Or "stay healthy, check your bathroom ratio!"

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Watching a documentary on healthcare from a country you don't live in. You need to get out more Paul.

I have more time on my hands than most here. Been out twice, dog walking and shopping.

[woj]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I have more time on my hands than most here. Been out twice, dog walking and shopping.

you must admit though, there are better activities than analyzing issues in another country that in no way effect you?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Sly

Dammit why didn't we think of that! It's that easy!

Once Americans stop voting for people like the Tea Party, politicians in the pockets of lobbyists or big business. Things might change.

It was strange watching people protesting for the right to get ripped off.

[Rob]

The U.S. government is doing a bang up job with the postal service. The problem with giving the government control over anything is it creates a landscape of zero accountability, fraud, waste, and employees that sit around scratching their balls rather than doing their jobs. Government employees are so protected from termination, it's ridiculous what they get away with. Fuck the government.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by woj

you must admit though, there are better activities than analyzing issues in another country that in no way effect you?

My Mother was ripped off by the system, Father killed and Brother flew to the UK to get cancer treatment and to Czech for Dental work. Because it's cheaper.

Is that enough effect?

[woj]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My Mother was ripped off by the system, Father killed and Brother flew to the UK to get cancer treatment and to Czech for Dental work. Because it's cheaper.

Is that enough effect?

You and your family used to live in the US? If so, fair enough, I figured you had zero connection to the US...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

My Mother was ripped off by the system, Father killed and Brother flew to the UK to get cancer treatment and to Czech for Dental work. Because it's cheaper.

Is that enough effect?

I'm in El Paso Texas right now and could walk across the border for real real cheap medical/dental .......... Think I'll stick to getting "ripped off" with the best health care there is instead.

[Barry-xlovecam]

OECD Better Life Index

Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In the Czech Republic, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 18 404 a year, less than the OECD average of USD 25 908 a year. But there is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest – the top 20% of the population earn nearly four times as much as the bottom 20%.

OECD Better Life Index

Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In the United States, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 41 355 a year, more than the OECD average of USD 25 908 a year, and the highest figure in the OECD. But there is a considerable gap between the richest and poorest – the top 20% of the population earn approximately eight times as much as the bottom 20%.

The average salary in healthcare is over $66K a year.

https://www.recruiter.com/salaries/a...ogists-salary/

Where else but in the USA can anesthesiologists make over 200K a year?

A registered Nurse's Salary

$62,010
Factors Affecting Registered Nurse's Salary
Industry Annual Mean Wage Hourly Mean Wage
Nursing Care Facilities $62,010 $29.81
Home Health Care Services $66,910 $32.17
Offices of Physicians $62,850 $30.22
General Medical and Surgical Hospitals $70,590 $33.94

Cost of living is relative to the place you live.

Americans like to complain a lot -- I always get that shit when I go to Europe ... That said, there is a lot more income disparity in the USA.

People come from all over the world to use our medical facilities that are so overpriced too -- what is up with that? This is not to say that there are not US medical tourists in India using better class private hospitals ( getting kidney surgery done fast ;0) ). I have heard things said about good Mexican dentists that work for reasonable prices. I just had my teeth cleaned (only) yesterday $130.00.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rob

The U.S. government is doing a bang up job with the postal service. The problem with giving the government control over anything is it creates a landscape of zero accountability, fraud, waste, and employees that sit around scratching their balls rather than doing their jobs. Government employees are so protected from termination, it's ridiculous what they get away with. Fuck the government.

So give it all to the private sector?

How does that change things? Besides costs more.

Look at the prison service in private hands, where they have a contract to keep them 95% full. What is the Average Cost to House Inmates in Prison.



Healthcare
United States $8713 for 95%
Switzerland $6466 for 100%
Norway $6177 for 100%
Netherlands $5217 for 100%
Germany $5002 for 100%
Sweden #$4904 for 100%

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by woj

You and your family used to live in the US? If so, fair enough, I figured you had zero connection to the US...

They still do. Brother and his 4 children.

[woj]

I don't know about you guys, but I'll take $15k higher disposable income than OECD avg over whatever Paul is proposing...

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Just watched a documentary on how Obama fought to get Obamacare through. One of the favourite phrases by the Republicans was Government Takeover. This assumes the private sector is better at sage guarding a nation's health than the Government. Which with 45,000 people dying every year, because they don't Health Insurance is stupid.

The argument from the people was also uneducated. Phrases like Don't allow Government into Medicare, or I don't want to be giving money to those who have never worked.

Trump will only make matters worse. Because the one essential to bring down costs and drive up Healthcare is a Government Takeover. They might be inefficient, but they won't be as profit minded and dedicated to ripping people off.

A Government Non-Profit Insurance scheme. Even ready to fly people to India or other places to get private healthcare in those countries. Or build new State hospitals and staff them with doctors from overseas who cost less.

Yes, taxes will rise, but not as much as Health Insurance costs and can be dropped. All that's needed is to explain to Americans with Private Health Insurance why they pay so much.

Don't forget it was Republicans who claimed there were gonna be death panels, FEMA camps and every other wild conspiracy under the sun. They aren't the smartest tools in the shed.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The average salary in healthcare is over $66K a year.

https://www.recruiter.com/salaries/a...ogists-salary/

Where else but in the USA can anesthesiologists make over 200K a year?

Cost of living is relative to the place you live.

Americans like to complain a lot -- I always get that shit when I go to Europe ... That said, there is a lot more income disparity in the USA.

People come from all over the world to use our medical facilities that are so overpriced too -- what is up with that? This in not to say that there are US medical tourists in India using better class private hospitals ( getting kidney surgery done fast ;0) ). I have heard things said about good Mexican dentists that work for reasonable prices. I just had my teeth cleaned (only) yesterday $130.00.

I pay nothing to get my teeth cleaned. Finished paying into the system 6 years ago when I retired.

A lot of the problem is very high wages. Add that to the need for profits and it will always cost more to have a private healthcare system.

They way some defend it is strange, why not a private Army, police force, Ambulance, Fire Service, etc? Are they less important than health?

[L-Pink]

And what would the morning be without a Crockett republican rant to read as I eat breakfast.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I think it would take a 20% tax on the gross median income per taxpayer to pay for each person on that tax return -- taxpayer and dependents --at today's projected rate to reach $10,000 this year. That is excessive and not sustainable. Not that Switzerland and Norway have higher healthcare costs than the USA -- comparable facilities and standards. Also high median income nations

Country name 	  2011   2012    2013
	
France 	4,934 	4,644 	4,864 	
	
Germany 	4,992 	4,717 	5,006 	
	
Belgium 	4,951 	4,742 	5,093 	
	
Austria 	5,401 	5,206 	5,427 	
	
Sweden 	5,403 	5,293 	5,680 	
	
Canada 	5,695 	5,763 	5,718 	
	
Australia 	6,209 	6,393 	6,110 	
	
Netherlands 	6,048 	5,836 	6,145 	
	
Denmark 	6,522 	6,204 	6,270 	
	
Monaco 	6,853 	6,521 	6,993 	
	
Luxembourg 	8,391 	7,551 	7,981 	
	
United States 	8,553 	8,845 	9,146 	
	
Switzerland 	9,254 	9,071 	9,276 	
	
Norway 	9,261 	9,312 	9,715

Source: Health expenditure per capita (current US$) | Data | Table

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Sounds simple, right?

If I am doing the math correct, if you take $250 million and divide it by thirty-five thousand cities.... That comes out to $7k per city. Which would be an extra police officer for two or three weeks. Per city.

That doesn't include unincorporated areas, federal law enforcement, or prison guards.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The USA created the healthcare service salary gravy-train and the healthcare insurance tax subsidy.

By having employer paid tax-deductible premiums the costs were subsidized by the tax deduction as an expense ( a 35% tax subsidy today).

If there was no corporate tax and no expense subsidy the US healthcare cost would drop fast. There could be a higher rate for dividend and corporate bond income to replace the corporate tax rate repeal. Ultimately, the profits of a corporation are the property of the shareholders and would have to be disbursed by law with allowances for retained income kept in place.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

[A] lot of the problem is very high wages. ...

A lot of us like our high wages ...

Everyone in the USA doesn't have to work at Walmart or McDonalds

That nurse had to go to nursing school and and pay a lot for a 4 or 5 year degree. That Anaesthesiologist had to pay for medical school, work an internship, go to school again for his speciality degree in anaesthesiology, then work as a resident for several years to be board certified as an Doctor of Anaesthesiology. 15 years of advanced education. How many years of advanced education did you pay for Paul?

If advanced education to qualified students in the medical and other healthcare fields was free and taxpayer supported, at reasonable costs -- not to create the ''free'' education gravy-train -- that would reduce the cost of healthcare. Government administered Medicare works well but private-payer health insurance subsidizes its costs as well as the Medicaid health benefits for the impoverished.

You cannot solve a complex problem that costs $3 trillion a year with sound byte thinking.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I'm in El Paso Texas right now and could walk across the border for real real cheap medical/dental .......... Think I'll stick to getting "ripped off" with the best health care there is instead.

annnd yet you rank with cuba

[wehateporn]

Obamacare was a Big Pharma takeover, nothing like the NHS

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It was strange watching people protesting for the right to get ripped off.

american as apple pie, alas.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Just watched a documentary on how Obama fought to get Obamacare through. One of the favourite phrases by the Republicans was Government Takeover. This assumes the private sector is better at sage guarding a nation's health than the Government. Which with 45,000 people dying every year, because they don't Health Insurance is stupid.

The argument from the people was also uneducated. Phrases like Don't allow Government into Medicare, or I don't want to be giving money to those who have never worked.

Trump will only make matters worse. Because the one essential to bring down costs and drive up Healthcare is a Government Takeover. They might be inefficient, but they won't be as profit minded and dedicated to ripping people off.

A Government Non-Profit Insurance scheme. Even ready to fly people to India or other places to get private healthcare in those countries. Or build new State hospitals and staff them with doctors from overseas who cost less.

Yes, taxes will rise, but not as much as Health Insurance costs and can be dropped. All that's needed is to explain to Americans with Private Health Insurance why they pay so much.

the greatest idiotic idea Republicans have is the "healthcare Savings account". That idea wouldn't be so funny if:

1. People actually had money to save

2. Healthcare wasn't so expensive.

They only bring ideas like this to the table because they figure, if you have money to save in case you break your leg -- great. If not, then tough luck.